EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

Yes, but you need to apply common sense. Where are the resources (ie: high wattage power connections).... If you say "the big commercial store".... You get a star. Now guess where you are going to put the charger so the extreme expense of installing one is slightly reduced and you don't have to dig up half your carpark. Its like all common sense is removed as soon as you talk EVs. Which is quite sad.

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That's a fair point, but I think it would very much depend on every site that line of thought. In some cases up the back on the road might be closer to the mains. In other cases like you say might be better closer to the building.

In the Ikea I mentioned it's all under the building so you'd think there woud be power everywhere.. but who knows. It's a new site and AFAIK it's been there since the beginning.

But I will say my position unchanged. If you give the EV chargers rockstar parking you're setting yourself up for a bad time. The non ev owners will hate the ev owners. Some EV owners will park there and not charge so the ev owners will hate the other ev owners. Basically everyone will end up hating everyone.

Here's something that will make you happy I think. Some of the tesla superchargers were installed in Brisbane in commercial car parks. Since they were put in the carpark owners have now started charging for parking. So in some cases people have to pay the parking fees AND the chargning fees. Clearly this is less than ideal.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

That's a fair point, but I think it would very much depend on every site that line of thought. In some cases up the back on the road might be closer to the mains. In other cases like you say might be better closer to the building.

In the Ikea I mentioned it's all under the building so you'd think there woud be power everywhere.. but who knows. It's a new site and AFAIK it's been there since the beginning.

But I will say my position unchanged. If you give the EV chargers rockstar parking you're setting yourself up for a bad time. The non ev owners will hate the ev owners. Some EV owners will park there and not charge so the ev owners will hate the other ev owners. Basically everyone will end up hating everyone.

Here's something that will make you happy I think. Some of the tesla superchargers were installed in Brisbane in commercial car parks. Since they were put in the carpark owners have now started charging for parking. So in some cases people have to pay the parking fees AND the chargning fees. Clearly this is less than ideal.

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I don't hate anyone .... and don't really care. If I needed to park and the chargers were empty. I'd just park there .... Why do I care ? It they don't get used, it doesn't matter at all :) .... not only that, it also proves the stupidity of spending huge chunks of tax payers money to install them (as I have no doubt, that is where the money to set them up has come from).

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

I don't hate anyone .... and don't really care. If I needed to park and the chargers were empty. I'd just park there .... Why do I care ? It they don't get used, it doesn't matter at all :) .... not only that, it also proves the stupidity of spending huge chunks of tax payers money to install them (as I have no doubt, that is where the money to set them up has come from).

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Lol.. we've been through this. The private sector is by far the biggest operator of chargers. The QLD government has spent 9.13 MILLION on these chargers.

For some context, the feds gave 2.4 BILLION to prop up refineries in 2021.

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As of late 2025 and early 2026, there are
over 400–500+ public electric vehicle (EV) charging stations in Queensland, with rapid expansion driven by both government and private sector partnerships. The infrastructure is largely dominated by fast-charging networks along major corridors, with over 150 fast or ultra-fast sites reported by mid-2024, a number that has increased significantly.

Breakdown of Government vs. Private Chargers

• Queensland Government (QESH): The Queensland Electric Super Highway (QESH) Phase 3 is fully completed, featuring 54 fast-charging locations across the state, stretching from Coolangatta to Port Douglas and inland to Mount Isa.
• Co-Funded/Private Sector: The Government is partnering with the private sector through the $10 million EV Charging Infrastructure Co-Fund Scheme. As of December 2025, 38 co-funded sites have opened, with several more planned for early 2026.
• Total Public Network: While the QESH (54 sites) and Co-Fund (38+ sites) make up a significant portion of the fast-charging network, the total number of all public chargers (including slower AC chargers at shopping centres, hotels, and private networks like Evie Networks, Tesla, and Chargefox) brings the total to over 400.

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For some context, the feds gave 2.4 BILLION to prop up refineries in 2021

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My understanding that any subsidies to refineries is for strategic purposes to ensure in a worst case that we have fuel for our tanks.
Until they develop an electric tank that is not dependent on charging stations that is.
Regards PhilipA

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In 2022, the Australian Government continued to provide significant financial support to the nation’s two remaining oil refineries—Ampol (Lytton, QLD) and Viva Energy (Geelong, VIC)—to ensure fuel security and maintain local production.

Key subsidies and support measures in 2022 included:

• Fuel Security Services Payment (FSSP): Commencing on July 1, 2021, and continuing through 2022, this scheme provided a variable payment of up to 1.8 cents per litre to refiners during periods when profit margins fell below a set threshold ($10.20/barrel). This support was designed to keep refineries operating until at least June 30, 2027 (with options to extend to 2030).
• Refinery Upgrades Program: The government committed up to $125 million per refinery (totaling $250 million) for major infrastructure upgrades to produce higher-quality fuel (ultra-low sulfur) by 2024.
• Emergency Stockpile Funding: Additional funding was provided to boost diesel storage capacity.
• Overall Support Value: Reports indicated that these measures, combined with other support, formed part of a broader, multi-billion dollar, decade-long package to support the industry.
  

In April 2022, an additional $250 million in grants was announced for the two refineries, which was criticized by groups such as the Electric Vehicle Council for "propping up the failing oil industry" rather than investing in cleaner energy.

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This is a google search AI. could you give a reference for your 2.4 billion figure as it looks grossly exaggerated.

This is just staggering. I was wondering how on earth the chinese evs, even from manufacturers that I've never heard of before were managing to flood our market with massive discounting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwNl...GHKiGM7w%3D%3D

we are giving them litteraly bilions of $$$ under the table after the cars have been sold :o

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

My understanding that any subsidies to refineries is for strategic purposes to ensure in a worst case that we have fuel for our tanks.
Until they develop an electric tank that is not dependent on charging stations that is.
Regards PhilipA

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My head hurts. So when it's pointed out that we spend a lot subsidising fossil fuel the response is "Oh.. but that's to ensure we have fuel in our tanks!". Like that's off the table.

Every EV on the road reduces our dependency on oil supply chains. Meanwhile grants to refineries like this don't fix the problem at all.. they just kick the can down the road. For a country like Aus that imports the bulk of it's oil EV's are an extra good idea.

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

This is a google search AI. could you give a reference for your 2.4 billion figure as it looks grossly exaggerated.

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Is it? I do try hard not to be deceptive. I'd be surprised if it isn't extended in 2030. I havent got time today to fill more details. But it's real.

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Australia's two remaining oil refineries will be encouraged to stay put under a $2 billion plan aimed at shoring up the nation's fuel security.

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Last remaining oil refineries urged to stay in Australia with $2 billion fuel security package - ABC News

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

This is just staggering. I was wondering how on earth the chinese evs, even from manufacturers that I've never heard of before were managing to flood our market with massive discounting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwNlHV2h2d4&t=304s&pp=ugUHEgVlbi1V U9IHCQlP CgGHKiGM7w%3D%3D

we are giving them litteraly bilions of $$$ under the table after the cars have been sold :o

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Spectacular disinformation. As usual.

So when you say "WE ARE GIVING THEM". What you mean is if a manufacturer doesn't reach his target he might have to pay fines to the government. Or he could buy credits off another car maker who has exceeded his target. They might be a chinese manufacturer or they might not. And then they won't have to pay anything to the government.

The thing is the carmakers agreed with this scheme. Because they knew they had to do something.

New Vehicle Efficiency Standard passes Federal Parliament - FCAI

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New Vehicle Efficiency Standard passes Federal Parliament

16 May 2024
The Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (FCAI) welcomes the certainty provided by the passage of the New Vehicle Efficiency Standard (NVES) Bill through Federal Parliament.
This legislation provides the framework for the transition to a low and zero-emission future for Australia’s automotive industry, ensuring clarity for both the industry and consumers.

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So look he's deceptived described something that really exists. That's bad but IMHO the worst part it is he suggests that there are ICE vehicles that have a lower CO2 output like for like than EV's. Maybe if you only count the first year, but any longer than that and it's just wrong. And he just states it like it's fact and he's somehow discovered something that all those silly scientists haven't worked out.

And it's particularly so if you account for the carbon cost of exploration, extraction, transport, storage, refining of fuels. This part of the equation is usually just conveniently passed over.


Study shows EV lifecycle emissions substantially lower than ICE - carsales.com.au

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On a whole-of-life basis, electric vehicles emit substantially less carbon dioxide than their conventional internal combustion engine (ICE) counterparts, according to a new study conducted by a strategic research arm of news service Bloomberg.

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The study factored in the full production process of EV and ICE vehicles including carbon-heavy battery production. It did not, however, factor in the carbon produced in the production and transportation of petroleum-based fuels.

Following that logic, the emissions advantage offered by EVs is potentially even higher.

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PS I didn't watch the whole video because I don't want to give him the revenue.
PS he pumps out so much disinformation that he's got "Fact Check" articles written about him. Bravo. Trustworthy source for sure.
Sideways view of global temperatures is nonsense | AAP

[QUOTE][/ For a country like Aus that imports the bulk of it's oil EV's are an extra good idea QUOTE]
No Australia does not import most of its oil. Last time I looked several years ago we export about 70% of our requirements as crude oil which is refined overseas then imported as refined product.
This is because the Government set strict standards on fuel quality such a Sulphur in diesel which our old refineries could not meet without Government help, which they then did not give, coupled with Shell and others building mega refineries in Singapore and elsewhere to supply the whole of Asia and shutting down their local refineries.
So the Government taketh away then oops gives back.
Regards PhilipA

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

Spectacular disinformation. As usual.

So when you say "WE ARE GIVING THEM". What you mean is if a manufacturer doesn't reach his target he might have to pay fines to the government. Or he could buy credits off another car maker who has exceeded his target. They might be a chinese manufacturer or they might not. And then they won't have to pay anything to the government.

The thing is the carmakers agreed with this scheme. Because they knew they had to do something.

New Vehicle Efficiency Standard passes Federal Parliament - FCAI




So look he's deceptived described something that really exists. That's bad but IMHO the worst part it is he suggests that there are ICE vehicles that have a lower CO2 output like for like than EV's. Maybe if you only count the first year, but any longer than that and it's just wrong. And he just states it like it's fact and he's somehow discovered something that all those silly scientists haven't worked out.

And it's particularly so if you account for the carbon cost of exploration, extraction, transport, storage, refining of fuels. This part of the equation is usually just conveniently passed over.


Study shows EV lifecycle emissions substantially lower than ICE - carsales.com.au





PS I didn't watch the whole video because I don't want to give him the revenue.
PS he pumps out so much disinformation that he's got "Fact Check" articles written about him. Bravo. Trustworthy source for sure.
Sideways view of global temperatures is nonsense | AAP

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It is not dis-imformation if it is true. what he is saying is exactly what is happening. Is it dis-information because that is supposed to be what the scheme does? So you can buy a twin cab ute .... load it up with tools and use it heavily as a work vehicle for a few years and get heavily punished for it. Or buy a little crappy chinese electric throw-away that sits mostly un-used as a 3rd/4th car .... and get gifted $14,000 towards the purchase price "To save the environment". Explain to me how this makes sense again? As this is exactly what is happening.

Saying an EV doesn't create the mighty $$$$$$$$$ C02 carbon dioxide $$$$$$$ is just utter stupidity. No wonder we have holding yards all over australia full of unsold electric throw-aways. If they cost less than $14,000 to actually build. you can litteraly import them and throw them away after getting the real car buyers funded freebies back.

[QUOTE=PhilipA;3262002]

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[/ For a country like Aus that imports the bulk of it's oil EV's are an extra good idea QUOTE]
No Australia does not import most of its oil. Last time I looked several years ago we export about 70% of our requirements as crude oil which is refined overseas then imported as refined product.
This is because the Government set strict standards on fuel quality such a Sulphur in diesel which our old refineries could not meet without Government help, which they then did not give, coupled with Shell and others building mega refineries in Singapore and elsewhere to supply the whole of Asia and shutting down their local refineries.
So the Government taketh away then oops gives back.
Regards PhilipA

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The Bulwar Island facility was upgraded, to produce low sulphur fuel, at least twenty years ago.