Thread: EV general discussion

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

The poor aren't subsiding these cars with there tax dollars though

Electric vehicle FBT: Cost of Labor'''s EV policy blows out, benefits wealthy

I'd always assumed this was the case, mostly the wealthy are taking advantage of this stuff. The wealthy that will no doubt have several other proper cars as well. Sowe are effectively sponsoring them having a "toy electric throw-away".

Yep, level playing field I say. Cut the 1.35 billion for EV's, and the 25billion for ICE vehicles as well.

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

Let us know how your figures are going with the electric throw-aways when they are 20years old. You running costs for something like a defender are nonsense. You would be stunned if I worked out how little the ****box range rover has cost to run over the last decade. To actually feed it, is quite expensive. It certainly hasn't been an expensive vehicle to buy, maintain or (if I ever decide to) sell. Its probably appreciated about 500% on its purchase value. Its extraudenarily reliable (given everyone thinks they aren't). You just change the oil .... add a bit every few thousand kms (as it uses a bit), add a bit of coolant every few months (as it dissapears a bit ... I've never found from where ... but its been doing it for 10years. I think the radiator may weep somewhere in its core) ... Um, tires are expensive, but I've generally put unworn cheap tires from marketplace on it.

Your electric throw-away will have lost more in its first 12months of ownership than this daily driver has cost me all up in 10 years regardless of its absolutely horrendous thirst. The main disclaimer here is its not doing huge milage. If I was using it for commuting or lots of milage, you would be going bankrupt with the running costs and endless upkeep.

If I just kept a car for the occasional local trip, bunnings run on sunday... things would be different. In the last 2.5 years I've done 15k. 2x double desert trips at 5k each, and a couple weeks on Fraser that's about 1500-2000.

On top of normal oils, belts and little thigns... some of the big items... Koni shock absorbers, underbody spray, ashcroft ATB, ECU upgrade (that was discretionary), AC compressor, Cranking and lithium battery install, tow controller, New brakes, new clutch, new clutch fan, fuel pump, fuel tank. If you go back 6 months before that, there were swivel ball replacements. It's been a tough couple of years. If it was a city defender that list would have been a lot shorter. Probably no list at all. Some of these things are just time based unfortunately. Given the majority of it's use is remote, I need to do what I can to maximise my chances.

PS this year will be a BIG year for the car. We will do 15k this year. 10 to wa and back plus another double desert. Might be three desert crossings this year if I get a madigan on the way back from WA. Everyone needs a hobby.

So I'll concede that comaring it to a city car isn't really fair. Either electric or ICE.

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

Ok let's do this carefully.



Those values are from the Redbook valuation data which carsales provides for free to help people value their car for sale.

You are right potentially the Tesla owners might not get those values, but you could say the same about the D3 owners too. So I'm not sure what your argument is.

Two cars with roughly the same value in 2015. Now the EV is worth more than the ICE car.

I'm typing this carefully, and slowly, for you.....

You claimed your post proved the secondhand market for EV's but.......you don't know if the vehicles actually sell and, if so, you have no idea what they actually sell for.

You've shown that 'potentially' a secondhand Tesla is worth more than a completely different category of ICE vehicle. Comparing apples & oranges for some strange reason.

What will be interesting 'down the track' will be to see if there's a secondhand market for Chinese EV's.


Colin

Originally Posted by gromit

I'm typing this carefully, and slowly, for you.....

You claimed your post proved the secondhand market for EV's but.......you don't know if the vehicles actually sell and, if so, you have no idea what they actually sell for.

You've shown that 'potentially' a secondhand Tesla is worth more than a completely different category of ICE vehicle. Comparing apples & oranges for some strange reason.

What will be interesting 'down the track' will be to see if there's a secondhand market for Chinese EV's.


Colin

Sigh.

Carsales is full of dreamers. I agree. I'm sure there are just as many Disco dreamers as tesla dreamers.

That's why rather than just having a look at a selection of Teslas and Discos and trying to average it out I chose to use the Redbook valuation data which is provided for free through carsales. That's why I got it off the carsales portal. When I used to work for a fleet company they used to have little books with all the cars provided by redbook and it costs a motza.

Redbook might not be perfect but it's the industry standard. It's based on auction sales and other data and not what private sellers dream up. When the insurance company quotes "market value" it's usually redbook. I've been completely tranparent on how I produced the data.

Here you go.. go knock yourself out. Note the "powered by redbook" down the bottom.

Value My Car — Free Online Car Valuation - carsales.com.au

I love this thread. I provide stuff like this. And people just say "no.. that's rubbish. I refuse to accecpt this reality".

Interesting that any search for subsidies for ICE cars returns nothing. FBT stuff applies to every car that is in the bracket. Try and get it on a Corolla. But a similar size EV attracts the subsidy. All new or demonstrator EVs do, up to the luxury car threshold. Your argument makes no sense.

Originally Posted by Tins

Interesting that any search for subsidies for ICE cars returns nothing. FBT stuff applies to every car that is in the bracket. Try and get it on a Corolla. But a similar size EV attracts the subsidy. All new or demonstrator EVs do, up to the luxury car threshold. Your argument makes no sense.

I think he is talking about work vehicle subsidies ... which is just stupid. These are vehicles that are helping build our country. Are actually doing work. Not helping fund toys for rich people that want to display there "green credentials" to the world.

There is nothing wrong with electric cars, anyone that wants one, is more than welcome to go buy one. Its just nuts creating mandates and freebies so the wealthy can buy them. We are just transfering the wealth from people that can't even afford a new car, to the people that can afford new cars.

I am shocked by the low prices for RRS and D3-4 . Maybe the word has spread about exploding engines!
How about comparing a Land Cruiser 200 or 300 to a Tesla.
I noted a 2018 RRS a couple of days ago for $40K. I paid $40K for my 2018 Everest a couple of years ago. The new prices were vastly different.
There was a D5 for a very low price also AFAIR 28K.
So to me comparing one of the worst retained value cars in the market to a relatively popular Tesla model is bogus. Maybe a model 3 if any are sold used!

Regards PhilipA

Originally Posted by PhilipA

I am shocked by the low prices for RRS and D3-4 . Maybe the word has spread about exploding engines!
How about comparing a Land Cruiser 200 or 300 to a Tesla.
I noted a 2018 RRS a couple of days ago for $40K. I paid $40K for my 2018 Everest a couple of years ago. The new prices were vastly different.
There was a D5 for a very low price also AFAIR 28K.
So to me comparing one of the worst retained value cars in the market to a relatively popular Tesla model is bogus. Maybe a model 3 if any are sold used!

Regards PhilipA

Now we're thinking!

A landcriuser sahara from 2015 Was also about $110k new. .. the redbook value is currently $76,600 - $83,000. Golly that's waaaay better than the Discovery and the Tesla. It shows the landcruiser is the positive case and the Disco is the bad case. I might cross post this in the Ineos thread.

It shows that blanket assertions that "all EV's will be worth nothing" is just speculation/madness. It's just untrue. It depends. Cars are depreciating assets. You don't buy a car to make money.

In that ensuing 10 years I'm sure the tesla paid an order of magnitude less in fuel and operating costs.