Thread: Improving transport taxes for the future

Originally Posted by Arapiles

That might work in Tokyo - if they had a congestion problem with private cars, which they don’t - but in the absence of a widespread and efficient public transport system in Sydney or Melbourne, all that would do is punish people who can’t afford to live close to the CBD and cut off a lot of people from access to the best jobs. It would be utterly regressive and simply exacerbate the inequalities building in our society.

Rubbish. It would force people who currently drive into and park in the CBD to drive to and park at a transit centre further out and catch public transport in to the CBD. It might even convince some Luddites that their offices can nowadays in the electronic age be anywhere. Why does a large insurance or financial company need to be in the CBD? It can be headquartered in Dubbo or Darwin or Wooriyallock. Other than ministerial offices, public service departments can be set up in country towns.

Originally Posted by Bigbjorn

…………………... Why does a large insurance or financial company need to be in the CBD? It can be headquartered in Dubbo or Darwin or Wooriyallock. Other than ministerial offices, public service departments can be set up in country towns.

I think you've answered your own question as CBD= Central Business District. There is an experiment in geopolitical science IIRC, take a flat featureless piece of land, so no rivers, ports, etc and start putting dots equidistant apart to represent settlements, villages, towns etc and it soon becomes apparent that a hexagonal pattern starts to form so even without natural advantages certain places become centres due to distance.

Originally Posted by Bigbjorn

Rubbish. It would force people who currently drive into and park in the CBD to drive to and park at a transit centre further out and catch public transport in to the CBD. It might even convince some Luddites that their offices can nowadays in the electronic age be anywhere. Why does a large insurance or financial company need to be in the CBD? It can be headquartered in Dubbo or Darwin or Wooriyallock. Other than ministerial offices, public service departments can be set up in country towns.

So, you’d force people into a multi-mode trip - adding cost, complexity and inconvenience - and add traffic and parking pressure in areas just outside your exclusion zone. Note too that you’re talking about forcing people to do something to make the roads clearer for - who, exactly? Commercial operators? People who can afford to pay the congestion tax? People would still be driving too, so it’s not like there’s a huge environmental benefit to it.

I lived in London and I was never convinced that the congestion zone added anything other than traffic to the routes around it.

Originally Posted by Bigbjorn

Rubbish. It would force people who currently drive into and park in the CBD to drive to and park at a transit centre further out and catch public transport in to the CBD. It might even convince some Luddites that their offices can nowadays in the electronic age be anywhere. Why does a large insurance or financial company need to be in the CBD? It can be headquartered in Dubbo or Darwin or Wooriyallock. Other than ministerial offices, public service departments can be set up in country towns.

In Melbourne there would need to be a heap of work extra to what is happening already to allow this to happen - the Trains and Trams are at capacity - actually beyond capacity - during peak hours already. Trains regulaly skip stops now during peaks as they are full heading in, and try getting on ANY tram heading into the City in the morning - unless you're at the start of the line, forget it and despite the works happening on the Metro Rail Tunnel and signalling upgrades, this is at best going to allow the system to gain enough extra capacity to keep up with current organic growth - if you forced the drivers onto the trains at the moment, or any time in the foreseeable future, the whole system would grind to a halt - hardly efficient (or vote winning.)

One of the things needed to help fix this and allow these sort of initiatives is for businesses to have more flexible start and finish times for their employees. I get that retail has to be open from A to B, but almost all offices could have early starters and late finishers to stagger the peak hour loads - which is where all the issues are.

More than just roads, rail and infrastructure planning is needed to fix this.

Apart from London, another example is Singapore, which has had a charge for driving into the CBD for at least two decades, very successfully. Very smart people they are in Singapore.
It might boost the growth of regional hubs, which is already happening, for example at North Sydney, Parramatta and other places in Sydney, or in Brisbane at Garden City and other locations, including the Gold and Sunshine Coasts. For example, Youi Insurance is based at Sippy Downs on the Sunshine Coast.
Reducing congestion on public transport doesn't always mean more trains and buses, it can mean giving people reasons to change their transport habits.
If fast rail is built to connect the regional centres to the CBD then why would people drive? We rarely drive into the Brisbane CBD now. Train or bus are the way to go.

I’d rather shoot myself in the face than use public transport.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Apart from London, another example is Singapore, which has had a charge for driving into the CBD for at least two decades, very successfully. Very smart people they are in Singapore.
It might boost the growth of regional hubs, which is already happening, for example at North Sydney, Parramatta and other places in Sydney, or in Brisbane at Garden City and other locations, including the Gold and Sunshine Coasts. For example, Youi Insurance is based at Sippy Downs on the Sunshine Coast.
Reducing congestion on public transport doesn't always mean more trains and buses, it can mean giving people reasons to change their transport habits.
If fast rail is built to connect the regional centres to the CBD then why would people drive? We rarely drive into the Brisbane CBD now. Train or bus are the way to go.

Boosting growth in regional hubs sounds like a great idea,but does it really work?

Have you seen the huge number of people that drive from the Sunshine and Gold Coast to Brisbane each day for work?

The roads out of places like Springfield are also clogged each morning with commuters leaving the area.Yet it is supposed to be one of these 'regional hubs'

Yarrabilba is another stuff up,virtually no public transport at all.Yet the politicians beat their chests saying there are going to be 10 000 homes in the area?Great.The main road to the area is single lane each way.

What we need is a fast and efficient public transport system,that is the bottom line.One doesn't exist anywhere in Brisbane.

[QUOTE=DiscoMick;2962474] For example, Youi Insurance is based at Sippy Downs on the Sunshine Coast.

When I went to lodge a claim last year I found out that the insurer that has my household and motor insurance does not publish an address in White Pages. I 'phoned the teleservice centre and was told that there is no office for clients to come to. All claims are done on-line or by telephone. So their offices can be anywhere. No need for a 50 story cubicle farm in the city centre. In Melbourne your offices could be north of Thomastown, west of Geelong, or out at Moe. No peak hour travel. Sydney Water Board moved 2000+ staff from Pitt St. to Parramatta. Many were right royally displeased but many liked the change. Depends on where they lived. Anyone who lived west of Burwood were delighted. Those from the east and north were not as this relocation meant two trips each way not one. Most corporations could move out as the city offices are just admin centres with no customer contact. NSW public service moved some departments to country towns and found that most staff who were not locked into that particular govt. work by their qualifications started applying for jobs back in Sydney rather than stay in Orange or Armidale or similar.