Hypothetical conversation between Tesla and a facility manager

Sitting for “sub an hour” to charge a vehicle would cost me over $100 just for my time lost.

I cannot afford that, for $10 of power.

And there’s no savings to be had, the degradation is quite rapid, the depreciation on that MG horrendous.

Meanwhile a D3 is sitting registered and insured. Even with a set of suspension arms every 2 years you’re not saving cash.

Can you do a TCO on both?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tombie

Sitting for “sub an hour” to charge a vehicle would cost me over $100 just for my time lost.

I cannot afford that, for $10 of power.

And there’s no savings to be had, the degradation is quite rapid, the depreciation on that MG horrendous.

Meanwhile a D3 is sitting registered and insured. Even with a set of suspension arms every 2 years you’re not saving cash.

Can you do a TCO on both?

---

Cheap mate- I invoice out at over $200 per hour if I charge people[thumbsupbig] Agree time is precious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PhilipA

Er so you paid twice what an equivalent ICE car would cost new to save say $1000 per year in fuel, and lose say 200 hours waiting for charging.

Note you are the one talking about saving money on fuel.

I always find this a very amusing argument particularly from $150K Tesla owners.
Regards PhilipA

---

That's the same argument I used to hear about diesels or for that matter solar installations on houses. People said that you wouldn't amortise the price difference between a diesel and a petrol in fuel savings from the diesel - but they were missing the point that you don't need to amortise the difference because when you sell them the diesels are still worth proportionally more than the petrol. I'd expect that the same thing would occur with vehicles like the Kona that are available in petrol, hybrid and electric - the electric one won't drop to the depreciated price of the cheapest petrol model. In the interim you have the cost savings (which are pretty significant with an EV) and in the case of a diesel the better range and driveability compared to an equivalent petrol.

And re Teslas, this one depreciated less than the Toyota:

Tesla v Toyota: A tale of two resale values | CarExpert

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NavyDiver

Cheap mate- I invoice out at over $200 per hour if I charge people[thumbsupbig] Agree time is precious.

---

Wanna brag huh?

My time is worth so much no-one can afford me !

(hence I am pennyless)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arapiles

That's the same argument I used to hear about diesels or for that matter solar installations on houses. People said that you wouldn't amortise the price difference between a diesel and a petrol in fuel savings from the diesel - but they were missing the point that you don't need to amortise the difference because when you sell them the diesels are still worth proportionally more than the petrol. I'd expect that the same thing would occur with vehicles like the Kona that are available in petrol, hybrid and electric - the electric one won't drop to the depreciated price of the cheapest petrol model. In the interim you have the cost savings (which are pretty significant with an EV) and in the case of a diesel the better range and driveability compared to an equivalent petrol.

And re Teslas, this one depreciated less than the Toyota:

Tesla v Toyota: A tale of two resale values | CarExpert

---

EV’s seem to be depreciating at a staggering rate - sure they’ll be examples of top spec $150K vehicles doing ok, but in the more realistic market where most manufacturers will aim their products, they aren’t holding any real value beyond a few years - no one want to touch one when the batteries start to get a bit long in the tooth - look what happened to the Prius - they aren’t worth a cracker and weren’t after only a few years and that still has an engine to use. I can see straight EV’s suffering even worse - while I balk now at a new one due to cost, I’d run screaming into the hills from a second hand one because of what the battery packs will cost to replace.

Haven't sold one yet so couldn't comment[biggrin]


Edit
A 2013 leaf at 14K is the cheapest ev on car sales in Melbourne. That is crazy[tonguewink] carsales.com.au
Might just be those crazy Victorian prices???? None available in Brisbane? Zip in Sydney? Perth low price is a 2013 Leaf costing sorry asking "$16,999*"
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/western-australia-state/perth-region/electric-fueltype/'sort=%7ePrice

Gumtree prices OUCH ? carsales.com.au
We may need to check the numbers again on resale?

We clearly need to reconsider running costs[bawl] I just ran past a place at over $2 per litre[tonguewink][tonguewink][tonguewink] When will fuel prices settle? Gas oil and.. up over 95% in less than 12 months! OUCH plus for many reasons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homestar

EV’s seem to be depreciating at a staggering rate - sure they’ll be examples of top spec $150K vehicles doing ok, but in the more realistic market where most manufacturers will aim their products, they aren’t holding any real value beyond a few years - no one want to touch one when the batteries start to get a bit long in the tooth - look what happened to the Prius - they aren’t worth a cracker and weren’t after only a few years and that still has an engine to use. I can see straight EV’s suffering even worse - while I balk now at a new one due to cost, I’d run screaming into the hills from a second hand one because of what the battery packs will cost to replace.

---

Dunno about the Chinese EVs, but the people who wouldn't buy a Prius second hand because of the batteries were missing out - there's heaps that have been used as taxis and have over 500,000 kms so the reliability is actually there, and at least in the early days, Toyota was reputedly replacing for free any batteries that failed but I've not heard of that being done.

Prius's do not have Lithium Ion batteries.

In Australia they have always had Nicad.

I read a couple of years ago that even the new model which had Lion in say the USA have Nicad in Australia.
it looks like the Nicads have had great reliability.
Regards PhilipA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PhilipA

Prius's do not have Lithium Ion batteries.

In Australia they have always had Nicad.

---

I'm going to nitpick and say they have NiMH rather than NiCD. Same same but different, particularly when it comes to recycling.

Anyway, a Prius isn't an electric car unless you count a vehicle with ~20km battery range "an electric car". It's a hybrid. A very good hybrid, but it's pretty much impotent without petrol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arapiles

Dunno about the Chinese EVs, but the people who wouldn't buy a Prius second hand because of the batteries were missing out - there's heaps that have been used as taxis and have over 500,000 kms so the reliability is actually there, and at least in the early days, Toyota was reputedly replacing for free any batteries that failed but I've not heard of that being done.

---

I’m not saying they were a bad car, far from it. Just noting how much more depreciation they suffered compared to ICE vehicles of the same era.