Thread: Solar Electric for the home

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Do any of the sparkies out there know if there is a safe, legal way to disconnect your home from the grid temporarily. I.e. - say you have a grid interactive solar system, and there is a brown out where you live. If you disconnect from the grid, you could still use the power you are generating...

Whilst not a sparkie, I do agree with Bee Utey as the Inverter used for a grid connect system will not operate when there is no power on the grid. So one out ... all out.

It may be possible to configure a system to provide power when the grid is down as well as feed in when it isn't, but that is a bigger question than is normally covered in a forum like this. However it raises an interesting question, Could you store power during off peak times and feed it back in during peak times (if you had such a system) as this would increase the benefits from feed in tarrifs (in some states) and improve payback times!

Hmm! More homework needed!

Originally Posted by R4+Z

Whilst not a sparkie, I do agree with Bee Utey as the Inverter used for a grid connect system will not operate when there is no power on the grid. So one out ... all out.

It may be possible to configure a system to provide power when the grid is down as well as feed in when it isn't, but that is a bigger question than is normally covered in a forum like this. However it raises an interesting question, Could you store power during off peak times and feed it back in during peak times (if you had such a system) as this would increase the benefits from feed in tarrifs (in some states) and improve payback times!

Hmm! More homework needed!

With sufficient money, anything is possible! For emergency running, a dual use inverter is here: Selectronic Australia Pty Ltd - True Sine Wave Inverters

I believe group trials of electric cars will include the ability to feed the grid from the vehicle battery in times of peak load. That way more cars can be safely charged off the existing grid. When you arn't driving the car remains plugged in to a grid interactive charger/inverter.

G'day All, I have been looking at this thread and have read some of the comments in a link posted by 'Chucaro', we installed a twin set of 3 panels, it is located on the garage/shed and all the gadgets that go with it are located within the shed, it has been operational now since early September 2009.
We have generated some 900Kwh, we have also have 2 accounts from, INTEGRAL ENERGY and we haven't recieved a bloody cent from anything generated, so much for green energy, the last time we spoke to them, they said we now need to spend another $3,500+ to install a "Grosse meter" whatever the hell that is and that isn't going to happen, so for my investment of who knows what we have had zero/zulch/nothing/FA for our outlay. We have contacted our energy supplier (as stated above) they claim they haven't paid anyone for anything thats put into the grid, my wife has spent hours on the phone talking to idiots who don't know the difference between s**t n clay, I could/should have spent the money on something better, like a much bigger truck to restore, and just to add insult to injury, I had just replaced the roof on the garage and now it has holes in it everywhere holding down the crap thats up there, so whats the point of this, think long and hard before wasting money installing solar panels rant over cheers Dennis

Dennis, you sound like you have the older metering system installed. I'm not sure how it works - probably with a nett feed-in tariff where what you generate is deducted from what you use.

There was a loophole which was supposed to have been closed where the electricity companies weren't paying for the electricity generated if it was above what you used. They left you in credit.

From this year, NSW introduced gross feed-in tariffs where you are paid 60c/kWh you generate. Your meter will need to be changed to do that.

See also NSW Solar Bonus Scheme - frequently asked questions | Industry & Investment NSW?

See in particular:

Consumers in the EnergyAustralia and Country Energy network areas who are thinking of installing solar PV systems during the transitional period (up until 1 July 2010) should be aware that the network businesses will pay the credit to customers with net metering during this period. However, after 1 July 2010 and for the remainder of the Scheme's duration, the credit will only be paid to eligible customers with gross metering. After 1 January 2010, consumers who wish to participate in the Solar Bonus Scheme and have not yet installed a renewable energy generator and electricity meter should consider their options carefully, and should be aware that changing metering will incur expenses.

However, the $3,500 charge seems excessive. I'll check with my supplier for an estimated supply/install cost.

Many people who tell me they are getting solar panels on I say to them: "Make sure you get the import/export meter fitted first!" Nah, they say, the solar installer is taking care of that. Well, they don't. It's the electricity retailer that organises meters and they need months of lead time to get around to it. If they aren't booked in ASAP you will generate power FOR MONTHS that will only reduce your total not generate credit. In SA it cost me $850 for ETSA to install a suitable 3 phase meter. I had it on 1 month before the solar was connected and so it generated credits from day 1.

In 18 months my 1.5kW system has generated 3370kWh and sold 2270 of them for credit at 50c/kWh. So 1100 come off my bill at 20c/kWh as well. Definitely worth it for me so long as nothing blows up.

I'm getting closer to building on my bush block. The power lines run along my front boundary, but my preferred building sites (not finalised yet) are some 200 plus m back.

I don't plan on using much power, so am thinking of a few PV panels and batteries, and a generator for power tools. No inverter or grid connection, simply DC power for led or florescent lights, similar fridge technology to what we use in vehicles.

Originally Posted by Dinty

G'day All, I have been looking at this thread and have read some of the comments in a link posted by 'Chucaro', we installed a twin set of 3 panels, it is located on the garage/shed and all the gadgets that go with it are located within the shed, it has been operational now since early September 2009.
We have generated some 900Kwh, we have also have 2 accounts from, INTEGRAL ENERGY and we haven't recieved a bloody cent from anything generated, so much for green energy, the last time we spoke to them, they said we now need to spend another $3,500+ to install a "Grosse meter" whatever the hell that is and that isn't going to happen, so for my investment of who knows what we have had zero/zulch/nothing/FA for our outlay. We have contacted our energy supplier (as stated above) they claim they haven't paid anyone for anything thats put into the grid, my wife has spent hours on the phone talking to idiots who don't know the difference between s**t n clay, I could/should have spent the money on something better, like a much bigger truck to restore, and just to add insult to injury, I had just replaced the roof on the garage and now it has holes in it everywhere holding down the crap thats up there, so whats the point of this, think long and hard before wasting money installing solar panels rant over cheers Dennis

G'day Dennis.

I'm an electrician and a Clean Energy Council accredited solar installer, and I am (sadly) quite familiar with the paperwork etc involved in getting the metering sorted correctly.

p38arover is on the right track - back in September 2009 your system would have been configured as a "net" metered system and should have had a "bi-directional" meter (probably digital) fitted at your switchboard on completion.
Basically under the net metering system your property would use power generated by the PV system in preference to drawing from the grid, and any excess generation would be fed to the grid, effectively offseting your power usage when you are at home with the power generated when you are not.

The legislation was changed to the Solar Bonus Scheme with no warning at the very end of December 2009. This caused quite a lot of issues for all the energy distributors in NSW (Country Energy, Energy Australia and Integral Energy) as two of them were caught without suitable meters for quite some time and all were underprepared for the massive increase in applications and connections. (to give an example Integral were just today processing applications I submitted on 14/4 and have only just inspected systems I installed in late February! Metering was fitted and power being exported well prior to their inspection). Under the Solar Bonus Scheme all systems are to be configured as "gross" metered, with a separate "gross" meter measuring all power generated and exported to the grid by your pv system and your normal import meters (peak and off peak) measuring power drawn by your property. Here's the kicker for those of you with rural properties however......in order for gross metering to be used, the output from inverter must be directly connected to the main switchboard (where the meters are located), NOT to a sub-distribution board as is typically used for a shed or garage located away from the main house.

To have a gross meter installed is typically a $300 to $500 exercise and can be carried out by any Level 2 Category 4 Authorised Service Provider electrician as a contestable work. A complete list of these providers can be found on the Fair Trading NSW website here http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/pd...ist_level2.pdf (note 56 pages 415kb might take a while to load). Your quote for $3500 sounds to me like you have the situation described above....i.e. pv system has been connected to a sub-distribution board rather than the main switchboard. The additional costs would likely be for trenching and running a new cable from the inverter location to the main switchboard.

Note that your energy supplier may not necessarily be the best people to contact regarding this kind of thing - there are two tiers of energy companies in NSW, distributors (Country Energy, Energy Australia, Integral Energy) who own and maintain the poles and wires in the street and retailers (many and various but confusingly also including the RETAIL branches of Country Energy, Energy Australia and Integral Energy) who you buy your electricity from. You can buy from ANY RETAILER, irrespective of the DISTRIBUTOR for your area, (same as internet and telephone via Optus or Telstra or 3 or whoever but over same set of wires). The distributor for your area (Cessnock I believe? is Energy Australia) is the best to talk to about metering.

As to the holes forming in your garage roof where the pv system rails are screwed down....it sounds like it is a warranty issue to me, particularly if the roof had been replaced recently prior to the pv system install. Take a careful look under one of the L-shaped mounting feet - there should be a 3-5mm thick rubber pad insulating the aluminium foot from the metal roof. This prevents galvanic action from corroding your roof away. If not this would likely be the cause of the holes....

If you need further advice please feel free to send me a PM. While Cessnock is somewhat out of my usual operating area of Western Sydney I might even be able to arrange to drop in at some point, inspect your system and give you a free, independent assessment of what needs to be done so you can get quotes from local contractors.

Can you please clarify a point that I am SURE I saw in one ad but no others.

It stated that a condition for accepting the NSW and federal bonuses was that the electricity from the grid would be charged at "Time of Day" metering with AFAIR tariffs of 35c per kw hour from 4 to 8 PM, and lower tariffs at other times, AFAIK 13c and 7c 11PM-6AM.

I have looked at the FAQs on the NSW State Government site but no mention there.

Seeing the "feed in" tariff stays constant at 60c per Kwh for 7 years, as per NSW FAQs, surely this will have a great effect on the investment return, if "time of day" tariffs go up by the percentages indicated in NSW ie 33%.

Experience in the USA and Victoria suggest that "time of day" tariffs increase bills by approx 40% compared with "dumb" metering, so is it that what the government gives with one hand it taketh away with the other???

Regards Philip A