No more 'repairable write offs" in NSW

[Scouse]

One of the current affair shows last night had yet another repaired written off vehicle horror story & finished the segment by announcing that NSW was about to stop the insurance companies selling off vehicles as repairable write offs.

After an accident or theft, the car would either be repaired & hence stay with the owner or it would be a statutory write off & be sold for parts only.



There goes the cottage industry of parts of SW Sydney :(.
Maybe now I can pick up a cheap P38a parts car :).

[Bigbjorn]

Having bought and repaired and sold a couple, I can't see the problem, unless it is one of lackadaisical inspection in NSW. To get the vehicle off the written off vehicles register you have to take it to an authorised inspector of written off vehicles for a thorough inspection of the noted areas requiring repair and produce the invoices showing the parts purchased to effect the repairs. The place at Eagle Farm, Brisbane does a rigid and careful inspection and make you jump through hoops.

Sounds to me like a political beat-up. The pollies need to be seen doing something, anything, and hope to get a few brownie points.Very few road accidents are attributed to mechanical problems or failures and an insignificant percentage would involve repaired write offs.

If they have found badly or unsafely repaired write offs in NSW then there is a failure of the inspection system.

I know the car wrecker industry has been pushing for this for years. They want to get their stock vehicles cheaper. They don't like paying what repairers are prepared to pay for a repairable write off.

[MickS]

One of the current affair shows last night had yet another repaired written off vehicle horror story & finished the segment by announcing that NSW was about to stop the insurance companies selling off vehicles as repairable write offs.

After an accident or theft, the car would either be repaired & hence stay with the owner or it would be a statutory write off & be sold for parts only.



There goes the cottage industry of parts of SW Sydney :(.
Maybe now I can pick up a cheap P38a parts car :).

The smashed auctions must make a fortune for the government....all those cars being "reborn" and re-registered...then insurance companies picking up another policy...I'm sure the insurance industry may well wade in.

[steve_35]

Its about time they stopped selling rubbish as good cars

Dont be surprised if they take it to the limits either

I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes an offense to sell damaged cars full stop

you can hear the squash squads in the backgrounds hassling Innocent ebay users for selling there cars

I think the days of the $2000 dunga are well and truly gone

One thing for sure the wrecking world will feel it the most as they were the ones selling the dungas hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha suffer

[abaddonxi]

My quality of life improved signifcantly once I stopped watching the six-thirty ain't-it-awful shows.

:D

[PhilipA]

The issue is and always has been that the IDs of the "Repairable Write Offs" were and are used to rebirth stolen cars.

It has always been the greed of the insurance companies to get more for the "Repairable" wrecks at auction that has allowed this trade that everybody and their dog knew was being used to rebirth stolen cars that has allowed it to go on so long.

However we will all probably pay more for insurance.
Regards Philip A

[MickS]

I have a mate who has bought and repaired these vehicles. At the moment, he is driving around in a Lotus Elise, which is back on the road for a third of the price of a second hand one. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, mechanically or cosmetically.

Some of these vehicles are stolen/recovered, and have no damage other than ignition damage. Some only require a couple of panels replaced and a new radiator. Some are just hail damaged. A mate bought a top spec Aurion after the Newcastle floods in 2007. Had been submerged. It's back on the road and a brilliant vehicle. It is no different to a car involved in an accident, being repaired and put back on the road.

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[Bigbjorn]

I have a mate who has bought and repaired these vehicles. At the moment, he is driving around in a Lotus Elise, which is back on the road for a third of the price of a second hand one. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, mechanically or cosmetically.

Some of these vehicles are stolen/recovered, and have no damage other than ignition damage. Some only require a couple of panels replaced and a new radiator. Some are just hail damaged. A mate bought a top spec Aurion after the Newcastle floods in 2007. Had been submerged. It's back on the road and a brilliant vehicle. It is no different to a car involved in an accident, being repaired and put back on the road.

Car auctions, truck auctions, damaged car auctions, online car auctions | Sydney Melbourne Brisbane Perth Adelaide Hobart | ManheimFowles (http://www.manheimfowles.com.au/)

Damaged Car Auctions, Damaged Vehicle Auctions, Online Auction - Pickles Auctions Australia (http://www.pickles.com.au/damaged/)

If that car had been submerged, as in totally immersed over the roof, then it should have been a statutory write off.

If a vehicle has been immersed in salt water above the doorsill level for any period, or, fresh water up to the the dashboard or steering wheel for more than 48 hours then it is a statutory write off and may not be re-registered under any circumstances, and may only be used for parts.

Having been involved in a major dealership that had all its stock submerged, and sold off "as is, where is", before the written off vehicle register, I sure as hell would not buy a vehicle known to have been underwater. I saw the ongoing problems the buyers had as the vehicles aged. Not just rust, but ongoing electrical problems. Common one was terminals that just disappeared from electrical corrosion. Great fun.

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

I loved the segment of the repaired and sold Writeable write off. The Airbag sensor bar and the air bag were not replaced. Instead a "RAG WAS STUFFED" into the steering wheel airbag void.:eek:

[ADMIRAL]

My quality of life imroved signifcantly once I stopped watching the six-thirty ain't-it-awful shows.

:D
In another life I worked in the pharmaceutical industry. We used to call the 'snake oil ' products that appeared as if they were new miracle cures on the 730 and CA programs, 730 products.. Here today, gone tomorrow. What irks me, is the TV stations don't have a disclaimer like you will see in the printed media. These so called miracle products cost the manufacturer tens of thousands to get onto these shows, and are nothing more than a paid advert, dressed up as a news article. How did that saying go........never let the truth spoil a good story.

[101RRS]

This new rule will take a lot of historic cars off the road if they have an accident. When taking out insurance for my Jag and 101, retaining the wreck in the event of a write-off was important to me as I would intend to resurrect both if the worst happen. I appreciate the issues of rebirthing etc but there is also collateral damage in that old and valuable cars will cease to exist.

Garry

[Bushie]

Not a media beat up

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/newsevents/downloads/minister_releases/100408_car_rebirthing.pdf

but it IS aimed at rebirthing, not law yet though.


Martyn

[Bigbjorn]

Not a media beat up

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/newsevents/downloads/minister_releases/100408_car_rebirthing.pdf

but it IS aimed at rebirthing, not law yet though.


Martyn

This is either a straight out media beat-up by the Minister's spin team, or it exposes lackadaisical and/or corrupt inspection by the authorised inspectors of repairable write-offs when presented for a pre-registration inspection. The press release mentions use of stolen parts. The inspectors in Brisbane insist you produce the invoices for parts used in refurbishing a repairable write-off. This is prevent use of stolen parts and to show that you have not refurbished parts and given them a coat of jam. Most suspension and steering parts can not legally be repaired.

[Scouse]

This new rule will take a lot of historic cars off the road if they have an accident. When taking out insurance for my Jag and 101, retaining the wreck in the event of a write-off was important to me as I would intend to resurrect both if the worst happen. I appreciate the issues of rebirthing etc but there is also collateral damage in that old and valuable cars will cease to exist.

GarryBeen there, done that with my 1948 Minor. It was written off in a T bone/rollover 2 months after I first restored it in 1989. I bought the wreck back & rebuilt it again.

I wonder if having it not declared as a write off by the insurance company (probably with some conditions to cover themselves) would be an option.

[Bundalene]

The only thing now is to get these regulations uniform across Australia. Presently there is a largish 4wd reseller here in Sydney, which has yards in Brisbane, Darwin etc, who buy a lot of vehicles at auction, repairs them and moves them interstate for re-sale.

In NSW once a vehicle is a written off repair and has been fixed and re-registered, this info appears on the registration paperwork for all to see. Once this vehicle is re-registered in some other States, the rego info disappears and there is no trace of the repair.

Another thing which is done by some of these people is to get a receipt from their mate at a wrecker for an item, stating the VIN etc and actually using parts from a stolen car. A receipt for the same part from the same VIN may finish up being used by many different repairers, as it would be near on impossible to track every part used in every repair.

Also, this would mean the closing down of the RTA insurance inspection repair centers - a NSW Government department actually downsizing?

Is there an election coming in NSW?

Erich

[steve_35]

By these new laws if i dent a guard on my VK commodore and it costs more than 1500 to fix
it will be classed as a write off

My car is worth a lot more than what they class as market value (not much)

Are the insurance companies going to come to my house and take it because its a write off
Or worse will they mark it as written off with the RTA and then ill never be able to reg it

Just for a dent in the guard ?????????????????????????????????????????????????

EDIT


After typing this post it occurred to me why they have done this

Two reasons

One
it will get older cars off the road a lot easier a dent and its gone for ever

Two
If you want to by a car you might have to buy new as there will be less secondhand cars available

Both will boost sales of new cars

[Tote]

Im sure Ms Kennealy would like to hear from you especially as it's an election year....
Contact the Premier | NSW Premier (http://www.premier.nsw.gov.au/contact)

Regards,
Tote

[PhilipA]

By these new laws if i dent a guard on my VK commodore and it costs more than 1500 to fix
it will be classed as a write off


Come on fellas, you are pulling a long bow here.

Who would comprehensively insure a VK????? LOL

For that matter I have given up insuring my 92RRC as my rule of thumb is if the policy is more than 10% of the value then it's not worth it.

If you have a prang in an old car and the damage is more than the car is worth and in the unlikely event of it's being insured it's simple . Do not claim and fix it yourself.
Yes I realize that if you are at fault and another car is involved blah blah , but that is what 3rd Party property is for.

IMHO many people insure old cars for inflated agreed values in the hope of being caught in a hail storm , and buying back the wreck, as they often end up ahead.
In the scheme of things, the good that the new law will do in sending a lot of ahem citizens of ME extraction broke and taking bombs off the road far outweighs some maybes.

Regards Philip A

[ScottW]

This new rule will take a lot of historic cars off the road if they have an accident.

The write-off register is only kept for cars less than 15 years old. Anything older and it's not mentioned, so the parts will keep coming. My father had a rangie catch fire (electrical - yeah really!) Insurance paid him out and he paid to keep the car (P76 engine with twin SU's etc) Re-wired the car and kept driving it around. The rego didn't even get cancelled through the whole ordeal so no need for an inspection.

[101RRS]

The write-off register is only kept for cars less than 15 years old.

That is not what I understand about the new rules.

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip>In the scheme of things, the good that the new law will do in sending a lot of ahem citizens of ME extraction broke and taking bombs off the road far outweighs some maybes.

Regards Philip APhillip

I believe you should retract that statement, it is inflamitory and I would suggest that there are rogues in most if not all ethno-cultural groups. Anglo-saxons included.

Just today it seems that the multitude of groups you mention (which includes Israelis) are the whipping boy of the moment.

Diana :(

[PhilipA]

Sorry Diana if it offends you but I believe that the statement is well grounded in fact.

Whether there are villains in all races is immaterial. IMHO based on experience and public statements by police and others car rebirthing is a specialty of ME immigrants and Australian born descendents/family groups.

If you are an aware person , I suggest that you take a look at Carsales .com and look at the percentage of distinctive names advertising enticing bargains ,vs the percent of population.


And I am afraid I should perhaps be more specific so not to include Israelis who I have never heard of rebirthing cars ( although they have stolen quite a few Australian native plant varieties). Oh! And Jordanians, Saudis,Syrians, Qatarese? UAE citizens, Bahrainis, Kuwaitis and Iraqis..

Perhaps I should be more specific again and exclude Christians, and only include those who were bought into Australia from small backward villages with clan tendencies to satisfy quotas for immigrants placed on the Immigration officers in Amman when not enough Christians applied!

Regards Philip A

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Phillip

It doesn't just offend me, it offends many. Some of the nicest people I know are ME to use your expression, the bloke across the road is ME and not Christian nor Israeli, apart from his appearence he is like every other Aussie bloke, loves his sport and going fishin. Totally different to the previous ME person who lived in the same house last year.

Not so many years ago it was the Italians and Yugoslavs who were the ones re-birthing cars, then it was the Vietnamese and there are the Russians, not so prevalent here YET! Do you think that the Moran's in Melbourne didn't have their finger in the rebirthing pie or are you suggesting that they were also ME?

I go back to my original statement, people of middle eastern cultures and extraction are the current flavour of the month to blame everything on.

It is criminals who rebirth cars and there are criminals in all cultures.

[Bundalene]

I attend many Pickles and Fowles auctions in Sydney.

FACT....

About 90 percent of the folk who attend these 2 auction houses are of ME appearence, and there is rarely a word of English spoken.

Also, almost ALL the transactions at the payment window are in cash.

I have no idea what happens to the cars purchased and quite frankly don't want to know, Everything may be legit'.

Enough said.

Erich

[Scouse]

I attend many Pickles and Fowles auctions in Sydney.

FACT....

About 90 percent of the folk who attend these 2 auction houses are of ME appearence, and there is rarely a word of English spoken.

Also, almost ALL the transactions at the payment window are in cash.

I have no idea what happens to the cars purchased and quite frankly don't want to know, Everything may be legit'.

Enough said.

ErichThe security needed to get into the auctions is amazing too. ID checks then through the metal detectors after quite a few bidders were threatened by other 'bidders' who wanted to buy the car/shell they just stripped.

[Bundalene]

The security needed to get into the auctions is amazing too. ID checks then through the metal detectors after quite a few bidders were threatened by other 'bidders' who wanted to buy the car/shell they just stripped.

There were so many identity and security problems, Fowles introduced iris scans at the auctions in Smithfield (which deal with NRMA vehicles). This was for a 6 month period about 18 months ago - no scan, no entry. These scans were later stopped for some unknown reason.

Even today you can see licences blatantly passed through the chainwire security fenced around the auction area. Both Pickles and Fowles auctions have a policy - no drivers licence or Australian passport, no entry.

Erich

[Bigbjorn]

I attend many Pickles and Fowles auctions in Sydney.

FACT....

About 90 percent of the folk who attend these 2 auction houses are of ME appearence, and there is rarely a word of English spoken.

Also, almost ALL the transactions at the payment window are in cash.

I have no idea what happens to the cars purchased and quite frankly don't want to know, Everything may be legit'.

Enough said.

Erich


All auction houses insist on suitable identification before giving out a bidder's number. This is so they can pursue for the money if you are the knock down buyer of a lot and then decide you either don't want it or have bid too much. You become the owner of the goods on the fall of the hammer and are liable to pay for the goods. Auction houses do not release the goods until paid for and have the legal authority to pursue for the unpaid amount.

As to cash payments. Private buyers overwhelmingly have to pay cash at auction for other than small amounts. Auctioneers do not accept private cheques, and most private buyers can not use eftpos or credit cards for larger amounts such as paying for a car. You can get your bank to transfer funds but if you want to take delivery of the goods then and there, you have to pay cash. I have seen quite a few business people pay large sums of cash at an auction office, possibly because they wish to fly under the radar, or maybe because their business is conducted mostly in cash. Scrap metal dealers have been seen by me to produce wads of cash that would choke a hippo. Scrappies usually appear as if they would not have enough to buy their next cask of fruity lexia. Appearances are deceiving.

[UncleHo]

G'day Brian Hjelm :)

You are sooo right, I have a neighbour that when he goes into town, just looks like a poor aged pensioner, but always carries about $6-7K in his pocket "just incase I see a bargain" bought some land a while back, $120+K estate agent contacted the bank,"is he good for this??" bank, "only that much, no problems" :) this person would have no trouble writting a 7 figure cheque, but as most farmers do they wear there work clothes into town often ;) yup! looks can be very decieving.

It's the sharp dressers that I don't trust ;)

cheers

[groucho]

I'll agree with Brian i know a few srappies that get around like the have the arse out of ther pants. But untill you see what they own!!!!!
Off subject I sold a
Mack truck with work back in 86 and one saturday
morning a fellow came round with $145.000 in a brown paper bag..:eek:

[Mick_Marsh]

And the GST was supposed to put a stop to the cash economy.

[Bigbjorn]

I'll agree with Brian i know a few srappies that get around like the have the arse out of ther pants. But untill you see what they own!!!!!
Off subject I sold a
Mack truck with work back in 86 and one saturday
morning a fellow came round with $145.000 in a brown paper bag..:eek:

About 1983 I sold a new front end loader to a client from a cane and prawn farming family, also trawlers, a couple of caravan parks and blocks of Gold coast holiday units. His normal dress was blue singlet, stubby shorts with the hip pocket half off, greasy towelling hat, bare feet. He produced a square kerosene tin with a school port handle riveted to the top and a plywood flap at one end. He pulled out $85,000 and only got a third of the way down the tin. I never found out whether that was his personal tin, or the family tin. I suspect the first.

[JDNSW]

Getting back to the original topic.

The new rules came into force at the beginning of January this year. Yesterday I was having a look round the RTA website for something else, and found this(Written-off vehicles (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/written_off_vehicles/index.html?hhid=wov)) it makes interesting reading.

There are virtually no exceptions - you can only reregister a written off car under a very few circumstances, such as it being a one off import, a first or last of line, and a few other minor exceptions, such as it being a historic vehicle, and here you have to be a member of a marque specific club. But for any of these to apply, you have to have owned the vehicle for five years at the time of the accident.

In view of the unrealistically low "market values" for older Landrovers, it seems that it is going to make comprehensive insurance impractical for these. And you still probably run the risk of someone else's insurance company writing it off if the accident is someone else's fault. Although it does occur to me that this will reduce the value of written off vehicles - so the amount of repairs before write-off will get higher. But it does not take a lot of damage to cost a lot - someone backed into my 110 recently, and I got a quote for their insurance company - over $700 for a dent about the size of your hand. Most of it is labour in disassembly and assembly - I was going to quote actual numbers, but I had better not in view of the fine print on the quote!

John

[Scouse]

I believe hail damage is also excluded from the statutory write off list. There was talk of it being off the list anyway - I'm sure Erich would know more.

[JDNSW]

Yes, I forgot to mention that - it is in the link.

John

[PhilipA]

I was playing tennis yesterday with my friend who is a car insurance consultant adjuster who negotiates between insurance companies and clients in difficult cases or where fraud is suspected.

He observed that the new legislation was probably responsible for the recent upsurge in carjacking cases, where the individuals involved in rebirthing were looking for a new source of income.

He speculated that the luxury cars would be exported to ( I am not game to say where) where they would be sold .

BTW it was he from personal experience told me of an M3 that was stolen and stripped, then written off . It was back on the road within one week when the auction buyer refitted all the stolen parts he had in his garage. The police received an anonymous tip on where the car was to be found.
Very elegant.
Apparently guns can be drawn when/if another person bids against the "succesful" bidder.
This should be stopped by the new legislation.
Regards Philip A

[IZN]

In view of the unrealistically low "market values" for older Landrovers, it seems that it is going to make comprehensive insurance impractical for these. And you still probably run the risk of someone else's insurance company writing it off if the accident is someone else's fault.

John

John,
You raise an interesting point. Comprehensive insurance was not worth for my Series 3 and with the new laws as you rightly said, it will be even more impractical.
I wonder what would happen in the scenario that you described, where the other part is at fault and their insurance wants to write-off your vehicle. Let's say, repair will cost $2.5K, the market value is $2K, but the car is worth way more than that (at least to the owner), can they 'force' you to write-off?

In this scenario, I don't have a contract with the other part's insurance where I have an 'agreed' value, so there must be guidelines/laws that govern this. Is anyone aware of how this works?

[abaddonxi]

Last car I had we were offered the car back (at a hefty price) before it went to wholesale auction. Didn't buy it, knew the vehicle too well.

I guessed that if I bought it back it would still be registered to me - rego would not have been cancelled and so not a WOV.

Anyone know if this is the case?

[JamesH]

I guessed that if I bought it back it would still be registered to me - rego would not have been cancelled and so not a WOV.

Anyone know if this is the case?

I crashed my 96 Defender on the beach. Luckily no drive train damage apart from chassis needing minor chiropractic work but alas the fire wall was creased. Write off. Bought the wreck back and repaired it. Yes had to do the full relicensing gig. New plates, pits etc. This was WA. you can check my gallery for pics. Thank God for bring allowed to repair it.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Homestar]

I think the days of the $2000 dunga are well and truly gone



Not around here. Just bought my Daughter a car to learn in - a 93 Pulsar - manual, RWC, 8 months reg - VGC inside and out - no rust or damage - not a dunga at all - $2000. Drives very well, and still has plently of life left in it.

If I wanted a dunga, but still without damage, I can buy a VN dunny door or equivilent Falcon for $200 with a month or 2 of rego left, that still goes fine - bodgey RWC $100 - all sorted. (I don't condone bodgey road worthies by the way in any shape of form, just making a point...)

2nd hand cars are worth nothing these days - still plently of undamaged bargains to be had.

[Bigbjorn]

Consider a less than honourable insurance company, pretty well all of them. Now a repairable write-off is worth a good bit more at auction than a statutory write-off. So, our company does not enter it onto the WVO in NSW where the new rules mandate it to be a statutory write-off, but in Qld. or Victoria as a repairable write-off, and, every so often sends a truckload or two to Qld. or Vic. for sale as a repairable write-off

[p38arover]

Consider a less than honourable insurance company, pretty well all of them. Now a repairable write-off is worth a good bit more at auction than a statutory write-off. So, our company does not enter it onto the WVO in NSW where the new rules mandate it to be a statutory write-off, but in Qld. or Victoria as a repairable write-off, and, every so often sends a truckload or two to Qld. or Vic. for sale as a repairable write-off

Sounds like a bloody good idea. That's not so shonky.

[Narangga]

Not sure that will/can happen much longer as I believe all states and territories are going to move to the same system.

[THE BOOGER]

John,
You raise an interesting point. Comprehensive insurance was not worth for my Series 3 and with the new laws as you rightly said, it will be even more impractical.
I wonder what would happen in the scenario that you described, where the other part is at fault and their insurance wants to write-off your vehicle. Let's say, repair will cost $2.5K, the market value is $2K, but the car is worth way more than that (at least to the owner), can they 'force' you to write-off?

In this scenario, I don't have a contract with the other part's insurance where I have an 'agreed' value, so there must be guidelines/laws that govern this. Is anyone aware of how this works?

You dont have to accept what the other persons insurance coy offers you can still sue in the small claims court for what you think the car is worth or what the repairs will be only one quote is needed not three as some will tell you costs around $100 if you represent yourself more if you take a solictitor:o
If its your insurance it is different:(

[Narangga]

Consider a less than honourable insurance company, pretty well all of them. Now a repairable write-off is worth a good bit more at auction than a statutory write-off. So, our company does not enter it onto the WVO in NSW where the new rules mandate it to be a statutory write-off, but in Qld. or Victoria as a repairable write-off, and, every so often sends a truckload or two to Qld. or Vic. for sale as a repairable write-off


Sounds like a bloody good idea. That's not so shonky.


Not sure that will/can happen much longer as I believe all states and territories are going to move to the same system.

It's this

http://www.nt.gov.au/transport/mvr/vehiclestandards/infobulletins/ibv54.pdf

that makes me think so.

[Bigbjorn]

What would be the legality if an insurer "declines to repair" and pays market value and receives ownership. Could they then not enter the vehicle on the WOVR as they have not declared it a "write-off", and sell it "as is, where is", caveat emptor, as a damaged vehicle, not as a write-off?

[101RRS]

What would be the legality if an insurer "declines to repair" and pays market value and receives ownership.

That is a write-off so legally it has to go on the register.

Garry

[ScottW]

The second Question in the FAQ on the Gov website:

Q. What types of vechicles do the laws apply to?

A. The laws apply to NSW light vehicles up to 15 years old.