Series 1 Rear axle conversion

[groucho]

From Scallops dramas with the series rear axle,most will know of the fully
floating conversion. Fitting a 2a axle is not ideal as the track will be a little wider. So, get a spindle from a fully floating rear. They bolt straight on
fit backing plate and brake set up.......







https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/1973.jpg

[groucho]

Get a worn drive flange, machine to fit outer flange to make spacer
you will need longer bolts, a bit hard to come by.......
and use a pair of series 2 axles. and job done...........









https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/1972.jpg

[Lotz-A-Landies]

If you are really keen, Barry Ward from Hi-Tough Engineering (former Maxi-Drive Axles) will make you a pair of Hi-Tough series 1 track width halfshafts. The only change is that the outer end will be manufactured with 24 splines, which only means that you need to use Salisbury diff/109 drive flanges or Hi-Tough 24 spline flanges.

Diana

[groucho]

If you are really keen, Barry Ward from Hi-Tough Engineering (former Maxi-Drive Axles) will make you a pair of Hi-Tough series 1 track width halfshafts. The only change is that the outer end will be manufactured with 24 splines, which only means that you need to use Salisbury diff/109 drive flanges or Hi-Tough 24 spline flanges.

Diana

That would be a better option than the stock series axles.
Just toying around with the idea at present.......

[JDNSW]

That would be a better option than the stock series axles.
Just toying around with the idea at present.......

And quite a lot more expensive I expect - particularly if you happen to have a complete Series 2a/3 rear axle and some old drive flanges lying around. But still a better job in the end.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I seem to remember that Mal Story used to keep a small supply of the S1s in stock. Barry may do the same.

Yes the axles are an expensive addition, but still a more reliable option than using 40 + year old series 2 halfshafts.

Diana

[Col.Coleman]

Why not just get a fully floating series 1 axle?

Both my LWB's have them, and I know where heaps more are. I am only leaving the semi on my '86 as it is a vehicle with providence.

CC

[bobslandies]

Why not just get a fully floating series 1 axle?

Both my LWB's have them, and I know where heaps more are. I am only leaving the semi on my '86 as it is a vehicle with providence.

CC

Because if you break a Series 1 fully floating axle you will have the same problem. They are shorter (and rarer), hence Diana's post and as groucho has said you can use a 2A/3 axle that is about 5/8" longer (because of the wider track housing) and a spacer and longer bolts. Socket head unbrako types were used regularly. There are plenty of 2A/3 axles available.
Alternatively, if there is enough length on the inner spline it can be shortened the required amount so as not to touch the cross-pin in the hemishere. This will not work for all axles available over the years.

Bob

[groucho]

Why not just get a fully floating series 1 axle?

Both my LWB's have them, and I know where heaps more are. I am only leaving the semi on my '86 as it is a vehicle with providence.

CC

The problem is if you have a 80" with narrow rear springs
What are you going to do ? replace the spring hangers or
re model the wider saddles on the later diffs.
That conversion gives the same track as the original series 1's
with only a bolt up application..... You can use later hubs with the bigger studs too.......

[Col.Coleman]

I thought the point of the thread was to convert to fully floating after seeing the trouble scallops has had with removing the backing plate and collars from his semi floating ones, not about breaking axles.

For the trouble you are going to, it would be just as easy to source a genuine series 1 one. Rear axle assemblies don't tend to rust away that often, and if you know where to look, there are plenty about. I don't invision doing anything in my series one's where I would break an axle.

I think what groucho has posted is a great idea, if you need to go that way. But in reality, how often do you do this?(Change semi floating rear bearings)+ My axles have lasted over 50 years so far doing far more work than I am ever going to put them through.

CC

PS. I am also talking from the point of view that I have several spare sets of both types:p

PPS. I'm to big to fit in an '80 so I don't care:D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip>
For the trouble you are going to, it would be just as easy to source a genuine series 1 one. Rear axle assemblies don't tend to rust away that often, and if you know where to look, there are plenty about. I don't invision doing anything in my series one's where I would break an axle.
<snip>Interesting assertions you have there CC!

Given that fully floating were not an option until the 88 & 109 models (including the later 107 SW) where do you suggest that all these as you suggest "plenty" of genuine series 1 fully floating half-shafts would be?

In recent years or at least the last five years, I have only seen 1 half-shaft not already fitted to a running Series 1.

[Col.Coleman]

Interesting assertions you have there CC!

Given that fully floating were not an option until the 88 & 109 models (including the later 107 SW) where do you suggest that all these as you suggest "plenty" of genuine series 1 fully floating half-shafts would be?

In recent years or at least the last five years, I have only seen 1 half-shaft not already fitted to a running Series 1.

Hmmm....lets see.

My 107
Chassis# 277600179
Engine# 170600838
Gearbox#170602041
F/Axle# 270600829
R/Axle# 270601145

Have a look at those numbers. It is an early '56 build, CKD 107. It is also fitted with full floaters on the correct axle(narrow springs), with correct track. I didn't fit them either.

All you need to do, is find a rotted series 1, with full floaters and buy the rear axle. That's how I got my spare ones. I'll post a count of how many I see on Sunday when I bring my '54 home that I am chopping up for parts.

CC

PS. And although, apparently not an option. Plenty were retro fitted over their lifetime, as broken semi floaters are a PITA in the field. Hence one of the primary reasons for this thread. S/wagons are apparently rare too, but 2 just popped up in Darwin again.

[bobslandies]

This kit # 276254 was introduced in May 1957 and consisted of axles and hub assemblies.

"The latest type reinforced axle case must be used on all 86, 88, 107 basic, early 107 Station Wagon and early 109 Land Rovers when the fully floating rear axle shafts are fitted.
The reinforced rear axle case, which can be identified by means of the channel welded under the long side of the casing, is NOT PART OF THE KIT AND MUST be ordered separately"

Source: Item 305, Rover Service Newsletter No 79, May 1957.

This might explain it.

Bob

[back_in]

Hi Bob
interesting your comments
Apart from 107 SW
I did not or was not aware that the floating axle was available to earlier vehicles
thank you for the info
cheers
Ian

[Col.Coleman]

I'm pretty sure, I don't have the channel welded under the diff. will check in the light.

I was originally pretty miffed, when I got it, as it didn't have semi's like all the other 107's you see.

It didn't take long for me to form an alternative view.:D

I still think Groucho's idea is very good. But I'm stocking up on FF S1 1/2 shafts.;)

CC

[Col.Coleman]

This kit # 276254 was introduced in May 1957 and consisted of axles and hub assemblies.

"The latest type reinforced axle case must be used on all 86, 88, 107 basic, early 107 Station Wagon and early 109 Land Rovers when the fully floating rear axle shafts are fitted.
The reinforced rear axle case, which can be identified by means of the channel welded under the long side of the casing, is NOT PART OF THE KIT AND MUST be ordered separately"

Source: Item 305, Rover Service Newsletter No 79, May 1957.

This might explain it.

Bob

So was this the introduction of the Full Floating Hub conversion, or the axle housing strengthening kit?

Reads to me like the strenghtening kit, which would mean it is an engineering fix, to a problem arisen from fitting FF hubs to vehicles prior to this service bulletin.

CC

[bobslandies]

CC,
Here's your answer:

Source: Rover Service Newsletter No 68 June 1956

"MODELS: 1956-7 Land Rover 109 Basic and 107 Station Wagon
MODIFICATION: Reinforced casing
PART NUMBERS: 109 Models
Rear Axle assembly 272198
Rear axle casing 272197
107 Station Wagon
Rear axle assembly 272196
Rear axle casing 272194
COMMENCING NUMBERS:
109 Models 121700835 onwards
107 Station Wagon 131700079
REMARKS: The rear axle casing on the 109 and 107 Station Wagon has been reinforced by means of a channel section welded under the long side of the axle casing. Early and late type axle assemblies and axle casings are interchangeable.
Service rear replacements for all Land Rover 109 models, all 107 models with 11 in. brakes and the 107 Station Wagon will eventually be of the reinforced type."

Pre-dates the fully floating axle introduction. Will have a look for the Newsletter introducing the fully floating axles tomorrow - raining outside :o and it's in the garage.:)

The Station Wagon rear casing is different in that the spring perches are on outriggers rather than being directly under the chassis rails.

Bob

[groucho]

All you need to do, is find a rotted series 1, with full floaters and buy the rear axle.
All good it theory but....... Their wern't that many of them to start with.
The way i described is an easy fix with an eazyer option of halfshafts.
And Yes the 2/3 half shafts are becomming harder to get too.........

[dmax]

Hi all,

New member here, looking at possible buying a 1975 series 3 Land Rover Petrol with camper on the back

Are the axle upgrade your talking about, can they fit this series of Land Rover ?

Are they reasonable reliable ?

Anything I should know ?

Cheers Jason

[JDNSW]

The axle upgrades discussed above only apply to Series 1 Landrovers, i.e. pre-1958.

If the one you are looking at is a Series 3, 1975, presumably a 109 since it has a camper on the back, it already has a salisbury rear axle, which is two upgrades past the ones discussed above (to full floating and to salisbury, which happened with the introduction of the Series 2 in 1958 and Series 3 in 1971).

The salisbury rear axle fitted as standard to Series 3 109s is, I believe, a British licensed Dana, and is very unlikely to give any issues unless totally neglected or grossly overloaded.

While it is entirely possible to fit the "wrong" axle as a complete unit across a wide range of Series Landrovers, a backward step seems rather unlikely - the reliability of the rear axles fitted to Series 3 109s is so high that a swap is extremely unlikely.

The only other axle that is a bare possibility is the ENV axle, only fitted to early One Ton models and some armoured cars. Butin over sixty years of owning, working on and examining Series Landrovers, I have never seen one!

[dmax]

Thanks John