Replaced broken fuel filter housing on puma now can't get fuel up into the motor

[pc3]

Folks I put the new housing on, tipped some diesel into the filter prior to screwing it back on to try and help get it sucking fuel into the motor but nothing. Turned the ignition on and off heaps of times then cranked it over in an attempt to get her going any more and I will drain the battery. What else can I do. It's driving me mad After the tow on Friday and now with new filter housing attached she won't go

[alien]

Folks I put the new housing on, tipped some diesel into the filter prior to screwing it back on to try and help get it sucking fuel into the motor but nothing. Turned the ignition on and off heaps of times then cranked it over in an attempt to get her going any more and I will drain the battery. What else can I do. It's driving me mad After the tow on Friday and now with new filter housing attached she won't go

Is there a fuel bleeding sequence in the owners book?
Some thing like key on for x, turn off and repeat x times, full throtle and crank till it fires.(TD5 has this so?).

[pc3]

Is there a fuel bleeding sequence in the owners book?
Some thing like key on for x, turn off and repeat x times, full throtle and crank till it fires.(TD5 has this so?).

Allan there is nothing in the manual about this other than don't let it run out and if it does you will need 4 gallons in the tank to start it. My fuel tank us full So no dramas there

[alien]

Only other things I can think of is to check your conections again.
One might be sucking air?
Silly I know but are they all on the right spots?(check agaist your pic maybe).
Drop the filter and see if the fuel has gone, might have to refill it a few times.


Any one know the bleeding method for this beast???

My thought is turn the key till the pump stops, turn off key and repeat till the pump noise changes(slows up,works harder).

[one_iota]

A special priming tool is required:

Links and Downloads Manager - Australian Land Rover Owners (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=7&id=86)

discussed here:

Defender2 - View topic - Puma fuel bleeding pump (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic516.html)

Not so simple with out the right tool.

[pc3]

Thanks Al my friend that put the housing back on is a mechanic so that parts right. I will drop the filter tommorow again. It's very hard almost negligble in picking a pump noise with turning the ignition on and off. Wife is now giving me a hard time saying I should have bought a normal car...... Picked up Friday and now not driveable tried explaining all new diesels would be the same but all she sees is a stranded Defender.

[pc3]

A special priming tool is required:

Links and Downloads Manager - Australian Land Rover Owners (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=7&id=86)

discussed here:

Defender2 - View topic - Puma fuel bleeding pump (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic516.html)

Not so simple with out the right tool.

Thankyou for that. I will have to wait and save to get it towed to a service center by the looks of it.

[Bushie]

Thankyou for that. I will have to wait and save to get it towed to a service center by the looks of it.

Another nail in the coffin.

Great if you are out in the scrub :mad::mad::mad::mad::twisted:


Martyn

[stig0000]

another happy thread about pumas;)

it even takes abit to start even with the hand pump,

[Blknight.aus]

looks like its time for the old stand by of pressurizing the fuel tank and dropping the return line.

gee a brand new vehicle that requires 1960's tricks to fix.

youd have thought that ford would have learnt about this from when the engine was in the transit. letting it go into a vehicle thats going to get in situation where the fuel system could pick up air (ie off road angles and low fuel) is just criminal.

the backup stand by trick (which is an old detroit trick) is to crack the self sealing fitting by opening it with a screw driver while the engine is off and then cranking it (or letting the electric pump run) till the fuel runs out clear(ish)

[stig0000]

i think when ford got landrover they dident even look at the defender and what its used for,
they just sead
'witch engine is the cheapest to fit,, that one!!,, lets put that one in,,, it works in the transit,, it will work in the defender', ;);):mad:

[SloMoBro]

I had the same problem with mine. Disconnected the fuel line before the fuel pump, then pressurised the fuel tank with the air compressor, which pushed fuel through the lines.Used a plastic bag to seal the tank. Reconnect fuel lines and started straight up. Happy days.

[SloMoBro]

Defender2 - View topic - Puma fuel bleeding pump (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic516.html)
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic1504.html
Have a look here for more info.

[one_iota]

Thanks Pumice I hadn't read that. Dave is right again: There is always a way to get things going.

For those nay-sayers the chance of this happening in the bush is only remote....you are not likley to be changing the fuel filter. You can run out of fuel but the engine management system will shut the engine down before you get to the point where you have to prime the system. If you don't have enough fuel to proceed you'll be stuck just like anyone without fuel.

[pc3]

Thanks Pumice I hadn't read that. Dave is right again: There is always a way to get things going.

For those nay-sayers the chance of this happening in the bush is only remote....you are not likley to be changing the fuel filter. You can run out of fuel but the engine management system will shut the engine down before you get to the point where you have to prime the system. If you don't have enough fuel to proceed you'll be stuck just like anyone without fuel.

Folks my 130 goes to ARB tommorow for the first part of fit out, they say they can bleed it....organised a tow there and am going to get them to show me how to do it in the bush. I'm going to get an on board compressor fitted at some stage.

This could happen to any of the new breed of electronic 4x4's I imgaine. And from what I can tell you can not buy a "Non Electric" 4x4 anymore new off the shelf.

At the moment in my life If I fell into a bucket full of nipples I'd come out sucking my thumb ;)

[JamesH]

For those nay-sayers the chance of this happening in the bush is only remote....you are not likley to be changing the fuel filter. You can run out of fuel but the engine management system will shut the engine down before you get to the point where you have to prime the system. If you don't have enough fuel to proceed you'll be stuck just like anyone without fuel.

You might want to change the filter if you get some dirty fuel. Ive known a 300tdi to have lost power out in the bush and a quick swap of the fuel filter fixed the problem. I don't know if this situation is different for modern computer run engines.

[TimNZ]

Hi pc3, like the others have said, you need to use the special bleeding tool. Unlike the TD5 there is no in-tank fuel pump that can be used to prime the fuel system (the pump on the engine does all the work). On the bright side however, there is no expensive electric hp fuel pump to fail.

Priming pump:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/1613.jpg

[pc3]

Hi pc3, like the others have said, you need to use the special bleeding tool. Unlike the TD5 there is no in-tank fuel pump that can be used to prime the fuel system (the pump on the engine does all the work). On the bright side however, there is no expensive electric hp fuel pump to fail.

Priming pump:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/1613.jpg
Would a ford dealership have this tool ?

Will ARB be able to get it going without this tool just by using some compressed air method ?

[pc3]

Melbourne LR techos say you need the pump........air wont work as it has check valves it needs negtaive pressure rather than positve pressure to bleed it ??

Yet owners here say the compressed airethod works :confused:

[TimNZ]

Would a ford dealership have this tool ?

I'm guessing they would have a similar system, (for the Transit)

Will ARB be able to get it going without this tool just by using some compressed air method ?

I doubt it........




Melbourne LR techos say you need the pump........air wont work as it has check valves it needs negtaive pressure rather than positve pressure to bleed it ??

Yet owners here say the compressed airethod works :confused:

Personally I'd get LR to do it, the fuel system has so many expensive parts. If something goes wrong the last thing you want is to be presented with a bill.

Cheers,

Tim

[n plus one]

Chance favours the prepared mind.

Build this:

Defender2 - View topic - Puma fuel bleeding pump (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic516.html)

Save yourself some dough...

[pc3]

Personally I'd get LR to do it, the fuel system has so many expensive parts. If something goes wrong the last thing you want is to be presented with a bill.

Cheers,

Tim

That would mean a tow at my expense to Melbourne or Geelong.

Spoke with Ford, they said just take of fuel return hose from pump and suck it through, no need for the tool................tehy were arware the PUMA motor was the same as the Transit engine. They said this method works and tehy have never had to bother buying the tool (which is the same tool as in the LR 310-110 hand pump)

[one_iota]

pc3

That's a handy bit of info to know.

Although the taste of diesel is probably a small price to pay for the $300+ the hand pump costs.


SPX Catalog - Hand Pressure Pump with Adapter Kit Hand Pressure Pump with Adapter Kit 310-110A (http://www.spxtools-shop.com/jlr/product_info.php?info=p12828&cPath=12667_12988_16845_16854.html)

The special part is designed to service not only the Defender and the Ford transit but also a host of other Duratorq engined vehicles:

[Blknight.aus]

Melbourne LR techos say you need the pump........air wont work as it has check valves it needs negtaive pressure rather than positve pressure to bleed it ??

Yet owners here say the compressed airethod works :confused:

urmmm, they are spinning you a line...

the tank must be at a higher relative pressure to the pumps pickup or the fuel isnt going to go from the tank to the pump.



You can run out of fuel but the engine management system will shut the engine down before you get to the point where you have to prime the system.

not always...

what happens when you run the fuel tank low and expose the pick up on a long down hill run?

or what happens if you do happen to get a load of contaminated fuel and need to replace the filter and flush the lines?

what happens if you prang the filter or split a fuel line?

[miky]

When sucking (fuel that is) I use some clear tubing so I can see it coming before I get a mouth full.

Should be simple to do.

[one_iota]

<snip>

not always...

what happens when you run the fuel tank low and expose the pick up on a long down hill run?

or what happens if you do happen to get a load of contaminated fuel and need to replace the filter and flush the lines?

what happens if you prang the filter or split a fuel line?

and what happens if you smash the fuel cooler (which is located on the NS inside chassis rail) driving over a stick.

All these things can happen and probably many more.

So what have we learned:

Spend $300 on a special tool or suck diesel through a tube. :)

[TimNZ]

<snip>

So what have we learned:

Spend $300 on a special tool or suck diesel through a tube. :)

Ha! :D Well put Mahn!

[lardy]

Thanks Al my friend that put the housing back on is a mechanic so that parts right. I will drop the filter tommorow again. It's very hard almost negligble in picking a pump noise with turning the ignition on and off. Wife is now giving me a hard time saying I should have bought a normal car...... Picked up Friday and now not driveable tried explaining all new diesels would be the same but all she sees is a stranded Defender.

Ah bless, tell her to "chill honey bunny" it worked in pulp fiction !!

[abaddonxi]

Suck diesel!

Well it is a Defender.

[pc3]

ARB got it going now worries :D, I just phoned them and asked, just took a little while to suck the diesel through.

Now there fitting a little fruit............I asked for my Rock Sliders to be fitted first saves other car doors banging into your panels :cool:

Then I think there hooking up the 130 litre Auxillary tank and doing the snorkel.

[disco2hse]

Changed my mind :}

[miky]

ARB got it going now worries :D, I just phoned them and asked, just took a little while to suck the diesel through.


pc3
Can you confirm that they literally sucked the fuel. Like put a mouth over the pipe and just sucked, or did they use a pump or tool etc.?

[pc3]

pc3
Can you confirm that they literally sucked the fuel. Like put a mouth over the pipe and just sucked, or did they use a pump or tool etc.?

No they used a device to do it, Monday week I'll no more as it's back to get the bar etc fitted and mechanic had left for the day. The mechanic is a former 110 owner and he loves defenders, he's the guy who actually helped me make the decision to buy a 130 over hilux

[pc3]

Shes Back !!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/911.jpg

[craigtech]

If you want to save yourself stress about losing fuel in the future - eg if you break a line, filter, or just run out....
fit a rubber bulb in the suction line in the engine bay. Freelander TD4 has one. You can get them from a marine shop/chandlery as they use them on outboards.
Squeeze them and they act as a pump - leave them alone and the fuel pump in the vehicle can just suck fuel through them as if they were not there.

[n plus one]

Shes Back !!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/911.jpg

And the full details of the return line priming process are???

[Nera Donna]

If you want to save yourself stress about losing fuel in the future - eg if you break a line, filter, or just run out....
fit a rubber bulb in the suction line in the engine bay. Freelander TD4 has one. You can get them from a marine shop/chandlery as they use them on outboards.
Squeeze them and they act as a pump - leave them alone and the fuel pump in the vehicle can just suck fuel through them as if they were not there.

The Workshop foreman at my Land Rover dealer showed me the same thing. An out board motor, fuel priming pump. He told me thats all they use.
I reackon if you suck the fuel up with your mouth, the beer might start to tast funny. :p

[kentkal]

I have replaced the oem fuel filter with a 5 micron filter and housing with hand primer, works a treat. Also replaced plastic fuel lines with rubber fuel hose and got rid of fuel cooler altogether as this was the first casuality on my first outing in the bush. Cooling system is in for some mods soon aswell.

[pc3]

And the full details of the return line priming process are???

Guys they used a Break Bleeding machine to pull the fuel through...........thye said it took 2.5 hrs @ $77.50 per hour did I get touched in the Bot Bot :(

I am also interested in this works been done to "rid the fuel sytem of plastic etc." with rubber fuel hose...............so you can get rid of that contraption and filter off the chassis rail for a tougher set up ?

[Blknight.aus]

NOOOOOOOOO....

diesel and rubber are not friends.....

stay with the plastic lines.

and yes you got touched 2.5 hours to simply bleed a diesel fuel system is a rorte Especially if they happen to have all the specialist tools for the job.

Diagnose, repair and bleed could take 2 hours depending on what was wrong with it.

[pc3]

Yeh I thought as much....................unless you get these rouges on FPA's its DAMN hard, caue I cant prove they did not spend that amount of time on it.

[n plus one]

If you want to save yourself stress about losing fuel in the future - eg if you break a line, filter, or just run out....
fit a rubber bulb in the suction line in the engine bay. Freelander TD4 has one. You can get them from a marine shop/chandlery as they use them on outboards.
Squeeze them and they act as a pump - leave them alone and the fuel pump in the vehicle can just suck fuel through them as if they were not there.

Do you mean fit to the return line (to the tank), or the incoming line (from the tank)?

Good idea I reckon'...

[kentkal]

Rubber fuel lines are ok if you use the correct ones (they have been using rubber fuel lines on machines for years). Has anyone else removed the fuel cooler? I have not noticed any difference in performance at all.

[pc3]

Rubber fuel lines are ok if you use the correct ones (they have been using rubber fuel lines on machines for years). Has anyone else removed the fuel cooler? I have not noticed any difference in performance at all.

Is the fuel cooler the silver contraption on the inslde of the chassis rail passenger side ??

Why would you want to remove it ?

[kentkal]

Just another unnessessary thing to cause grief, what with coolant lines running all around the place just waiting for a stick to jump up and wipe them off (1st hand experience of this). Even with a protection plate!!!

[pc3]

Just another unnessessary thing to cause grief, what with coolant lines running all around the place just waiting for a stick to jump up and wipe them off (1st hand experience of this). Even with a protection plate!!!

Whats its purpose. or what was it supposed to improve ? is it the silver contraption I mentioned earlier ?

[TimNZ]

Hi PC3, yes it's the silver contraption on the LH chassis rail :) It's there to remove excessive heat from the fuel, after it has been returned from the high pressure fuel pump, before it goes back into the fuel tank.

If you are worried about it Devon 4x4 make a guard:

Devon 4x4 Off Road - Defender 2007> fuel cooler guard : D44DEFCOOLERGUAR : Off Road Equipment from Devon 4x4 (http://www.devon4x4.com/products_a/p1226c236/0/defender-2007-fuel-cooler-guard.html)

Check with your dealer before fitting one though as it may affect your warranty.

Cheers,

[pc3]

Hi PC3, yes it's the silver contraption on the LH chassis rail :) It's there to remove excessive heat from the fuel, after it has been returned from the high pressure fuel pump, before it goes back into the fuel tank.

If you are worried about it Devon 4x4 make a guard:

Devon 4x4 Off Road - Defender 2007> fuel cooler guard : D44DEFCOOLERGUAR : Off Road Equipment from Devon 4x4 (http://www.devon4x4.com/products_a/p1226c236/0/defender-2007-fuel-cooler-guard.html)

Check with your dealer before fitting one though as it may affect your warranty.

Cheers,

Thanks for that..........why is not just going from the tank to the motor via the pump, probably a stupid ? I know.

[TimNZ]

Hi PC3, the fuel does go from the tank straight to the engine. It only goes through the fuel cooler, (if it's too hot), on the return line from the engine back to the fuel tank.

Cheers,

[pc3]

Hi PC3, the fuel does go from the tank straight to the engine. It only goes through the fuel cooler, (if it's too hot), on the return line from the engine back to the fuel tank.

Cheers,

Well I have learned something..........fule goes from the tank to the motor and then goes back again.............which means you should only ever have to put fuel in your tank once, I now need to start a thread "Another PUMA problem mine uses Fuel" as mine needs to be filled occasionaly :D

I thought all the fuel was used when it got to the motor.

[TimNZ]

Must be a common problem but my car needs filling ocassionally too!

Here is a pic of the fuel system:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/10/881.jpg

A: 110
B: 90
1: Fuel Cooler
2: Fuel Filter
3: Fuel Tank

Cheers,