Puma warranty issues

[Marty110]

My 2010 Puma has an ARB OME 50mm suspension kit. Landrover Australia have stated this negates my driveline warranty. I have had the rear diff pinion seal replaced by them once as a 'gesture of goodwill'. It has gone again (10K) as well as the rear transfer case seal which has drenched the handbrake shoes with oil. LRA have refused to fix these as they blame it on the suspension. The transfer seal was the subject of a warranty recall for this very issue that is affecting mine - they still wont do it. I had the vehicle assessed by the RAA techs who have said the suspension is not responsible and LRA should fix it - LRA still refuse. Anyone else out there had their warranty denied for fitting a non standard suspension? Any suggestions or lawyers? Already under warranty I have had the brake vacuum pump, front diff and rear pinion seal replaced and switches on the dash replaced that were faulty. Now I have leaking rear transfer seal and diff pinion and they wont do anything - very frustrating. See the photo of the rear driveshaft uni joint angle taken on level ground - would this cause damage, I think not neither do the RAA techs - what do you think?

[Marty110]

Sorry heres the photos

[abaddonxi]

Check this out-
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/109899-help-anyone-raised-puma-big-trouble.html

[rick130]

LRA are just trying to get out of it, there is no way a small lift, any lift for that matter will affect the diff pinion seal.

If you have the RAA onside approach your state Consumer Affairs office, that might make LRA take some action.

[juddy]

I think this is iffy ground, but LR will always play the card of anyone fitting non, standard parts, will therefore not have related problems covered by there warranty. I am not saying this is fair or not, it just covers them, however, would the same apply if LR fitted you a ARB bar ( to which they do as LR no longer offer one ) and say you have a front suspension issue, and they say they would not fix it under warrenty as the bar may have played a part in this.

Are the ARB parts, authorised by LR for use?????

Can you find out if this is a common problem with the puma, and thus prove your upgrade was not at fault

[miky]

I have said this elsewhere:

When I ordered and paid a deposit for my 110 back in January (delivered in June) I specifically asked about adding stuff and warranty issues.

ARB bar and Warn winch; OK.
ARB long range tank; OK
The other tank that fits behind the right rear wheel where they drill a hole in the existing tank; No
After market suspension (I didn't specify what); No
LR heavy duty suspension to counteract bar and winch weight; OK

I got them to fit the LR snorkel since I was worried about warranty issues if I fitted a non LR one myself. Any problem with the common rail system is a VERY expensive exercise.

All of that said... these very points have been made many times in this and other forums. This is why I joined this and other forums specifically to learn about possible warranty issues.

I do feel for those people who, through no real fault of their own, have fallen foul of warranty issues.
Lets face it, we all (surely) at some time or another have had to take the "experts" word for something that we know nothing about.

[Scallops]

I
The other tank that fits behind the right rear wheel where they drill a hole in the existing tank; No


Funny - My dealer explicitly told me it WAS OK to fit the Opposite Lock gravity fed fuel tank (this is the one that sits behind the driver's rear wheel). :eek:

[rick130]

I'd like to see proper legal advise, but IMO if you had uni binding that would be grounds for no warranty but a pinion seal ??

That's just running away from an obligation and using a poor excuse to do so.

BTW, did you measure the change in height between the bump stops re the stock and OME springs ?

I'd bet it's less height difference than when fitting the HD rear setup, ie. the old 330lb/in mains and 140lb/in inners, or whatever variable rate rear spring they now use on the 130 with the secondary inner spring.

If it measures the same or less I'd be asking for a 'please explain ?'

[scott oz]

For LR to deny any warranty claim they need to prove that the work you did is the likely cause or contributing factor. Generally manufactures do this by simply denying the warranty claim after one of their mechanics (usually a dealer) has looked at the vehicle.

This now puts you in the position of having to prove LR wrong and you need experts to do this.

If you haven’t already I’d be asking LR to state that the cause of your problems is the suspension lift. Then I’d take it to ARB and ask them to fix the current and long term problem.

If/when ARB refuse and you were in NSW I’d then go the consumer affairs tribunal it cost me some years ago $50. No lawyers but you do need an engineer (RAA?) to support your case.

And let the Tribunial decide if ARB fix it or LR. If ARB were smart they may even support you. Certainly LR’s noted problems with the seal will go against them.

Note in our case some years ago we were arguing that an engine rebuild hadn’t been done. Before the case could go to the tribunal we were forced to have the engine stripped down $1,000 engage an engineer for a report and tribunal appearance $1,500.

We won the case. But time, money & experts. “Your” opinion on the cause will not count unless you’re an engineer/mechanic

[spudboy]

How much is it to fix the rear seal (i.e. if you had to buy the part and get it fitted)?

Might be quicker and cheaper then going the tribunal/legal route. Mrs Spud works for a Lawyer and she sees people's money removed from their wallets at prodigious rates for things that never should have got that far.

Not saying it's right, but it might be the least painful way to go.

Who are you dealing with at Solitaire? I have had good 'results' with Kevin (who seems to work for Jaguar) but he has organised a few things for me on my Range Rover that they were 'wavering' on.

HTH
David

[Marty110]

thanks for all the advice and comments and yes I should've asked LRA before modding the car - lesson learnt. I am in the process of getting reports from independant sources and yes it would likely be cheaper to just fix the car BUT I have a real moral and ethical issue with car dealers who try to get out of their obligations especially when the rear trans seal was the subject of a warranty recall. Because mine has aftermarket suspension this recognised warranty problem is suddenly caused by the suspension? I thought I was doing the right thing with this new car (the first time I have ever bought new in 35 years) by taking it strait to the experts to be fitted out from scratch as they have done the hard yards in product development etc. My trusty old Defender I did it all myself and never had a problem - oh well nothing like learning the hard way......

[Allan]

thanks for all the advice and comments and yes I should've asked LRA before modding the car - lesson learnt. I am in the process of getting reports from independant sources and yes it would likely be cheaper to just fix the car BUT I have a real moral and ethical issue with car dealers who try to get out of their obligations especially when the rear trans seal was the subject of a warranty recall. Because mine has aftermarket suspension this recognised warranty problem is suddenly caused by the suspension? I thought I was doing the right thing with this new car (the first time I have ever bought new in 35 years) by taking it strait to the experts to be fitted out from scratch as they have done the hard yards in product development etc. My trusty old Defender I did it all myself and never had a problem - oh well nothing like learning the hard way......

I now think ARB have very few experts in anything Land Rover. All they know is how to take your money. In W.A 10 or so years ago they had staff who specialised in specific vehicles and you would be referred to these people. Now as Your 4x4 show the "little bit off lift" is all they know. The consequences of this is what we suffer.

Allan

[Gav110]

Agreed Allan - I find them appalling to deal with unless you have a Land Cruiser or Patrol. Even my brother in law has had issues with them not giving a flying about his Navara. Go with a Landie specialist; or select outlets - apparently OL South Sydney is very knowledgable

[Marty110]

OK - so I'm waiting to hear back from LRA re a final decision - Solitaire have actually been helpful in that their new workshop manager has said he agrees with me and has asked his techs to do a tech report to LRA in support of my claim - wait and see. Meanwhile if LRA rule against doing the warranty work, I have a letter from them stating outright that the ARB OME suspension has caused the problem so I think I will get the work done independantly and forward my bills to ARB OME and let them fight with LRA over it??? I have sent a copy of LRA's letter to ARB OME and am waiting to hear back from their engineer, after all here we have LRA stating that OME's product is causing damage to their vehicles, I wonder what OME will respond with?? Will let you know.....

[scott oz]

Marty110

Your 110% right there are some things were the principal is important.

I think if you can get ARB to help you it will make it so much easier.

I had a Sidcrome tommy bar snap on me. You know the one with the life time guarantee?

I was near a Sidcrome supplier so thought I’d take it in and get it preplaced.

The first questing I was asked was have I the receipt? No it’s 30 years old! Life time guarantee it’s dead and I’m not!!!
Comes back OK this items been abused? No it hasn’t.
OK we’ll speak to the Sidcrome rep! Thanks.

Three weeks later "I" ring only to be told the Sidcrome rep said it has been abused?
So I’m really now p***d off.

Eventually speak to the Rep who said he would have replaced it but they didn’t have any demo’s available. So basically get lost.

After a few words he agreed to replace it but refused to post it. Made me travel 40K through Sydney to pick it up.

For the $30 these things are worth I would have just replaced it “until it became a matter of principal”.

[Blknight.aus]

if you're going to get any mods done on a new car work out what they are before you do them and pay for them to be done before you take delivery of the vehicle. List the fitting of the accessories as a requirement prior to purchase and have them do the pre sale check after its modded but before you pay for it.

All your new goodies are then covered and anything the dealer has had done to the vehicle is covered under your warrenty.

[dullbird]

some dealers will only fit orginal landrover which doesn't always help some people

[solmanic]

Marty110
Your 110% right there are some things were the principal is important....
For the $30 these things are worth I would have just replaced it “until it became a matter of principal”.

I second the "matter of pricipal" idea. I am in a battle of wills with LR over my floor mat which has worn through before the warranty has even run out on the vehicle. An easy fix with a bit of vinyl welding but their attitude and complete disregard for their own advertising has got me seeing red so it's off to the office of fair trading I go...

[Scallops]

I second the "matter of pricipal" idea. I am in a battle of wills with LR over my floor mat which has worn through before the warranty has even run out on the vehicle. An easy fix with a bit of vinyl welding but their attitude and complete disregard for their own advertising has got me seeing red so it's off to the office of fair trading I go...

Go fella! Good luck. :)

[n plus one]

some dealers will only fit orginal landrover which doesn't always help some people

Yep, pretty sure I've got a copy of the technical bulletin that instructs LR dealers not to fit any non-genuine accessories as part of pre-delivery AND to record any non-genuine modifications made to any vehicles presented for servicing to use against warranty claims...

[bazzle]

I now think ARB have very few experts in anything Land Rover. All they know is how to take your money. In W.A 10 or so years ago they had staff who specialised in specific vehicles and you would be referred to these people. Now as Your 4x4 show the "little bit off lift" is all they know. The consequences of this is what we suffer.

Allan

Im sure you know..;)

They design product to suit a particular vehicle. Landy or Nissan, Ford, etc etc
In the supsension field there are qualified engineers who do all the checks like suspension angles, binding etc etc. plus many kilometers of varied road and off road testing.
They even have Land Rovers in theire development fleet.
Im sure if you do a factory and design facility tour like I have you can see what you said is bulldust.

Bazzle

[Allan]

Im sure you know..;)

They design product to suit a particular vehicle. Landy or Nissan, Ford, etc etc
In the supsension field there are qualified engineers who do all the checks like suspension angles, binding etc etc. plus many kilometers of varied road and off road testing.
They even have Land Rovers in theire development fleet.
Im sure if you do a factory and design facility tour like I have you can see what you said is bulldust.

Bazzle

More " checks " needed on the Puma then, as many of us have found.

Allan

[isuzurover]

More " checks " needed on the Puma then, as many of us have found.

Allan

I think the problem seems to be educating the salesmen and fitters.

As someone posted, ARB (head office/engineering) found this issue for the TD5 and noted it on their docs.

ARB sellers/installers usually still recommend LSD oil with ARB lockers, even though ARB DO NOT and have not for a long time.