Boge leveller

[Bearman]

Anyone had their boge leveller for a 110 reconditioned. Is there a place in Qld that does them,approx what cost and does it last.

[400HPONGAS]

You could always swap it for the later model defender setup , I here its much more reliable and never needs reconditiong , LMFAO !!

[DeeJay]

I'd run around without it & see if you can tell the difference!!
After all, the Army 110's don't have them.

[Bearman]

I'd run around without it & see if you can tell the difference!!
After all, the Army 110's don't have them.

I removed it about 10 years ago because it was knackered and I had a set of Polyairs I wanted to fit but they didn't last very long and now I am that much older and appreciate a softer ride. I have acquired one to fit but would like to have my original reconned to keep as a spare. You can notice the difference when you remove it - it is like an extra shockie on the rear and does help on corrugated roads as well as assisting with load levelling.

[Bearman]

You could always swap it for the later model defender setup , I here its much more reliable and never needs reconditiong , LMFAO !!

What do they look like. Any pics?

[lokka]

If i were you and wanted a smother ride id fit twin shocks to the rear it will give the same effect and be alot easyer and cheaper to set up and keep in service .
I will be doing this mod to my 130 county soon as i want the smother ride when both laden and unladen as it is now unladen its ok but i know i can make it better with more dampening :D

[clean32]

The load leveler is great, load up the county drive down the road and she’s back to normal ride height, nice soft springs, she floats down the road and you don’t get tossed around as much on the tracks.

I suspect that anyone who knows how to rebuild these are either out to pasture or what a fortune. Open it up and have a look yourself, there cant be much in them.

NB there is no latter model, they just changed to stiffer springs and a bum in the air attitude.

[incisor]

apparently ww shock absorber reconditioners down this way still do them

[PhilipA]

Try here
Reconditioned Parts (http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/contents/en-us/d101.html)
easy Huh!
Regards Philip A

[JDNSW]

........ Open it up and have a look yourself, there cant be much in them.
......

Do NOT follow this advice unless you know exactly what you are doing. They contain (or should) gas under high pressure, and a wrong step in disassembling them could be a real problem.

John

[Dougal]

If i were you and wanted a smother ride id fit twin shocks to the rear it will give the same effect and be alot easyer and cheaper to set up and keep in service .
I will be doing this mod to my 130 county soon as i want the smother ride when both laden and unladen as it is now unladen its ok but i know i can make it better with more dampening :D

How is overdamping the suspension going to give you a smoother ride?

[Davo]

I believe in a similar thread it was these guys W.W. Shock Absorbers - Brisbane's original shock absorber reconditioners. 33 Matheson Street, Virginia, Queensland, Australia 4014 (http://www.wwshockabsorbers.com.au/) who were recommended.

So yes, there are still people who can rebuild these things.

[Bearman]

apparently ww shock absorber reconditioners down this way still do them

Thanks for all your help fellas, as Inc and Davo suggested I can get it reconditioned at WW Shock Absorbers in Brisbane for $450. Thats a lot less that $1400 for a new one so I will probably go that way.:D

[Davo]

Thanks for posting that. I was wondering how much it was going to cost when I get mine done!

[PhilipA]

WW Shock Absorbers in Brisbane for $450

Really , I would have LRA do it.

I had experience with WW about 40 years ago when I bought "reconditioned" shocks from them. They were cheap but when I had a good look the shocks had a hole drilled in the top and the oil swapped for heavier oil. It was not worth anything like they charged.

LRA use a guy who lives in Victoria AFAIK and does nothing but rebuild Boges.
AND they are NOT a shock absorber, they are a load leveller.
I bought one 20 years ago ( for $300) now and it performed well.

Regard sPhilip A

[Bearman]

Really , I would have LRA do it.

I had experience with WW about 40 years ago when I bought "reconditioned" shocks from them. They were cheap but when I had a good look the shocks had a hole drilled in the top and the oil swapped for heavier oil. It was not worth anything like they charged.

LRA use a guy who lives in Victoria AFAIK and does nothing but rebuild Boges.
AND they are NOT a shock absorber, they are a load leveller.
I bought one 20 years ago ( for $300) now and it performed well.

Regard sPhilip A

Any contact details?:eek:

[PhilipA]

Any contact details?

I gave you LRA's.
You can order them through most specialists. AFAIR I ordered mine via Graeme Cooper.
AFAIK the guy doesn't want to deal with the public and so has no website etc.
Regards Philip A

[ROMAROVER]

Save your money for other things that will come up just fit defender springs if required for load carrying, must agree the softer county springs where nice ride but mud flaps would nearly touch the road under half load, defender springs bit rough off road, i'll swap my defenders for your smooth county onesnow i no longer carry big loads - boge CARRY OVER SHORT TERM FROM RANGE ROVER GOOD WHILE THEY WORKED, but not necessary except for compliance if there was any inspector alive that knows about them.
cheers.

[landrover dave]

Save your money for other things that will come up just fit defender springs if required for load carrying, must agree the softer county springs where nice ride but mud flaps would nearly touch the road under half load, defender springs bit rough off road, i'll swap my defenders for your smooth county onesnow i no longer carry big loads - boge CARRY OVER SHORT TERM FROM RANGE ROVER GOOD WHILE THEY WORKED, but not necessary except for compliance if there was any inspector alive that knows about them.
cheers.
Boge hydramats work at a preset height. Later Rangies a higher height than earlier. With a suspension lift they are only good as a door stop! The other problom is the vehicle wallows either side of them, this causes the legendary Rover body roll. Discos and Defenders were never fitted with them and dont have the body roll problems of the Rangies and Counties. I have removed them from all my vehicles and most friends and customers cars and fitted heavier rate springs. Disco springs work well in Rangies and I use a heavy duty Defender spring in my County. Every one who has had this done has remarked on the much improved handling with little loss of comfort.

[Dougal]

Boge hydramats work at a preset height. Later Rangies a higher height than earlier. With a suspension lift they are only good as a door stop! The other problom is the vehicle wallows either side of them, this causes the legendary Rover body roll. Discos and Defenders were never fitted with them and dont have the body roll problems of the Rangies and Counties. I have removed them from all my vehicles and most friends and customers cars and fitted heavier rate springs. Disco springs work well in Rangies and I use a heavy duty Defender spring in my County. Every one who has had this done has remarked on the much improved handling with little loss of comfort.

If you take the self leveller out of a rangie and compensate with stiffer springs then you can get severe oversteer problems. This is why the self-leveller runs on the centre vs one on each side, it doesn't increase the roll-stiffness of the rear end.
The rangies and discos without the self-leveller that I've seen all came factory with swaybars. A big one in the front and a thin one in the rear, this keeps similar front/rear roll stiffness ratios to the self-leveller equipped cars and keeps oversteer in check.

With the longer wheelbase and lower gearing of a county/defender I'm sure the oversteer isn't going to be as much of a problem. But my rangie with stiff springs in the back was vicious enough that I wouldn't let any else drive it. Lowering and softening the rear so the leveller worked bought it back to neutral handling.

Those old poms were smarter than most gave them credit for. Just make sure you understand all of the factors they were dealing with before you start messing with the suspension.
If you have a rangie that flops from one side to the other, pivoting on the rear leveller then you have a spring length issue and/or tweaked radius arms (one higher than the other). Jack up the front centre and rear centre or corner weight the vehicle so you can work out which corners aren't taking the load and swap springs around or use packers to even it out. With the right length springs, there's no flopping involved.

[rovercare]

But my rangie with stiff springs in the back was vicious enough that I wouldn't let any else drive it. .

I wouldn't be letting anyone drive a rangie that can spin all 4 on asphalt either:D

[incisor]

But my rangie with stiff springs in the back was vicious enough that I wouldn't let any else drive it.

have driven two like that myself and wondered why it was so...

mine has a boge and an aftermarket rear sway bar, now and handles like it is on rails compared to some i have driven.

[Dougal]

I wouldn't be letting anyone drive a rangie that can spin all 4 on asphalt either:D

Those prone to exaggerate are last in line.:p

[PhilipA]

I disagree on the detail of the usefulness of a hydromat on a lifted car.
The Boge will still come into play if you have a load on at normal ride height and provide a progressive increase in spring rate as it compresses. It also serves a purpose as an additional bump stop.

I recall reading several years ago on a ZF site of the three functions of the Hydromat ie load leveller , damping, and progressive spring.

The main reason for speccing the RRC with a Boge was to allow LR to lower the rear spring rate and therefore slow the cyclic speed of body reaction to force inputs from the suspension.
I have 180 lb 2inch lift rear springs, Polyairs and a Boge. I set my Polyairs only at 4 to max 10 lbs and with their progression and the Boge's progression, the dip absorbtion is amazing.
Regards Philip A
See here
http://www.zf.com/zfXmlServlet'resultUrl=/corporate/en/company/tradition/product_information/TraditionProductContentPage.jsp&sessionAttribute=xmlRoot&serviceUrl=http://appsprod01.zf.com/zf.productDataBase/service/applicationLayerContentPage&pageID=317989&productTypeID=317986&versionID=323749&applicationID=12288&applicationGroupID=&businessUnitShortcut=&divisionShortcut=&languageISOCode=EN#toggleBox

[GuyG]

Boge hydramats work at a preset height. Later Rangies a higher height than earlier. ...

Thats why later rangies were fitted with a different boge unit, they look the same but they are longer. Don't know the date of change over.

[lokka]

How is overdamping the suspension going to give you a smoother ride?

Well i was under the impression that by fitting 2 shocks either side with them either side of the axle IE one laying forward and one laying back that it would help curve the harshness of a stiffer coil whilst unladen and add extra dampening whilst laden .

Maby now after reading whats been posted here about the boge leveler it may be worth refitting one tho i was going to go with either air springs or poly airs in the back .

[350RRC]

[QUOTE=PhilipA;1321475]I disagree on the detail of the usefulness of a hydromat on a lifted car.
The Boge will still come into play if you have a load on at normal ride height and provide a progressive increase in spring rate as it compresses. It also serves a purpose as an additional bump stop.


Regards Philip A

Agree with this. Have a 2" lift and having it fitted does make a difference when carting around a lot of stuff in the back. Keeps the rear off the bump stops.

cheers, DL

[VladTepes]

Defenders have load levellers ???

[rovercare]

Defenders have load levellers ???

Brian has a county:p

[400HPONGAS]

Interesting Dougal , Why do the first Disco's pre dash upgrade (92/93's ) have neither a Load leveller or anti-sway bars (though on my 93TDI the diff mounts were there but no Bars.) All the 93 models especially the 200TDI didnt have sway bars or loadlevellers but did have that halfwit harmonic balancer on the front diff that just fell off and did SFA anyway. Personally Ive found the Roll center to be more affected by the weight in the back and wheres its positioned , hence the difference between the a full LR tank of 120Litres and and a empty one, wheel carriers, tools ,etc .
Best thing to do with it is save yourself 8kgs of banging/clanging weight and deposit it the roundfile , fit airbags or the correct springs , and if your jacked the suspension at all ,then just chuck it out , its useless !!!

[isuzurover]

Brian, If you are so inclined, you can set up rear air springs (not air bags) for less than the cost of the boge reco.

See my members thread if interested.

The air springs are far more comfortable than original (especially on corrugations) - with or without the boge.

[Bearman]

Brian, If you are so inclined, you can set up rear air springs (not air bags) for less than the cost of the boge reco.

See my members thread if interested.

The air springs are far more comfortable than original (especially on corrugations) - with or without the boge.

Thanks Ben,
Are you sure a rear airspring setup would be cheaper than $450. I currently have RFSV Army rear springs in my County. That is double coils like the 130 has. Unloaded its a bit lumpy but with a full load and my no. 5 on the back its magnificient. No roll and she only drops about 50mm with a full load on board. I can remove the inner coils when they are not needed and the ride is a lot better. Also the stiffer spring setup is ideal for towing my 7M Sharkcat. Do you reckon the airspring setup would be longer lasting than reinstalling the boge unit. I don't like the idea of a compressor running most of the time thats why I went for a Maxi drive rear end instead of an Arb.

[Dougal]

Interesting Dougal , Why do the first Disco's pre dash upgrade (92/93's ) have neither a Load leveller or anti-sway bars (though on my 93TDI the diff mounts were there but no Bars.) All the 93 models especially the 200TDI didnt have sway bars or loadlevellers but did have that halfwit harmonic balancer on the front diff that just fell off and did SFA anyway. Personally Ive found the Roll center to be more affected by the weight in the back and wheres its positioned , hence the difference between the a full LR tank of 120Litres and and a empty one, wheel carriers, tools ,etc .
Best thing to do with it is save yourself 8kgs of banging/clanging weight and deposit it the roundfile , fit airbags or the correct springs , and if your jacked the suspension at all ,then just chuck it out , its useless !!!

I've never been under a disco of that vintage. All the ones I've seen had swaybars. However the taller and heavier body of a disco will mean the COG is much higher which is probably going to give the driver the ****s before you get near the same cornering loads.

I'd like to see anyone get one of those discos without sway bars sideways, should be quite entertaining.:D

[rovercare]

Thanks Ben,
Are you sure a rear airspring setup would be cheaper than $450. I currently have RFSV Army rear springs in my County. That is double coils like the 130 has. Unloaded its a bit lumpy but with a full load and my no. 5 on the back its magnificient. No roll and she only drops about 50mm with a full load on board. I can remove the inner coils when they are not needed and the ride is a lot better. Also the stiffer spring setup is ideal for towing my 7M Sharkcat. Do you reckon the airspring setup would be longer lasting than reinstalling the boge unit. I don't like the idea of a compressor running most of the time thats why I went for a Maxi drive rear end instead of an Arb.

You can run the bags without a compressor at all, just pump them up to desired height and that's it, till you want to change height according to load:)

[rovercare]

Stupid puta

[rovercare]

I'd like to see anyone get one of those discos without sway bars sideways, should be quite entertaining.:D

Easy done, accelerate into the corner, back off, then steer, when its to far, simply tramp it and pull out;)

[350RRC]

Are you sure a rear airspring setup would be cheaper than $450.

Way cheaper Brian, have a sniff around here:

Firestone Coil-Rite Air Helper Springs for Coil Spring Suspension, Coil Rite Air Bags - TruckSpring.com (http://www.truckspring.com/suspension-parts/helper-springs/air-spring-kits/firestone-coil-rite.aspx)

cheers, DL

[Bearman]

You can run the bags without a compressor at all, just pump them up to desired height and that's it, till you want to change height according to load:)

What sort of life could one expect to get out of the airbags Matt.

[rovercare]

What sort of life could one expect to get out of the airbags Matt.

Mine are still like new!:D

Don't know Brian, but I'd suggest a long time, lots of old log trucks getting around here in the bush with airbags, although I'll be taking a spare.....just incase:)

[Bearman]

Way cheaper Brian, have a sniff around here:

Firestone Coil-Rite Air Helper Springs for Coil Spring Suspension, Coil Rite Air Bags - TruckSpring.com (http://www.truckspring.com/suspension-parts/helper-springs/air-spring-kits/firestone-coil-rite.aspx)

cheers, DL

These are only like the Polyair bags ( spring assist). I have had Polyairs before and found they dont last because the coils wear through the sides of the airbags. I think what Ben and Matt are talking about are proper air bags not spring assist bags.

[rovercare]

These are only like the Polyair bags ( spring assist). I have had Polyairs before and found they dont last because the coils wear through the sides of the airbags. I think what Ben and Matt are talking about are proper air bags not spring assist bags.

Reversible Sleeve Bus Air Springs - TruckSpring.com (http://www.truckspring.com/suspension-parts/firestone-air-bags/bus-springs/reversible-sleeve-air-springs.aspx)

Myself, Tony and Ben have quite a few pics in our corresponding build threads Brian:)

[isuzurover]

Thanks Ben,
Are you sure a rear airspring setup would be cheaper than $450. I currently have RFSV Army rear springs in my County. That is double coils like the 130 has. Unloaded its a bit lumpy but with a full load and my no. 5 on the back its magnificient. No roll and she only drops about 50mm with a full load on board. I can remove the inner coils when they are not needed and the ride is a lot better. Also the stiffer spring setup is ideal for towing my 7M Sharkcat. Do you reckon the airspring setup would be longer lasting than reinstalling the boge unit. I don't like the idea of a compressor running most of the time thats why I went for a Maxi drive rear end instead of an Arb.

My setup is here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/99871-isuzu-county-tourer-11.html (need to go back a few pages)

I think it was around US$300 for the 2 bags (bellow+piston). The rest of the setup used air fittings and connectors I had lying around - mine is a completely manual system - I need to reach into the wheel arch to adjust the reg.

My (free) converted AC compressor hardly ever turns on, I can park the truck for a 2 weeks and the bags don't go down.

As mentioned you can just use valves like polyairs. Check Rangier's thread and the loads he carries. I would place money that air springs would be better at towing your shark cat. They use them on trucks and trailers after all!

I was a bit concerned about longevity, but not now - after doing the canning and the gibb river rd. I made the top mounts a bit short, and the top of the bags were rubbing on the turrets on articulation. I thought I would have to repair the bags or refit the coils along the way, but the bags are bloody tough, and still going. You can apparently repair small holes with tubeless tyre plugs, and they seem resistant/impervious to oil.

A spare bellows is easier to carry than a spare coil.

[Dougal]

Easy done, accelerate into the corner, back off, then steer, when its to far, simply tramp it and pull out;)

I'd still love to see it. Anyone got a video?

[rovercare]

I'd still love to see it. Anyone got a video?

I think they are stored with your wheelspin videos;)

[Dougal]

I think they are stored with your wheelspin videos;)

Is there a reason you're being a plonker?

[rovercare]

Is there a reason you're being a plonker?

Because I completely disagree with the fact you can spin all 4 wheels in your 4BD1T RR, to be honest:)

And I continue to try chastise you into producing proof:):)

[Dougal]

Because I completely disagree with the fact you can spin all 4 wheels in your 4BD1T RR, to be honest:)

And I continue to try chastise you into producing proof:):)

On gravel it can spin all four. I'm not sure why you have such a problem beleiving that.
It's not like I have to magically disable traction control.

[rovercare]

On gravel it can spin all four. I'm not sure why you have such a problem beleiving that.
It's not like I have to magically disable traction control.

Thats what I don't believe:D, all 4, but let us not continue to ruin Brians thread, I can always dredge up digs I've made in more relevant threads if you like:)

[VladTepes]

IIRC a prerequisite to fitting HID headlights is having a load leveller. I think it has to be an automatic one - ruling out airbags under discussion and meaning something like the Boge or a fully operating rangie air suspendion (they exist in theory).

So could one be easily fitted to a 130 ? Could one ? Should one ? How ?

[clean32]

IIRC a prerequisite to fitting HID headlights is having a load leveller. I think it has to be an automatic one - ruling out airbags under discussion and meaning something like the Boge or a fully operating rangie air suspendion (they exist in theory).

So could one be easily fitted to a 130 ? Could one ? Should one ? How ?

i think it would be easy to fit,

But although i am a fan of the load leveler. i have some doubts about fitting it to a 130.
The load leveler came out with the RR first then the county. i would suspect that they have some maximum load limit that may be a bit to light for the potential of a 130. I mean lets face it a RR wasn’t designed to carry much weight.

[incisor]

I mean lets face it a RR wasn’t designed to carry much weight.
[tonguewink]

[rovercare]

IIRC a prerequisite to fitting HID headlights is having a load leveller. I think it has to be an automatic one - ruling out airbags under discussion and meaning something like the Boge or a fully operating rangie air suspendion (they exist in theory).

So could one be easily fitted to a 130 ? Could one ? Should one ? How ?

Yep for the auto levelling:D, http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/66265-120-extra-cab-24.html#post1254835

[isuzurover]

IIRC a prerequisite to fitting HID headlights is having a load leveller. I think it has to be an automatic one - ruling out airbags under discussion and meaning something like the Boge or a fully operating rangie air suspendion (they exist in theory).

So could one be easily fitted to a 130 ? Could one ? Should one ? How ?

um, vlad - pretty sure you need auto adjusting lights not auto levelling suspension for HID? Though I suppose it would do the same. As Matt pointed out - he has that feature with his air springs. But - who mentioned HID???


Matt - Dougal is running stock tyres and a stock body chassis. If you removed the bars and winch etc from your old rangie and fitted 28's I'm sure you would have a chance???

Btw - depends on the gravel. the WA pea gravel over here is so slippery I could at least chirp all 4 taking off if I was silly enough.

[rovercare]

um, vlad - pretty sure you need auto adjusting lights not auto levelling suspension for HID? Though I suppose it would do the same. As Matt pointed out - he has that feature with his air springs. But - who mentioned HID???


Matt - Dougal is running stock tyres and a stock body chassis. If you removed the bars and winch etc from your old rangie and fitted 28's I'm sure you would have a chance???

Btw - depends on the gravel. the WA pea gravel over here is so slippery I could at least chirp all 4 taking off if I was silly enough.

My rangie is now a chassis in the paddock:(

Nope, that's the thing with having 3 differentials, on power you'll spin the wheel with the least traction, not all 4, drift on the other hand:D


By the way, I'l be in Perth late october for a mates wedding, if your keen for a beer:).....I'll be roverless though:(

[VladTepes]

Ben the HID was in another thread and I beleive it mentioned auto adjusting headlights or auto levelling vehicle (the emphasis being on the "auto" ). Just thought a Bohe system could potentially make it legal to fit HID's to a Defender, all things considered.

[isuzurover]

...that's the thing with having 3 differentials, on power you'll spin the wheel with the least traction, not all 4,

By the way, I'l be in Perth late october for a mates wedding, if your keen for a beer:).....I'll be roverless though:(


Yeah, sure, you will be inclined to lift and spin one front. However it is still possible. Now I have lockers F+R I will have to give it a go.

Definitely up for a beer.

[Dougal]

Nope, that's the thing with having 3 differentials, on power you'll spin the wheel with the least traction, not all 4, drift on the other hand:D

The way diffs work one wheel has to have 1/4 of the traction on one wheel to spin it up on a fulltime 4wd vehicle.
With just two wheel drive one wheel needs to have less than 1/2 the traction for it to spin up alone.

The interesting thing about the landrover/rangerover chassis setup is both driveshafts spin in the same direction, so it doesn't get the driveshaft torque unloading individual wheels like 2wd live axle vehicles get.
A G-wagon on the other hand has both driveshafts turning in opposite directions, that's going to load and unload diagonal wheels under acceleration.

[rovercare]

Yeah, sure, you will be inclined to lift and spin one front. However it is still possible. Now I have lockers F+R I will have to give it a go.

Definitely up for a beer.

That's it, lockers are the only way possbile:D and your gonna need some really loose gravel......or ice

I'll give you a bell, I'll just be jumping of the plane with my bag and no direction I'd say:)

[Dougal]

That's it, lockers are the only way possbile:D and your gonna need some really loose gravel......or ice

Nope.
Have you ever actually tried this? Get any vehicle on a gravel surface and boot it, then go back and look at the tracks you left.

This appears to be the quote of mine you have issues with:

With 20psi it has traction issues in second on dry tarmac and third on wet tarmac. It's good fun.

JustinC has similar experiences, maybe you should stalk him too.