Re-wiring 2a issues

[korg20000bc]

I'm in the process of rewiring my 1968 2A. I bought the appropriate wiring harness.

I'm encountering some problems and would appreciate any advice.
The loom has instructions for connection to the ammeter... Ain't got none. Should that wiring be omitted or rerouted to the temp guage or somewhere else?

Thanks in advance.

[d@rk51d3]

Was it taken out of the cluster on later models?

Normally it's with the fuel gauge etc. Next to the speedo

[JDNSW]

Sounds as if you have the wrong harness. There was a major (well, relatively) change in the wiring in 1967, coinciding with the change to negative earth. If it is a 1968, it should not have an ammeter, and the wiring harness should not call for one. And the harness should include wiring for the temperature gauge and voltage stabiliser, neither of which existed on the earlier model. There is a slight possibility that the harness may have been designed to be usable in both before and after systems. If this is the case, there should be instructions what to do. I would contact the supplier.

John

[korg20000bc]

And that's just what I just did.

The supplier seemed very surprised that the negative earth 1968 Land Rover had not ammeter and said to make the connections join without the ammeter in between.

But there is nothing on the instructions regarding the temperature gauge and voltage stabiliser either...


Just because I'm dense and need help- what's the difference between the voltage stabiliser and the voltage regulator? Mine originally has a two clip regulator but its not required with the 15 ACR alternator, right?

This is what mine originally looked like:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/08/107.jpg

I'm getting a little confused

[drifter]

The voltage stabiliser is a small device that sits behind the dash. It's sole purpose is to provide a stabilised ~10V feed for the temp and fuel gauges.

There are two different kinds (to my knowledge).

One is a device that is attached to earth (the back of the speedo or the bulkhead and it has 4 tags on it - 2 are 12V inputs and the other 2 are 10V outputs - one to each gauge.

The other is a device with 2 tags on it - one earth, one 12V input and one 10V output.

I have both :eek:

That voltage regulator you are showing in your picture is the external regulator of an alternator.

[korg20000bc]

The voltage stabiliser is a small device that sits behind the dash. It's sole purpose is to provide a stabilised ~10V feed for the temp and fuel gauges.

There are two different kinds (to my knowledge).

One is a device that is attached to earth (the back of the speedo or the bulkhead and it has 4 tags on it - 2 are 12V inputs and the other 2 are 10V outputs - one to each gauge.

The other is a device with 2 tags on it - one earth, one 12V input and one 10V output.

I have both :eek:

That voltage regulator you are showing in your picture is the external regulator of an alternator.

Thanks, you're helping me.
So this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/1409.jpg
is the voltage regulator for the instruments? The connector tags are labled:
C1 (two tags) C2 (one Tag) and W1 (one tag). Would anyone mind telling me what is what?

Also, the external alternator regulator on the driver's side of the bulkhead (pictured above) is in the position of the Voltage Regulator Box in my workshop manual. I can only see this box as represented with 4 or more connector tabs in the manual but mine only has 2. If I was to use the external regulator and an alternator how would the wiring be arranged?

Really grateful for any advice.

[RobHay]

I would have thought that if you have a alternator than the regulator is built-in....unless you have a real early alternator........then the external regulator is redundent

[korg20000bc]

I would have thought that if you have a alternator than the regulator is built-in....unless you have a real early alternator........then the external regulator is redundent

Yes, I have the option of putting the old, original alternator without regulator (which I'd probably prefer to use for originality sake) or a new one with integral regulator.

[JDNSW]

Yes, I have the option of putting the old, original alternator without regulator (which I'd probably prefer to use for originality sake) or a new one with integral regulator.

The 1968 2a, as it is a four, originally had a generator with a separate regulator mounted on the bulkhead where there are three threaded holes near the clutch master cylinder and next to the fuse block. An alternator was optional (standard on the six) but I have never seen an original one on a four. So it is very unlikely that the alternator without a regulator is the original. If it is, it will be a Lucas 11AC. The easiest alternator to fit is the Lucas 16ACR off a Series 3, but there will be others.

John

[drifter]

Thanks, you're helping me.
So this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/1409.jpg
is the voltage regulator for the instruments? The connector tags are labled:
C1 (two tags) C2 (one Tag) and W1 (one tag). Would anyone mind telling me what is what?

Also, the external alternator regulator on the driver's side of the bulkhead (pictured above) is in the position of the Voltage Regulator Box in my workshop manual. I can only see this box as represented with 4 or more connector tabs in the manual but mine only has 2. If I was to use the external regulator and an alternator how would the wiring be arranged?

Really grateful for any advice.

er - nope - that pic shows a Lucas 6RA - it is a relay:
Electrical Components (http://www.vintagemotorspares.com/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/hodge?opendocument&part=5)

(434 Lucas 6RA/SRB111 relay. 12 volt 20 amp. suitable for horns, lighting, etc. push-on terminals.)

What you may be looking for (if, indeed, your car has one) will have tags labelled ( B ) & ( I ) or similar. My 67 2a didn't have one, my 71 2a does.

If you don't have one, don't sweat it - your fuel tank sender and fuel & temp gauges won't need it.

As for the external regulator - my 67 2a had a Lucas Voltage Regulator in the position John describes - and my 71 2a has a 4 pin voltage regulator in the exact place your vehicle has one. (I have a small alternator, too).

To be perfectly frank, if it was me doing it, I would be replacing the alternator with one that has an internal voltage regulator and re-wiring things - but you have already purchased your loom.

How many wires does your loom have for the voltage regulator? Are they labeled:

A1 A F D E ?

If so, it looks like they may have sold you the loom for a dynamo, not alternator.

Mine is a botch job that was done by an electrician somewhere - way before I bought it. The Voltage regulator is a strange one that I found somewhere in an MG manual - and have now lost it :(

Nevermind - an auto sparkie should be able to show you how to modify your wires for an external regulator - or, even better, how to wire it if you swap to an internally regulated alternator.

Or someone on here may be able to help further.

[korg20000bc]

Thanks, men.

So once an alternator with internal regulator is installed the wiring will more resemble a series3 vehicle than a series2a?

Is that the main difference between the wiring for series 2a and 3?

[drifter]

Thanks, men.

So once an alternator with internal regulator is installed the wiring will more resemble a series3 vehicle than a series2a?

Is that the main difference between the wiring for series 2a and 3?

That part of the wiring probably does. I must admit I haven't looked at a Series 3 diagram.

I should probably go look as I'll be doing something similar myself. ;)

I have rewired mine the 'hard' way - all wires are in except for the engine ones and I was going to do them once I had an engine ready to install.

[UncleHo]

G'day Korg20000bc :)

The external regulator that you have on your firewall is a Bosch RE-55 type these were the regs fitted to early 64-69 Holdens and Falcons which had Bosch unregulated alternators,35-40amp units,which had 3 wires coming from the rear of them,the later and much more common Bosch alternator with in built brush/regulator unit (little black box on the back held by 2 screws)only has 2 wires exiting the rear,I have forgotten which is the redundant one,I gather you still have the alternator that came with the vehicle,it would probably be an early Bosch 35amp unit,EH-HR Holden ;)

BTW. the Bosch alternator is a lot easier to get parts for outside the capitol cities than a Lucas unit, and cheaper too.


hope that is of help

[drifter]

If it didn't help him, it has certainly helped me. Thanks Unca Ho ;)

[JDNSW]

Thanks, men.

So once an alternator with internal regulator is installed the wiring will more resemble a series3 vehicle than a series2a?

Is that the main difference between the wiring for series 2a and 3?

No. That is a difference, but the main difference is the length of a lot of the wires, due to the move of the instrument panel from the centre to in front of the driver. A further major difference is the combination stalk on the steering column which includes the headlight dip switch - this quite different location makes major changes to the wiring. Also the Series 3 has twice as many fuses as the 2a, and the blinkers are standard, not an afterthought.

The wiring changes required to fit an alternator instead of a generator are quite minor, compared to these differences.

But overall, the circuit diagrams are quite similar, hardly surprising, considering that the vehicles are quite similar.

John

[korg20000bc]

G'day Korg20000bc :)

The external regulator that you have on your firewall is a Bosch RE-55 type these were the regs fitted to early 64-69 Holdens and Falcons which had Bosch unregulated alternators,35-40amp units,which had 3 wires coming from the rear of them,the later and much more common Bosch alternator with in built brush/regulator unit (little black box on the back held by 2 screws)only has 2 wires exiting the rear,I have forgotten which is the redundant one,I gather you still have the alternator that came with the vehicle,it would probably be an early Bosch 35amp unit,EH-HR Holden ;)

BTW. the Bosch alternator is a lot easier to get parts for outside the capitol cities than a Lucas unit, and cheaper too.


hope that is of help

Sure does help. I do still have the un-reg alternator on the vehicle and the external regulator. the truth is that I stuffed up and ordered the loom for an alternator with internal reg. I'd be happy to keep the set up I got if I can nut out how to wire it up. For some reason my brain doesn't seem to handle it to easily. Nothing seems straight forward. Its like that bloke in The Castle trying to work his photocopier...

That pic of the relay I put up before- do you reckon its the cold start switch? Also, where is the connection for the cold start switch in the cylinder head?

Jeez I feel stupid

[korg20000bc]

Just found this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/08/6.jpg

I think that answers the set-up question, unless anyone can see a problem with it.

[UncleHo]

G'day Drifter :)

I have a 2a which had a 35amp Holden Bosch alternator non regulated, with the RE-55 external unit, which I replaced with a 55amp internal reg unit from a Datsan 200B and we had to drop one of the wires from the rear,I have found that outside capitol cities Lucas alternator parts and knowledge to repair them is scarce, but with Bosch every auto elecie could fix them and the brush/reg packs were standard stock lines :),up to the electronic/fuel injected, ignitioned vehicle then it got a little complicated, as the wiring from them differed.

Point of interest, when travelling to Cooma in 2008, the other 110's Bosch universal reg died at 3am easter thursday near Goulburn, and he got a replacement brush/reg pack at 8.30am it town and back on the road at 9.00am :D that's why most people change to Bosch units, parts availabilty.


cheers

[JDNSW]

I suspect that the 12v supply from the ignition switch should go through the charge warning (ignition) light - as you show will work, but you will have no charge light. The lead from the battery to the alternator needs to be substantial.

John

[korg20000bc]

Well I just went out in the rain to have a gander and the alternator is a Bosch EE 14v3 unit WITH INTERNAL REGULATOR!

Why, oh why would there be an external reg installed? Maybe the internal reg failed and it was rigged with the external?

Anyway, that helps a lot to actually know what I have. Who would have thought it?


So could anyone set me straight on the location of the cold start switch in the head?

[JDNSW]

Well I just went out in the rain to have a gander and the alternator is a Bosch EE 14v3 unit WITH INTERNAL REGULATOR!

Why, oh why would there be an external reg installed? Maybe the internal reg failed and it was rigged with the external?

It is a replacement for an alternator that did have an external regulator and the unused one was not removed?

Anyway, that helps a lot to actually know what I have. Who would have thought it?


So could anyone set me straight on the location of the cold start switch in the head?

On the top of the cylinder head next to the thermostat housing. Roughly triangular in shape, held by three small screws.

John

[korg20000bc]

On the top of the cylinder head next to the thermostat housing. Roughly triangular in shape, held by three small screws.

John

Really?

Damn, I thought that was the temp sender...

[JDNSW]

Really?

Damn, I thought that was the temp sender...

Temp sender screws into the RH side of the head, the bit the thermostat housing is bolted to.

John

[korg20000bc]

Much appreciated!

One more, if you'd be so kind.
The diagram shows that the cold start switch in the head connects to a "cold start switch on control"

Is this a relay normally located behind the instruments?

Thanks

Matthew

[JDNSW]

Much appreciated!

One more, if you'd be so kind.
The diagram shows that the cold start switch in the head connects to a "cold start switch on control"

Is this a relay normally located behind the instruments?

Thanks

Matthew

No,it is a switch on the choke control. In the post 67 model it is p/n 563318, clamped around the plastic tube that the rigid bit attached to the choke knob goes into, and has a plunger that is displaced by this bit when the choke knob is right in. The cold start switch in the head turns on when the engine is warm, and if the choke is still out, this switch on the choke control is also on, so that the orange "cold start" light will illuminate.

John

[drifter]

No,it is a switch on the choke control. In the post 67 model it is p/n 563318, clamped around the plastic tube that the rigid bit attached to the choke knob goes into, and has a plunger that is displaced by this bit when the choke knob is right in. The cold start switch in the head turns on when the engine is warm, and if the choke is still out, this switch on the choke control is also on, so that the orange "cold start" light will illuminate.

John

yup

I tend to think of it as a warning "hey, dink, yer choke's still out"

[drifter]

Matthew

That relay you posted a pic of....

Could be for several things...

I have seen a schematic diagram where a relay was used to engage the starter switch

I have seen relays used to handle the headlights on main beam

It could have been used virtually anywhere that someone wanted to reduce the current flowing through a switch.

None of my 'standard' schematics for a 2a have one.