Front Seals/Steering Lever Removal

[neophyteguy]

G'day all! I finally have a couple of days to work on my wagon and intend to tackle the front end. After taking off the stub axle, I found the Axle Half Shaft, etc. is completely covered in grease. This of course leads me to believe there was a leak and the diff oil was working its way out and someone took the easy way out.

I am keen to get the system back to the oil lubricating system it is designed for. A few queries:

-Is it possible to take off the steering arm lever without using the special tool 600590? I am hoping I can simply take off the four bolts that hold it to the housing and then line it back up when needing to put it back on. This would also allow me access to the swivel pin bearing and shims.

-Should I plan on replacing the swivel pin bearing while I have this apart? I will order all the parts at once, so any feedback is appreciated.

-It looks like a fair bit of extra work to get to the SWIVEL PIN HOUSING TO AXLE HOUSING Gasket R232413. Does this typically leak? If not I'd rather not take off the swivel pin housing to get to it.

-Here is the list a local group has as their front swivel kit. Anything else you reckon I need?
R232413 GASKET SWIVEL BALL TO AXLE HOUSING
FRC2906 FIBER THRUST WASHER FOR UPPER PIN
R539742 UPPER RAILKO BUSH
R217268 LOWER PIN BEARING
RTC3528 SWIVEL HOUSING SEAL
R576583 UPPER PIN
R531433 LOWER PIN 'O' RING
R277289 STUB AXLE GASKET
R531001 (4)LOCK TABS FOR UPPER & LOWER SWIVEL PIN BOLTS
R217353 LOCK TAB WASHER FOR WHEEL HUB NUTS
R231505 DRIVE FLANGE GASKET
RTC3516 'O' RING FOR DRIVE FLANGE (FRONT 109")
RTC3515 FELT SEAL BETWEEN AXLE/DRIVE FLANGE (FRONT 88")
R219098 METAL HUB CAP

-There's heaps of grease in there and the UJoint is covered in grease. I will just clean this up the best I can......Any tips?

Thanks for any help you guys can offer! I am hoping to get the parts ordered tomorrow so I can get this sorted by the end of the week.

Cheers,
JRW

[Blknight.aus]

yes its a good idea to replace the bearing. but if its not showing signs of excessive wear pitting or other damage you can let sleeping dogs lie providing you can achieve the correct preload on it.

to replace the bearing you usually wind up having to put it in a press which means hiring the hulk to hold up the front of the vehicle to the press so you can press the bearing out OR removing the ball housing from the axle in which case, yes you need to replace the gasket in question.

no, that particular gasket doesnt normally leak unless you mess with the bolts, (see above answer) and it can be omitted and replaced with a good quality formagasket.

[neophyteguy]

Thanks mate! It seems like for the sake of a few bolts and a gasket that I should probably just take off the ball housing, have the bearing pressed out/in and just knowing I did things correctly. It seems like this shouldn't radically change the amount of work which I need to do overall.

There is a mechanic's shop who has a shop near here. Is it pretty reasonable to think that any mech around should have the gear to press out the bearings? I also need him to punch out/in the inner races for the wheel bearings.........

Any idea about this query I had? "-Is it possible to take off the steering arm lever without using the special tool 600590? I am hoping I can simply take off the four bolts that hold it to the housing and then line it back up when needing to put it back on. This would also allow me access to the swivel pin bearing and shims."

Thanks again!
JRW

[JDNSW]

Thanks mate! It seems like for the sake of a few bolts and a gasket that I should probably just take off the ball housing, have the bearing pressed out/in and just knowing I did things correctly. It seems like this shouldn't radically change the amount of work which I need to do overall.

There is a mechanic's shop who has a shop near here. Is it pretty reasonable to think that any mech around should have the gear to press out the bearings? I also need him to punch out/in the inner races for the wheel bearings.........

Any idea about this query I had? "-Is it possible to take off the steering arm lever without using the special tool 600590? I am hoping I can simply take off the four bolts that hold it to the housing and then line it back up when needing to put it back on. This would also allow me access to the swivel pin bearing and shims."

Thanks again!
JRW

This tool is used to disconnect the steering arm from the tie rod end. Suitable pullers can be bought from most auto supply places, or you can simply loosen the nut and give the side of the eye a good whack with a hammer, which will usually release it.

Note when removing the arm that one bolt is a special fitted bolt which should be kept in the same location.

John

[neophyteguy]

Thanks John!

So are you saying that I will need to take off the steering arm from the tie rod end in order to perform the work or was your response more of an FYI?

I was hoping I could undo the four bolts that connect the steering rod arm to the housing and then turn the steering in order to clear the arm from the housing area?

EDIT: John I realised it is possible to get the work on the diff sorted without removing the ball joint.........Now it seems as though I will have to take it off any ways so I can adjust the shims!

Cheers,
JRW

[neophyteguy]

So today I was able to get the swivel pin housing broken down and cleaned. Everything went pretty well overall. However, I once again have a few questions as I will be putting things back together on Thursday.

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can offer!

- The manual states that the resistance to the rotation of the swivel pin should be 12-14 lbs "after having overcome inertia". What exactly does the overcoming inertia blurb mean?

- I am assuming that it is best to grease the half shaft bearing, swivel hub oil seal, swivel pin bearing, and the inner and out wheel bearings. Can someone confirm this is all that actually needs to have grease applied?

- The manual states 1.75L of oil to replenish the front diff. Would you recommend putting a bit more/less than this in as everything is new in the system?

- A couple of the studs on the bottom of the swivel hub pulled out when I removed the nuts. Is it best to put something like "aviation sealant" on these when I put them back in? I noticed the holes actually go all the way through the hub and could potentially leak.

Thanks again in advance for any responses!!

JRW

[Blknight.aus]

what the rotational effort means is after you have started the housing moving and while it is still moving the resistance should be between 12+14LB measured at the ball joint socket of the arm.

its always a good idea to pack all bearings with grease appropriate to the application based on the oil used

80/90 or 85/140 or heavier use normal wheel bearing, high temp/high pressure grease
10/30-20/50 use Vaseline
10/30 or lighter and I tend to pack the bearings by heating up a tub of engine rebuild lube and dropping the bearing in then fishing it out.

nope fill the sections up to the normal levels then check them after a few KM. dont forget that you will need to pack the wheel bearings with grease and provide a reserve of grease if you intend to utilise the one shot grease in the swivel hubs.

I wouldnt use hylomar #4 on the studs, I would be using loctite 262 to locate the studs and letting it setup for at least an hour prior to putting the oil in.

[neophyteguy]

Thanks again Blknight!

Are you suggesting to use the one shot in the swivel hubs? I had planned on just using the same oil as the diffs, but happy to follow the advice of others......

Cheers,
JRW

[Blknight.aus]

this has been covered several times, like all things it depends on which evil you wish to deal with when it comes to maintaining your rover.

I favor oil filled hubs.

[Gumnut]

Hi,

Back to one of the earlier questions, the tapered roller bearings nearly always get pitted in the straight ahead position. I have never had too much trouble getting them out and replacing them.
A fishing scale or spring balance is ideal to measure resistance. The "overcome inertia" comment means ignore the spike to get it moving. Leave the big seal off til its right.

Cheers,

Andy

[neophyteguy]

I will go for the oil filled hubs then.......That was initial plan any ways.

Andy, I plan to replace the bearings as both my swivel balls were scored and needed to be replaced so I planned to do the bearings too. Jeez those balls are exxy!

[Gumnut]

You sound so very surprised something to do with a rattley old landy is exxy!!

I did get some swivel hubs rechromed a few years ago. I think it was about 1/4 the price of new. It only took a week or so, and gosh they looked sexxy!

Andy

[neophyteguy]

......apologies for the repost above!

Parts are arriving tomorrow, so I'll get stuck in over the next couple of days.

Any other tips for sealing this thing up properly from those of you who have done a few?

Cheers,
JRW

[JDNSW]

......apologies for the repost above!

Parts are arriving tomorrow, so I'll get stuck in over the next couple of days.

Any other tips for sealing this thing up properly from those of you who have done a few?

Cheers,
JRW


When fitting the big seals (after setting the preload), fill the groove on the seal with grease. put sealant round the outside of the seal, and carefully centralise the seal on the ball before tightening the screws on the retaining ring.

John

[neophyteguy]

Thanks as always John!

When you say on the outside of the seal, are you talking about where it fits into the plate that holds the seal in place?

When I pulled things apart, the seal was stuck into the Swivel Pin Housing Assembly. Should I expect that the seal plate (oil seal retainer) will push the seal into the housing or do I need to seat the seal into the housing and then put the "Oil Seal Retainer" on?

Thanks again guys!
JRW

[Lotz-A-Landies]

JRW

Yes John means where the outside of the seal fits into the recess at the back of the swivel housing. Many of the leaks that people experience with their swivels are not caused by oil getting between the chrome ball and the seal lips, but by oil bypassing around the back of the seal.

Before you do anything up, check that you have set up the preload correctly and most importantly centred the housing on the ball, if the ball and housing are not centred the seal will not seat correctly and will leak.

You check for centering by offering the seal up to the ball and checking that it seats evenly all the way around in the recess at the back of the housing*, before doing up the retaining plate. If it is not centred, you need to take shims out of the top and put them in the bottom (or vica versa) and re-check for pre-load and centering.

Diana

* there will be a little tension as the seal lips press against the ball but the pressure should be even all the way around.

[neophyteguy]

Worked late last night trying to get the front diff back together, but have an urgent question:

When installing the swivel seal, does it actually recess into the housing or does the seal plate hold it in place?I couldnt get the seal to actually go into the housing, so I am hoping it mates up to the edge and is held into place by the retainer plate?

If it does need to actualy go into the housing, any tips on getting it to go in?

Thanks as I am off this morning in hopes I can get the vehicle back on the road today.

Cheers,
JRW

[JDNSW]

The seal goes into the recess - I have never had a problem getting one in - just needs to be straight. It won't go all the way in until the retaining rings screws are tight, as you are tensioning the lips against the ball. If you can't get it in check the centralising as Diana mentioned.

John

[neophyteguy]

John,
I was able to get the retainer ring on, but the seal wasn't really recessed when I was putting it on. Would I be right in saying the plate will pull the seal into place or does the seal need to be placed inside the opening (so that the inner/towards centre of vehicle- part of the seal is even with the face of the swivel hub?

The seal plate was certainly a snug fit when I put it on, so I had hoped it pulled the seal into place. I also used silicon around the lip of the plate as you guys recommended.

I guess my concern is I wonder if this should fit like the other oil seal which fits completely inside the hub?

Cheers,
JRW

[JDNSW]

John,
I was able to get the retainer ring on, but the seal wasn't really recessed when I was putting it on. Would I be right in saying the plate will pull the seal into place or does the seal need to be placed inside the opening (so that the inner/towards centre of vehicle- part of the seal is even with the face of the swivel hub?

The seal plate was certainly a snug fit when I put it on, so I had hoped it pulled the seal into place. I also used silicon around the lip of the plate as you guys recommended.

I guess my concern is I wonder if this should fit like the other oil seal which fits completely inside the hub?

Cheers,
JRW

The seal should have the towards-the-wheel edge of the outer circumference pulled hard against the shoulder of the recess (this will normally mean the outside is about level with the back of the housing). Both sides should be the same, and if they are not, you should determine why they are not. Some possibilities include burrs or foreign objects in the recess or damage to the seal. Check the depth of the recess versus the height of the seal.

John

[neophyteguy]

John,
It appears to be sitting evenly around the ball, so I am happy that it is centred.

My concern was that the seal needed to fit into the housing, which I now realise it doesn't. The seal is firmly up against the housing and would have pulled in some as I tightened up the plate.

I wire brushed/cleaned everything to ensure the surfaces were all smooth/clean before putting it back together.

Thanks again for your help!

[neophyteguy]

Thanks to everyone for your help in having gotten this sorted! I was able to get everything bolted up and feel reasonably assured things are as they should be.

It was a very worthwhile experience and now I truly believe it is one of the best ways to figure out how the front diff actually works! I had a couple of friends stop around while I was underneath the beast and they all commented on how complicated the swivels, etc. looked. I just let them keep believing it............:-)

Thanks again!

I'm starting a new thread for another issue as I feel quite sure it has nothing to do with the work which was just performed.

Cheers,
JRW