Size of Koni & Bilstein Shocks vs genuine LR ones

[SG1]

Hello,
I am considering buying a set of either Koni Heavytrack SPX shock absorbers or an equivalent in Bilstein in order to replace my genuine Land Rover ones.
The thing is I need to know the length and diameter of the Koni's and Bilsteins in orfer to be sure they will fit with my current suspension setup.

This is because my Defender 110 Td5 (built in 1999) has a small home-made lift: 3.3 cms done using spacers beneath the springs. In the back there is no problem because the shock absorbers go outside the spring, But in the front I am afraid that longer or wider shocks may not fit.

Does anybody have a picture that compares the size of genuine LR shocks vs Koni Heavy Track SPX or Bilsteins? Or the length and diameter of the Koni's?

By the way: does anybody know the difference between the Koni HT and the Koni HT SPX shocks? According to Koni's specification sheet my Defende 110 shoul go with the SPX ones but I do not know the reason.

Thanks in advance!
Cheers,
Santiago, Mendoza, Argentina

[frantic]

Here's a link that will give you the standard length and from there you can figure out if you either want to get a longer shock, move the shock mounts up or make the rubber bump stops bigger to fit a longer shock.
land rover shock specifications (http://members.shaw.ca/red90/shockinfo.html)

Here you can find the sizes of the 6 and 7 series billies:

Bilstein (http://www.bilsteinus.com/offroad.php)

You can go either standard OME shocks or fit a kit like Gwyn lewis with N73L (now called 60070L) shock and adaptors for the rear:
Challenge Kit Gwyn Lewis 4x4 Challenge Suspension Kit can be fitted to Defender 90, 110, Discovery 1, RRC. The lift kit for winch challenge competitions, off road events. (http://www.gwynlewis4x4.co.uk/page56a.html)

[landrover dave]

Hello,
I am considering buying a set of either Koni Heavytrack SPX shock absorbers or an equivalent in Bilstein in order to replace my genuine Land Rover ones.
The thing is I need to know the length and diameter of the Koni's and Bilsteins in orfer to be sure they will fit with my current suspension setup.

This is because my Defender 110 Td5 (built in 1999) has a small home-made lift: 3.3 cms done using spacers beneath the springs. In the back there is no problem because the shock absorbers go outside the spring, But in the front I am afraid that longer or wider shocks may not fit.

Does anybody have a picture that compares the size of genuine LR shocks vs Koni Heavy Track SPX or Bilsteins? Or the length and diameter of the Koni's?

By the way: does anybody know the difference between the Koni HT and the Koni HT SPX shocks? According to Koni's specification sheet my Defende 110 shoul go with the SPX ones but I do not know the reason.

Thanks in advance!
Cheers,
Santiago, Mendoza, Argentina
Personally you will be better off with Koni oil shocks not the SPX, as they have a longer life span. Both Koni and Bilstein shocks to suit a std vehicle are same length as the factory shocks.

[SG1]

Thanks guys!

Dave,
When you say fitting Koni oil shocks do you mean the Koni Heavy Tracks?

[Frenchie]

I crawled under the Defender last night to see if I could work out the model number of my Bilsteins, it was getting dark, they are quite dirty and my eyesight ain't what it used to be, this is what I came up with:

Front: F4-B45-0243-H3
Rear: K4-6ES-6220-M0

I've trawled through the Bilstein specs and even allowing for the fact that I probably misread BE5 as B45 & 6ES :angel:, and possibly 6243 as 0243 I can't find those numbers anywhere.

[rick130]

Personally you will be better off with Koni oil shocks not the SPX, as they have a longer life span. Both Koni and Bilstein shocks to suit a std vehicle are same length as the factory shocks.

:confused:

An 'SPX' suffix Koni is just a low pressure gas version of a standard 82 series twin tube damper.

[SG1]

Thanks guys.

As it is easier to get the OME shocks here in Argentina I am currently considering buying the OME 60037 and OME 60039 for my Defender 110, without modifying springs.

Does anybody know if they fit in a standard Defender without any mods?
In other words are they the same lenght and diamter of the original Defender shocks?

Nevertheless I am a bit concerned about the fact that the OME shocks come with poliurethane bushes, which I do not like for the suspension of the Defender in general (I prefer rubber ones, based on bad experience with Polybushes). Do the poliurethane bushes of the OME shocks restrict articulation or cause any trouble (stifness?)?

If I go for OME shocks I will probably add an OMESD32 steering damper to my purchase. Does anybody have any negative opinion with respect to this steering damper? I currently have an old Britpart one which needs replacement and the idea is improvng in this respect.

I haven't driven much around Australia (been there just once) but I imagine that your washboard dirt roads may ressemble the rough dirt roads we have in Argentina and that's one of the several reasons why I am interested on your opinions about shocks for the Defender.


Thanks for your help!
Cheers
Stgo

[Michael2]

I had the OME shocks on the back of my Defender, with a 2" spring lift. The shocks restricted downward travel, allowing only 3cm of extension. The springs had another 10cm of extension in them before they even looked like dislocating.

I ended up replacing them with Bilsteins. A full discussion of the process is on the following link.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/50927-shock-absorbers-rear-110-a.html

I hope that helps.

[SG1]

Michael 2,

Thanks for the data.
I was about to buy a set of OME Nitrocharger Sports but after reading a bit about cases where they (OME) restrict axle articulation and also after receiving a response from a provider of Koni shocks from the States (Ultrarev) I am still considering buying either the Koni HT SPX or the Knoi Raids.

Does anybody know if the Koni SPX's and Raids use rubber bushes instead of poliurethane ones?

Is it true that if I fit Koni Raids they may touch against the coil in the front when under full axle articulation because of their significantly larger diameter?

Anybody knows if the Koni Raids require regular maintenance as do the OME LTR shocks?

I hope to take a decision and buy them between today and tomorrow.
Any advice on this will be really appreciated!
Cheers,
Stgo

[rick130]

First up, 'standard' Koni's will only allow the same travel as 'standard' OME's or Bilsteins, they will all be within a few mm of each other in opened and closed lengths.

If you are only after a stock setup any of the three will be fine.

Re Michaels comment regarding OME's in his lifted 110, in a 130 the stock Land Rover shock absorber allows less droop travel in a standard 130 without any load in the back.

Please read the thread he linked to. It answers most of your questions.

The aftermarket dampers are just mirroring the standard dampers stroke, and you will find the same thing with any aftermarket damper, unless they are specifically built for long travel suspensions.
Koni's Raid doesn't give any more travel in the long rear version, they just use a longer body so actual stroke is identical, but allows a bit more droop when the rear is lifted 50mm.
The front Raid damper is still standard stroke.
There is a long stroke version of the Bilstein damper available in Australia, but you need to modify the turret and rear top mount to fit it as it has 50mm more stroke than stoke, meaning the damper is 100mm longer than 'normal'.

In the past most of us just used a Koni 82-2385 or OME N73 or N73L in the front to get more travel, (these are from the front of a Toyota Landcruiser 80 Series) but you must lift the towers to fit these dampers or they will go metal to metal (bottom out) on bump, and you must allow 20mm of bump stop compression, or install longer bump stops.

Koni use rubber bushes. They are very good quality. I have a mix of urethane and rubber on the Land Rover without issue. Our Patrol has standard Koni rubbers all round, they last very well.
Urethane is a very good material if the right hardness is used by the manufacturer. I use Super Pro.

The springs may rub a Raid as not all springs are created equally and some flex and banana on compression. generally that's a sign of a less than best quality spring.

[SG1]

Rick130,

Thanks for all those interesting comments.

By the way, I read the thread you refer to, maybe just a bit too fast and may have missed something:(

Based on your comment about the Koni bushes I have almost decided to destroy my bank account and go for the Koni Raids. Can you confirm if the correct Koni Raid dampers for a standard suspension (Defender 110) setup are the 90 5374 (front) and 90 5375 (rear)? I imagine that the longer rear version of the Raids that you refer to is the 90 5401. Is this correct?

A last question:
Do the Koni Raids require regular maintenance as do the OME LTR shocks?
Cheers
Santiago

[rick130]

Rick130,

Thanks for all those interesting comments.

By the way, I read the thread you refer to, maybe just a bit too fast and may have missed something:(

Based on your comment about the Koni bushes I have almost decided to destroy my bank account and go for the Koni Raids. Can you confirm if the correct Koni Raid dampers for a standard suspension (Defender 110) setup are the 90 5374 (front) and 90 5375 (rear)? I imagine that the longer rear version of the Raids that you refer to is the 90 5401. Is this correct?


Yep.


A last question:
Do the Koni Raids require regular maintenance as do the OME LTR shocks?
Cheers
Santiago

AFAIK Raids are bolt in and drive forever, the only 'maintenance' I can think of an LTR needs is the nitrogen pressure checked occasionally ?

[dmdigital]

Koni Raids: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/94646-big-red.html

As for the part numbers, yes, that is correct for standard height Defender 110 and is what I have fitted.

[slug_burner]

the HT Raids are that big and heavy you will need to derate the paylod of your vehicle:D only joking but they are heavy.

That is a pretty good price at Ultrarev. I tried to have some sent from the US but did not have any success as Koni appear to guard the country specific dealer recommended price. In Aus it is approx AUS$600 a corner.

[dmdigital]

They aren't that heavy! Only about 8kg a corner :o

[SG1]

DMdigital,
I've read your thread on the Koni Raids and it has ended up convincing me to buy them. I am going for them.
I hope to buy them fast so that I do not change my mind after realizing how much I am spending.....:o

Cheers,
Stgo

[SG1]

So I finally bought 4 Koni Raids for my D110 from Ultrarev in the US.
Thanks to those who convinced me to go for the Raids;)

The Raids are currently in short supply so I will not receive them until around mid-December.

In the meantime I am studying how I will connect them to my suspension setup and I want to ask a couple of questions to see your opinions on this.

Facts are:
1) My Defender is lifted 3.3cms, both in the front and in the rear. Its lifted by means of suplements (aluminium discs) that go underneath the springs.

2) I want to keep the same lift with the Koni Raids.

3) The genuine shock absorbers I currently have (well, they are Armstrong in the back and genuine LR in the front) have been fitted in a way to maintain their travel.
The upper mount of the rear shock absorbers has been lowered exactly 3.3 cms so that the shocks work as in the factory setup.
The base of the front shock absorbers is raised 3.3cms so that they also have the same travel as in the factory setup and the shocks have no problem either in compression or in extension.

4) With the only exception of a misalignment of the rear shock absorbers caused by the steel plate used to lower the rear upper shock mounts (which moves the eye of the shock way to much towards the outside), everything else works fine.

5) My current suspension articulation is fine for my needs and I do not want to improve it. I do not need more droop, I just want to install better (MUCH BETTER!) shocks while keeping my 3.3cm lift and current suspension articulation.


Questions:
A) Should I just replace my current shocks with Koni Raids and leave everything as it is or will I benefit from returning the upper shock mount of the rear shocks back to its original position while at the same time keeping the 3.3cm lift?
I ask this because the Koni catalog specifies that the Koni Raids 90 5375 (which I bought for the rear) are designed to be installed in vehicles with suspension setups ranging between standard and a 4 centimeter lift.

B) Same question for the front.
I bought the Koni Raids 90 5374 which according to the catalog are designed to be fitted to Defenders with suspension arrangements ranging between standard setup and a 5 centimeter lift.

I am tempted to remove the extension of the rear shock upper mounts (which as it is lowers the eye of the shock 3.3cms) and maybe the same for the front ones (remove the base that lifts the shock) but I do not know the pros and cons of this.

I am a beginner in terms of suspension setups so any help will be appreciated.

If I am missing important information that is required in order to understand the issues involved please let me know.

Finally, in case it is better to install the Koni shocks with the current setup I will have to correct the misalignment of the rear shocks. Does anybody know if there is a company which builds and sells modified shocks mounts for the rear shocks just as the one sthat "Expedition Exchange" sells (Expedition Exchange Incorporated :: Suspension (http://www.expeditionexchange.com/cart/home.php?cat=272)) but designed to lower the shock mount around 3 to 3.5 cms instead of 2 inches (>5 mcs). I am afraid that using the "Expedition Exchange" ones will be too much lowering and may cause other problems (on compression?).
Thanks and sorry for so many questions! :confused:
Santiago

[SG1]

Maybe this picture helps understand the way in which the upper shock mounts of my rear shock absorbers have been modified in order to lower the eye of the shock by 3.3cms.

30293


The second picture may illustrate the misalignment of the rear shock absorber caused by the, in my opinion, incorrect upper shock mount geometry. The misalignment is exagerated by the full extension of the shock.

30294

[SG1]

Any suggestions guys?

[frantic]

Have a look in the add's at the top of the page as terrafirrma have front shock tower mounts both lowered and raised by 2 inches(50mm) that are copies of the shock system by gwyn lewis in wales: Suspension (http://www.gwynlewis4x4.co.uk/page6.html)

With dropping the shock mounting points the main prob you may have is that on full compresion you could over compress the shock with the piston trying to push to far up into the body, just check if or how much the rubber bump stops would have to compress before the shock was fully compressed.