X eng deflex kit

[rovercare]

Righto, Drew at Hiline4wd has been in contact with Rovacraft about these for me and looks to have a price of $600ish landed in aus via sea freight,

X-eng High Performance Off-Road Engineering (http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Deflex.asp)

The price may vary a little according to the dollar at the time

But far cheaper than the $800+ landed direct from x eng:eek:

[rovercare]

Put my name on the list :) I've been trying to design something like this for a while now. I think $600 is well cheaper. The only question I have is, has anyone investigated if it can be engineer approved?

Cheers,

Can't answer that one sorry John, Andrew was thinking the same about making something till I quizzed him about getting them in:)

[Grimace]

looks like a good bit of gear.

Just want to clarify if you do not have the factory sway bars then you need to change axles housing and make mounts on the chassis. correct?

[Slunnie]

So thats an axle half shaft and a locking hub????

Well I'll be stuffed! Awesome.

[rovercare]

looks like a good bit of gear.

Just want to clarify if you do not have the factory sway bars then you need to change axles housing and make mounts on the chassis. correct?

Yea, I'd say yes, I've never paid enough attention to see which rover chassis had the flat plates to mount the sway bar, but if you don't have the diff mounts, you can buy them from 'ere

055 o s Rear anti roll bar bracket (http://www.yrm-metal-solutions.co.uk/055-os-rear-anti-roll-bar-bracket-201-p.asp)

Which I'll also be making a large buy from, so Myself and Vern can attempt to build a couple of front salisbury's:twisted:

[bully130]

can it be fitted to a 130 with a long range tank?
if so i would be interested in ordering one.
cheers
Ian

[rovercare]

can it be fitted to a 130 with a long range tank?
if so i would be interested in ordering one.
cheers
Ian

I'd suggest you'd have to lower it to clear the tank with longer bolts and spacers, whether that's a good idea would depend on the driving you do, good for a tourer, not so much for a play thing I'd be thinking:)

[5teve]

for your interest my 110 extreme 2002 doesnt have sway bars but does have the mounts front and rear on the chassis..

and just checked the rear axle (rover type) and it has the bracketry on there already..

Thanks

Steve

[B92 8NW]

For the stupid questions. Is it for use on front, rear or both?

That price is for one end, I assume with confidence?

[rick130]

LOL, I sat down and designed one years ago with a sliding/locking spline on one end but the X-Eng one is much simpler and therefore better :D
Actually his is much, much better, it's real, mine never got off the drawing board. :lol2:

I reckon it's too stiff for the rear only though, it'd make things really taily for most Landies, you'd need one up front for balance but it's probably about right for a heavily loaded 130.

BTW, look under the back end of a GQ Ti spec Patrol wagon and they used a disconnecting drop link on the rear ARB with a cable and lever under the dash so you could lock/unlock on the move.
Worked well ;)

[JohnR]

For the stupid questions. Is it for use on front, rear or both?

That price is for one end, I assume with confidence?

Rear only and therefore yes, only one end for that price.

Cheers,

[Rangier Rover]

PM sent, will work great along with air suspension.
I'm just going to run a stock disco front bar for a wile.

[rick130]

PM sent, will work great along with air suspension.
I'm just going to run a stock disco front bar for a wile.

Tony, just be aware that when running long travel front shocks the front driveshaft hits the front ARB.
I found this when I first fitted longer dampers in the front of mine.
Luckily I did it in the workshop, just cycling the front end to see what fouled.

[rovercare]

Ok, some bad news on this one, they have refabricated the delflex jiggers and they'll be around $700 landed, Drew has ordered 5 regardless, I'll still be definately getting one, it sounds as though the price has risen on them in the UK, something to do with not fitting all rovers, so anyhow, there whould be a few available, if your still interested, I'll earmark them for you:)

[wisey110]

Ok how do i put my name down for one of these PM me please

[rovercare]

Ok, for whom ever wants one, scream out now, there will be five here in the new year, 1 for myself, 1 for tony, Andrew has 1 for a customer, so 2 left, list you want one here, if there is more than 2 of you, we'll get another order underway

JohnR and Wisey110 still keen?

[Rangier Rover]

Ok, for whom ever wants one, scream out now, there will be five here in the new year, 1 for myself, 1 for tony, Andrew has 1 for a customer, so 2 left, list you want one here, if there is more than 2 of you, we'll get another order underway

JohnR and Wisey110 still keen?

Yep, still want mine.... may need it once the 4BD1 is better tuned:eek: It's only money:eek: Still cheaper than laying the 120 on its side one day!

I'll PM you soon:cool:

[Rangier Rover]

Thought I may bump this one up, Matt and I have fitted our deflex bars with mixed results.
So far Matt is going OK AFAIK

We had a little disaster with mine as the curved arm bent in under the chassis within 15KMS of use:eek: Mine had a deasent load on the tray when this happened.:eek:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1397.jpg

I'll post the out come here for future reference.

[Rangier Rover]

Looks like I'm the first in the world to destroy one of their products:o I must weigh all this stuff I carry oneday:angel:

Here is the return email from today. I must say very good product back up.:)

Snip
We're impressed! When we ran the stress analysis on the system, it was one of the possible failure modes. We discounted it because it would require a standard land rover to be overloaded - and be cornering at an improbable speed. We just thought "it will never happen!".

Our prototype was fitted to a One Ton, 110 Doublecab filled with 1 ton of concrete slabs. We drove it for six months fully laden and tried our best to break it - but failed. X-Eng is based on a dairy farm in the south of England. Obviously we don't have anywhere near the space you have, but the tracks round the farm are a good testing ground for things like this being half way between on and off road.

Interesting truck by the way - we don't have much like it in the UK.

Anyway, what to do about it! In the short term, if you want it not to be an expensive paperweight, I would weld a gusset on the outside of the curved bar (facing away from the chassis) to stiffen it a bit. Like that it should be OK.

There are two possible solutions that we can implement. Since you do not appear to have the exhaust passing above the curved bar (which is why that bar is curved, to clear the exhaust) we could make you another straight bar with the correct hole patterns to be a drop-in replacement.

Alternatively, if you do need a curved bar, the strongest option is to make a laminate out of two pieces of 6mm plate joined together by the bolts which normally pass through the plate. A laminate sandwich is torsionally much stronger than a single plate the same combined thickness.

Obviously we'll make and ship this for free.

Has your friend suffered the same problem? If it's fitted to a more standard configuration truck, I'm confident that it will be OK (but happy to be proven wrong!).

Let me know what you prefer and we'll get on it straight away!

Kind regards,

[isuzurover]

I knew Simon would come through.




Our prototype was fitted to a One Ton, 110 Doublecab filled with 1 ton of concrete slabs. We drove it for six months fully laden and tried our best to break it - but failed.

However - 1 ton (1.024 Tonne) in a 110 is a lot less than 1.5 Tonne in a 130 (or 120).

So Tony - sounds like you get to claim the hardest working landie in the world (with an x-eng sway bar fitted). ;)

[justinc]

'Has your friend suffered the same problem? If it's fitted to a more standard configuration truck, I'm confident that it will be OK (but happy to be proven wrong!).'

:p:p:p:p:p You're avin a larf, guv!! Matts 120, Standard configuration?? Maybe you should send in some pics so they get the general gist...:eek::D

Great service though, LR need to learn something here:)

JC

[isuzurover]

'Has your friend suffered the same problem? If it's fitted to a more standard configuration truck, I'm confident that it will be OK (but happy to be proven wrong!).'

:p:p:p:p:p You're avin a larf, guv!! Matts 120, Standard configuration?? Maybe you should send in some pics so they get the general gist...:eek::D

Great service though, LR need to learn something here:)

JC

Indeed - Matt - sounds like you have an invitation to go and drive the nearest MX track with a subaru brumby strapped to the tray :D

[Rangier Rover]

^^^^:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:^^^^ What have I done:eek:

Anyway, Simon and I have bounced some emails and pics etc to determine where it gave out and what strength will be needed without using a truss out of the Sydney harbour bridge:lol2: Remember all this weight has to be controlled buy our shocks!

So the simple permanent out come may be to laminate two 6mm arms with bolts and retain the curve so still fits with an exhaust rather than re-engineering the arm or making another straight arm fit the drive hub.
Will be more than twice the strength!

Not much will happen here for a few weeks as X-Eng are closing for holidays till 21st feb. Comp truck time?

I'm welding a brace to mine to get going in the mean time.

[isuzutoo-eh]

With after sales back up like that, I'd have no qualms buying from them :)

[Rangier Rover]

With after sales back up like that, I'd have no qualms buying from them :)

Yep, me too. I'll be shopping there when I do the Rangies suspension!

Also. As JC hinted,,, if LR had backup like this I would likely be driving a Late Disco or Phewma as my family ride rather than a Thai built Japer.;)

[rovercare]

Indeed - Matt - sounds like you have an invitation to go and drive the nearest MX track with a subaru brumby strapped to the tray :D

Can't......brumby is solded:(

I've seen Tony's thing and the work it does and I think he still has the crown for working his to the bone, don't get me wrong, I'll abuse the **** out of mine, but tony's does it day in, day out.......and I haven't bent mine yet:D

[wagoo]

Is the halfshaft that is suppplied with the kit an original LandRover item, or has it been made like a proper torsion bar with the shaft diameter necked down between the splines?
Wagoo.

[Rangier Rover]

Is the halfshaft that is suppplied with the kit an original LandRover item, or has it been made like a proper torsion bar with the shaft diameter necked down between the splines?
Wagoo.

Here's the answer.....

Snip
They start off as a bog standard half shaft. We have them annealed to remove the original heat treatment then they go through a new cycle (not sure of the exact details) which effectively increases the spring rate - reaching max torque after 90 deg rather than the original 180 deg.

The breaking torque remains about the same - but it is a fair bit stiffer and the reaction torque on the vehicle climbs faster than an off the shelf shaft.

Kind regards,


Cheers Tony

[Rangier Rover]

^^^^:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:^^^^ What have I done:eek:

Anyway, Simon and I have bounced some emails and pics etc to determine where it gave out and what strength will be needed without using a truss out of the Sydney harbour bridge:lol2: Remember all this weight has to be controlled buy our shocks!

So the simple permanent out come may be to laminate two 6mm arms with bolts and retain the curve so still fits with an exhaust rather than re-engineering the arm or making another straight arm fit the drive hub.
Will be more than twice the strength!

Not much will happen here for a few weeks as X-Eng are closing for holidays till 21st feb. Comp truck time?

I'm welding a brace to mine to get going in the mean time.

Pics soon. I welded a gusset along the inside curve, not the strongest but neater. So far OK. Has lasted over two hours:)

The laminate idea can only be 3mm thick so only 4X as strong.

A gusset on the out side 25X3mm close to 6X.

I can see clearance issues with the gusset out side so went inside, I don't have CAD to work it all out but may be at least 4X as strong at a guess.

Looks promising now!

How it drives..... With just over a ton on now corners like it would have with no load. The ride is firmer due to the torsion bar effect. Still OK though. On a very rough road I would disengage it if possible. But great on the black top:D

[wagoo]

Here's the answer.....

Snip
They start off as a bog standard half shaft. We have them annealed to remove the original heat treatment then they go through a new cycle (not sure of the exact details) which effectively increases the spring rate - reaching max torque after 90 deg rather than the original 180 deg.

The breaking torque remains about the same - but it is a fair bit stiffer and the reaction torque on the vehicle climbs faster than an off the shelf shaft.

Kind regards,


Cheers Tony

Thanks,I suppose Simon knows what he's doing,and he does make some good stuff, but I'm surprised the axle wasn't necked down to a constant diameter over its whole length between the splines and smooth finished so that the torsional deflection is distributed more evenly. And even without hindsight,6mm thick material for those link arms does seem a bit light.

Anyone know what the calculation for single wheel bump spring rate is for axles fitted with anti roll bars ? Isn't it the sum of both left and right hand side springs plus the rate of the antiroll bar ?If so that certainly would account for the firmer ride.
Wagoo.
Wagoo.

[Rangier Rover]

Pics soon. I welded a gusset along the inside curve, not the strongest but neater. So far OK. Has lasted over two hours:)

The laminate idea can only be 3mm thick so only 4X as strong.

A gusset on the out side 25X3mm close to 6X.

I can see clearance issues with the gusset out side so went inside, I don't have CAD to work it all out but may be at least 4X as strong at a guess.

Looks promising now!

How it drives..... With just over a ton on now corners like it would have with no load. The ride is firmer due to the torsion bar effect. Still OK though. On a very rough road I would disengage it if possible. But great on the black top:D


At last.... some pics of the gusset added to the curved arm.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1395.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/1187.jpg


Have done about 800k's so far and not bent it again.

I'm not happy with yet as tends to work its way to one side a bit. The arm my have a slight twist in it? When I get time I'll pull it off and investigate.

Still drives like a dime with the load on. Much safer now at higher speeds.


Cheers T

[PAT303]

Why aren't you on LR's development team Tony?,they would be bullet proof. Pat

[rovercare]

Not to be outdone by Tony, mine is bent now also:D

[isuzurover]

Not to be outdone by Tony, mine is bent now also:D

You did strap a car on the back and go for a drive didn't you ;) :D

[rovercare]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1396.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/403.jpg

Just about to shoot Simon an email, hopefully he'll send 2 arms and sandwich them together

One thing, you certainly notice its not in there:eek:

And another random bending seeing as I'm loadingpics

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/404.jpg

[Rangier Rover]

Not to be outdone by Tony, mine is bent now also:D

Bugger, I thought yours may have survived:(

Simon is not real keen on the airbags as I have found out and no doubt you will too.
Although our set up is progressive, solid works shows they're not as progressive as a coil spring at a given pressure.:confused: I wont post all the facts here as yet:angel:

Mine has been no drama so far with the brace welded in. Had over 1.5 tons on till now so fair test.

The laminate should sort it anyway.

Cheers T

[TonyC]

Tony, Mat.

Have you thought about running a "normal" sway bar and cross linking the air springs when you want less roll stiffness?

Tony

[isuzurover]

Simon is not real keen on the airbags as I have found out and no doubt you will too.
Although our set up is progressive, solid works shows they're not as progressive as a coil spring at a given pressure.:confused: I wont post all the facts here as yet:angel:


??? Standard coils are not progressive at all - they are linear!

Btw - surely Simon is selling these for air suspended RRCs and Discos???

[Rangier Rover]

??? Standard coils are not progressive at all - they are linear!

Btw - surely Simon is selling these for air suspended RRCs and Discos???

My bad, just the way his model on the airbag set up is less linear if you like:o
So the bags should be better at what we do right?
He may have been pointing out at a given ride height/pressure the air spring could be causing more stress to the deflex than a "linear" coil would in the same application.

Must do the maths on all this my self. May have some interesting findings I seem to think.:confused:

Sadly my main PC had a melt down so cant dig up the emails for discussion as yet. Should get it back up next week I hope.

Simon is still amazed we have bent these things and is looking for a cause as their test vehicle failed to do so wile fully loaded and under heavy use.

Feel free to add any input on this Ben:) You may be better working the logistics out than me.:)

Cheers T

[Rangier Rover]

Why after all this time move this to market place alerts now:confused::confused:

Matt or I may start a new thread in a more appropriate place and merge the relevant posts as this will be ongoing till sorted;) Or just bury it in our build threads so no one can find it any more.:lol2:

[isuzurover]

My bad, just the way his model on the airbag set up is less linear if you like:o
So the bags should be better at what we do right?
He may have been pointing out at a given ride height/pressure the air spring could be causing more stress to the deflex than a "linear" coil would in the same application.

Must do the maths on all this my self. May have some interesting findings I seem to think.:confused:

Sadly my main PC had a melt down so cant dig up the emails for discussion as yet. Should get it back up next week I hope.

Simon is still amazed we have bent these things and is looking for a cause as their test vehicle failed to do so wile fully loaded and under heavy use.

Feel free to add any input on this Ben:) You may be better working the logistics out than me.:)

Cheers T


I too think it was strange this has been moved to marketplace alerts... It is certainly a tech thread now. Maybe move it to the modified zone or whatever it is called if it needs moving...

Anyway, back to physics.

I am not 100% sure what he is getting at - is he trying to say the airbag can shock load the arm???

He might be talking about the increase in spring rate when the bellows get to the bottom of the piston (where it flares out). The spring rate increases quite quickly there.

So if you are driving at speed with a full load on and hit a bump that fully compresses one side, you will get a bigger increase in spring rate at the end than you would with coils...

However since landies come with OEM airbags... maybe Simon tried to make them too lightweight...

[Rangier Rover]

I too think it was strange this has been moved to marketplace alerts... It is certainly a tech thread now. Maybe move it to the modified zone or whatever it is called if it needs moving...

Anyway, back to physics.

I am not 100% sure what he is getting at - is he trying to say the airbag can shock load the arm???

He might be talking about the increase in spring rate when the bellows get to the bottom of the piston (where it flares out). The spring rate increases quite quickly there.

So if you are driving at speed with a full load on and hit a bump that fully compresses one side, you will get a bigger increase in spring rate at the end than you would with coils...

However since landies come with OEM airbags... maybe Simon tried to make them too lightweight...

I seem to recall his model simulated more roll effect for some reason? As to say a coil is a wound up torsion bar etc.


I need access to the emails we exchanged a wile back for discussion:(

I'll email Simon again on this part, we may as well all understand what the cause may be. If it indeed is the air suspension?
In my case the arm bent instantly on the first corner wile the truck was 60% loaded.

Simon has described it as the only possible mode of failure due to the curve put in that arm to accommodate the factory exhaust.

Cheers T

[rovercare]

I better send Simon another email, he never replied to the last

Might gusset the same as yours today Tony, missing not having it, very rolly:eek:

[Rangier Rover]

Why after all this time move this to market place alerts now:confused::confused:

Matt or I may start a new thread in a more appropriate place and merge the relevant posts as this will be ongoing till sorted;) Or just bury it in our build threads so no one can find it any more.:lol2:

Well, this never got moved back somewhere relevant so I wont bother with any up date as none will find it anyway.;)

When I find time, I'll update my 120" thread rather than start another.:)

Must PM Matt soon and see what he had done to date.

[markb]

I have just had an x eng swaybar fitted to my 87 Rangie That i got from hy line in Taralgon. What an amazing difference it has made. So much flatter around corners and alot more stable at speed on the freeway. One of the best mods I have done to date, I would highly recommend it to anyone.

[Rangier Rover]

Hey Matt, any news on your set up? Have done the gusset or gone the laminate?

[rovercare]

Hey Matt, any news on your set up? Have done the gusset or gone the laminate?


Never got a reply, just a gusset the same as yours, works well, to be honest I think the bind issue maybe the extra 30mm in place for the swaybar to clear the bags:angel:

[wagoo]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1396.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/403.jpg

Just about to shoot Simon an email, hopefully he'll send 2 arms and sandwich them together

One thing, you certainly notice its not in there:eek:

And another random bending seeing as I'm loadingpics

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/404.jpg
Just for the exercise, let's 'Workshop' the design of the vertical link.
If you study the design of the link more closely,there is no way that you could expect the lever arm not to permanently bend and twist unless it was much more substantial or made of spring steel. The vertical forces applied from the link to the lever arm are offcentre which imparts a twisting force to the arm. The arms need to be spaced further apart at the torsion bar, equal to the distance between the centre of the balls of the ball joints on the axle.Bending the arms laterally to increase the spacing wont work IMO.And a clevis yoke should be fitted to the top of the link in place of the outrigger bolt to minimise offcentre forces.
Of course there will still be some lesser lateral bending forces applied to the lever arm when the axlegets out of parrallell with the torsion bar with articulation or body roll.
Wagoo.

[Rangier Rover]

At last.... some pics of the gusset added to the curved arm.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1395.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/1187.jpg


Have done about 800k's so far and not bent it again.

I'm not happy with yet as tends to work its way to one side a bit. The arm my have a slight twist in it? When I get time I'll pull it off and investigate.

Still drives like a dime with the load on. Much safer now at higher speeds.


Cheers T

Well, some time has passed since doing this. I haven't worried Simon anymore as the gusset works fine.;) Has been in heavy everyday use with no issues what so ever. Great bit of kit.


T

[fatnold]

deep dig....
any updates here? i have a heavy duty Elbach rear ATB which is nice but am sick to death of the links inverting at max articulation. on a recent trip i ended up removing atb altogether. ooo, that unrestricted articulation was nice. sent me back to thinking about an atb with disconnect. i have air suspension and heavy. ( pop top) those photos and reports of bending the passenger side arm are worrying. also concerned if upward links would give airbag enough clearance. any comments?

[MLD]

i can't comment on the X eng dislocation arm, but like you i'm a heavy 130 on air suspension. Historically i did not run sway bars but with air i find that i need more body roll control than i did with coils. I recently bought, yet to install, the Design Fab Industries torsion bar. After advice from DFI I went with a medium torsion bar. If you want an idea, google the currie Anti-rock torsion bar. Same set up. Must say the DFI kit is completely overkill for my intended use. It's massive, its strong with large hiem joints. It was designed for the comp boys and its build quality reflects that. It assumes you weld on tabs to your diff housing. Instead of that, i bought a Whiteline sway bar link for a D4 that is adjustable and has 12mm stud ball joints which fit both the factory ball joint mount on the diff and the DFI bar. You can get different lengths in the link and Whiteline sell a generic 12mm stud link which is cheaper. i run a long range tank with extensions on the sway bar mount so i only need 110-115mm of vertical rise for a horizontal bar. i only raise this option as an alternative if you wanted a permanent sway bar that will offer a balance between on road manners and off road articulation. Another option is Kingpin Design and Fab who sells a hybrid LR set up.

Whiteline KLC180-115 Sway Bar - Link 110-135mm H/Duty Ball Joints, 12mm Ball Stud (https://www.4x4modsaustralia.com.au/Whiteline-KLC180-115-Sway-Bar-Link-110-135mm-H/Duty-Ball-Joints-12mm-Ball-Stud)
Whiteline W23255 Sway Bar - Link 90-320mm Universal (https://www.4x4modsaustralia.com.au/Whiteline-W23255-Sway-Bar-Link-90-320mm-Universal)

[Vern]

May be look at the Kingpin Design and Fabrication swaybar kit, don't need to disconnect it.