Flat battery due to radio when car is locked?

[Ashes]

Had a flat battery this morning in the D3. A bit strange but what I think is stranger is what I believe the reason is!

While trying to start it, thought I'd check a few systems so turned it off and locked the doors while in the car. To my surprise the CD player came on.

I suspect that when off, the CD/radio is playing and that is causing the failure.

Any ideas what might be causing this or how to stop this happening?

[Ashes]

Just tried jump starting it but that hasn't worked either. Will have to try the battery charger next. Any issues with connecting both +ve and -ve leads of the charger directly to the battery or should you connect the +ve to the battery and the -ve to the chassis like you would for a jump start?

[Ashes]

Couldn't jump start it from the Falcon but managed to jump start it from the 2nd battery by just connecting the +ve to the +ve. Drove it for 30mins to give it a good charge and started no problems. Drove it home and it won't start again. Lots of faults come up but the main one that stays on the info panel is the HDC fault.

Will let it rest for an hour and try again. Seems it won't even try to turn over if it finds a fault.

If I can get it going, it might need a trip to LR to have a look at it.

[Tombie]

Get the battery checked.......;)

[sniegy]

Drove it for 30mins to give it a good charge
Ashes,
Driving it for 30mins will not charge the battery at all, will give it a float charge but nothing more.

Sounds like a dead battery. Get it replaced. All the warnings are because of the battery. Some ECU's are not getting comms through correctly on the canbus system so it will lead all sorts of faults.

Cheers.

[Ashes]

I recon you guys are right. Will jump it in the morning and take in into LR in the morning. Hopefully just a quick battery change if they have some in stock.
Alternator should be OK as that was replaced about 12 months ago.

Sneigy, what time does MLR open in the morning?

[sniegy]

07:30, Bright & Early.:eek:
Parts open at 08:30.

Cheers

[Ashes]

Had the car checked this morning and it appears it is the 2nd battery causing problems.
It was well below charge and was leaking.
I'm getting this replaced with the yellow top optima.

The primary is fine, just needs a charge up.
What I'm not sure of though is why a fault with the 2nd battery would drain the primary. I have a SC80 traxide fitted and thought
this was designed not to allow the primary to drop below cranking charge. LR suggested that the secondary in trying to charge itself was drawing from the primary. I still suspect I had some gremlin which ran the radio
when the car was off and this was what drained the primary. Possibly the fault with the secondary is a bit of a furphy!

[drivesafe]

Hi Ashes, even if your auxiliary ( secondary ) was totally stuffed and pull your fully charged cranking battery down, it would only take the cranking battery down to 12.0v and then the SC80 would have isolated the cranking battery, leaving you with heaps of power to be able to start the D3.

You can start a D3 with as little as 11.5v in the cranking battery.

I suspect your reasoning is correct and it has been the cranking battery that has pulled the auxiliary battery down, and this is because there was something left on in the D3 which runs off the cranking battery.

Having any part of our sound system on, even just the CD/Radio, the system will pull anything from 10 to 20 amps and this will easily flatten a cranking battery overnight, even with the auxiliary battery supplying additional power via the SC80-LR.

[DiscoWeb]

Had the car checked this morning and it appears it is the 2nd battery causing problems.
It was well below charge and was leaking.
I'm getting this replaced with the yellow top optima.

The primary is fine, just needs a charge up.
What I'm not sure of though is why a fault with the 2nd battery would drain the primary. I have a SC80 traxide fitted and thought
this was designed not to allow the primary to drop below cranking charge. LR suggested that the secondary in trying to charge itself was drawing from the primary. I still suspect I had some gremlin which ran the radio
when the car was off and this was what drained the primary. Possibly the fault with the secondary is a bit of a furphy!

Ashes,

Have a read through this thread

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/113121-beware-charging-dual-battery-d4.html

I am sure drivesafe and or others who understand these things intimately will be along soon to advise that the Aux battery will not and can not flatten you cranking battery if installed correctly and LR will try to palm off lots of problems on the the dual battery set up that are not possible.


Regards,

George

P.S looks like drivesafe has already responded !

[drivesafe]

Hi DiscoWeb, while there are some dealerships who need the rear ends kicked but from my own personal experience, MLR are normally not one of those.

Also I have had a PM from Ash and there is more to come on the story and while an expensive result, it should be a good result.

Cheers.

[Ashes]

Got the car back and it turns out both batteries were problematic.

The main battery initially tested ok but a 2nd test found it had a dead cell so got that replaced. Looks like it was the original battery so was over 4 years old and probably due anyway.

The 2nd battery had a leak and had to be replaced. It was 18 months old but not a real expensive one. Got it replaced with a yellow top optima so that should be more reliable. The 2nd battery was well down on charge which I suspect was because it was working hard to try and charge the main battery. I'm sure the SC80 controller was working properly. Without the 2nd battery I'm sure I would have have starting problems earlier.

When MLR first tested the primary they couldn't find a problem with it. They found the 2nd battery to be faulty so I'm guessing they assumed it was drawing from the primary and had discharged it as this was the only fault found. I questioned this at the time as I thought that couldn't happen with the SC80. More investigation by MLR and finding the primary was faulty now makes sense.

Now, why did the initially primary drop charge?

I'm certain it went low due to the CD player coming on when the car was locked and should be sleeping. As I observed that when initially troubleshooting. Cant prove this happened originally though so interested if anyone knows of this happening on other D3's or 4's.
It also may have just died on its own.

Why did the CD player come on when the key was out of the ignition and locked?

Not sure this will be able to be determined. Nothing showed up in the fault code check. Could well be the car electrics detecting a low voltage and playing up so a bit of chicken and the egg maybe:(

anyways, car running again. Not cheap getting 2 batteries done same day but these things happen.

[sniegy]

With Ashes beast there was a hidden find.

On the initial test the main battery was fine, 12.75V @ 595A & recorded a Good Battery & Will require Re-charge. Load tested via LR unit.

I spoke with Ash & explained that the 2nd battery was dead & leaking inside the Brake booster compartment & required replacement very quick indeed.
I said that we would do some more testing & charge the original battery & re-check. We checked all the codes in the vehicle & there were many comms faults which is what i initially thought there would be.

Initially i said that the 2nd battery could be draining the original, & thought that it was.
But i know Drivesafe's system & thought there has to be somethong else.

Bingo..

Dead cell in the Original battery, you could tap the battery, fine, then tap again & get a dead cell..So initial thoughts of a dead battery were correct & we had both batteries trying to run/start the vehicle & trying to keep the vehicle communicating with a varying voltage so to speak.

All fault codes were cleared & the vehicle went on its way.

Expensive, yes, but at least now you know you have a descent set of batteries in the vehicle with a damn good dual battery system that is doing its job properly.

Cheers;)

[Ashes]

The 2nd battery was the cheaper AMP-TECH D48. Didn't realise it was leaking as bad as it was. Thought it just had a bit of build up on the terminal but obvioulsy more than that.

The Yellow top Optima looks like a much more robust unit so maybe anyone with the AMP-TECH should have a good look too see that it is not leaking.

[bee utey]

The 2nd battery was the cheaper AMP-TECH D48. Didn't realise it was leaking as bad as it was. Thought it just had a bit of build up on the terminal but obvioulsy more than that.

The Yellow top Optima looks like a much more robust unit so maybe anyone with the AMP-TECH should have a good look too see that it is not leaking.
According to my battery guru Amp-Tech were recently taken over and quality is right down. He won't stock them any more.:mad:

[drivesafe]

This problem of testing a battery and not getting the correct info, the battery showing it is OK when it is not, is something I have come across a number of times this year.

It seems standard load testing of Calcium/Calcium batteries is not suitable for determining if the battery is on it’s last legs.

Not sure if this is a know problem or just a coincidence.

[sniegy]

Mental note from now on-Kick battery to see if plates move!

A few times!!

:p

[oldsalt]

What's the "expected" life of a battery ? - they are a component we tend to take for granted nowadays....but such a vital piece of equipment in the D3 - should I bin it after 5 years and start with a new one ?????
Interested in your comments/suggestions.
thanks

[drivesafe]

Hi oldsalt, I have never seen a reason for discarding a battery because it has reached a given age.

You can have the most expensive battery available and not get more than a few months out of it for a whole host of reasons and on the other hand, you could buy the cheapest Asian battery on the market and get an extra ordinary life span from it.

You just never know when a battery is going to die so my policy has always been, there is no reason to replace a battery until it needs replacing cause it has died.

[Graeme]

You just never know when a battery is going to die so my policy has always been, there is no reason to replace a battery until it needs replacing cause it has died.
I wouldn't head off on an outback trip with a 4 year old starting battery even though I've had them last a lot longer with normal use.

[Graeme]

Mental note from now on-Kick battery to see if plates move!

A few times!!

:p
Yeah, can't be accused of not properly testing them if you do that!

Batteries with broken internal connections are not normally consdered as having a dead cell.

[drivesafe]

I wouldn't head off on an outback trip with a 4 year old starting battery even though I've had them last a lot longer with normal use.

Hi Graeme, this is a case of choice verses actual need.

As posted, you can have a new battery fail not long after acquiring it, and there have been plenty of cases with the D3s, reported both here and in the UK, where batteries have had a very premature failures.

I can remember a few back where there was a run on Optima batteries failing only a month or so after people bought them and going back a few more years, Odyssey batteries also suffered a similar situation.

Someone going bush BY THEMSELVES, should carry at least two batteries, irrespective of what type or age the batteries are, but in most cases, RVers travel in groups and this in itself is a sufficient safeguard.



BTW, while a cell failure is the obvious demise of a battery, many batteries, as they get near the end of their life span, just simply no longer hold a charge for any period of time and this seems to be where there is a problem testing batteries.

Particularly with Calcium/Calcium batteries, if a battery is going flat over night, but once the vehicle is jump started, the battery has no trouble starting the vehicle all day long, testing does not always show the battery as being faulty.

I have lost count of the number of times in the last 12 months where I have had customers ring me after they have had a flat battery a couple of times, had the local auto elec test it and say it’s fine and that the culprit is the dual battery isolator and that it needs to be fixed.

Not once has the isolator been the problem, every single case, the cranking battery was simply on it’s last legs but this didn’t show up in a load test.

[PhilipA]

If your car is 3-4 years old and an automatic, it is pretty foolish not to spend $200 on a new starting battery if you are going away to remote places.
ANY recovery is going to cost more than $200!!!

I even had my starter motor dismantled and inspected before my GRR trip last year (RRC 160KK) , but then I am a bit anal, but I don't usually break down either. Autos need a good starter motor and battery.
Regards Philip A

[Ashes]

At the risk of hijacking my original post:D

Anyone ever see or more correctly hear, the audio system coming on when the key is remove and the vehicle locked?

[Rockylizard]

Gday...
This is not REALLY relevant I think ... but ... I have noticed that I can sit in the car without the key in the ignition, turn on the radio, listen to news, turn off the radio and get out of the car. The radio/CD must not be through the ignition switch.
When I next put the key in the ignition, the radio turns itself on and I have to turn the radio off again.
Could your problem be aligned to this?
I have not had the radio/CD turn itself on when I lock the car though.:angel:

Cheers
John