Defender getting hot towing

[Graz]

My 1999 130 TD5 is getting hot on hills (Welshpool Road East - Perth) when towing the Kimberly Karavan. Its chipped and on gas.
It blew a enough water out of the system to bring the low coolant alarm on. Not sure where the water went either as I can't see any staining. Hope it didn't make it into the cylinders. The temp on the Nanocom got up to 107 deg.

I have taken the radiator out with the intention of getting it rodded. A couple of the core tubes I can see through the hose adapters are clear which worries me a tad.
Has anyone fitted a tropical (larger) core or know an organization that fabricates or sells them.
Thanks

Graz

[justinc]

Graz, If you are working it hard, and there are NO external leaks, I would have to say it is a classic early Td5 head gasket leak.:(

A good test is to start from cold, drive up a reasonably steep hill, feed it into it a bit, (Not thrashing, just push it a little) and stop at the top. Check the cooling system for pressure, and especially see if there is a little bit of coolant in the end of the overflow tube...
There should be minmal pressure, as the engine shouldn't yet be a operating temp. If the top hose feels hard, and unusually hig in pressure, then it isn't a good sign.


JC

[Graz]

Graz, If you are working it hard, and there are NO external leaks, I would have to say it is a classic early Td5 head gasket leak.:(

A good test is to start from cold, drive up a reasonably steep hill, feed it into it a bit, (Not thrashing, just push it a little) and stop at the top. Check the cooling system for pressure, and especially see if there is a little bit of coolant in the end of the overflow tube...
There should be minmal pressure, as the engine shouldn't yet be a operating temp. If the top hose feels hard, and unusually hig in pressure, then it isn't a good sign.


JC

Hi JC
A while ago I cooked it big time (it was smoking hot). I had the head repaired. They skimmed a few thou off it and they said it passed the hardness test. I refitted it with new Gasket and new head bolts which is why I am surprised that I would have the classic TD5 walking head problem again so soon. It has only done around 20,000 k's since the overhaul. It was a hot afternoon around 34 deg when I was towing the van.
Anyway I'll try what you suggest once I get the rad back in.
How much does a new head cost I wonder, a nasty little surprise expense just before I head for Tassie on L/service!!:mad:
Regards
Graz

[Rosscoe68]

mine (D2 TD5) has been running hot on hills towing since i have had it, regularly gets to 99 and occasionally 100 according to nanocom. non towing goews up perth hills no probs and 92-93, towing, 98-99 up the hills.
i have recently resigned to the fact that my TD5 gets hot towing up hills, and just take it easy.

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

Graz
Do you have an EGT fitted??

Running gas, i would look at the temp its running at. I would alsp be looking at the gas tune.
Gas provides a pre compression flame front for the diesel injection to ignite against. The end result is the ignition temp with gas is higher than with just diesel injection.
Theoretically the gas is supposed to require a lesser amount of diesel ie less throttle to make the same power and improve the combustion efficiency but burn temp is increased and add more fuel, it gets hotter, add a chip it gets hotter still.

I have been in the diesel game for a while now and the diesel gas combination is still fraught with dangers. Caterpillar and Detroit Diesel have dual fuel variants but they never run both at the same time. I have seen far too many dual setups with big holes where piston crowns used to be, cracks in heads big enough to operate a pensioner tour through and remnants of exhaust valves and shattered turbine blades rattling around in mufflers all due to way over the top EGT temps.

Maybe turn off the gas if you can and see if it makes a difference.
And if you dont have an EGT gauge, get one.

Cheers

Andrew

[Graz]

Took the rad in to get rodded. The dude advised that the radiator cores were around 45% blocked. In the process of rodding the tubes they gave way due internal corrosion and the rad started leaking like a sieve.
New rad $540.
When I purchased the 130 the coolant was the green stuff not red OAT, probably why the rad is stuffed.
So the overheating problem may be solved for now though it still worries me where that coolant went to.
I will do as you suggest when I get it back together (renewing the hoses as well. Man that's an expensive exercise!)
Thanks
Graz

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

When I purchased the 130 the coolant was the green stuff not red OAT, probably why the rad is stuffed.

Most likely. The use of ally cores is why OAT is specified.

I have CAT coolant if you want to drop in and pick up a few. Think i can say that now im a Vendor... :angel:

Cheers

Andrew

[Tombie]

Firstly. 106'c isn't hot if the cooling system is sealing correctly.

Falcons get up to over 130'c on a hot day.

Secondly. Gassed and Chipped!!! Got an EGT gauge? I'm betting towing in 34'c it was getting very warm inside that motor.

I'd also ask what dowels were fitted when the head was replaced? Did they fit a genuine gasket?

As to your radiator question. Yes an all alloy more capacity radiator is available.

[Graz]

Firstly. 106'c isn't hot if the cooling system is sealing correctly.

Falcons get up to over 130'c on a hot day.

Secondly. Gassed and Chipped!!! Got an EGT gauge? I'm betting towing in 34'c it was getting very warm inside that motor.

I'd also ask what dowels were fitted when the head was replaced? Did they fit a genuine gasket?

As to your radiator question. Yes an all alloy more capacity radiator is available.

Tombie

Definitely going to fit an EGT. Where abouts are the probes normally fitted? I fitted the probe just pre turbo on my D1 (200TDI). On the D1 1300 deg F is the max, I assume the TD5 would be around the same.
I refitted the head using a laminate steel gasket I purchase from Rovacraft, I assume it was Landrover.
The head had plastic dowels. I am of the view that the dowels are for assembly only, so hold everything in the right place before the head bolts are torqued down, once the head bolts are fully torqued down and clamp the hole thing together the dowels play no further part.
Regards
Graz

[fender22]

Just noticed there you guys suggest OAT coolant. Is that the red or the green stuff?
I just had my radiator replaced and they filled it with Green Glycol. I'd hope they'd know to put the right stuff in? I have a Rover 75 and I know it takes the red fluid

[Graz]

Just noticed there you guys suggest OAT coolant. Is that the red or the green stuff?
I just had my radiator replaced and they filled it with Green Glycol. I'd hope they'd know to put the right stuff in? I have a Rover 75 and I know it takes the red fluid

OAT is red. At least all the brands I have used. The manufacturer will/should state that it is OAT on the container label. Any doubt then dump it and put the correct fluid in.

[justinc]

The plastic dowels DO help locate the head during assembly, but also if the engine gets hot enough, the head WILL walk and even by a fraction of a mm it will break the seal that the head gasket has with the block and head, thereby creating a leak. I wasn't aware you had LPG aswell, the EGT gauge is a MUST have, although LPG is supposed to lower the EGT's under load, it is very important to keep monitoring them as they can still reach epic numbers quite quickly, even on Dieso alone.

45% is a LOT, I would say that is most likely the main cause, and the coolant spewing out means the cap is doing its job and relieving the system of excess pressure due to overheating.

JC

[lardy]

Sorry about your dramas Graz, might have to get my rad replaced soon if I get my job up north.
Should imagine although the old girl holds good temp in Perth up there and some serious mileage under her belt - it can only help.
Hope your issues get cured on the quick mate, regards andy.

[PAT303]

My Tdi is on gas and diesel and I drove it loaded up to Newman last week and switching it between gas/no gas made very little difference to the EGT numbers,20 degree's tops.The 45% blocked rad would be the reason it's running hot,also do the paint brush check on the fan.I'm very supprised that the head was fixed without finding the reason for it failing,the rad wouldn't block up in 20K. Pat

[Graz]

My Tdi is on gas and diesel and I drove it loaded up to Newman last week and switching it between gas/no gas made very little difference to the EGT numbers,20 degree's tops.The 45% blocked rad would be the reason it's running hot,also do the paint brush check on the fan.I'm very supprised that the head was fixed without finding the reason for it failing,the rad wouldn't block up in 20K. Pat

Pat
At the time the head went there were not any previous indications of overheating, always under 90deg on the Nanacom. At the time I was towing the camper up Armadale hill and the temp suddenly went berserk and was over 115 on the nanocom before I could stop. I think the ECU actually shut the engine down. Since refitting the head after repair the temps have always been around 86 to 89 at highway speeds. It was only since pulling the heavier van uphill ( I was pushing it a bit pacing a tojo ) that I realized that I probably had a blocked rad.
I will most likely get a new head eventually as I don't have confidence in a head that has been cooked.
Graz

[PAT303]

Towing up a hill will cook an engine really quick and a 45% blocked rad,worst of all a twin pass rad like fitted to defenders means you really have no cooling at all.Get that sorted and you'll be OK. Pat

[Graz]

New Rad already fitted and temp behavour better but still an issue, just fitted the new viscous fan and the temps on the nanocom entirely different. Maintains a constantly lower temp. Towed the van up the same hill and did not get over 92 deg C on the nanocom. Quickly cooled to 89 on the flat.
A lot more fan noise for a while when cold.
The old viscous fan passed the test of resistance to rotation when static
(felt about the same as the new fan but was not doing the job)
So if your Fender is around 10 years + old and getting warm renew the viscous fan and either rod the rad or renew it.
Cheers

[billnjim]

where in perth did you get this done? was it a specialist radiator joint or just a landy mechanic? my tdi recently got hot - well 3-5mm from the red section on the temperture gauge whilst towing the jayco up to coral bay? its over ten years old & in the 8 years I've had it I've only changed the coolant twice - well had someone else do it & they hadn't passed comment on radiator condition. have been informed by the mechanics I now use that the viscous fan needs replacing.

[Graz]

I pulled the rad out myself and took to a specialist radiator repairer in Midland

[LandyAndy]

Hey Graz
Are you going to hide the Caravan in the shed so Jen dont see it:p:p:p:p:p:p

A couple of points.
Our TD5 Defender runs HEAPS cooler than the D2 TD5.
Im guilty of overdosing the red coolant in the D2,it was filled with the WRONG coolant,green Penrite stuff when I had the clutch and transfercase work done,it DROPPED running temps from 100 down to 88 on Nanocom,the Defender runs in the 80 to 85 deg range on Nanocom(has red coolant).
Ive been told OVERDOSING the coolant ratio raises coolant temps,possibly why mine have dropped with the WRONG coolant.
Get the premixed CAT ELC coolant,the shire buy it for around $70/20lt from CAT,Lovemyrangie at diesel motors says he can supply it cheaper.
I will be running BOTH our TD5s on the CAT ELC coolant(its red,is OAT and has a better protection than the standard OATas posted by a member in another thread)
STILL HAVENT FINISHED THE CAMPER TRAILER:mad::mad::mad::mad:
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

I pulled the rad out myself and took to a specialist radiator repairer in Midland


I wouldnt rod an aluminium radiator,my new (in the shed) D2 radiator was LESS than $300.Graz,I also have a $1200 BIG TD5 intercooler hidden away in the shed;);););););)
Andrew

[Graz]

The same way how the introduction of the other 'red' items like the chainsaw and generator happened.......didn't you notice it, I've had it for years, perhaps you should help me to sharpen the mower blades more often :cool:
Better rattle your dags on the camper trailer, Cape Riche and the King George Whiting fishing and monkey blood comp is on this coming Easter. 2 campers and one Karavan already going.


Hey Graz
Are you going to hide the Caravan in the shed so Jen dont see it:p:p:p:p:p:p

A couple of points.
Our TD5 Defender runs HEAPS cooler than the D2 TD5.
Im guilty of overdosing the red coolant in the D2,it was filled with the WRONG coolant,green Penrite stuff when I had the clutch and transfercase work done,it DROPPED running temps from 100 down to 88 on Nanocom,the Defender runs in the 80 to 85 deg range on Nanocom(has red coolant).
Ive been told OVERDOSING the coolant ratio raises coolant temps,possibly why mine have dropped with the WRONG coolant.
Get the premixed CAT ELC coolant,the shire buy it for around $70/20lt from CAT,Lovemyrangie at diesel motors says he can supply it cheaper.
I will be running BOTH our TD5s on the CAT ELC coolant(its red,is OAT and has a better protection than the standard OATas posted by a member in another thread)
STILL HAVENT FINISHED THE CAMPER TRAILER:mad::mad::mad::mad:
Andrew

[Graz]

Where did you manage to get one for only 300? Best I could find was 540 for the 130.
R U going to the 4X4 show this W/E. Planning to go Sat morning early to fit it in with the weekend itinery. Hoping to pick up a show special Honda 2kva genny as long as I can con Ben to come along to help me carry it out!

Whats the intercooler going on?


I wouldnt rod an aluminium radiator,my new (in the shed) D2 radiator was LESS than $300.Graz,I also have a $1200 BIG TD5 intercooler hidden away in the shed;);););););)
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Where did you manage to get one for only 300? Best I could find was 540 for the 130.
R U going to the 4X4 show this W/E. Planning to go Sat morning early to fit it in with the weekend itinery. Hoping to pick up a show special Honda 2kva genny as long as I can con Ben to come along to help me carry it out!

Whats the intercooler going on?

Hi Graham
Radiator was from KarCraft(D2).
Intercooler is a ASE from South Aussie.Its going in the D2,its already a monster since fitting a flash tuneable ECU with a strong fueling.
If you havent put coolant in the Defender yet see what temp it runs on rainwater.
Not going to the show,been up to Perth twice this week.
Andrew

[justinc]

Andy, Graz is right. For some STUPID reason, Defender rads are way more than D2 ones:mad::mad:


JC

[Graz]

Hi Graham
Radiator was from KarCraft(D2).
Intercooler is a ASE from South Aussie.Its going in the D2,its already a monster since fitting a flash tuneable ECU with a strong fueling.
If you havent put coolant in the Defender yet see what temp it runs on rainwater.
Not going to the show,been up to Perth twice this week.
Andrew

I already used distilled water (at least that's what the label said), and OAT.

[Graz]

Andy, Graz is right. For some STUPID reason, Defender rads are way more than D2 ones:mad::mad:


JC

Maybe its because they are such a mongrel to fit, particularly with aircon.

[justinc]

Maybe its because they are such a mongrel to fit, particularly with aircon.

Actually about on par with the stupid design of the D2 's radiator assembly.

WHY did it have to be so difficult???? The D1 took about 40 minutes to remove and refit a rad, (Not counting refitting hoses and bleeding etc etc) and the D2 you can quadruple that:mad:
Headlamps, horns, grille, undo the bolts on the A/C condenser brackets and the I/C suport from the front, take off the shroud and fan, then remove the oil cooler clip lock fittings, the I/C hoses, the radiator hoses, and finally remove the whole shooting match only to then take the I/C and the oil cooler OFF the radiator, fit it to the new one, and reverse the whole sorry activity.

Bah!!!!!!!!!!!



(I'm just having a hissy fit because we had to do 2 this week already...)


:D:D:D:D:D

JC