The Death wobble vists me. Need HELP Urgently.

[prith]

Guys ,
Need your help!

I recently changed the upper steering joint, lower steering shaft and lower steering joint (ALL OEM) as they were a totally gone. My mechanic also tightened all the bolts/nuts on the front shocks and back shocks as they were loose.

Took the Defender 110 to my farm last Saturday and on Sunday when I wanted to leave saw that my right front tyre had a totally flat. Hence changed it and replaced it with my spare tyre. Came out of the farm on to the main road and suddenly got a massive wobble as if the front tyres were going to pop out any time. Checked the nuts and they were all tight. This was the first time I got this massive wobble. Shook me up a bit. Was doing about 40Km or so.

Later reached the main expressway and had no problem at all.

This Saturday had to go to a city about 400km each way and out of this the first 150 km is a fantastic expressway and was doing about 80-100Km and had no problem or wobble. The remaining road is a state highway and not that good, lot of potholes and uneven road. After I did about 20Km more the horrible front wheel wobble again appeared and this time I was doing about 80km, immediately braked and slowed down and the wobble disappeared. Got down totally shaken and checked all the track rod ends, steering damper and shocks everything seemed ok. Oh! By the way I had replaced the spare with the original punctured tyre, so it was the same tyre which was there from the start. Also had to crawl back at 40-60KM/HR the remaining KMS. Again coming back the last 150KM expressway, I could do 90-110KM/Hour and no wobble, however if there was a bad patch in the road then the wobble appeared and this time at 80km and it shook the Landy very much, just eased it and drove back at 40km.

Carried on and again this kept happening between 40-60km per hour and could not go above these speeds as front wheels would wobble like mad. This happens especially on bad roads or when there is a bad patch in the road. On perfect flat roads it never happened. Something I noticed that when it was wobbling & if I shook the steering wheel from left to right and versa the wobbling stopped, but this was only at slow speeds and not at high speeds. The tyre pressure was ok in both tyres.

Am not sure if my track rod ends are knackered or this is because of the steering damper or the tightening of the front shocks. Also the swivel joints and ball seem ok after 159000 kms. Am not sure if the previous owner has ever changed the shocks and springs! I am the fourth owner. But all the bushes have been changed to BLUE polybush one a year back and I never had this problem at all.

I have brand new grease able track rod ends and new swivel kits (excluding the swivel ball). Can this be a problem because of the swivels? The right one was leaking though. Not sure whether I need to change the track rod ends, swivel balls and kits & steering dampers! Yes my tyres are pretty old and hard, but I have been running the Landy for over three years with them and never had this problem.

Would appreciate if someone more technical than me can help me solve this problem, would be highly appreciated for a quick response. Now I feel scared to drive my 110. Was going to take the entire family for a long holiday with some off-roading involved too. Now am too scared to cause any injury to anyone or my family unless I sort this issue out.

Rgds

Prith

[JDNSW]

Problem is almost certainly lack of preload on the swivels. Adjusting this is fairly easy and may be all that is needed, although checking and replacing as necessary the top swivel pin, bush and bottom bearing plus the seal would ensure a long period free of trouble. Note that a loose swivel will cause the seal to leak, so setting the preload may stop leage if that is the only problem. Tie rod ends could be worn, but this usually shows first as wandering on the road. The wobble will be exacerbated by any free play anywhere in the front suspension or steering however, and these should all be checked.

If you convert the hole on the bracket holding the brake pipe on top of the swivel to a slot, it will mean you can adjust the preload without disconnecting the brakes.


John

[BigJon]

I would say JDNSW is on the money. Very common issue with coil sprung Land Rovers that is often overlooked.

[I Love My Landy!]

I agree with JDNSW and BigJon. I had the exact same problem with my County. Replacing the tie rod ends fixed the really bad 'death' wobble, but there was still a fair bit of wobble present when hitting bumps. I rebuilt my swivel housings and set the proper preloads and the remaining wobble totally disappeared.

Edward :)

[VladTepes]

It's only happened when you changed wheels ?

Seesm liek a wheel balance problem might be worth checking out.

I had a wheel throw a weight and it was much more noticeable than I dreamt it would be !

[I Love My Landy!]

It's only happened when you changed wheels ?

Seesm liek a wheel balance problem might be worth checking out.

I had a wheel throw a weight and it was much more noticeable than I dreamt it would be !

That is very true VladTepes, however he did mention that he put the original wheel back on and the problem persisted. Unless when the tyre was fixed the position of the tyre in relation to the rim had changed and the wheel had not been balanced.

Edward :)

[I Love My Landy!]

Speaking of tyres, I just noticed that you said your tyres are pretty old and hard. If these tyres are worn unevenly or have big patches on the inside they can contribute to the death wobble as well (a little bit of wobble due to the tyres, a bit from worn tie rod ends and a bit from insufficient preload can all add up). You could always swap the rear tyres to the front to see if the wobbling is lessened, however I swapped tyres around a lot when I was getting the death wobbles and although different tyres did lesson the wobble a little bit, it was ultimately the new tie rods ends and swivel housing rebuild that fixed the problem.

Edward :)

[101 Ron]

Agreed , swivel bearing preload must be correct or you will get the death wobbles after hitting a bump.
Most people trade and otherwise are not aware of this.

[prith]

All you guys thanks a million. Am taking back the Landy tomorrow to the workshop and will ask them to check the swivel pre-load.

As I already have the swivel kits minus the balls (which I will order), track rod ends, drop-arm trackrod, will fit all these, plus will also check if the damper is a goner, will replace with a RTC Terrafirma. Will also ask them to check the front shocks too.

[Vern]

not always the swivel preload, the panhard rod bushes will have the same effect. get them checked aswell

[Albert]

I had the same problem as well.
My problem, after I replaced nearly the lot, turned out to be the dampener. It was only 2yrs old! When I took it off there was just a coule of mm of play in it. I stood it up right and stroked it a few times and the play dissapered. I replaced it with a old one I had any way and have had no trouble since.

[Dinty]

G'day All, Just going through all the answers here, if you have had any fluid leaks from power steering, just as Vern said the panhard bushes let go with spectactular results, wheel wobble/shimmy makes driving at anything over 10-15k's road speed impossible, I always carry a set of bushes with me, anyway good luck with it cheers Dennis
ps easy way to check panhard bushes, start engine and have someone move steering wheel back n forth, while you check for movement at both ends of panhard rod, no movement no problem there, look elsewhere, time spent on job approx 40 seconds;)

[prith]

THanks again guys will keep you updated.

[Tikirocker]

I had this VERY thing happen to me this morning coming back from my gunsmiths. I hit this bad patch of uneven road and the entire truck started to shake violently from left to right like it was out of control ... felt like all wheels were about to fly off! Freaked me out for a moment and I was heard to let fly with a WTF!

I slowed right down to about 40k's after I passed the bad patch of road and it went away never to return. I noticed a very minor version of this in exactly the same spot last week and then it went away as soon as I passed that bad patch of road! So is it the road at fault or is there something on the truck that requires adjustment, because it only happens at that exact spot?

P.S I have a County 110 with 2" lift.

Simon.

[BigJon]

You have a vehicle fault. As mentioned: swivels, panhard rod bushes, steering damper or a combination of all three.

[Tikirocker]

Thanks Jon ... let the checking begin. The previous owner told me that he had recently replaced one of the ball swivels/bearing housing .... hmmmm ... I wonder if something got lost in translation during that job?

Simon.

[prith]

Just waiting for my new damper and sumo bars and then will do the full steering job and keep you guys updated.

[Tikirocker]

There had been a little bit of a leak from the power steering recently but it was from the nut and didn't look like anything major. I have since cleaned the area and there are no signs of a leak now. Wondering if this has been a problem for the pan hard bushes?

Simon.

[PAT303]

The people who say the steering damper is at fault are wrong,if the steering system is correct the vehicle will drive perfectly without it.The damper is there to do just that,dampan the shock from rough tracks,not to correct steering faults. Pat

[Tikirocker]

Glad you said that Pat since I was going to replace my steering damper as a first port of call ... might have saved me some money there already.

Simon.

[Dusty1111]

I too have had this problem recently. Changed the steering damper straight up with an RTC tough dog and the wobble was reduced significantly (was undrivable before) but still there. As others of said it is usally a combination of things eg. panhard bushes, swivel preload, tie rod ends, wheel alignment etc. This was the case with mine because as i worked through the list it improved each time until finally found out about swivel preload and did mine (there was hardly any resistance, just flopped side to side) and the wobbles have totally gone. :D

[rovercare]

The people who say the steering damper is at fault are wrong,if the steering system is correct the vehicle will drive perfectly without it.The damper is there to do just that,dampan the shock from rough tracks,not to correct steering faults. Pat

Yup, only masks the problem

[prith]

I too have had this problem recently. Changed the steering damper straight up with an RTC tough dog and the wobble was reduced significantly (was undrivable before) but still there. As others of said it is usally a combination of things eg. panhard bushes, swivel preload, tie rod ends, wheel alignment etc. This was the case with mine because as i worked through the list it improved each time until finally found out about swivel preload and did mine (there was hardly any resistance, just flopped side to side) and the wobbles have totally gone. :D

Could you kindly explain how you did the swivel pre-loads in detail.

[abaddonxi]

Could you kindly explain how you did the swivel pre-loads in detail.

JDNSW did a great post on swivel pre-loads a while back.

I really didn't get how it all worked until I pulled mine apart and rebuilt them.

The swivel bearings are horizontally or -ish. The distance between the bearing and the bearing cup is governed by a pile of metal shims. I went into my supplier and they sold me a pile of different thickness shims. When I pulled mine apart I found that the bearings needed replacing and some of the shims had rusted away.

The rest is a matter of trial and error, or was for me, putting in a pile of shims, testing the resistance with a spring balance, taking away or adding.

As soon as I got what the shims did it all fell into place.