'70 IIA Wagon questions [Archive] - Australian Land Rover Owners

JayBoRover

24th November 2010, 11:49 PM

So I went for a test drive in this today:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/228.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/229.jpg

It's on gas with a very large cylinder, which may be a good thing considering it's had the Holden 186 transplant. The gas conversion was done 3 years ago but the car hasn't had much use in the last two years as it's just been parked in a showroom demonstrating the roof tent. There is an auto top end oiler under the bonnet - I assume it's upper cylinder lubricant to complement the gas conversion and/or the "leaded" status of the engine:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/211.jpg

It's reasonably tidy. There's minor rusting of the rhs front of the chassis rail but doesn't reach the spring hanger. The hole is very small - less than 5c piece size so definitely repairable. The rest of the chassis and outriggers are good and even the rear cross member is reasonable. The interior is very tidy although it has a fair bit of "extra stuff" added like radio, two way, gas level indicator, tacho and an overhead console with speakers, etc. It seems to have been done without compromising the original stuff too much though. It has a small sports steering wheel but has had power steering fitted to make it still drivable.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/230.jpg

It ran okay, although a couple of backfires started just as I was almost back to the start but I did notice the gas indicator was reading very low and it was running on the gas so maybe running out, and changed gears no problems. I didn't get a chance to test low range but it turned okay without complaints from the diffs on tarseal, although the steering lock was dismal. It's been a few years since I drove a leaf front sprung car so probably my memory has faded;).

Probably the only real concern I have is the way it wanders all over the place when driving along. It's a fairly constant weave from side to side, pretty slow and there's no shaking from the steering wheel - just constant drifting from side to side by a couple of feet. Both front swivel hubs are leaking a fair bit but the hubs are shiny without pitting, so maybe they need an overhaul kit and re-greasing. It does have a steering damper fitted, that I think was installed at the same time as the power steering unit.
I discussed it with the current owner and suggested I'd like to jack the front wheels up and check for how things feel. He's okay with that so I'll arrange to go back in some overalls instead of trousers and white business shirt.

The price is pretty scary until you see the list of receipts for everything it's had done. I haven't yet checked all the electrics or done any engine checks, apart from checking the radiator water had no oil floating on top before I started it. I know the 186 engine a bit so not too concerned with that but can anyone comment on the ease of getting parts for these now? It's about 25 years since I had one.

I'd appreciate anyone's ideas of what I should be especially watching out for. Are there any other considerations with buying a Holden conversion?

Cheers

JDNSW

25th November 2010, 01:41 AM

I would check how the power steering has been done - and whether it has engineering approval (same with other modifications). Wandering is likely to be free play in the steering, most likely to be tie rod ends, but could be the power steering setup. Another possibility is spring bushes (front or rear) or broken spring leaves or loose U-bolts. Loose wheel bearings may also cause this.

The oil leaks from the swivels are quite usual, and may mean only that the preload needs adjusting, but new seals should be expected - which means pulling the swivel to bits and checking everything - expect to replace the railko bushes at least, possibly the top in and maybe the bearing. This would also give a chance to check bearings.

John

Lotz-A-Landies

25th November 2010, 06:42 AM

Have to agree with John on this one, wandering is likely tie rod ends or play in the relay or steering box. As JD suggests check the power steering setup - if it is a ram type all the OEM Land Rover steering components are still there and can wear.

If it's a power steering box, then check the lever isn't loose on the spline (same with OEM relay box if still there.)

After that the next thing to do is to check the suspension "U" bolts for tightness and the spring centre bolts are intact.

chazza

25th November 2010, 08:02 AM

If you get him to wiggle the steering wheel with the engine running, whilst you lie on the ground, you can observe the steering rod ends for sloppy movement. Checking the top relay lever and the drop arm from the box (if it still has the original steering box) can be done from inside the engine bay. Putting a finger on a ball joint is a useful way to feel for slop but be careful of spinning parts such as the fan.

Make a list of all the leaks and worn bits you find as you inspect it and show the owner what you have discovered and then you can hum and har about the price if you feel like doing that.

Inspect the engine conversion closely; in particular what type of radiator it has and whether a fan shroud has been fitted and if the engine is likely to overheat. Holden engines are not as much fun to drive off-road as they have less low-rev torque; they go well on-road but are probably thirstier.

There should be an LPG installer's plaque on the car somewhere, so check to see when it was done and by whom. I think gas bottles have to be inspected and re-certified after 10 years. Ask if the cylinder head has had hardened seats fitted (it should be in the receipts if he says yes) if not the engine will burn the seats running on LPG and that will involve expense to put right.

Don't get too alarmed by his by his pile of receipts - check to see what new parts have been fitted and ignore what he paid in labour. Your defence can be that you do all of your own work yourself, so it would make more economical sense for you to buy a rough one and rebuild it with new parts :)

Cheers Charlie

JayBoRover

25th November 2010, 09:11 AM

Thanks everyone. The gas conversion was 3 years ago and is an APA system. The receipts for that are in the file and it cost just over $3k. It all seems to be well installed and there is a data plate for it.

The power steering was professionally installed and there are receipts for that installation. I'll have to check the items you suggested. The engine change has engineers approval and it's registered with the engine change but I'll have to look closer to see if that included the power steering installation.

I've rebuilt the swivel hubs on my GU Nissan ute so I'm okay with that. Not a big issue to do as long as all the bits are available. The Nissan cost about $250 per wheel for the swivel hub overhaul kit. Is that the right ball park for a Land Rover equivalent?

Does the upper cylinder lubricant set-up act as an alternative to having the seats hardened? He quite specifically advertised it as "leaded petrol", so my assumption is the valve seats are not hardened. I know there are some failings of the additive system due to the way a vacuum system works but it's got to be better than nothing. The real question I have is whether I'd still be adding lead replacement with the fuel going in the tank?

I'm not alarmed by all the receipts, in fact it's encouraging to see everything has been done professionally, much of it at a Land Rover place. The receipts included a gearbox rebuild, a new clutch, fitting and wiring of the radio and two-way, fitting of helper air-bags at the rear as well as the previously mentioned major works.

I think I'm on the right track with going back and jacking the front end up to check for play in the steering system. I'll take my camera and get some more snaps. Hopefully I can arrange it for this weekend.

Cheers again for all your advice. Very much appreciated.
John B

Lotz-A-Landies

25th November 2010, 09:29 AM

The upper cylinder lubricant may be a lead replacement in a petrol engine, however LPG is dry and does not provide any lubrication to the valves etc. So the system is providing some lubrication in the system.

Some people use diesel in the same system instead of the flashlube or whatever.

However there is debate on whether it is really necessary. Taxis on LPG can often get a million K on an engine, however taxi engines rarely get cold and a cold engine is when the lubrication is needed most.

If you do need to replace tie rod ends,make sure you get the correct type. SIIa usually have a flat shoulder for about 1/2" before the stop. This shoulder is used for secure clamping of the tie rod. SIII tie rods had the thread all the way to the stop and clamp in the thread. There is not enough clamping pressure on a IIa tie rod when using thread only ends.

Even if the tie rod you remove had a thread all the way, check inside the tube to check if there is a thread inside the end. If there is no thread then you need to get the shouldered tie rod ends.

Some vendors will try to tell you that the threaded ones are for all Series Land Rovers. They are wrong and their use could have fatal consequences if a tie rod end comes away. (Which has happened on numerous occasions.)

101RRS

25th November 2010, 09:40 AM

The vacuum fuel saver system works well and is purely an upper cylinder lubricant. In your system is to cover the lack of lead in both petrol and LPG - I suspect that model holden engine does not have hardened seats etc.

The 750ml bottle in the system is a cost effective way of delivering the lubricant but the dripper does take a bit to set up.

Garry

chazza

25th November 2010, 07:14 PM

I've rebuilt the swivel hubs on my GU Nissan ute so I'm okay with that. Not a big issue to do as long as all the bits are available. The Nissan cost about $250 per wheel for the swivel hub overhaul kit. Is that the right ball park for a Land Rover equivalent?

I think I'm on the right track with going back and jacking the front end up to check for play in the steering system.
John B

You should get out of it much cheaper than $250 per side if all you need is: seals; railko bush and shims and probably even if you need the bottom bearing. If the wheel bearings have been running in oil and have been properly adjusted, they will probably be OK. Check out these websites:
Paddock Spares - Land Rover, Range Rover Parts & Accessories - Discovery, Defender and Freelander (http://www.paddockspares.com/)
L. R. Series - specialists in land rover, land rover series and range rover - gearbox, axle, transmission parts, spares and major units (http://www.lrseries.com/)
John Craddock Ltd - The Largest supplier of Land Rover Parts and Spares in the World (http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/)
Land Rover parts - Home (http://www.roverparts.com.au/)
British Four Wheel Drive - Land Rover & Range Rover Parts Specialist :: DISCOVERY SERIES 1 (http://www.british4wd.com/xcart/home.php?cat=2)
Karcraft Australia (http://www.karcraft.com.au/catalogue/parts.php?action=list&make=25&prod=12&part=ETC+6660&sort=1&start=1&search=Search)
Land Rover Series Parts From Brookwells Land Rover Parts (http://www.brookwell.co.uk/products/series-parts)
P.A. Blanchard & Co. : Ex Military Landrover Specialists, Trailers, Ex MOD Spares, Surplus Stores & Equipment (http://www.pablanchard.co.uk/default.asp)

I bought my shouldered rod-ends from Brookwells, who thanked me for pointing out that some S3's should have them (according to the parts book).

You may have to pay more of course if the bearings are dicey and you don't like the look of the brake components. In general I have been delighted how cheap most brake and axle parts for Land Rovers are. :D

Diana is quite correct about the steering rod-ends; on my S3 there were both types to contend with. Don't check for play whilst the machine is jacked up, the wheels have to be on the ground or the play will be harder to spot.

It looks like a nice car - good luck!

Cheers Charlie

JayBoRover

25th November 2010, 08:05 PM

More fantastic advice. This place rocks!:cool:

I have driven and owned vehicles with CNG many years ago (in NZ - including a 202 Holden), and LPG is kinda similar in the workings and the issues so no worries there.

That's a great list of sites for parts, thanks Charlie. I suspect I'll get to know them a bit over the next few years. (Still looking for a 80" S1 project;))

I was actually looking for an S3 in good condition as a "daily runner" when I stumbled across this S2A. (I still have to confirm the fact it's an S2A - it's advertised as a 1972 but I found paperwork that suggests it's a 1970 S2A). I think this one might have originally been one of the 6 cylinder S2A's and the radiator is the original for the 6. I'll try to find out more details. I have arranged to revisit on Saturday morning with some tools, a hydraulic jack and a multimeter ... and of course my camera for everyones benefit on here:D.
Looking promising at the moment though.

Cheers
John B

JayBoRover

27th November 2010, 02:17 PM

So I headed to the current owner's place for a second, more thorough look at the S2A - this time armed with decent camera instead of mobile phone.

The inside looks very nice.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/GaelJohn/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/PB260017.jpg
The nice paint work done does hide a little rust but I "got poky with it" while the owner was't looking and it's pretty much the odd spot of light surface rust. There is some light rusting at the base of the passenger's side pillar near the bottom door hinge but it really is very minor.

So it's definitely a 1970 Series 2A.
Chassis number is 25330460G on the data plate riveted to the cabin side of the firewall ...
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/GaelJohn/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/PB260001.jpg
and on the chassis passenger's side rear leaf hanger:
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/GaelJohn/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/PB260012.jpg

I checked the radiator as someone suggested but couldn't find any identifying marks on it. It does look a little small and on the longer test drive I took today, in much warmer weather than the other day, the electric fan did come on when stopped at lights and such.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/GaelJohn/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/PB260011.jpg
Also you can see there is no shroud fitted. Something I can probably take care of. The water in the radiator is pure water so some coolant may help. The hoses all felt a little "crumbly" inside so would need replacing I think.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/GaelJohn/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/PB260010.jpg

The handbrake doesn't seem to work at so I had a look underneath at that:
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/GaelJohn/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/PB260014.jpg
There is major oil all over it coming from the back of the final output seal on the box. Where the linkage goes into the handbrake drum there is a seal that is pulled away from the drum housing so the oil just heads on in to party on the linings. I also got the wife to pull the handbrake lever up and down repeatedly and I saw that all the linkages are loose and one mount point bolt is loose.

Another point I was to check was the vague steering. The steering ball joint at both ends of the steering arm are very sloppy.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/GaelJohn/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/PB260007.jpg
as well as the ball joint at the power steering cylinder joint
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/GaelJohn/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/PB260006.jpg
Note that the power steering conversion is simply a bolt on hydraulic ram to the steering arm so all the original LR steering components are retained.

One cross member is pretty seriously "whacked" (like the car's been dropped on a boulder from a great height!) but there's little in the way of rust anywhere on the chassis or firewall.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/GaelJohn/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/PB260015.jpg

So all in all it looked pretty good. I took it for a much longer drive than the other day and I liked it more and more. I switched from LPG to petrol and it ran even better on petrol with no spluttering or popping when planting my foot at very low revs. It didn't jump out of any gears, despite heavy on and off throttle applications. My wife complained about the oily smell, her seatbelt wouldn't work, the seat was too hot and she couldn't understand how people can hold conversations on long drives:rolleyes: ... so I bought it. I'm now the proud owner of a 1970 Series 2A.:banana: I'l pick it up during the week after the banks have sorted out all their issues and things are back to normal there:wasntme:.

Cheers
JayBo

series3

27th November 2010, 02:21 PM

Congratulations!

Lotz-A-Landies

27th November 2010, 02:41 PM

:BigThumb: The few problems look to be only minor issues.

chazza

27th November 2010, 07:47 PM

JayBoRover

27th November 2010, 08:32 PM

Nice one cobber!

I am a bit concerned of the shot of the steering rod-end showing an awful lot of thread; they should be screwed home much farther than that, so get someone qualified to look at it and make sure that the system is safe.

The radiator looks to be missing a few fins, so if it gets a bit hot and bothered it will be time for a new one.

Buy some iridium spark plugs and Gasmaster, or Magnecore high-tension leads, so that it will run at its best on LPG,

Cheers Charlie
Thanks Charlie.
I'm going to test the temperature sensor because it kept down at the lower 1/3 of the dial for the drive, despite the electric cooling fan coming on at times when parked/stopped. The overflow catch bottle seemed to do the right thing. I figured I'd see what was available in the way of a bigger radiator for it, replace all the hoses and thermostat, check the temp sensor and put some proper coolant in the system. If I can find a shroud to suit for the fan I'll fit one of those on too. I'm also thinking I may remove the bull-bar and all the spotlights mounted in front of the radiator, but I'll think about that some more later.

I'll sort myself out a set of all the ball joints needed to overhaul the steering system, replace them and then take it to a specialist to set up and align everything. The steering lock is really, really dismal and I suspect it's partly because of the limitation of the hydraulic ram stroke. I might see about disconnecting it and see how it drives without it and see if the steering lock is better. A previous owner (the one before the guy I just bought it off) was an older guy I think and he needed the power assistance I suspect. I don't mind the old "strongarm" power steering units:D. Never had a problem with old HQ Holdens back in my younger days and I'm far fitter now than I ever was.

Thanks for the tip on the leads. I'll look into that.
Cheers
John B

Rainer

28th November 2010, 02:43 AM

I'm going to test the temperature sensor because it kept down at the lower 1/3 of the dial for the drive, despite the electric cooling fan coming on at times when parked/stopped.Hi,

This is a similar problem I had and I thought the temperature sensor was faulty as my engine was always runnung at about 60 to 65°C but then I decided to take a look into the housing where the thermostat is and found out there was NO ! thermostat in there. So after putting in a Thermostat (summer variant) now my engine is running smoother and warmer at about 75 to 80°C.

regards Rainer (driving the Land Rover in the semidesert of central Mexico)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/160.jpg

dullbird

28th November 2010, 02:47 PM

Congratulations :)

JayBoRover

1st December 2010, 10:30 PM

If you do need to replace tie rod ends,make sure you get the correct type. SIIa usually have a flat shoulder for about 1/2" before the stop. This shoulder is used for secure clamping of the tie rod. SIII tie rods had the thread all the way to the stop and clamp in the thread. There is not enough clamping pressure on a IIa tie rod when using thread only ends.

Even if the tie rod you remove had a thread all the way, check inside the tube to check if there is a thread inside the end. If there is no thread then you need to get the shouldered tie rod ends.

Some vendors will try to tell you that the threaded ones are for all Series Land Rovers. They are wrong and their use could have fatal consequences if a tie rod end comes away. (Which has happened on numerous occasions.)

I am a bit concerned of the shot of the steering rod-end showing an awful lot of thread; they should be screwed home much farther than that, so get someone qualified to look at it and make sure that the system is safe.
Putting the above two comments together leads me to suspect my SIIA is actually fitted with SIII tie rod ends. This would partially explain the extensive amount of thread showing and maybe the vagueness in the steering also.
I pick her up in the morning so will have a really good look at it all this weekend when I get everything cleaned up so I can see it. My plan is to take things apart that need sorting (steering system, cooling system and handbrake system) and sort them out before using the car too extensively. When everything is "put right" then I can take the Nissan off the road for a week or so to sort out a couple of issues on that and prepare it for sale. Brave move having the Landy as my sole transport??:D

JDNSW

2nd December 2010, 08:46 AM

drifter

2nd December 2010, 07:03 PM

The tie rod ends on the drag link may well belong to the power steering addition - but regardless, you need check that there is adequate thread engaged and that the clamping is thread to thread or plain shoulder to plain tube.

The bashed cross member is quite common, and virtually impossible to straighten - either leave as is or make a new one.

From the photos it does look as if it is originally a six - the key is that the engine bulge on the bulkhead protrudes further into the cab. (Calvin on the serial number will confirm this - something you need to know for things like prop shaft replacements and a few other items.

John

If you are wondering what John means by Calvin, go here (http://www.clifton.nl/index.html?calvin.html) and enter your serial number. (There used to be a stick on this section of the forum with the Calvin address and a few other helpful places but it disappeared a while back)

I can't quite make out the last character in your picture above - I can read the 25330460 but not the suffix - maybe a 'G'? In any case, Calvin, in this instance, seems to be generic in engine description:

253
Model: Land Rover, Series IIA
Body type: Basic
Wheel base: 109in
Engine: petrol
Model years: 1962-1971
Destination:Completely knocked down (CKD), right-hand drive (RHD)30460
Serial numberG
Design: Six significant design modifications
Suffix used from April 1969 till October 1971

JayBoRover

2nd December 2010, 07:04 PM

Calvin on the serial number will confirm this - something you need to know for things like prop shaft replacements and a few other items.

John
Huh??? Calvin on the serial number? Is that someone I should get in touch with on this Forum or a computer system name or something?

I hadn't thught of the possibility that the tierod ends came with the power steering instal. Good point worth me checking out.

Cheers
John B

drifter

2nd December 2010, 07:06 PM

Huh??? Calvin on the serial number? Is that someone I should get in touch with on this Forum or a computer system name or something?

I hadn't thught of the possibility that the tierod ends came with the power steering instal. Good point worth me checking out.

Cheers
John B

We posted at about the same time. Read up a post ;)

JayBoRover

2nd December 2010, 07:09 PM

Thanks for that drifter:). As you can see, while you were busily typing me an answer, I was busily typing in the question:D. The suffix is "G", as you suspected - also recorded on the data plate mounted to the cab side of the firewall.
Cheers
John B

JayBoRover

2nd December 2010, 10:11 PM

Went and picked up the S2A this morning. The breakfast news had said that train services were disrupted due to the bushfire south of my place so I figured I'd drive all the way in to work. Then I discovered the LPG was flashing into the red LED and one fuel gauge shows empty and the other shows 1/4 tank. Also I know the handbrake doesn't work so decided I'd better head home and use the Nissan today - is that how Land Rover ownership normally starts?:p

So I was a little excited when I finally got home and headed out to see the new toy.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/GaelJohn/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/PC020003.jpg
Looks much better without the roof tent on.

I took the cover off the spare tyre on the bonnet to discover that it's a 7.50 x 16" whereas the tyres on the car are 31/10.5 x 15".
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/GaelJohn/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/PC020004.jpg

I then pulled the seat bases out and hinged the back forward to discover a nice little surprise.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/GaelJohn/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/PC020005.jpg
That'll be to go with the Kenwood stereo mounted in the overhead console. A Series LR with a CD player!!:cool:
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/GaelJohn/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/PC020006.jpg

I checked all the electrics (after the stereo stopped working when I changed the channel!) and found all but one of the 9 lights at the front actually worked! All the rear lights worked, including the high mounted work light that switches from the dash. All the mod cons!!;)
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/GaelJohn/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/PC020007.jpg

I took it for a short drive in the paddock. Engaged 4x4 in high range and then switched it into low range. Dumped the clutch and all four wheels spin, so that's a good start. (My paddocks are all soft sand). Pretty much everything seems to work with only a few minor things that don't.

isuzutoo-eh

2nd December 2010, 10:31 PM

Can almost see the smile on your face from the East Coast!
Great Series you have there, look after her and she will reward you for many years to come. :)

JayBoRover

4th December 2010, 10:18 PM

So I got to spend a bit of time with the new Landy today. (I'm going to have to come up with a name I think). Anyway, I wanted to take the wheels off but found there's no wheel brace and I don't have a 1 1/16" socket. I did go and have a look at another S2A the same year (1970) that's for sale for $500 but it was locked up in a yard and we couldn't raise the yard owner to come and open up. I'll go and have a look during the week. I'm hoping (long shot) that it has a wheel brace tucked away in it somewhere. I'm looking at it with the idea of it being a spares source for original 16" wheels to replace my 15" sunraysers and maybe the tie-rod and other steering link ball joints are better than the ones I have and maybe the handbrake too. The one for sale has a rusted out firewall and probably chassis so a parts source, although it is a genuine 2.25 LR 4cyl engine. The guy selling it would be happier if it was to be restored but happy enough that it doesn't go to a scrap yard.

I got the stereo working again but also discovered during a drive that even with the 200W amp and the volume up you still couldn't really hear it over all the other racket. When stopped at the lights I'd have to keep turning it down to avoid deafening the people in the cars in the lane next to me ... or even behind me!:D. Eventually I turned it off and enjoyed the drive. What a great way to travel. Really enjoyed it:cool:. Be even better when it stops wondering all over the place after I sort out all the wobbling balljoints in the steering system.

Now, onto my questions for the day. Driving in a 90kph zone the car well behind me was maintaining the distance rather than catching me. This was a long, straight and wide road with good visibility and little traffic. My speedo was showing around 45mph and the tacho about 2,800rpm with the 186 Holden motor buzzing along nicely. I thought maybe the speedo is a little pessimistic? So when I got home I opened up the folder of receipts that came with the car and found a receipt for purchase and installation of a pair of 3.54 diff's. Can anyone tell me a little more of what this means? Does it explain my suspicions of incorrect speedo if the speedo drive comes from the gearbox output? Next drive I'll take a GPS with me and see if I can get a correlation for the speed from that.

Cheers
John B
Ps: Did I mention I really enjoyed my drive in it??;)

Dinty

5th December 2010, 11:55 AM

G'day All, The std diff ratio is 4.7 for a Series2A, it could have diffs out of a S3 stage 1 they ran 3.54 I'm sure, but certain if I'm incorrect somebody will correct my 'mistake, I wouldn't be dumping the clutch too many times in low range something will give bigtime:( cheers Dennis

chazza

5th December 2010, 12:24 PM

JayBoRover

5th December 2010, 09:31 PM

Good to hear that you are enjoying it John!

Paddock have wheel braces at ridiculously cheap prices - I bought one and I have been very happy with it. :D

Using the GPS to check the speed is a good idea. You can check if the 3.54 diffs have been fitted by:
1. Jack up one wheel and support the axle on a stand.
2. Make a chalk mark on the propellor shaft next to a prominent feature on the axle, or mark the axle housing as well.
3. Make a mark on the tyre at any convenient position - 6 o'clock next to a tool on the ground would be easy.
4. Rotate the wheel in any direction one complete revolution, whilst someone else observes the propellor shaft and counts off the number of times the chalk mark passes the datum mark. If the answer is 3 and one-half then you have the 3.54 diffs :D

This ratio will give the Holden engine an easier life by reducing the revs in top gear,

Cheers Charlie
Hmmm. That didn't work out quite as expected but I think I have the answer. Firstly, thank-you for your response Charlie. I did as you said but the prop shaft rotation was less than two. So I changed tack slightly and turned the wheel 10 times and counted the prop shaft rotation at 17.75 times. (Too much time on my hands??). That works out to 1.775 prop shaft rotations to 1 wheel rotation. Hmmm. Multiply it by two and it looks nice at 3.55. Could this be right based on a diff action splits the drive between two wheels but I only had one wheel lifted? I can't get my head around it but the numbers look good then.

I removed the radiator top and bottom hoses and the bypass hose, as well as the thermostat, today. I discovered that the "crunchy" feeling I felt when squeezing the top hose was in fact just an internal shaping spring to prevent the hose from being collapsed. The hoses were all in pretty good condition but I decided to press ahead with replacing them and keeping these as emergency spares. Interestingly the bypass hose seems to be a 202 Holden one, so I wonder if they've put a 202 water pump on the 186 to improve flow? Anyone come across this before? So the replacement hoses are ordered - 186 rad hoses and 202 bypass hose.

Noticed the thermostat is a 71DegC one. This might explain why the temperature gauge reads so low? So I have replaced that with an 82DegC one which seems to me more like what I'd expect on a 0.5Bar system. I'll see how that goes but I also wonder if the electric fan kicks in early so might check the thermoswitch on that. I think it's mounted in the top tank of the radiator which might explain it switching on when stopped on hot days.

I pulled the indicator switch apart as it was loose. In the process figured out how the rubber wheel does the auto cancelling function that wasn't working. I was amazed at the engineering that's gone into the design for this switch. I'll take it apart again one day and take some photo's of the mechanical detail of it. Brilliant:cool:. The switch now doesn't wobble and the rubber wheel has the pressure it needs to return the stalk to centre when the steering wheel turns.

I took the spare wheel off the bonnet. Does anyone have a photo of how the wheel is supposed to be bolted to the bonnet? I suspect the block of wood with a hole drilled through isn't correct:p.

That's it for now. I'll try and fit the new hoses and refill the system with Tectol coolant during the week. In the mean time I have several items in my "watchlist" on eBay so will do some shopping tonight:). The mission next weekend will be to look into the dud handbrake issue. I also have been given a lead to a series 1, so might chase that down:).

Forgot to mention something: I discovered the clamps at both ends of the tie-rod were completely loose:eek:. If you look closely at the photo I posted earlier in this thread you can actually see that the clamp is undone.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/12/1524.jpg
So not only is there insufficient clamping force on a SIIA clamping to the threads of a SIII tie-rod end but my clamps weren't clamping at all! I'll take the tie-rod off and see how much of the rod is actually threaded over the tie-rod end.
Cheers
John B

JayBoRover

7th December 2010, 12:09 AM

Another day, another question...
The top and bottom radiator hoses arrived today so my wife picked them up for me. They're not right:(. The picture on the shop counter PC looked the same as the old hoses I held up to compare but the new hoses are slightly different - different enough.

So does anyone have an idea of what radiator hoses are likely to have been used with a 186 Holden motor if not 186 Holden parts?
- The bottom hose is too "tall" - that is the straight length between the bottom turn and the top turn is too long.
- The bottom turn is also not quite "sharp" enough. The top hose is slightly long, which could be trimmed, but the turn is not quite tight enough and so the hose "collapses" a little when forced to bend a little tighter.
- The bypass hose is a 202 Holden part and works fine so I am suspicious that I maybe need 202 Holden rad hoses. Anyone know if they're similar shape but slightly different dimensions?

I'd spend some time at the shop again but I'm going to be away on sites for the next couple of days.

Cheers
John B

JDNSW

7th December 2010, 05:49 AM

I strongly recommend getting a factory parts and workshop manuals. See the Rave CDs in "shop" on the header here. These will answer a lot of your questions.

John

B.S.F.

8th December 2010, 03:08 PM

chazza

9th December 2010, 08:15 AM

As John said, get yourself a parts book. How else would you know that you've got the correct track rod? There are four different ones you can put on,however only one of them is the correct one.
Series 1
Series 2/2a pendant type ball joint
Series 2a non pendant type ball joint
all with recessed thread but the rods are different length, and
Series 2a/3 ?? with the thread to the end.(I don't have one of those in front of me, so I can't comment on the length.
W.

I agree that parts books can be very useful, however, in the context of your reply my Land Rover S1 and S3 genuine parts books are no use whatsoever.

They show the parts and the numbers but no mention is made of length or the thread configuration. The S2 book helpfully mentions length and the type of ball joints, but it doesn't explain what a "pendant type" ball joint is, or what it looks like. The track rod on my S3 has probably been replaced as it has threads all the way to the end but I have no way of telling how long it should be :(

Can you tell me what a pendant ball joint is please?

Cheers Charlie

B.S.F.

9th December 2010, 10:24 AM

Pendant type ball joint is when the ball joint is inserted from below.The steering lever is mounted on top of the swivel pin housing.
Non pendant from the top,lever at the bottom.
W.

Lotz-A-Landies

9th December 2010, 11:14 AM

Pendant type: the series 1, series 2 and early series 2a had the steering levers bolted to the top of the swivel housing. i.e. the levers hanging down from the top like a pendulum.

Non-Pendant type: The vast majority of series 2a and all series 3 had the steering levers bolted to the bottom of the swivel housing.

JayBoRover

13th December 2010, 01:41 PM

I got my radiator hoses sorted and fitted a new 82DegC thermostat. Filled the system with coolant, rather than plain water that was in there before, and used the S2A a couple of times to go to the Park and Ride for work last week. Yesterday was a 36DecC day so I visited my brother in the hills. Plugging up Greenmount hill on a hot afternoon was the ultimate test for the system and all went well. The temp gauge made it to about 2/3 on the dial at its peak and came down nicely to around 1/2 easily and then normal running around 1/3. I'm very happy:D.

I have ordered ball joints for the steering and a handbrake kit so hopefully get those fitted during the Xmas break and be set to roll in the new year. Then I can start playing with the new 80" S1 I just bought:cool:.

btm

13th December 2010, 07:32 PM

that's gold

JayBoRover

16th December 2010, 01:09 AM

I guess being used as a "roof tent display case" in a shop for two years hasn't done the battery any good. First time I had to drive at night due to a late meeting I had to attend didn't work out quite like it should have.

I had to stop at the dreaded Macca's on the way home, as my wife informed me I long missed dinner, and the Landy wouldn't start after I came out of the sty ... barely turned over:(. I had jumper leads of course so just had to wait until I spotted a car that I knew had a battery on the rhs of the engine bay ... or better yet it was a Land Cruiser with a battery on each side:angel:.

While I was waiting with the bonnet up I was asked by a passerby if they could take a photo of the S2A. They were laughing and laughing at seeing such a vehicle:D. They were foreigners:confused:.

So next job is to check the alternator (one of the receipts in the file that came with the car was for a high output alternator being fitted) and probably a new battery after a load check.

...and so it starts???

JayBoRover

31st December 2010, 12:04 AM

I have a couple of new questions coming but I'll have to get some photo's to support them.
I have replaced the dodgy ball joint on the left hand end of the drag link arm and improved the driving experience by half. The other half will be more troublesome. I have discovered that the arrangement to convert to hydraulic ram power steering changes the drag link substantially. It no longer has a simple ball joint where it attaches to the steering relay lower arm. It is a weird device that slides side to side to act on a hydraulic device at the drag link's right hand end. This joint is completely stuffed. I'll get decent photo's tomorrow now that I've de-greased everything and I can see it better, but here's the "pre-cleaning" photo:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/12/58.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/12/59.jpg

I did get onto something else though. I really didn't much like the arrangement with the bullbar and the three spotlights mounted on it. The Landy already has four round headlights, the two Hi/Lo lamps on the front guards and two Hi only lamps mounted in the front panel. It then also had two rectangular spotlights mounted on a small cross bar of the bullbar with a 4" round spotlight between them in the centre. A confusion of lights and styles.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/12/60.jpg

So I recently bought a sand-blaster from my local Malz store and was keen to try it out. The bullbar was painted silver and I wanted to change that to black. Sand blasting off the silver revealed the bar is galvanised, so that was a nice surprise. I happened to have some left-over "chassis black" from dressing up the Patrol so that went on the standard bumper as well as the bullbar. (It took a bit of thought as to whether to paint the standard galvanised bumper bar but I figured that it has already been modified by a previous owner with holes drilled in various places and it was a Britparts one so not the original one. It also kind of loses it's relevance with a car that's so modified as this one ... I wouldn't paint the S1 bumper!). Finally, to "round it out" nicely (pardon the pun) I fitted a pair of 140mm round Narva spot/driving lights left over from a previous GQ Nissan a few years ago. To get these in I did have to remove a small diameter cross member of the bullbar. (I did that before the sandblasting and painting obviously).
Looks okay I reckon:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/536.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/996.jpg

I hope to mount my UHF tomorrow and sort some tyres out soon to replace the very marginal ones on there at the moment.

Cheers for now
John B

NiteMare

31st December 2010, 03:37 PM

JayBoRover

31st December 2010, 08:59 PM

going by your maths in relation to your diffs, i'd say you're correct in deducing that you have 3.54:1 ratio diffs fitted, which will give you an error at your speedo head as it is driven from the back end of the gearbox...

a possible correction that is used in G.B. is to find a speedo from an old Triumph car (probably the Triumph 2000/2500) with approximately 1100-1140tpm (Turns Per Minute), your standard speedo i think will have about 1400tpm

it might be worth you asking for verification on the speedo tpm on the Series 2 Club forum

hope that helps

p.s.
a good looking truck :thumbsup:
That's worth a thought. In the mean time, now that I've run wit a GPS a few times I've discovered the conversion is simple it's not funny. I just double the number showing on the speedo in mph and that's my actual speed in kph, within a couple of kph anyway. So an indicated 45mph is actually 90kph. Too easy huh!:) It's reasonably consistent between 20mph/40kph and 50mph/100kph (by which time it's fair screaming and I don't spend any time at that speed!:eek:).
Cheers
John B

Lostkiwi

31st December 2010, 10:04 PM

Looking good Jaybo :D
The black on the bullbar and the new spotties look awesome!! :BigThumb::BigThumb::BigThumb:

keep the pic,s coming please:D

JayBoRover

4th January 2011, 12:59 AM

Well, I've been a busy beaver the last few days and mounted my Blue Tongue air compressor and air tank, with an Nitto air connection socket out the rear of the rear bumper/cross-member, as well as swapped out the old 2-way for my UHF.:cool: I'll take some photo's of the installed gear tomorrow, although it looks a little rough because I haven't yet sand blasted and painted the air tank. The switch on the dash hasn't got a fancy engraved label like all the other switches on the dash of this truck, so that's something I'd like to sort out properly one day too. Photo's to come will explain all:angel:.

I'm waiting until I have a bunch of things to do at the same time, as just doing the tank is a small job for all the effort of sand-blasting and painting. Currently the list includes blasting and painting the side-steps (the steel frames - not the aluminium checker-plate itself, although I might yet do them but using the grey paint I painted my steel checker-plate tray on the Nissan ute with). I might also do a quick flick of the rear cross member just to dress the rear up to match the bull-bar at the front. I will also blast and paint the side mirror stalks, as they detract a little from the overall picture. I'm thinking I'd also like to remove the fuel tank guards and clean them up and paint them too, but I'm not sure how big a job that's going to be yet.

At the moment I'm happy enough to leave the S2A and finish up dressing the Nissan ute and Traymate camper ready for sale. I'm confident in the Landy now and there isn't really anything looming that would see it off the road for anything major. I'd still like to sort the steering out better but I'm hoping that a look at a potential parts donor S2A this week might resolve that with standard Drag Link, wheels and steering wheel. Then I can ditch the hydraulic ram power steering which will create some space currently utilised by the hydraulic fluid reservoir for mounting a dual battery under the bonnet. We'll see what happens;).

Cheers
John B

JayBoRover

4th January 2011, 11:19 PM

Photo's as promised ...
So the new switch on the dash looks a little lonely:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/1377.jpg

These are the nicely engraved switch labels on all the other dash switches:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/1378.jpg
Also, all the other switches have little LEDs at the end of the toggle so maybe I'll have to track one of those down to keep everything even. Interesting though, I think the LED would only light when current is flowing and that will only happen when the pressure switch on the air tank has switched to call for more air to complete the circuit to earth through the relay. This means the switch would be "on" but the LED not lit unless the compressor runs. A little pointless really when you can hear the compressor run.

So the compressor is mounted in the passenger side rear locker under the bench "seat". The relay is mounted just forward of the compressor. I used a good 4mm wire direct from a blade fuse at the battery for the supply, run along the top and sides of the drivers side chassis rail under the body. The switch wire is smaller and run internally along the passengers side roof edge. Plenty of room in the locker for air line, gauge and fittings. There is some carpet to go back in there but I ned to make some holes in the right places for the various bolts to go through.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/1379.jpg

The tank is basically directly below the compressor behind the wheel arch. It hangs on a pair of large 'U' Bolts with air connection elbows at each end.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/1380.jpg

The inboard elbow fitting goes to the compressor through a 'bulkhead' fitting (so there's no risk of chafing and damaged air line is easy to replace without having to deal with getting a hex nut through a grommet) while the outboard one goes to the Nitto socket mounted in the rear bumper.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/1381.jpg

The pressure switch on the tank is rearward facing on the side of the tank. This protects it from stones flicking up from the rear wheel and also provides a nice route straight into the locker via existing grommeted holes that are used by the indicator/tail/ brake light wires. One wire comes from the dash switch and the other heads to the relay mounted with the compressor.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/1382.jpg

The carpet will go in when I remove the air tank for sand-blasting and painting. The air compressor should be a little quieter when reinstalled onto the marine carpet.

That's it for now. Tomorrow I have to plug a tyre I found is losing air. While doing some painting on my Nissan ute I had 10 minutes to spare while another coat flashed off. I figured I could check the Landy tyres in that time. 38psi/38psi/39psi/20psi. So while topping it up I glanced around the tread that was visible and found a shiny patch - the end of a steel nail or something. Ah well. It's due to be changed soon anyway so a quick plug repair will do. Lucky for tubeless tyres.

Cheers
John B

JayBoRover

6th January 2011, 01:21 AM

I went to have a look at a potential parts donor S2A this morning. It was a complete wreck!:eek: The only things that might be salvageable for me are:
1) the steering wheel (reasonable condition four spoke with only one crack in the outer rim that I could see, although I couldn't open the driver door for a better look so going off what I could see from the passengers side)
2) the drag link arm for the steering
3) possibly the four wheels (Tyres are shot and the wheels are rusty but should be okay with a clean-up).

Question time: The wheel have smaller wheel nuts than are found on my S2A. My truck requires the 27mm (1 1/16") wheel brace but the donor uses smaller ones (22mm?). The question I have is will the studs be the same diameter? Ie are the donor wheels likely to fit on my S2A? They are both supposedly 1970 S2A's.

Either way the donor is not really worth the $500 ask. The engine is a 4 cylinder but I couldn't tell what state it's in other than the oil on the dipstick was pretty clean. Everything seems to be there under the bonnet. Everything else about the car is completely shot. Even little things like the knobs for the air vent handles have been replaced with rusty bolts tack welded on. The total list of salvageable parts other than the above on my shopping list are:
- passengers door handle
- windscreen
- instruments and dash
- potentially the engine (radiator is completely stuffed)

That's it really. Drivers door is tied on with rope, both doors are completely rusted, chassis is completely rusted, all panels are dented and have holes drilled in several places, etc.

RobHay

6th January 2011, 02:37 AM

Not worth $500....walk away from it or make an offer you consider reasonable......but if everything else on it is stuffed.

You can use the SIII tie rod ends (the threaded ones) on a IIA you will just need to replace the tie rods for SIII ones. The threaded tie rod ends would appear to be much more readily available then the proper shouldered ones.

Keep up the good work and enjoy your Landy.

JDNSW

6th January 2011, 06:18 AM

JayBoRover

10th January 2011, 01:01 AM

My Landy was parked at the end of the driveway and my wife drove up in her car and asked me why my Landy was "on a lean". I looked from her perspective, with an open mind, and lo and behold she's right!

So today I investigated and found that there was no air in the drivers side Polyair helper bag while the passenger side had 50psi in it:eek:. So I put some air in the drivers side bag and heard a hissing sound. Off came the rhs rear wheel and a bottle of soapy water and this is the result:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/1059.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/1060.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/1061.jpg

It looks like a stone might have been caught between the bag and the "coil cage" and rubbed through the bag. The cut was directly underneath one of the coils and had the look of being "dug in" from above. (Note that I turned the bag inside the coil cage to get access for the photo - the hole was on the inside right where you could expect a stone to go).

So the question for today is: does anyone know if the Polyair bags are repairable or will I have to consider a replacement?

Tomorrow night I will detail my findings on wheel offsets and dimensions of the 15" Sunraysia rims and the 16" LR rim. Complete with quite a few photo's showing how I measured the offsets. I will, of course, include another question because that's what you when your thread is titled '70 IIA wagon questions".:angel:

JayBoRover

10th January 2011, 11:16 PM

I wrote up my findings on the wheel offsets and you can find it in the "rim size" thread:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-2-2a/118047-rim-size.html

JayBoRover

30th January 2011, 10:21 PM

I should probably change the title of this thread as it's become more than just questions. This time I'm answering someone's query about the side-steps that was asked in "General Chat" in the thread on "Land Rovers for Construction".

So this is the side-step that was asked about (Most of the photo's relate to the passenger's side):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/59.jpg

I was asked whether the side-steps are folding and whether I could take some close-up photo's of the mounting details and construction. So here we go.

The view from underneath showing the square section frame that the actual step plate screws onto.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/60.jpg

The rear of the step frame ends with a tab that is bolted to the sill. I am not too familiar with Land Rover framing so can't be specific at this stage as to what exactly it's bolted to. It seems to be a "U" section with the door seal rubber on the right and the fuel tank on the left in the photo.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/61.jpg

The disadvantage of making the frame out of square section is this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/62.jpg
The hollow collects rain water. I'm going to sand blast, etch prime and then chassis paint the side-step frame to give it a best chance without drilling holes in it for draining. (There are holes underneath the framing for draining it of internal water).

At the front, the step frame is welded to the end of the outrigger. Looking at it I believe it could be possible to sort out a bolt-on step using a similar principle to the rear attachment. I'd like to think that when I do the preparation for painting that I will grind back some of the messy welding and clean it up with some better welds. The reality is I'd better leave it "as is" as my welding will probably look far worse. (Maybe a visit to someone that can weld is in order one day).
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/63.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/64.jpg

This is the drivers side front welding detail:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/65.jpg

Cheers
John B

NiteMare

30th January 2011, 10:40 PM

UncleHo

30th January 2011, 11:26 PM

G'day JayBoRover :)

I have been reading this thread and found it very interesting, quite surprised that somebody has not noticed that the chassis No is for a 4 cylinder vehicle 253****** RHD Export CKD109 hardtop, as the 6 cyl chassis was 347***** for the 109 hardtop, the gear lever also looks like a 4 cylinder type,whoever did the Holden conversion has done a very through job and has engineered to well, the deluxe trim on the firewall indicates that the firewall has also been relieved back to accomodate the motor with out the step as in the factory 6's,the power steering set-up looks similar to that used on the XR/XT Falcons/Mustangs on the mid 60's ram type,very twitchy on the cars,the tie rod and it's ends could also be from Ford,the "G" suffix on the chassis number is to indicate the headlights in the guard models, and these vehicles also had the option of the Salisbury Diff but would have been in 4.7:1 ratio, the 3.54 ratio would be either from the Range Rover classic or the 110 vehicles 10 spline. the rear springs on it are station wagon springs 8 leaves with 2 overload leaves,(gave a better ride in the wagon)also a factory option.

Hope this is of some help to you

cheers

JayBoRover

31st January 2011, 12:36 AM

looking at that step my guess is that some previous owner made it out of some old piece of office furniture, i very much doubt any reputable company would make/sell something that you'd weld to the outrigger and the sill like that one appears to be....

when that outrigger rots away you'll have a pig of a job seperating the three bits from what i can see in those photos, even changing the bulkhead foot could become a major difficulty

i might be wrong tho i dunno

You may very well be correct on the furniture history:D. It would have been large furniture though as the square section is pretty big and the steel isn't the thin stuff most furniture is framed from. It does seem extreme for a company to make something that welds to the outrigger so I suspect it is "home made". Certainly the welding is "home made" ... or maybe "chicken made".:D

I'm sure that when the outrigger rots away, the side-step will be the least of my problems:(. Simply unbolt it from the rear and it'll easily cut away with the outrigger.;)

Hope this is of some help to you
Thanks for all your information ... and interest. Hopefully this week I'll be picking up another 1970 S2A as a donor that has original 2.25 LR 4 cylinder engine. Maybe one day I'll revert the rig back to a standard LR one with the donor parts. (Probably only if the 186 Holden motor carks it as it goes pretty well with it in there). More importantly for now the donor has standard Land Rover 16" wheels and a standard Drag Link arm ... and a four spoke steering wheel. I'm going to remove the power steering as I really don't like the set-up of it and it uses a modified Drag arm that I'm suspicious of. I think it will be a better truck for reverting closer to standard.

Cheers
John B

UncleHo

31st January 2011, 09:46 AM

G'day JayBoRover :)

If it is a late 2a, with the 3 spoke rubber dished wheel it will be a direct changeover, the larger 16 inch steering wheel is standard and with 7.50 x 16 tyres you will find that the steering effort is quite low,if the rest of the front end and steering system is up to scratch and swivel pins preload (12-14lbs 2 steering lever eye, fill swivel hubs with 80/90 oil NOT grease) and wheel alignment is OK, (toe-in 1.2 to 2.4mm) {with conventional X ply tyres} OR .000mm (zero toe-in with Radials @35psi) then driving on good highways should be achieved one handed :)

NOTE: standard wheel rims for 2a LWB 5.5inch rims,should be stamped with the P/n 272309 in between the stud holes ;)

All Landrovers have 3 spoke s/wheels as standard ib both the flat sprung type (early) and the dished rubber type 1967-onwards

cheers

JayBoRover

4th February 2011, 06:24 PM

So I headed out early this morning to pick up my new donor S2a. It's a 1970 S2A, so same year and model as my truck, and was only a few km's from my place.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1253.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1254.jpg

I'll post some more pictures of some of the details later. I'll also tell the story of how I came to rush the purchase following an interesting time with my daily driver S2a (must come up with a name for it one of these days) the other night.

Cheers for now.
John B

UncleHo

4th February 2011, 08:13 PM

G'day JayBoRover :)

Why not call your daily driver "JayBo":D

Nice straight looking 2a parts jobbie,going by the horizontal fittment of the park/flashers it is a UK build vehicle,and not a aust CKD unit, may even have a Land-Rover Sulihull oval on the grille, it's got a genuine series 2/2a/3 exterior sunvisor ;) just a little "Tin Worm" in the firewall :(
but looks like a good buy,wheels look like standard 2a in Limestone,I would be interested in the part numbers stamped on them if it is an import as the R272309 number I quoted you was for the Aust ROK branded wheels, and it is a very long time since I looked at the wheels of a new ex-UK imported 2a

cheers

JDNSW

4th February 2011, 08:52 PM

So I headed out early this morning to pick up my new donor S2a. It's a 1970 S2A, so same year and model as my truck, ...
Cheers for now.
John B

1970? With headlights on the radiator support, and wipers mounted on the windscreen not the bulkhead? Might be a 1970 model, but if it is, a few bits are from other models!

John

JayBoRover

5th February 2011, 02:20 AM

A quick note and a few snaps of the new donor car. The chassis data plate was handed to me by the previous owner as it had been removed from the bulkhead. No. 25308881B. Checking the chassis number on the chassis itself will have to wait a wee while and I suspect will take some effort due to the rust, dirt and oil everywhere.

There is also a small data plate (photo's to come) with a logo "Produced by Pressed Metal Corp. Ltd. Sydney" and "Body No. LRL 1017 4" and "Ser No. 10910174". I have not seen the second label before so any ideas anyone?

On to the photo's snapped tonight. The bit I liked most is the steering wheel:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1214.jpg
It is in exceptional condition and should clean up a treat. I wish I could find one as nice for my 80" S1. (I harbour a secret hope that this one will go on the S1 seeing as I don't think it's supposed to go on an S2a).

To address UncleHo's query on the wheel part numbers, there are two wheels with 231601 and two wheels with 272309.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1215.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1216.jpg

While on the wheels, I found these adorning the front wheel hubs:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1217.jpg
They look to be in good condition from the outside. Can't wait to pull them off and apart and see what they're like inside. If they are okay I might throw them on "DeeDee" (Daily Driver - a name at last!).

The Land Rover oval on the grille is not a Solihull one though:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1218.jpg

To finish off, just a couple of general snaps. The dash:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1219.jpg

and a couple of the engine bay:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1220.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1189.jpg

Now, the reason for the pressing purchase: I have been using "DeeDee" for a few weeks now as regular transport and have noticed a slow leak in a front tyre. Finally I removed the wheel and sprayed some soapy water over it to find not one but three leaks. One was a nail, one was a previous plug repair and one was just a small hole that I couldn't find anything in. I couldn't be bothered fixing three punctures when I knew I was going to change to standard LandRover 16" wheels and sell off the 15" Sunraysers without the bald tyres. So I refitted the wheel. I ran into some difficulties managing to catch up with the donor S2a (as it was locked away in a yard whose operating hours were very different to mine!) so things were dragging out. The other day I had to stop twice in one trip to top up the air as I was losing about 20psi per day. So when I got home one day I determined to fix at least one or two of the punctures.

The first repair went well (the nail) so I pressed on to attempt the previous repair that was leaking. I managed to removed the old repair, cleaned up the hole and then discovered that my tube of vulcanising fluid was actually full of non-vulcanising air:mad:. Dug out another tube to find it had also ruptured at some time and was now also gone:mad::mad:.

So I quickly made a determined effort to contact the donor car owner and make it clear that I was to get access to the car for a look / collect or I'd find something else. So now I have a source of wheels that I can fit some of my 7.50R16 tyres to, turn my DeeDee into a quadrapod instead of a tripod as it's been in the carport for a few days, and get mobile again.

One funny thing though. I've been using the Nissan ute for the last couple of days. Today it was quite hot but I turned the air-con off - it didn't feel right! I wound the window down and put the fan on full speed but really wanted to open some vents under the windscreen. I also found the thing too damn quiet - I could hear myself think and it was scary!;) I think I might have caught the Series Land Rover ownership disease.:D

Cheers
John B

NiteMare

5th February 2011, 02:46 AM

that steering wheel is the same as i have in my 1965 109 right down to the horn push, mine is all original (except i'm fitting a 200tdi)

JDNSW

5th February 2011, 05:52 AM

Chassis number I believe is 1961-2. Just about everything else agrees to this being the case. Steering wheel I believe is the same as Series 1, so it should fit your 80". And as you say, is an exceptional example.

The PMC plate and body number plate are normal and confirm that it is an Australian assembled one. The position of the blinkers indicates they were a dealer or owner addition. Diana (Lotza-landies) may have delivery details for it.

Wheels P/N 231601 are swb ones 5" wide and unsuitable for a 109, 272309 are lwb, 5.5" wide.

John

UncleHo

5th February 2011, 06:27 PM

G'day JayBoRover :)

I would agree with JDNSW that it is a 61-62 model definatly before 64 by the ign/headlight switch(with the tail) it would have been originally been produced as a Positive Earth generated vehicle but would have possibly long been converted to Neg earth,by "poling the generator" I love the oil breather tube on the motor,that thing with the converted radiator hose,it should have a cap similar to the rocker cover cap, it also has the later (more efficient) Zenith 36IV carby on it,the instrument panel shows a "optional extra" gauge in between the main gauges, possibly oil pressure or temp as was common a very original vehicle,speedo looks a little odd too it goes to 100mph it could be from a 6 cylinder series 2a or even a car.

As JD has said the 239601 rims are for the SWB and are only 5.00 inches and only suitable for 600/650/700 size tyres the rim offset is also different which would lead to a different track,the offset for 272309 is 1&13/16inches but I cant remember the 5 inch rim offset as there was only one

cheers

JayBoRover

5th February 2011, 10:50 PM

So the donor car is becoming interesting? The guy I bought it from definitely thought it was a 1970, and it was advertised as such. No problem though.

I removed the steering wheel today so I can see if it'll go on my DeeDee. The main activity for the day was trying to fit my better 7.50R16 tyres to as many of the 272309 wheels as I have. I did discover that under the paint of another wheel was the correct part number so I now have 3 of the 272309 wheels correct for the S2a and 6 of the 231601 correct for a S1, although only three are date stamped to be correct for my early 1950 S1.

I did measure up the 272309 S2a rims so later tonight I'll draw them up and compare the offsets to the 231601 S1 wheels. The S2a rims are wider so I'm on the right track and beginning to understand the differences.

So, onto some of your observations:
The extra gauge in the dash is a smiths combination oil pressure and water temperature gauge.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1183.jpg

Funnily enough there is a water temperature gauge also fitted to the extra dash panel nearer the steering column. I assume this is the standard one and the smiths one is an aftermarket later addition.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1184.jpg

The other main gauge seems to have been "fettled" as well. Should the fuel gauge be at the bottom even with the "FUEL" text at the upper right section?
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1185.jpg

... and yes, I also thought it funny for the speedo to go to 100mph in an old Land Rover!:D I was going to make a comment about it in my yesterday's post.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1186.jpg

While poking around under the bonnet I cleaned up this label:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1187.jpg
I assume this means it was originally delivered in Perth.

To wrap up, you noticed the oil breather pipe.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1188.jpg
I haven't seen one of these before. Does this allow the crankcase to breath independently of the rocker cover breather? The breather pipe does a big arc of the motor and then down the passengers side to hang down the crankcase beside the sump.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1189.jpg
I don't think it has any sort of cover over the end, but might have something inside it. I'll get to that one day.

I hosed a huge amount of dirt off the chassis today and exposed quite a bit. Funnily enough it seems the severe rust is where the dirt/mud wasn't. When great clumps of dirt fell off the steelwork, underneath was invariably intact and looking to be quite good. On the whole though, it is a wreck.

So now I have to find two more 272309 wheels, one to replace an S1 wheel on one corner and one to replace the S1 wheel as a spare. Looks like tomorrow I'll be fitting a couple of gift 15's to the Sunraysers to get me through a couple of weeks. Anyone have some S2a wheels for sale around Perth?

Cheers
John B

JDNSW

6th February 2011, 05:55 AM

So the donor car is becoming interesting? The guy I bought it from definitely thought it was a 1970, and it was advertised as such. No problem though.

Like many Landrovers of that age, it has had significant modifications through the years!

I removed the steering wheel today so I can see if it'll go on my DeeDee. The main activity for the day was trying to fit my better 7.50R16 tyres to as many of the 272309 wheels as I have. I did discover that under the paint of another wheel was the correct part number so I now have 3 of the 272309 wheels correct for the S2a and 6 of the 231601 correct for a S1, although only three are date stamped to be correct for my early 1950 S1.

Note that the distinction between wheels is not the age but short or long wheelbase (although at the time of your S1 there was no lwb). Also, the 272309 was optional for S2a swb.

..........

So, onto some of your observations:
The extra gauge in the dash is a smiths combination oil pressure and water temperature gauge.

This is actually the gauge that was an optional extra on this model (standard on diesels, at least in Australia) - but not in that location except in Australian military 2a Landrovers. Normally installed in a small panel to the right of the instrument panel.

Funnily enough there is a water temperature gauge also fitted to the extra dash panel nearer the steering column. I assume this is the standard one and the smiths one is an aftermarket later addition.

This is an addition as well. Landrovers up to 1967 had no temperature gauge fitted as standard (always thought this was a serious shortcoming). Also, the extra panel is steel - the optional Landrover one is aluminium, and pressed to match the main instrument panel. I am guessing that the temperature only gauge was added later after the capillary failed on the combined gauge - and the single gauge was a lot cheaper.

The other main gauge seems to have been "fettled" as well. Should the fuel gauge be at the bottom even with the "FUEL" text at the upper right section?

No. The fuel gauge and main beam warning light have been swapped in position, and the fuel gauge is not out of a Landrover - colour is wrong.

... and yes, I also thought it funny for the speedo to go to 100mph in an old Land Rover!:D I was going to make a comment about it in my yesterday's post.

Again, the speedo is definitely not out of a Landrover - all Landrover Series speedos were simple white on black with a white pointer. I would guess that both the speedo and fuel gauge are replacements sourced from a wrecker, and probably came from some other contemporary English car which also used Smiths instruments with a similar layout.

While poking around under the bonnet I cleaned up this label:
I assume this means it was originally delivered in Perth.

Yes

To wrap up, you noticed the oil breather pipe.
I haven't seen one of these before. Does this allow the crankcase to breath independently of the rocker cover breather? The breather pipe does a big arc of the motor and then down the passengers side to hang down the crankcase beside the sump. I don't think it has any sort of cover over the end, but might have something inside it. I'll get to that one day.

It originally had a small oiled wire air cleaner on the top of the oil filler, similar to the one on top of the rocker cover. Between the two, they allow crankcase ventilation, helped by the draught from the fan. This setup was replaced in the mid sixties (in Australia) by a positive crankcase ventilation system, that saw the roacker cover fitting venting into the elbow on top of the carburetter, and the filler pipe fitted with an airtight cap, with a tee off it to a positive crankcase ventilation valve next to the carburetter connected below the throttle valve. And no, I have never seen anything like yours either - I would guess the engine had developed so much blowby that it was chucking oil out the filler vent, and the owner added this contraption to stop it getting all over the distributor etc.

.......

Cheers
John B

Looking over any old Landrover is always quite interesting, just working out what changes have been made. The usual pattern is that when it was new, it would have had well thought out extras (such as the combined gauge here) but as the vehicle aged, it often gets fixed with whatever is to hand (such as the speedo and fuel gauge, mismatched wheels etc).

John

UncleHo

6th February 2011, 11:00 AM

G'day JayBoRover :)

I agree with JD again on this,the combined Smiths gauge would have been the genuine LR optional extra of the time, the gauge is a manual one with a capillary water temp and a live line oil guage,(usually1/8 brass tube) so when the capillary tube failed (they are repairable) the cheapest replacement was the electric 1/2 scale Smiths that would have been current stock,also used as a Landrover accessory,the other gauges in the instrument panel look to be Morris Major/Austin Lancer or possibly from a Rover Sedan P5/P6 (I will check with a Rover Car restorer during the week)

That oil breather is a doozie,as that is where you fill the crankcase,by removing the filler/breather :) but in your case you would have to remove the tubing to refill it,if it is like my motor was in my 2a when I removed my pistons the oil rings were broken into 32 pieces,it didn't smoke out of the exhaust but the fumes from the oil breather would choke you :eek:

If you have 3 x 272309 rims you only need 1 more because you could get away using a 231601 as a spare until you located the right rim

Hope that is of help

cheers

JayBoRover

6th February 2011, 11:18 AM

Thanks for your great input UncleHo & JDNSW:). Your explanations and reasoning behind your thoughts are really appreciated:cool:.
It seems at the moment that I have done well to get that beautiful steering wheel but everything else is ... well ... will take some work to sort out what's useable;).

Just a quick question on the use of the S1 (SWB) wheels on the 109" S2a. I'm assuming there is a possibility that the difference in offsets could be a problem if using the S1 wheels on the front (steering interference?) of the 109 and/or the weight potential of the 109 is what forced the change to wider wheels. Could I get away with using the SWB wheels at the back of the S2a for a few weeks if I do not load up the rear with any significant weight? (The donor S2a had a SWB wheel at one rear corner when I picked it up, so I know it doesn't interfere with anything, but it might have only been on there while being stored/dumped in the paddock).

Cheers
John B

UncleHo

6th February 2011, 11:48 AM

G'day John B :)

Yes, you could do that without problems,mine had 1 x SWB on the right front and one on the left rear all with different treads AND it was a driver :D
probably was a case of going to the wreckers and asking for a couple of landrover wheels with good tyres, "yeah! Mate,over there on that dunnga,$30 each OK, ;) well landrover wheels are landrover aint they"
remember that they look basically the same since 1949 and the rims bolt on even to the new ones

And with differing offsets, you would often get comments like,Yeah,I had a Landrover once, handled like a bag of S******,got rid of it and bought a T or N great trucks-----all my mates have them.

cheers

JDNSW

6th February 2011, 12:15 PM

The narrower wheels have frequently been used on lwb Landrovers (as in the example you have), with minimal oroblems. The major concern is that tyre manufacturers do not approve fitting 7.50 tyres to the narrower wheels, although it has been done often enough. But strictly speaking, it is a roadworthiness issue. The change in offset will cause no problems at the back, and the only problem at the front is that you may have to adjust the steering stops to prevent rubbing on the springs on full lock - but you may need to do this anyway when changing from the Sunraysia wheels.

John

JayBoRover

23rd April 2011, 08:28 PM

I started some serious work on my donor S2a today. I had previously removed the wheels, drag link and steering wheel in preparation for those migrating to my DeeDee S2a. It turned out the steering wheel doesn't work with the steering shaft fitted to DeeDee but does go straight onto the S1 that was missing a steering wheel, so that all turned out okay. Unfortunately it means I still require a steering wheel for DeeDee. I'll have to figure out exactly what is different about the setup on DeeDee so I know what to look/ask for.

Anyway, in the process of stripping the donor car of major rusted items I came across an official looking piece of paper wrapped in a plastic bag. Upon opening it I discovered a notice from the "Police Department" dated 1972 for a vehicle licence renewal. As well as providing the details of the owner at that time, it also details the identification of the Land Rover. Given the previous discussion in this thread about the year of my donor it was great to see the year identified as well as the engine and chassis numbers.

So the Police notice is for a 1964, Land Rover, Grey and White, Petrol, 4 cylinder, Eng No. 251188784F, Chassis No. 25308816. All this seems to agree with what I have, other than I have not yet been able to locate the Chassis or Engine numbers.

Now the flip side: The person I bought the donor from gave me the data plate that he said had been removed from the bulkhead. This shows the Vehicle No. as 25308881B. Bugger! So now I'm back to trying to confirm the actual engine and chassis I have.

Can anyone tell me where to be looking for the engine number? I have had a bit of a look in the location I have seen engine numbers on S1's, just in front of the exhaust manifold, but can't see anything there. There is a reasonable amount of crud about though, so I'll give it a clean tomorrow.

I'll include some photo's in an update tomorrow.
Cheers
John B

chazza

23rd April 2011, 08:56 PM

The engine no. is where you suspect it is, give it a rub with some emery cloth.

The chassis no. should be on the LH rear spring hanger - failing that check all of the spring hangers,

Cheers Charlie

drifter

24th April 2011, 02:33 PM

Now the flip side: The person I bought the donor from gave me the data plate that he said had been removed from the bulkhead. This shows the Vehicle No. as 25308881B. Bugger! So now I'm back to trying to confirm the actual engine and chassis I have.

Can anyone tell me where to be looking for the engine number? I have had a bit of a look in the location I have seen engine numbers on S1's, just in front of the exhaust manifold, but can't see anything there. There is a reasonable amount of crud about though, so I'll give it a clean tomorrow.

I'll include some photo's in an update tomorrow.
Cheers
John B

The engine no. is where you suspect it is, give it a rub with some emery cloth.

The chassis no. should be on the LH rear spring hanger - failing that check all of the spring hangers,

Cheers Charlie
People swapped those data plates around quite indiscriminately.

The real proof is on the item.

The engine number is where Chazza said.

http://kiwi-in-oz.com/pictures/photos/800/1D322059.jpg

just slightly under the horizontal plane of the manifold. Those 2 bolts you see ^^^ are at the front of the manifold.

JayBoRover

24th April 2011, 06:06 PM

Thanks guys.
My donor car chassis number is: 25308881B. (The Police Department record has missed one of the "8"s and misread the lower case "b" as a "6". I guess they can't all be detectives:D).
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/415.jpg

The engine number is 25188784F. (As per the Police Department record exactly).
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/416.jpg

I'm guessing that because the engine and chassis number are relatively close in sequence it is likely to be an original pairing. Great shame the chassis is such a complete wreck ... and I suspect the engine might not be much better. we'll see, as the engine might see life again one day in my DeeDee if I ever decide to put a 2.25 back in to replace the Holden 6 in there. (Unlikely it'll go into my S1 as the '49 sideplate engine I have for that will be nice in there - unless someone puts a really good case for not doing so).

My efforts in stripping the old girl are proving very slow. Every second bolt ends up getting broken and every other one is very hard work! My leg being in a brace limiting movement to between 15 and 90 degrees isn't exactly helping:mad:.

The rear door came off. It was a real struggle because not only the usual bolt/nut problem but also it was made entirely of steel and was ridiculously heavy. I'll get some close-ups of some of the interesting bits later so all I have is the "hole" where the door "was".
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/417.jpg

The doors are removed. Very, very rusty frames but I did retrieve the hinges and door handles and window glass. Not sure if there's any market for them but I figure they'll hang about as long as I have my DeeDee S2a anyway - unless someone harangues me for bits.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/418.jpg

An interesting find was that the drivers seat is on slide rails! My S2a definitely doesn't have these.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/419.jpg

I couldn't get it to slide because of all the crap in the rails but the actuating lever did work and I could see it disengage from the slots in the rail.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/420.jpg

I'll come back to the steering wheel end of the steering column later, as it's different to what's on my DeeDee and I want to know why so I can lookout for the correct steering wheel to fit DeeDee. The one that was on the donor is the same mounting arrangement as for my 80" S1, so that's where it will find a new home.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/421.jpg
Cheers
John B

drifter

24th April 2011, 06:20 PM

I have the sliding rails on the drivers seat in mine, too. (109" )

bobslandies

24th April 2011, 08:25 PM

Hi John,

Here is some comparative information on your two 109s.

From Grenville Motors (New South Wales) records it appears that your "b" vehicle Chassis Number 25308881b (Eng 2518878F) was assembled toward the end of 1964 as the following vehicles 25308871 to 25308876 and 25308883 to 25308888 were sold in October to December 1964. They are listed as 109 4 cyl Softops and Hardtops. Your engine is close to the range fitted to these vehicles.

The "G" series vehicle Chassis Number 25330460G would have been assembled around the end of 1969 as numbers 25330437G to 25330448G were sold in October to December 1969. They are listed as 109 4 cyl Standard (Softtops) but subsequently Hard Tops were fitted to some as requested by purchasers.

Hope this is of some help in dating your vehicles.

Some of Faulls' records survive. PM me and I will give you a contact who may know if the records cover these vehicles.

Bob

JayBoRover

1st May 2011, 10:25 PM

G'day JayBoRover :)

I agree with JD again on this,the combined Smiths gauge would have been the genuine LR optional extra of the time, the gauge is a manual one with a capillary water temp and a live line oil guage,(usually1/8 brass tube) so when the capillary tube failed (they are repairable) the cheapest replacement was the electric 1/2 scale Smiths that would have been current stock,also used as a Landrover accessory,the other gauges in the instrument panel look to be Morris Major/Austin Lancer or possibly from a Rover Sedan P5/P6 (I will check with a Rover Car restorer during the week)

If you have 3 x 272309 rims you only need 1 more because you could get away using a 231601 as a spare until you located the right rim

Hope that is of help
cheers
Hiya UncleHo,
I pulled the dual gauge out of the dash and sure as eggs you were right - the capillary water line has been cut about 8" into the engine bay after it passed through the bulkhead from the rear of the dash. I'm considering getting the capillary replaced and fitting the gauge to my DeeDee. Be nice to have the actual oil pressure and temp as opposed to the current oil warning lamp and the water temp gauge with a cold and red zone with a clear band between.

I think I'm onto a single 272309 wheel, so I will press a 231601 into service as the spare until I can track down some more. I saw an ad in the Quokka here in Perth for 3 wheels for $60. Sold by the time I rang. Oh well, next time.
Cheers
John B

JayBoRover

1st May 2011, 10:55 PM

More progress on stripping the donor S2a. This bit fell off last week ...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1789.jpg

... leaving the donor a little "lighter" ...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1790.jpg

... and then the sides fell off too ...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1791.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1792.jpg

... and the bullbar, grille and bumper. (The bullbar was welded to the chassis rails in a location I couldn't get a grinder to so I had to hacksaw the support arms at the top).
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1793.jpg

The seat box came out ...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1794.jpg

... leaving the cabin area as spacious as a disco!:D
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1795.jpg

That was mostly done over Easter weekend. This weekend I have got all but two bolts out to remove the tub. (A bit of grinding action to cut the brackets to the rear cross member as the crossmember is completely shot). Next weekend the tub will come out and I'll post some piccies of what I find of the remaining parts of the chassis.

I have started having evil thoughts:twisted: of how nice it would be to revive the old girl, considering it seems to be a completely numbers matching 1964 truck. From what I can tell so far the chassis centre section and all outriggers look okay. The gearbox crossmember looks good and not even dented. Is it worth trying to cut out the entire back and front and restoring it? I will wait until I have taken the tub out and removed the front fenders and radiator to see how the front end looks, although I already know the dumbirons are gone and the bulkhead is stuffed. I also want to see if the engine turns over, so I'll do some basic checks there too. If the old girl has some provenance it would help, but I think it's just been a farm hack. It's not being very useful as a parts donor for my DeeDee though:(.

Maybe when I get it torn down a little further I might have to get someone that knows a little about these old things to have a look at it with me. I have a bad habit of forgetting to take off my rose tinted glasses at times:cool:, so a realistic person might be useful.
Cheers
John B

chazza

2nd May 2011, 07:58 AM

They are dear old things! :D

John pardon me for being intrusive but it greatly alarms me to see your Rover sitting on bricks :eek: for the following reasons:
1. Bricks in this application can work loose from vibration performed, whilst working on the car, allowing the machine to fall! Once one stack collapses the other three will follow rapidly, giving you no chance at all if you are under it.

2. Bricks whilst strong in compression, can fail from the localised pressure your car is placing on them i.e. the axle tube is placing a concentrated load in the centre of the brick as opposed to all over it when the brick is used in a wall. Once one brick cracks and splits the single brick remaining takes all of the load followed by death-stalking!

3. Even mortared bricks in a pier can fail from a sideways thrust; your stacks can do the same thing just from the car being bumped.

As a solution might I suggest the following?

1. Replace the bricks with cribs of timber (if money is an issue) - we use 90 x 45 x 300mm pieces of timber in the SES to support heavy loads, stacked in an open pier.

2. Buy four axle stands. I recommend the Liftech 3000 kg stands as being highly suitable; my last pair cost about $90 I think. I use them to support my Disco and S3 and they seem perfect for all jobs.

Too many people have died horrible deaths because of bricks - please don't let there be another one,

Cheers Charlie

Radical

2nd May 2011, 11:53 AM

Soon as I seen the bricks i thought of a person I new no longer with us because he did the old brick stack stand,it give me a big knot in my chest.Charlie has done a wonderful job on explaining this, and I am greatful for how he did it. I understand exactly how you feel about wanting to rebuild what you have, I have 5 different vehicles of the various species called Land Rover in various states of dispair/repair. It sort of becomes a disease because now you will find another that you just might be able to use and then another etc etc tsk tsk.They all tell a story as you remove bits and they disintegrate and become bits of a story that if I put them back together with this then that I will have a a a a real Landy! Long Live The Dream! Never Give Up! And if you think people think you are mad,Of course you are mad,but it''s a good mad!
Well I guess that has to do for now,I have to go and look and see if that body will fit that chassis and that gearbox fit that motor or what about that Holden 186 motor down the back will that fit,ohhhhh gosh i am back to where i started.
You just got to love em!
Konrad

Ps We are all mad!

JayBoRover

2nd May 2011, 07:41 PM

wrinklearthur

2nd May 2011, 09:24 PM

Charlie, Konrad.
Thanks for your concern guys - I am touched:). Note in the photo's that I have placed a paver at the top of the bricks to spread the load and used two bricks together and each layer is placed perpendicular to the previous layer. However, given your concern, I will get an extra pair of axle stands this weekend and remove the brick stands so we can all sleep easy. In the mean time I won't work underneath it.

I was concerned I was going mad. Thanks Konrad for confirming my worst fear! It didn't take long ... I've only had Land Rovers a few months.

Cheers
John B
Hi All
I tried to resist but it was to no good, I'm also smitten with Land Rover repair syndrome.
It goes nicely with Buddhism, what you don't get done in this lifetime can be finnished in the next life!!
I wish I was a bit closer to you, John, as I have some rims here in good condition that are the same as the ones you need.

Give the bricks the flick and make or buy some wide based steel supports.
paver are worse for cracking than bricks are.

Cheers Arthur

JayBoRover

8th May 2011, 09:38 PM

I didn't get a chance to take any photo's today, but I bought a pair of 4000kg axle stands to go with my 3000kg ones I already had, so the donor is now sitting securely on stands.:angel:

I also managed to get a pair of 272309 wheels on Saturday so now I have a set of 5:). Now I've just got to strip them all of their various colours of paint and rust, buy a new set of tubes and tyres and they'll be ready to go on. Any thoughts on tubes? In the Motorcycle Cross Country Rally or Enduro Racing game I use either Mousses (a high density foam rubber solid "tube" - no air) or UHD tubes (Ultra Heavy Duty - 4mm thick rubber!). Is there different grades of light truck tubes and what does everyone use in 7.50x16 tyres?

While at Ron's place to pick up the wheels I also spied a S2a steering wheel hanging in the shed and he was happy enough to pass it on for a few dollars. It needs a bit of work with some epoxy around the centre where the spokes "attach", and the inner ring is a little rusty and coming apart, but I'm pretty sure I can work with it. I'll post some photo's soon.

I also fixed a flat on my 80" S1 today (replaced the tube due to the valve pulling away from the tube when I changed it a while ago) so that I can relocate it into a garage and make room for my DeeDee in the carport that the S1 is hogging at the moment. Then the rains can come (please) and my DeeDee won't fill up with water - just the household water tanks;).
Cheers
John B

mick88

9th May 2011, 06:41 AM

I read this thread from start to present...great thread.
Great looking Landy, can we see some latest pics of it?

Cheers Mick :)

JayBoRover

9th May 2011, 07:14 PM

I read this thread from start to present...great thread.
Great looking Landy, can we see some latest pics of it?

Cheers Mick :)

Thanks for Mick. I appreciate your interest.
I've been busy preparing my Nissan ute for sale so DeeDee hasn't seen any changes since the last photo's I posted here. I've also been busy stripping the donor as I believe if I get it down to a collection of parts hidden in various sheds, it'll be easier (ie the good wife won't kill me) to buy another if a good opportunity comes up. I'm also expecting my new Dakar bike to be here in early August and that will take up my time a fair bit until after the Aus Safari in September. I will get some piccies this weekend of the steering wheel, drag link and wheels I now need to prepare for going onto DeeDee.

UncleHo

10th May 2011, 01:24 PM

G'day JayBoRover :)

When you buy new tubes and tyres make sure that the tyres have all the little stickers inside (passed/OK etc) removed from them, or they will rub through the tubes when in use, the tubes, go for heavy duty tubes with short rubber stems, not the long Toyota cruiser type, fit tubes one size smaller than the tyre, I.E. for 7.50 x16 tyres fit 6.00/6.50 tubes, that allows for stretching of the tube, so that when a repair is done it is easier to fit the work stretched tube back into the tyre,similar to m/cycle tubes on road bikes of the 70's 80's ;)

cheers

JayBoRover

11th May 2011, 11:08 PM

The results of my shopping in the weekend.
The new 4,000kg axle stands to replace the axle bricks at the front ...:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1281.jpg

... and my other set of 3,000kg axle stands to replace the axle bricks at the rear:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1282.jpg

Now I can crawl underneath to undo the last bolts holding the tub in at the front without giving people sleepless nights regarding my surviving my Land Rover;).

I also bought a small Karcher water blaster and tested it the other night on the grunge around the gearbox and transfer case:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1283.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1284.jpg

Another purchase, but not new this time, was a S2a steering wheel:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1285.jpg

The centre is a little rusty ...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1286.jpg

... with the "ring" in poor condition and coming loose. Anyone know if you can get just the ring? I'm also missing the centre and I suspect there's supposed to be a horn button in the centre, although I'm happy enough with the horn button on the dash. It's generally only 100m or so past the point I need it that I finally get to press it:(. Gets a funny look anyway:D. In this photo you can also see the cracking of the spoke at the centre hub. It doesn't go all around. I'm hoping some epoxy injected in there will stop it getting worse and then a clean-up and paint.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1287.jpg

There is some cracking at the other end of the spokes as well but again I don't think it's too bad and I'll try the same fix method. I plan to get a leather cover for the outer rim anyway.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1288.jpg

This is the drag link removed from the donor car. it'll need a fair bit of work to clean up but I have replacement ball joints for the rod ends already:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1289.jpg

Final purchase was these two wheels:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1290.jpg

Now I have a set of five, although the two new ones are by far the best of them as regards to condition.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1291.jpg

This one I've attacked with a hand scraper followed by a rotary wire brush in an electric drill followed by some steel wool.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1292.jpg

It started out looking similar to this one:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1293.jpg

Both are quite bad inside, so I think I'm going to sieve some firebreak sand and try my little 10 gallon sand blaster on them. It might be a couple of weeks for that though - especially now I'm tempted into going up to Gingin for the British Car Day on Sunday.

Finally, a slightly blurry photo of DeeDee as she stands tonight. Only external change since last time is I fitted the sun visor from the donor car.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/933.jpg
I'll replace the photo with a focussed one in the weekend.
Ciao
JayBo

UncleHo

11th May 2011, 11:45 PM

G'day JoBoRover :)

That drag link from the donor vehicle has the accessory steering damper rod fitting on it, yours being a later vehicle will have the steering damper as standard and the drag link will be a 2 piece unit with the damper fitting (pin type) as part of the long section,the other end of the damper connects to the built in chassis mount (double pin type damper) the early damper from memory was pin, and eye on the rod,but may have been double eye,it would be clamped/welded to the Left chassis rail, that was one of the production changes during the 2a lifetime steering dampers became standard and the safety dished steering wheel (with shorter steering shaft)came as part of a safety upgrade also with the option of vacc boosted brakes.;)

Love the sun visor very rare now, a good save and you will get benefit from it,also to make a little more comfort find/fit a pair of series 3 interior sunvisors,they fit into rivet locations above the screen I have a pair on my 2a,not original but a good safety item when driving into the sun.

cheers

Radical

11th May 2011, 11:47 PM

Good job with the stands mate,looks like the series disease has got you well and truly now,Dee Dee was certainly a good buy.They are awesome old machines,even the ones I have look like they are drivable from a distance,if only one was drivable would be great,nothing like the sound of a Landy especially in low range.
Cheers Konrad

JayBoRover

12th May 2011, 01:28 PM

G'day JoBoRover :)
Love the sun visor very rare now, a good save and you will get benefit from it,also to make a little more comfort find/fit a pair of series 3 interior sunvisors,they fit into rivet locations above the screen I have a pair on my 2a,not original but a good safety item when driving into the sun.
cheers
I'll have to have a look at the S3 sun visor you speak of. Currently there is an overhead console with a pair of visors that don't strike me as being original. I'll get a good picture this weekend but you can see the end of it in this pic.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1270.jpg

The visor works very well even with very low setting sun. I will be ripping out the console and building myself a better one though and will probably re-use the existing visors as they work so well.

I'll have a good look at the drag link and steering damper issue too. Thanks for your input.:)
Cheers
John B

JayBoRover

12th May 2011, 10:31 PM

This is a statement I made many posts ago in this thread:
"...the tacho about 2,800rpm with the 186 Holden motor buzzing along nicely."
Well, I made an interesting discovery. It's a 202! Not a 186.

Did I hear someone say "of course it's a 202, it's a blue motor". Well it seems that 186's were also made as blue motors, although the red motors seem to be the ones you generally come across or hear about. I was told it was a 186 and I thought I'd seen something in the file referring to a 186, but I didn't really think or worry about it as long as it went well.

After someone bailed me up about it the other day (he was convinced there are no blue 186 motors) I hunted for an engine number. Couldn't find an engine number but did find a large "3.3" on the lhs of the block down low near the sump. A quick check on Wikipedia and it seems the 3.3 there means it's a 202. That explains now why I ended up with a 202 thermostat balance pipe when the 186 one didn't fit. Why didn't I realise that at the time??

Lotz-A-Landies

12th May 2011, 10:56 PM

JayBoRover

12th May 2011, 11:41 PM

I think there were black 186 but not blue, in any case they were called 3000 (186) or 3300 (202) when they changed colour.

By the way, if you have a blue or black Holden 6, you may find that it has a lightweight flywheel. For off road low rev torque you are better off with an earlier heavier flywheel off a red engine.
It seems you are quite correct in that the Blue motors were 173 and 202 only - not 186. Same resource (Wikipedia) states the Black motors were 3.3 litre only. It's more fun coming here than looking on Wiki though;)

UncleHo

13th May 2011, 01:54 PM

G'day JayBoRover :)

I have an 84 VH commodore which has the the blue motor, 3300/202 you will find that there is a raised casting on the left side of the block just behind the alternator which denotes the engine size 186,202,3.3(3300) 2.8 (2850)/186 the old US/Aust size was in Cubic inches, then with the Commodore is all went Metric (cc) just out of interest the Landrover 2.25 (2286) ltre motor is 139 cubic inch on inch bigger than the original Holden 49-60 grey motor ;) that is why the early Holden carby jetted down to a 50 main jet works quite well on a Landrover 4cyl :) more ecomonical that the Solex was

cheers

JayBoRover

14th May 2011, 10:36 PM

I managed to squeeze in a little more work on the donor S2a today. Another bit "fell off"...:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/873.jpg

... leaving an exposed chassis at the rear:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/874.jpg

The rear of the chassis rails are obviously cactus along with the rear cross-member that has all but disappeared. The rest of the chassis up to the bulkhead looks fairly okay though, including the outriggers. I'm really starting to think about this one now - even made some space in a carport to store the parts I'm taking off. Matching numbers, 1964, 109", S2a. Everything needs work on it but ... it's growing on me. What do I do?

Next weekend I hope to remove the front guards and the bonnet and try turning the engine over. The next trick will be getting things ready for removing the engine, gearbox and transfer box.

There'll be no progress on it tomorrow as me and DeeDee are heading up to GinGin for the British Car Day to meet a few other WA-Aulro'ians.

UncleHo - yes the block in DeeDee has raised casting with "3.3" on it.
Ciao
John B

chazza

15th May 2011, 07:08 AM

I Everything needs work on it but ... it's growing on me. What do I do?

Keep the bits well hidden so as not to irritate spouse etc and do the S1 first :D

Lostkiwi

15th May 2011, 03:52 PM

Keep the bits well hidden so as not to irritate spouse etc and do the S1 first :D

^^^^^ I agree:) Id do the same:D

JayBoRover

11th June 2011, 11:13 PM

While doing one of my regular sweeps of eBay I stumbled across a pair of these being auctioned:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/964.jpg

They eventually sold for $33, so I thought I'd better go and have a look at my donor S2a and sure enough, there on the bonnet spare wheel mount was a pair of the same thing.

So my DeeDee went from this ...:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/965.jpg

... to this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/966.jpg

I was worried about the fact that they sit clear of the bonnet, as I was expecting they'd pull down tight and pivot from the long end, but I've now been told they don't get pulled down tight and they are the correct ones to use. (Obviously they aren't installed fully in the photo and they do screw further down that shown. I'll post up a photo of them installed properly when I've replaced the wheel with a freshly painted one). All good.

The other recent change is the addition of a set of wheels:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/967.jpg
These were a great buy as they are in good condition and came with tyres with 80% tread, four wheels and five tyres, for $10ea! Then I spotted a Drag Link leaning against the fence and offered him $10 for that and he refused the money saying he'd be embarrassed to take money for it. It came with a genuine steering damper fitted, so I assumed it would be stuffed. Got home and took the damper off and extended it and contracted it through it's range and not a sceric of air in it ... perfect!

So pretty soon I'll have an original Drag Link fitted and the correct steering wheel on to complement the wheels. Then over time I'll get through each wheel with the sand blaster, primer and paint. After some time of being sure I've made the right decision, I should have a hydraulic ram power steering system, Momo sports steering wheel and a set of 15" wheels for sale.

I've been using DeeDee heaps for work, doing regular trips of around 125km each way, 3 or 4 days per week for a few weeks. I'm happy to say I've had no problems (unlike my Nissan Patrol that **** it's brake fluid all over the concrete one night) and I really, really enjoy driving it. Even more that I've got the proper wheels on it. Can't wait to change the steering wheel.

Catch ya'll.

JayBoRover

12th June 2011, 09:59 PM

I spent some more time on DeeDee today. (I got sick of working on the Nissan Patrol and needed to do something rewarding;)). I've taken all the power steering system off (hydraulic reservoir, hydraulic pump, hydraulic ram, modified Drag Link and the hoses) and put an original Drag Link and 16" original wheels back on. The wheels are fitted with Dunlop Road Gripper tyres in 7.50x16, with about 80% tread on them.

I've been running with the 16" wheels and tyres for the last week but it'll be different without the Momo steering wheel and power steering. Might go for a test drive after dinner;). The new tie rod ends fitted to each end of the Drag Link should make a nice difference too. Maybe no more wondering around the lane?

It had 31x10.5R15 tyres on Sunraysia style rims so the power steering was installed to make that easier - as well as covering for the small Momo sports steering wheel (by previous owners).

I worked until well after dark as it was so no photo's unfortunately. I will take some photo's of the stuff I've removed though and post it up later, probably next weekend.

Cheers
John B

Lostkiwi

14th June 2011, 03:08 PM

So is it a nice change with the "arm strong" steering?;)

Good to see you are going back to the way it should be:)

JayBoRover

14th June 2011, 08:51 PM

So is it a nice change with the "arm strong" steering?;)

Good to see you are going back to the way it should be:)
At around 9:30pm Sunday night I suddenly stood up and announced to the wife I was going to take the S2a for a test drive to see how it feels. She thought I was a bit crazy and said as much. "What ... NOW?":D. So I headed out and onto the Freeway for 8km's then back by some suburban streets and country roads.

It definitely requires a fair bit more effort when stopped or going slow and you have to start the process of turning a little earlier for intersection turns. I have no idea how people manage to turn these Series' with 15" wheels and wide tyres without power steering:eek:. Probably the hardest thing to get used to though is the size of the steering wheel and the fact I now have to take my hand off the wheel to turn the indicator stalk. Also the nice leather bound feel of the little Momo was nice. I think I'll be buying one of those nice leather covers for the S2a wheel after I've renovated it. I also notice that the wheel size now means a deliberate effort to see the speedo, whereas with the little Momo wheel the speedo was always in view.

I am very happy that I have taken another step to making the driving experience a little closer to "the way it should be":angel:. I also like the fact that externally it looks more like a traditional Series Landy while retaining some "mod cons" inside. I want to start sorting out my camping arrangement for the back and changing out the overhead console so I can actually hear the 2-way, and maybe the radio. Then I really want to start doing something with the S1, although I suspect my Australasian Safari campaign and possible Dakar support crew role entry may take precedence for the rest of the year.

Good times:)

hodgo

14th June 2011, 10:06 PM

It seems you are quite correct in that the Blue motors were 173 and 202 only - not 186. Same resource (Wikipedia) states the Black motors were 3.3 litre only. It's more fun coming here than looking on Wiki though;)
__________________________________________________ ___________
I had two holdens 186's HR and HK from new, both had red motors

Hodgo

JayBoRover

27th June 2011, 11:28 PM

I got off the train and headed to the car-park to pick up DeeDee for the drive home. As I walked closer I thought "she seems to be leaning uphill". Sure enough, the drivers side rear tyre had the air at the top:(. Not ideal to be getting on for dark, in my day's business attire and having to change a wheel. Then to discover that the bottle jack didn't like life any more and had swapped some of it's vital life fluid for air:mad:. Then the spare "scissor" jack was missing the handle!

Scrummaged about and found the big shifter, so used that one quarter turn at a time on the scissor jack. Slow but got there okay.

Got home and had a look at the flat tyre. Found a nice split in the tube to align with the split in the tyre sidewall:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/70.jpg
This was one of the tyres that came with the $10 wheels, so I can't complain too much ... or at all really;). So I grabbed another of the same tyre, and also a tube, from my pile of used spares, got my Tyre-Pliers kit out and the usual assortment of dishwashing liquid, overalls, rubber mallet and rags and set about changing the tyre. I'm getting faster at it because the whole process, including putting the original wheel back on the hub and putting the spare back on the bonnet, only took me about 1 1/4 hours.

Funnily enough, I got a flat on the pushbike on Saturday morning when out for a group ride. When back at the cycle shop for a post ride coffee and toast (weekly regular) and buying a replacement pair of tubes, the shop owner said "these things come in threes they say". I replied quite adamantly "nope, I fit new tyres and tubes at the first puncture and never have that 2nd or 3rd flat that everyone else does". Well bugger me - maybe he was right but it isn't contained to the same transport equipment?? I might check the wheelbarrow tyre tomorrow - hopefully it's flat and I can drive DeeDee the 125km to Harvey for work on Wednesday without worry:D.

Cheers
John B

JayBoRover

1st August 2013, 11:20 PM

Been a long time since I've posted anything on the S2a (DeeDee) progress. I had the necessity today to provide recent photo's of DeeDee for a couple of reasons (one for the potential film debut in an episode of ABC's "Who has been living in my house?" and two for the potential temporary sale for an American to tour Oz for a year), so I thought to share them here:cool:.

Changes since the last time DeeDee graced this thread is the fitment of the windscreen sunshade (donated from the '64 S2a donor car) and the original size wheels and tyres (also donated from the '64 donor car). The "chassis black" paint chipping off the bumper bar galvanising is evidence that I've been getting 'out and about' plenty in the old thing. It doesn't just sit here in the driveway:angel:. (Of course it also shows that I should have used primer and not just rely on the chassis paint being able to hang onto the galvanising;))

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1553.jpg (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/GaelJohn/media/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/P7310003_zps164d156a.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1554.jpg (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/GaelJohn/media/Series%20IIA%20Land%20Rover/P7310002_zpsa517cd71.jpg.html)