ID Help please

[FinnMcCool]

Hello Fellow Series One'rs (not sure I qualify to include myself in the group yet),

I haven't participated in a forum before, so please excuse my idiosyncrasies and indiscretions. I said 'Hi and Sup!' in the intro section a few days ago.

I have recently bought a Series I but have not seen it yet. I bought it from my mates Dad so am comfortable it will be in the condition he said it is in.

Could you please help me to identify it?

What I know:
Mates Dad said it is a 54 86"

Chassis # is 177601332 - being a 9 digit chassis number which I believe places it around 1955/56
Pictures attached show a front radiator panel/guard thingy with the single hole and the small arched holes over the chassis rails which I think places it as a 88" Sorry the 'whole car' photo is bad quality. It is a photo of a photo.

I look forward to your wealth of knowledge and occasional ramblings.

[back_in]

Hi
set your mind at rest
it is not a 1958
somewhat earlier
cheers
Ian

[russellrovers]

hi it looks as if a early 88 inch with 3 apertures in the front panel good luck jim

[dennisS1]

Hi, looks like you are a very lucky new owner congratulations.
It will be a 1955 model 86" RHD CKD 1332 of a great model. I have 177600088 very similar to yours the front panel being the main difference, yours will be steel where mine is Aluminium and with different holes.
Dennis

[FinnMcCool]

Thanks for your thoughts guys. And for the congratulations - I am a little excited :D

I am hoping it is not an 88" - not that I have anything against them. In fact my first LR was a SIIa 63 88"

The radiator panel is confusing me. Do you think it is off something else like an 88"? Why would it have the inverted T grill over a single central hole. Any idea what should be on this vehicle if this is not the correct one?

As for year - there is a fair bit of disparity in the info around the net.
EG
Land Rover FAQ: Repair & Maintenance - Series - Chassis Numbers by Year (http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/FAQ.S.Chassis_Numbers.Year.html) says it is a 1956.
Clifton Scientific Text Services, the Netherlands (http://www.clifton.nl/index.html?calvin.html) says it is a 1955.

Here are a couple more details I was given:
Engine # 212192 (Looks like it might actually be a part # of some sort)
Body # LRS444
Serial # 86/444

Does any of that mean anything to anyone?

Thanks again.

[russellrovers]

yes the panel could have been used on from a 88 s1 or a 109 s1 would like to check it for you regards jim

[dennisS1]

Don’t see the confusion, It is a 86" and if you look at a Land Rover service or owner’s manual it will state that the serial number range for 1955 86" start at 57660001 and 177600001. As I posted before my 86" is no177600088 and has the AL front but by your number I have seen several with steel fronts.
All s1 from 54 have the inverted T grill regardless of the number of holes.
Dennis

[Col.Coleman]

Sorry Dennis, but you need to have another look

In '54 and '55, the chassis no's first digit referrred to the year. In '56 it changed to the 4th digit.

I have 2 x '55 86", 1 x '56 107" and 1 x '56 109".

A CKD "86 would have the following prefixes

54 - 4766
55 - 5766
56 - 1766

Late '56 went to 88" and 109".

You also have the later bulkhead, with the curved bracing connecting the tunnel section.

Seeing you have a bonnet spare wheel mount, the ali one used to crumble under the weight of a tyre over rough ground and could have been replaced. I have seen plenty of '56's with the steel breakfast panel though.

I have the documents to back this up too. A '57 manual covering 54-57 models with 2 suppplements.

Don't believe Clifton. It couldn't work out a '56 107"

CC

[Col.Coleman]

Here are a couple more details I was given:
Engine # 212192 (Looks like it might actually be a part # of some sort)
Body # LRS444
Serial # 86/444

Does any of that mean anything to anyone?

Thanks again.

Body and serial # is just your PMC assembly no.

Engine # is a casting#

You will find your engine# front left infront of the exhaust manifold next to the coolant inlet pipe. It should be prefix 1706, same with the gearbox and axles.

CC

[dennisS1]

We will need a higher adjudicator.
But I am sticking with what is clearly printed in LR manuals it is in the 1955 model that they changed the numbering. The car may have been built in 56.
Dennis

[russellrovers]

hi finn if you come out to cleve land i have a original for you look at1956 s1 86 inch jim

[Col.Coleman]

We will need a higher adjudicator.
But I am sticking with what is clearly printed in LR manuals it is in the 1955 model that they changed the numbering. The car may have been built in 56.
Dennis

Models ran accross years. August was the company's summer holiday shut down, and after recommencing, out came the next years model.

So it is the other way around. It is numbered a '56, but may have been built in '55. But by the number it is '56 model.
This is what yours is Dennis. It is a '56 model year numbered vehicle, but built in '55. Land Rover generally did the CKD export vehicles first, going by the dispatch records at Gaydon, so with yours being the 88th CKD RHD Export vehicle made it would have been Sept-Oct 1955. Doesn't make it a '55 model though.

For mine, I have the dispatch records, and the Grenville motor records. For example, my 1955 Ex-SMHEA no's 5776 was dispatched out of Grenville Motors to the SMHEA on 5/5/1955.



Reference material.

Technical publication No. TP165A
Part No. 4057
Printed January 1954
Workshop Manual covering 1954
86 Models
Basic Home Vehicle 47100001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle LHD Export 47130001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle RHD Export 47160001 Onwards
CKD LHD Export 47630001 Onwards
CKD RHD Export 47660001 Onwards
107 Models
Basic Home Vehicle 47200001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle LHD Export 47230001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle RHD Export 47260001 Onwards

Supplement No. 1 to TP165A
Printed September 1954
Supplement covering 1955
86 Models
Basic Home Vehicle 57100001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle LHD Export 57130001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle RHD Export 57160001 Onwards
CKD LHD Export 57630001 Onwards
CKD RHD Export 57660001 Onwards
107 Models
Basic Home Vehicle 57200001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle LHD Export 57230001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle RHD Export 57260001 Onwards



Supplement No. 2 to TP165A
Printed June 1956
Supplement Covering 1956/57
86 models
RHD Home 17060001 Onwards
RHD Export 17660001 Onwards
RHD CKD 17760001 Onwards
LHD Export 17360001 Onwards
LHD CKD 17460001 Onwards
88 Models
RHD Home 11160001 Onwards
RHD Export 11260001 Onwards
RHD CKD 11360001 Onwards
LHD Export 11460001 Onwards
LHD CKD 11560001 Onwards
88 Models
RHD Home 11170001 Onwards
RHD Export 11270001 Onwards
RHD CKD 11370001 Onwards
LHD Export 11470001 Onwards
LHD CKD 11570001 Onwards
107 Models
RHD Home 27060001 Onwards
RHD Export 27660001 Onwards
RHD CKD 27760001 Onwards
LHD Export 27360001 Onwards
LHD CKD 27460001 Onwards
109 Models
RHD Home 21160001 Onwards
RHD Export 21260001 Onwards
RHD CKD 21360001 Onwards
LHD Export 21460001 Onwards
LHD CKD 21560001 Onwards
109 Models
RHD Home 21170001 Onwards
RHD Export 21270001 Onwards
RHD CKD 21370001 Onwards
LHD Export 21470001 Onwards
LHD CKD 21570001 Onwards


CC

[wrinklearthur]

Don’t see the confusion, It is a 86" and if you look at a Land Rover service or owner’s manual it will state that the serial number range for 1955 86" start at 57660001 and 177600001. As I posted before my 86" is no177600088 and has the AL front but by your number I have seen several with steel fronts.
All s1 from 54 have the inverted T grill regardless of the number of holes.
Dennis
Hi All
I back Dennis with his information, and AFAIK that year had only the alloy front fitted.
The alloy fronts used to break down the sides, through the bolt holes for fastening the mudgards on and using the stronger steel fronts where a good replacment.
My parts book doesnt give any clue to when the steel fronts started, although I used to look for the single hole panel as a quick way to identify a 88" or 109", I am not sure now if that was entirely correct now.
Cheers Arthur

[wrinklearthur]

Models ran accross years. August was the company's summer holiday shut down, and after recommencing, out came the next years model.

So it is the other way around. It is numbered a '56, but may have been built in '55. But by the number it is '56 model.
This is what yours is Dennis. It is a '56 model year numbered vehicle, but built in '55. Land Rover generally did the CKD export vehicles first, going by the dispatch records at Gaydon, so with yours being the 88th CKD RHD Export vehicle made it would have been Sept-Oct 1955. Doesn't make it a '55 model though.

For mine, I have the dispatch records, and the Grenville motor records. For example, my 1955 Ex-SMHEA no's 5776 was dispatched out of Grenville Motors to the SMHEA on 5/5/1955.



Reference material.

Technical publication No. TP165A
Part No. 4057
Printed January 1954
Workshop Manual covering 1954
86 Models
Basic Home Vehicle 47100001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle LHD Export 47130001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle RHD Export 47160001 Onwards
CKD LHD Export 47630001 Onwards
CKD RHD Export 47660001 Onwards
107 Models
Basic Home Vehicle 47200001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle LHD Export 47230001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle RHD Export 47260001 Onwards

Supplement No. 1 to TP165A
Printed September 1954
Supplement covering 1955
86 Models
Basic Home Vehicle 57100001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle LHD Export 57130001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle RHD Export 57160001 Onwards
CKD LHD Export 57630001 Onwards
CKD RHD Export 57660001 Onwards
107 Models
Basic Home Vehicle 57200001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle LHD Export 57230001 Onwards
Basic Vehicle RHD Export 57260001 Onwards



Supplement No. 2 to TP165A
Printed June 1956
Supplement Covering 1956/57
86 models
RHD Home 17060001 Onwards
RHD Export 17660001 Onwards
RHD CKD 17760001 Onwards
LHD Export 17360001 Onwards
LHD CKD 17460001 Onwards
88 Models
RHD Home 11160001 Onwards
RHD Export 11260001 Onwards
RHD CKD 11360001 Onwards
LHD Export 11460001 Onwards
LHD CKD 11560001 Onwards
88 Models
RHD Home 11170001 Onwards
RHD Export 11270001 Onwards
RHD CKD 11370001 Onwards
LHD Export 11470001 Onwards
LHD CKD 11570001 Onwards
107 Models
RHD Home 27060001 Onwards
RHD Export 27660001 Onwards
RHD CKD 27760001 Onwards
LHD Export 27360001 Onwards
LHD CKD 27460001 Onwards
109 Models
RHD Home 21160001 Onwards
RHD Export 21260001 Onwards
RHD CKD 21360001 Onwards
LHD Export 21460001 Onwards
LHD CKD 21560001 Onwards
109 Models
RHD Home 21170001 Onwards
RHD Export 21270001 Onwards
RHD CKD 21370001 Onwards
LHD Export 21470001 Onwards
LHD CKD 21570001 Onwards


CC
Hi CC

Thanks for clearing up the year curiosity, we must remember this activity took place before, the modern technics of manufacturing of ( just in time ) and ( first in first out ) parts order's.
the last item under the pile could have had the first serial number !
according to my workshop manual ( part number 4291 ), 1956 was the year that the 88" and 109" was introduced in England, maybe they were first assembled here in Australia in 1957 and not 1958 as I use to think.

Cheers Arthur

[Col.Coleman]

Arthur,

The 88's and 109's were assembled here from the start in 1956.

I have both a 107 and 109 CKD's from the '56 model year. Numpties 88" is a '57 CKD.

Looking at the actual records of what happened gives you a better picture. Anything can happen to a vehicle over 60 odd years. Especially when they were assembled in a hodge podge fashion in the first place. Assembly serial numbers were not sequential. Add to the mix, the vehicles were dissasembled, packed in containers and sent out here to be reassembled.

CC

[dennisS1]

This is all very interesting.
Even more interesting is that my manual Part no: 4057 clearly states 1955 86' RHD C.K.D commencing 57660001 177600001 and Instruction manual dated August 1955 Part No: 4041 RHD C.K.D commencing 177600001 and workshop manual Part No:4291 RHD C.K.D commencing 57660001 177600001.
It is also interesting that these manuals do not mention a 1956 86" they only have numbers for 88" in 1956.
There may be different versions of the same book but this is what they clearly state can scan pages if interest.
Dennis
PS. We have somewhat got off the track, the serial number that the original question was about is a 86” and in my opinion the front will be original.

[wrinklearthur]

Arthur,

The 88's and 109's were assembled here from the start in 1956.

I have both a 107 and 109 CKD's from the '56 model year. Numpties 88" is a '57 CKD.

Looking at the actual records of what happened gives you a better picture. Anything can happen to a vehicle over 60 odd years. Especially when they were assembled in a hodge podge fashion in the first place. Assembly serial numbers were not sequential. Add to the mix, the vehicles were dissasembled, packed in containers and sent out here to be reassembled.

CC

Hi CC

I have been reading your post again, and jumped back into my Tardis again to find out the first year of assembly of the 88" and 109" here in Australia - is ? yep 1956 it is. :oops2:
By 1957 my workshop manual only lists 88" and 109" being produced with the exception of the 107" Station Wagon that was still in production in 1958, hence my confusion.
Does your 107 still have the 10" brake drums and does either have the backing plate modification to help keep the snow away from the shoes ?

Cheers Arthur