Alcohol fueled violence.

[Ace]

Anyone see the news last night, or Stateline?

The Police association released some pretty confronting footage from CCTV cameras in Wollongongs CBD that showed a group of males beating another male. he was knocked to the ground and when his head hit the ground he was out cold, then they continued to lay the boot into his head and body whilst he was knocked out on the ground.

The police association is calling for 1:30am lock out and 3am mandatory close for all licenced premises in NSW, this would only affect between 300-400 licenced premises state wide.

We have had an increase in alcohol fueled violence in bathurst over the summer period to date compared to last year. Im not sure what it is but some groups of guys go out every weekend, get a skin full and then look to start a fight as entertainment.

Whilst licenced premises need to be held accountable to a certain extent the justice system needs to be handing down harsher penalties to these thugs to show society that it wont be tolerated. I've lost track of the amount of people who we have charged in town in relation to alcohol fueled violence and the magistrated give them section 9 bonds and the such, which is totally **** weak.

[Ausfree]

Yep, I might be showing my age, but I can not understand why anybody would want to go out and get a skin full at 3am in the morning. In Newcastle they have trialled a a lockout system which means Pubs close at 3am and the results are a reduction by 30% in alcohol fueled violence. I cannot blame the Police for not wanting to be punching bags for grogged up idiots!!!;)

[CraigE]

While alcohol is a big part of the problem as in young people with high disposable incomes, getting absolutely smashed all the time. When I was young we were lucky to be able to have a few on a Friday / Sat night, rarely drank through the week, could not afford to and did not want to.
Attitudes have also changed and there seems to much more intense aggression and no let up. I believe this is because of the combination of alcohol/energy drinks/cheap drugs such as ice.
What happened to getting into a fight and when your opponent had had enough it was over. It seems people just dont stop anymore and are intent on really smashing some ones head in.
It is a sad world we live in.

[Ace]

I think another issue is the introduction of energy drinks. There are warnings on cans of the stuff not to drink more than 1-2 cans a day yet people go to the pub and drink several vodka and redbull or other combinations of energy drink and alcohol.

Times are changing thats for sure.

[ScottW]

Anyone see the news last night, or Stateline?

The Police association released some pretty confronting footage from CCTV cameras in Wollongongs CBD that showed a group of males beating another male. he was knocked to the ground and when his head hit the ground he was out cold, then they continued to lay the boot into his head and body whilst he was knocked out on the ground.

The police association is calling for 1:30am lock out and 3am mandatory close for all licenced premises in NSW, this would only affect between 300-400 licenced premises state wide.

We have had an increase in alcohol fueled violence in bathurst over the summer period to date compared to last year. Im not sure what it is but some groups of guys go out every weekend, get a skin full and then look to start a fight as entertainment.

Whilst licenced premises need to be held accountable to a certain extent the justice system needs to be handing down harsher penalties to these thugs to show society that it wont be tolerated. I've lost track of the amount of people who we have charged in town in relation to alcohol fueled violence and the magistrated give them section 9 bonds and the such, which is totally **** weak.

A lockout system didn't work on the Gold coast. The clubs need to be held accountable. They get them drunk, take their money then kick them to the steet for someone else to worry about.

[strangy]

Just another day in Alice Springs:mad:

[MEANZ06]

I think another issue is the introduction of energy drinks. There are warnings on cans of the stuff not to drink more than 1-2 cans a day yet people go to the pub and drink several vodka and redbull or other combinations of energy drink and alcohol.

Times are changing thats for sure.

i agree! there was a news article here recently about someone that died from alcohol piosoning from drinking alcohol mixed with energy drinks. they dont feel the effects of the alcohol as much... :(

and for the record, here in the US you can not buy alcohol at ALL from 2:00am through 6:00am. some states you cant buy alcohol on sundays at all... (needless to say i dont live in one of those states :D )

[p38arover]

Meanz, is the minimum drinking age 21 all over the US? It's 18 down here.

[Bushie]

Anyone see the news last night, or Stateline?

The Police association released some pretty confronting footage from CCTV cameras in Wollongongs CBD that showed a group of males beating another male. he was knocked to the ground and when his head hit the ground he was out cold, then they continued to lay the boot into his head and body whilst he was knocked out on the ground.



A fundamental change in the way society operates today, partly (I think) due to the general lack of consequence of their actions


The police association is calling for 1:30am lock out and 3am mandatory close for all licenced premises in NSW, this would only affect between 300-400 licenced premises state wide.

We have had an increase in alcohol fueled violence in bathurst over the summer period to date compared to last year. Im not sure what it is but some groups of guys go out every weekend, get a skin full and then look to start a fight as entertainment.
Would be interested to see how the time of the video corresponds to the proposed lockout/close times. They are still too late in my opinion.


Whilst licenced premises need to be held accountable to a certain extent the justice system needs to be handing down harsher penalties to these thugs to show society that it wont be tolerated. I've lost track of the amount of people who we have charged in town in relation to alcohol fueled violence and the magistrated give them section 9 bonds and the such, which is totally **** weak.

Again no consequence for their actions, why should they change the way they operate




Martyn

[MEANZ06]

Meanz, is the minimum drinking age 21 all over the US? It's 18 down here.

yes. 21 is the legal age to purchase or drink alcohol, although purchasing underage would be difficult, drinking underage is not.

[PAT303]

A lockout system didn't work on the Gold coast. The clubs need to be held accountable. They get them drunk, take their money then kick them to the steet for someone else to worry about.

So it's all the clubs fault?,does that mean if I drive my vehicle at twice the speed limit and crash I can sue Land Rover because they sold me the vehicle?. Pat

[Bigbjorn]

I say cut back closing time to midnight. If you can't get enough grog into yourself by midnight, you have not been trying.

I head off to many swap meets around 4.00 & 5.00 am Sunday mornings and passing through the "entertainment precinct" of Brisbane's Fortitude Valley, one sees numbers of stumbling mumbling drunks, totally ****ed or stoned. What is surprising is the numbers of young women in this condition, usually half dressed in their clubbing gear, "two Bandaids, an eye patch and a veil" as a friend describes their attire. Do they realise what danger they are putting themselves in? I am sure the young men appreciate having numbers of drunk skimpily dressed sheilas hanging around but the girls are putting themselves in danger.

[MEANZ06]

I say cut back closing time to midnight. If you can't get enough grog into yourself by midnight, you have not been trying.

I head off to many swap meets around 4.00 & 5.00 am Sunday mornings and passing through the "entertainment precinct" of Brisbane's Fortitude Valley, one sees numbers of stumbling mumbling drunks, totally ****ed or stoned. What is surprising is the numbers of young women in this condition, usually half dressed in their clubbing gear, "two Bandaids, an eye patch and a veil" as a friend describes their attire. Do they realise what danger they are putting themselves in? I am sure the young men appreciate having numbers of drunk skimpily dressed sheilas hanging around but the girls are putting themselves in danger.

got any pics?... :angel: :wasntme:

[CraigE]

Meanz, is the minimum drinking age 21 all over the US? It's 18 down here.

Not the answer, while some are 18 most are mid to late 20s that seem to be causing all the trouble.

[Ean Austral]

Whilst every adult needs to take responsibility for their actions, I beleive the blame falls mainly on the justice system.

Its **** weak that I was drunk can be used as an excuse time after time and the court slaps these people's wrist..I dont blame the cops for getting sick of getting used as punching bags, and having to face the same people the next weekend.

The force up here is loosing more cops every week because of the reason of catching the same drunks/crimes/drongo's every week only for the court to let them walk free..

Any reduction in trading hours can only be a good thing, whether its the answer I doubt, but it cant hurt.

To say the clubs ETC are at fault is plain rubbish, adults are supposed to be responsible for their actions, whether its drinking, driving, voting whatever..

just hope some action gets taken sooner rather than later.

My 2c worth

Cheers Ean

[Marshall]

I agree, punish the dick heads.

Example, Holland: legal drinking age is 16, you can go to the supermarket and buy a 500ml can of beer for 50 cents and stilll go to a "coffee shop" and buy a joint, pubs and clubs are just like here, open most of the night. and yet there is bugger all alcohol fueled violence.

I conclude from this, age nor cost of drinks has anything to do with it, it has to do with society, us.

[Vern]

ITs not the alcohol or venues fault, its the dick heads, and not just the ones that can't handle their booze, the sober ones that start the **** as well.
I don't hate alcohol, drugs, drunks or drug addicts, or any races, i just hate dick heads:mad:

[abaddonxi]

Bring back 6pm closing and the rush to get as many schooners into yourself between the end of work and closing time.

[Vern]

Bring back 6pm closing and the rush to get as many schooners into yourself between the end of work and closing time.
6pm, you must be ollllllllllld:p

[Ausfree]

So it's all the clubs fault?,does that mean if I drive my vehicle at twice the speed limit and crash I can sue Land Rover because they sold me the vehicle?. Pat
Don't understand the correlation????:confused:

[jonesfam]

Maybe I'm old as well. I can remember when the drinking age was lowered from 21 to 18, about the same time, in QLD anyway, that the voting age was lowered. The reasoning to some degree was that if you are old enough to be sent to war & be shot at you are probably old enough to vote for those that will send you off to be shot at & to have a beer after they missed you.

I live where we don't have a pub, a bar, a club or a night club within 90k's but still have plenty of alcohol trouble. We have very, very strict alcohol laws (2 ctn of light per vehicle, nothing else) yet we still have the problem.
I must admit it is better than before the alcohol laws but not by a long way.

The answer, education right through life from a very young age, a good example set by those few who are looked up to & NOT trying to find a quick fix. For ingrained social problems there is no such thing as a quick fix.

Governments are always looking for the fast answer that will get the votes next election, sorry, some things are just going to take time to fix.

Jonesfam

[ATH]

Our dopey **** weak pollies love to grandstand and announce yet more maximum heavy penalties for every offence you can think of including drunk fuelled violence, but when it gets to the courts the useless magistrates accept the lame excuses (tough upbringing/I woz drunk/I'm ever so sorry) and hand out the usual slap on the wrist.
What the useless pollies have to do is make minimum sentences much heavier but then I suspect the same magistrates will find yet more excuses to let them walk free with no conviction or penalty of any kind.
They tried this in WA with a "3 strikes and you're in the slammer" thing which never worked because the magistrates found every excuse not to sentence the crims.
Certainly close the pubs/night clubs earlier which figure in this sort of behaviour regularly, but I think changing the whole attitude of the yobs involved is impossible.
Who knows what the answer is?
Alan.

[abaddonxi]

Wake in Fright (1971) clip 1 on ASO - Australia's audio and visual heritage online (http://aso.gov.au/titles/features/wake-in-fright/clip1/#)

Australia Today ? Lucky Strike at Larkinville, WA and other segments (1938) clip 3 on ASO - Australia's audio and visual heritage online (http://aso.gov.au/titles/newsreels/australia-today-lucky-strike/clip3/)

:D:D

[TerryO]

I worked for many years as a door man in pubs and clubs in Sydney in the mid eighties through to the early ninties and in that time I saw plenty of alcohol fueled violence.

In all seriousness the later the venue is open the more the chance of fights and the more violent they are. Back then the clubs in Sydney CBD would ring each other when there was a out of control bucks party so you knew what was coming your way. Then all the doorman would be sent up to the entrance to make sure they didn't get in and wreck the joint. The trick was to stop them getting in the door and then 90% of your potential problems didn't happen.

The worst groups of drunks that would cause havoc and wreck a place the fastest were off duty coppa's. I learned quickly to just refuse them entry at the door no matter what they threatened because once you let twenty drunk cops in the place it would usually turn into a huge brawl over 50% of the time.

How did I know who were cops? Apart from their attitude and the way they looked even in civvies ...they couldn't help themselves everytime they would always flash their badges and demand to get in for free.

If they want to slow down the problems they should shut the pubs earlier as they have in Newcastle. As for people needing to act responsible, if everyone was always 100% responsible you wouldn't need laws or police. People do stupid things when they are pizzed and it takes someone who is completely sober to see how stupid, close the pubs earlier and reduce the amount of time they have to get legless.

cheers,
Terry

[Ean Austral]

It could also have something to do with the stuff other than Alcohol running thru the veins of alot of people then mixed with alcohol to make a nice cocktail..

Our eldest daughter is a nurse and when she was in A & E said that some of the people coming in on a friday and Saturday night were just that out of it on a cocktail of booze and drugs and were that parenoid it was scary.


Cheers Ean

[Didge]

In my opinion it is the individual who is responsible for their actions, not the clubs. Kicking in the head should be a mandatory attempted murder charge and hopefully conviction. The problem stems from a whole host of poor influences starting at home with parents who themselves set a poor example in the way they drink and may introduce grog to their kids at an age below the legal limit. It's compounded by the promotion of grog and associating it with success and popularity. The kids have been desensitized to violence through movies, video games and TV shows such as the cage fighting and when full of the booze think it's all acceptable behaviour. I'm not making excuses, I love a beer and a wine and the cage fighting (watching it only as it does get a tad brutal at times) but I think we need to address the attitude of society towards how they usei recreational legal drugs, the education of our young folk and how we reprimand those who misbehave.

[ScottW]

In my opinion it is the individual who is responsible for their actions, not the clubs.

Unfortunately, this country has spent so much time nannying the population and wrapping everything in cotton wool via the introduction of petty legislation and laws to protect the lowest common denominator, that any sense of responsibility and consequence for your actions has long gone, along with common sense. The government has been playing babysitter for so long, now everyone just expects it.

Current practice in some night clubs on the coast is if someone has a skinfull and is causing a stir, they will call them over to the bar and give them something strong, like a shot of barcardi 151. That pushes them over the top and makes it easy to eject to the street, where they are the problem of the public and the police. I wouldn't call that a responsible serving of alcohol.

If the government had a blitz, fined the clubs a decent amount and stripped away a few RSA's they may be able to cut the problem at the source, rather than their bandaid measure of the 'chill-out zone with a few waters.

I must note, I'm referring to surfers here specifically, which is a violence hotspot. Last night I walked past Melbas at 10:30 and there were a few ambulances parked outside with the stretcher and the paramedic just inside the front doing their thing.


Pat, I think your example is more matched to a bottlo, where you buy a carton and leave to do your own thing. The car equivalent of a night club would be going to a track day, and having an exit off the main straight where you shoot from the track to residential streets at 200 kph.

[big guy]

O own and run a club here in Adelaide and have done sofor 8 years now.
Work closely with Liq Lic and local and federal cops.

I have had meetings with them and other licensee's and although many are in for a cash grab and run, Ilook at it more long term.

The attitude of new generation kids has changed, they often get pretty well fueled up at home or on way to town because its cheaper, they often go to places where happy hour means cheap crap drinks and get even more loaded.
They do pep up with red bull etc which co-incidently we are the only licensed premise that does not sell them here in SA because we believe they contribute to the problem.

Now I have said in many meetings that happy hour should be banished as that is not responsible service of alcohol but sadly falls on deaf ears as its a big money spinner and places use it to lure patrons.

The fights start when a select few think they can fight and want to prove their man hood.
Many kids/youth usually from lower socio economic back grounds come to town just to fight also. They get bragging rights too.

I am not 100% sure as to what will reduce these incidents but education, better employment prospects for youth in general and perhaps a reduction in operating hours for clubs/bars is certainly an option. I do believe it could just spill out into the streets than though and more vadalism could ignite.

In short, its not always the fault of the bars and clubs that effect the behaviour and also not always alcohol either, its drugs, attitude and the stupid aussie attitude of having to get tanked to have a good time.
Are they really having a good time, I don't think so.

In many places overseas there are superclubs where few fights break out and alcohol is treated with respect and being a ****ed jobbo is definately not cool.

that is what we have to also abolish, the bragging rights that getting ****ed is cool. Its not and as soon as they understand that, things will change.

Oh, what a long road ahead we have.:o

[FISHGUTS]

I agree with the comments so far but the one thing that stands out the most is the total lack of respect these kids have for anything, the law, the community, property in general, authority of any kind be it coppers or security they don't even seem to have any respect for their own property.
How many times have you been to the shopping centre and the security guard is arguing with 8,9 & 10 year olds about not riding through the centre and they are throwing untold amounts of language and abuse at them, this is where this type of violence starts, it nurtures a hatred which is let out when they old enough to get a skin full be it via the pub or club system or even underage drinking in the burbs. If it is not the CBD or town centre its in a residential park and along the streets. One of the most prominant questions asked in this regard is do you know where your kids are at this time of the night?

My 2c worth :(

Cheers,

Peter.

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

6pm, you must be ollllllllllld:p

Probably has his din dins between 4:30 & 5:00pm too!!!! :Rolling:


Sent from my backyard TeePee using smoke signals.

[Tank]

As stated above, no respect, not just the law but for anything or anybody, these bastards know they will get off lightly so they have no fear or respect for property, lives or the law.
Drunken violence offences should be taken away from local magistrates and Mandatory Minimum senteces should be introduced. Drunk and disorderly, 3months, drunk and causing property damage, 12 months, drunk and causing gevious bodily harm, 5 years, drunk and causing death and or disability, Life, drunk and assaulting police 12 months or more if injuries. No Parole or remissions.
Now if the local bunch of yobs who plan on going out with intentions of committing mayhem would know that a mandatory jail sentence will result, it may make them think twice and at least those that don't think or care will be removed from society.
These bastards need educating ( by going to goal, not in a classroom) that if you **** up you will go to goal, maybe they will stay at home and kill one another, one can only wish, Regards Frank.

[frantic]

Anybody like to know how close the police where when this violence was occuring? Have a look on google at where the police HQ is in wollongong and then move about 50m south to just behind the stage/theatre on crown st. Yes thats 50 METRES not a mile or 500 metres, it's exactly 3 small shops from the corner of the police station to the crown street mall. If the cops had their windows open they may have been able to hear the fight!
The problem is the mall is great for shopping and going for a walk during business hours but when all the shops are shut you rarely see a cop walking through there(no car acess). So for a responsible drinker to get a train/bus home or to go to the other night spots most would walk up the mall and there have always been noobs hanging around there.

[big guy]

As stated above, no respect, not just the law but for anything or anybody, these bastards know they will get off lightly so they have no fear or respect for property, lives or the law.
Drunken violence offences should be taken away from local magistrates and Mandatory Minimum senteces should be introduced. Drunk and disorderly, 3months, drunk and causing property damage, 12 months, drunk and causing gevious bodily harm, 5 years, drunk and causing death and or disability, Life, drunk and assaulting police 12 months or more if injuries. No Parole or remissions.
Now if the local bunch of yobs who plan on going out with intentions of committing mayhem would know that a mandatory jail sentence will result, it may make them think twice and at least those that don't think or care will be removed from society.
These bastards need educating ( by going to goal, not in a classroom) that if you **** up you will go to goal, maybe they will stay at home and kill one another, one can only wish, Regards Frank.

Every kid has a parent or relative.
Jails would be full which they already are anyhow but I do agree 100%, there needs to be much harsher penalties.

Some research needs to be done and introduced. Perhaps see what works in other countries, adopt and make them fit here and apply zero tolerance.

When I 1st startedin this industry, the guards we had would take the odd dick head out the back.
Things have certainly changed and the new breed of guard would not even consider that.
They are there now as a 1st point of reference for safety for any patron that may need them or feel threatened.
My last little incident 2 years New years eve where sone young punk swung at me with a glass(weapon) and he was somewhat worse off after a couple of moves.
He came back for more but his girl friend and friends stopped him.
I had to write 3 reports, one for myself to keep a log, an incident report with a copy of the harddrive copied to a cd and a 14 page written one to the cops just in case he wanted a go at me or my bar.

Also my hand and knee were swollen for a week.

I always say, No one wins a fight.:eek:

[ramblingboy42]

I agree with a lot of what others here point the blame at.....but have you considered the television programs? I believe a simple program like neighbours incites so much distrust and inititiary( check out what this means if you dont know)violence and hatred. What about the "games" ........so much blood, extreme violence, theft and thuggery....and what about the fastest growing sport worldwide? UFC.....ultimate fighting chamionship.....spawning a mega business of "training " facilities all over the world.....

[Chenz]

I agree with most of what has been said in regard to:

Lack of respect for authority figures such as the cops or peoples property or person

Current licensing laws and opening and closing hours

Mixing drinks, red bulls and other trendy chemical amusements

Too much testosterone and wanting to "proove" onself - especially in a mob or group environment

Mummy and daddy thinking that little Johnny can do no wrong and so let them get away with anything including defending "their right" to abuse teachers, cops, old diggers who don't put up with their s#%t on the bus, train, street etc and that happen to tell them to behave themselves

There is no one answer but unless this starts at home with ma and da showing and telling Little Johnny that this is WRONG, and the authorities have the power to take swift and decisive action on those that pertertrate this type of behaviour without the fear that some moron with a mobile phone camera can take action against them then it will never change.

Without sounding like an old foggie (I'm 51) I remember getting my fair share of kicks in the arse and being taken home to face a not so happy dad when we were out and acting the goat after a few too many cans of lunatic soup.

I was in Woolongong last year on an end of season Golden Oldies Rugby tour with a bus load of blokes my age and we had more than a few at the pub in question before walking back to the Ibis hotel at around 1am. The little lovelies were out in force and wanting to have a go at us oldies. We just laughed at them and walked on. I could have seen it getting ugly if one of us however wanted to spark up though. Not a cop in sight even though they were wrecking the joint throwing bins and street furniture about and trying to smash anything that wasn't bolted down.

I fear for us over the next few years if it keeps going like this.

Chenz

[BBC]

I agree with a lot of what others here point the blame at.....but have you considered the television programs? I believe a simple program like neighbours incites so much distrust and inititiary( check out what this means if you dont know)violence and hatred. What about the "games" ........so much blood, extreme violence, theft and thuggery....and what about the fastest growing sport worldwide? UFC.....ultimate fighting chamionship.....spawning a mega business of "training " facilities all over the world.....

I am in agreement with what you have mentioned here. I have travelled a bit and noted where much of this alcohol violence exists:

Australia;
South Africa (in the white community); and
the UK.

I have travelled in Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Holland, Timor, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Ghana, Uganda, Kenya, and Burundi (I won't count Afghanistan and Somalia) and in each of these countries there is a different culture to do with their drinking of alcohol. Particularly in the latino countries, they drink, socialize, and dance.

Yes, there is crime in all these other countries too but, not the same alcohol fuelled violence that we are finding in Australia. I do think they are acts of ego...the 'me, me' attitude that has come from our evolving society. A society where the rights and expectation of the individual has subordinated the rights and expectation of the collective (society).

[big guy]

yep.
On a recent trip to Bali, it is very noticeable where the aussies are.
That is very sad as theyare always fueled by cheap booze, abusive and so noisy.
Thats just in Bali, overseas they are the same, its geralizing to some degree Yes but there is sadly too much truth.:(

[BBC]

yep.
On a recent trip to Bali, it is very noticeable where the aussies are.
That is very sad as theyare always fueled by cheap booze, abusive and so noisy.
Thats just in Bali, overseas they are the same, its geralizing to some degree Yes but there is sadly too much truth.:(

Thanks for that, helps reinforce the reason I have never been to Bali.

[lambrover]

How about making our jails like Indonesia so they are a place to be worried about going too and some actual real punishment, for the first couple of years you will have a full jail but when word gets out how crap it is thugs will think about there actions.

Remember the poor young cop in WA he got head butted from behind by the son of a man that tried to hit him and they got let off. I can't see the justice in that and it was a jury decision so that say society thinks that behavior is acceptable.

[TerryO]

I believe the main reason why many young people have no respect for authority figures today is because the main authority figures that they grew up with, namely their parents, never taught them respect or how to behave properly like happened with previous generations.

Can't blame the kids that their parents wanted to be their friends and mates rather then be their gaurdians and figures of authority. Parents are meant to teach children respect and teach them that if they do bad things there will be serious consequences. I have seen very few parents I know act like actual parents for a very long time, not all but many and most of the ones I know who brought up thier children without teaching them the basics have no control what so ever of their children as they have grown older. So that being the case why should any of us be that surprised that when these kids and young adults get to an age where alcohol is allowed that they do stupid and often dangerous things.

Many of these young adults hardly ever heard the words ...No ...Stop ...or do as your told or your will be punished from their parents when they were young. Or worse still they heard the words but there never were actions to back up the words with punishment if the bad behaviour was repeated so why should they listen to anyone in authority now?

The old saying about reaping what you sow springs to mind.

cheers,
Terry

[abaddonxi]

Binge drinking, violence and extreme lack of inhibition are more Australian than Vegemite.

February 1788, the First Fleet have been moored in the harbour for two weeks while the male convicts build a tent town for them all to live in. The female convicts are kept on the ships during this time, but close enough to shore to whistle at. The male and female convicts came on separate ships.

The tent town has been completed and in the afternoon they start ferrying the women over to the settlement and break out a couple of barrels of rum to celebrate.

At about the time everyone is suitably ****ed, a southerly buster hits with an epic torrential storm, including a strike in the middle of camp that killed five sheep and a pig.

The scene, lit by lightning flashes, of writhing bodies and mud, was described by the ship's surgeon - 'it is beyond my abilities to give a just description of the scene of debauchery and riot that ensued during the night'

The members of the First Fleet, convicts, marines and free, came out of one of the biggest binges in history. Gin drinking in London in the 18th century took the city like an invading army. Contemporary descriptions make Saturday night in Kings Cross look like a schoolyard, scores of people passed out drunk in the middle of the street at midday.


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There is a theory that claims immigrants cement their culture on arrival in a new country. They bring their children up strictly to the rules that they had as children and when later generations return to their original country they are seen as hopelessly old-fashioned - their culture has stood still while everyone else has moved on.

A similar thing happened with the First Fleet - examples of this are the culture of drinking and violence, our difficult relationship with authority and corruption,and the slang which we still use today.

[BBC]

Binge drinking, violence and extreme lack of inhibition are more Australian than Vegemite.

February 1788, the First Fleet have been moored in the harbour for two weeks while the male convicts build a tent town for them all to live in. The female convicts are kept on the ships during this time, but close enough to shore to whistle at. The male and female convicts came on separate ships.

The tent town has been completed and in the afternoon they start ferrying the women over to the settlement and break out a couple of barrels of rum to celebrate.

At about the time everyone is suitably ****ed, a southerly buster hits with an epic torrential storm, including a strike in the middle of camp that killed five sheep and a pig.

The scene, lit by lightning flashes, of writhing bodies and mud, was described by the ship's surgeon - 'it is beyond my abilities to give a just description of the scene of debauchery and riot that ensued during the night'

The members of the First Fleet, convicts, marines and free, came out of one of the biggest binges in history. Gin drinking in London in the 18th century took the city like an invading army. Contemporary descriptions make Saturday night in Kings Cross look like a schoolyard, scores of people passed out drunk in the middle of the street at midday.


Gin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gin)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/496.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/William_Hogarth_-_Gin_Lane.jpg/517px-William_Hogarth_-_Gin_Lane.jpg)


There is a theory that claims immigrants cement their culture on arrival in a new country. They bring their children up strictly to the rules that they had as children and when later generations return to their original country they are seen as hopelessly old-fashioned - their culture has stood still while everyone else has moved on.

A similar thing happened with the First Fleet - examples of this are the culture of drinking and violence, our difficult relationship with authority and corruption,and the slang which we still use today.



Well put together mate. Indeed alcohol and it's daily consumption was a means of survival in cities of the past because, the water they had for drinking often killed you.

Then, as the europeans (in particular, the Portuguese) learned to sail into the wind, trade became more direct and, as coffee and tea (part of the spice trade) found their way into the population centres of Europe, city life changed.

Tea and coffee were granted health-giving powers, you could drink them and think clearly and, you didn't cop the diseases of the poor, who could only draw on the polluted water of the cities.

[TerryO]

Well put together mate. Indeed alcohol and it's daily consumption was a means of survival in cities of the past because, the water they had for drinking often killed you.

Then, as the europeans (in particular, the Portuguese) learned to sail into the wind, trade became more direct and, as coffee and tea (part of the spice trade) found their way into the population centres of Europe, city life changed.

Tea and coffee were granted health-giving powers, you could drink them and think clearly and, you didn't cop the diseases of the poor, who could only draw on the polluted water of the cities.


I knew beer was drunk by the masses as a replacement for water as a way around catching water born illnesses. Beer was good because of fermentation which killed any disease, but why would tea or coffee stop you getting crook?

A quick boiling of water which is what you do to make tea or coffee does not kill most nasty bugs.

cheers,
Terry

[BBC]

I knew beer was drunk by the masses as a replacement for water as a way around catching water born illnesses. Beer was good because of fermentation which killed any disease, but why would tea or coffee stop you getting crook?

A quick boiling of water which is what you do to make tea or coffee does not kill most nasty bugs.

cheers,
Terry

Terry,

Don't think of boiling an electric jug.

Water for making tea/coffee would have been boiled and then kept hot over the char/coal used for heating it.

[TerryO]

That makes sense BBC.

cheers,
Terry

[Pedro_The_Swift]

OMG!!
dont mention boiling water and coffee in the same sentence!!!
The Bean Boys will respond with 50 posts all saying the same thing!!
:Rolling:

[RobHay]

Y'all should be in bed by Midnight anyway....when I was young and single I always tried to be in bed by midnight.

[TerryO]

OMG!!
dont mention boiling water and coffee in the same sentence!!!
The Bean Boys will respond with 50 posts all saying the same thing!!
:Rolling:



Actually I was going to comment about not boiling water for a good cup of tea but decided against it.

Glad I did now...


cheers,
Terry