Common rail diesel problems

[bob10]

Just gone thru an old 4wd action mag. , came across an article I had not read regarding common rail diesels [ c.r.d.] their top four 4wd's with c.r.d.issues ; 1. Toyota hilux d4d [1kd-ftv]
2. Nissan Patrol 3l [zd-30]
3.Nissan Pathfinder 2.5 l [yd-25]
4.Toyota Landcruiser v8 [1vd-ftv]

They gave an example of a 3l. gu iv Patrol with catastrophic failure of the injector pp..Warranty repair was refused, as water in the fuel, causing corrosion, and poor fuel quality , causing scoring in the injector pp.was given as the reason for failure. It took an 190 km. tow in the simpson desert, to get the vehicle to civilisation, and it cost in the vicinity of $10,000 of the owners cash to repair. Now this is not meant to be a dig at any make of vehicle, but they said the common rail engine was developed partly to comply with Europeon emissin standards. The new Defender is on the drawing board, will it face the same problems? Bob

[one_iota]

The Puma engined Defender and indeed all of the other current diesel engined Land Rovers are common rail...it's the only way that a diesel engine can comply with the Euro strandards I guess.

One or two folks here have had big problems with water in fuel.

I noticed some exhorbitantly priced water filtration funnels at TJM the other day...probably good insurance for filling up from remote supplies.

[rick130]

[snip]
Now this is not meant to be a dig at any make of vehicle, but they said the common rail engine was developed partly to comply with Europeon emissin standards. The new Defender is on the drawing board, will it face the same problems? Bob

Umm, the current Defender is a common rail Euro engine and the previous TD5 engine was a unit injector engine and could have the same issues if fuel quality and filtration wasn't up to scratch.

In fact when the TD5 was first released Land Rover Australia had quite a number of injector failures due to dirty Australian fuel, and at the time an injector was near enough to $2000 LRA's cost !

Common rail has taken over from unit injectors as it's a far cheaper system overall and achieves the same end.

[edit] Mahn beat me !

[bob10]

Umm, the current Defender is a common rail Euro engine and the previous TD5 engine was a unit injector engine and could have the same issues if fuel quality and filtration wasn't up to scratch.

In fact when the TD5 was first released Land Rover Australia had quite a number of injector failures due to dirty Australian fuel, and at the time an injector was near enough to $2000 LRA's cost !

Common rail has taken over from unit injectors as it's a far cheaper system overall and achieves the same end.

[edit] Mahn beat me !

Thank you, now what is the best way to insure ourselves from a similar incident? [btw. since I bought my d2, I have had to endure no amount of ribbing from my Japanese vehicle owning friends, some good natured, a rare few downright obnoxious, and it is with the utmost calm I say to the rare few.... KARMA! grasshoppers :angel:

[PAT303]

My Td6 got bad fuel last time I drove back to NSW but a filter change had it going again and it hasn't missed a beat since.The D4D has had a long history of injector trouble but like all things tojo you never hear it from owners. Pat

[PAT303]

Thank you, now what is the best way to insure ourselves from a similar incident? [btw. since I bought my d2, I have had to endure no amount of ribbing from my Japanese vehicle owning friends, some good natured, a rare few downright obnoxious, and it is with the utmost calm I say to the rare few.... KARMA! grasshoppers :angel:

I'm getting twin saddle tanks on my Puma with a seperate pump and water trap/filter so I can filter the fuel twice.Bad fuel is all too common. Pat

[slug_burner]

filters and water traps. A centrifugal filter for the fuel would be cool!

[101RRS]

When my RRS was getting its roadworthy, the tester was selling a system - basically water trap and extra fine filter for common rail diesels. He suggested I buy and fit as he had seen a few common rails with issues due to water.

I declined but am certainly interested if the evidence indicates Aust fuel is an issue. It is a risk management thing.

Garry

[Blknight.aus]

simple enough.

in about 80% of the servos tested in australia the diesel failed to meet even the euro 3 spec for diesel failing on both suspended water and suspended particulate matter.

most servos were also over the acceptable limit for settled water in the underground tanks.


and naturally all the military diesel fuel that Ive had tested doesn't meet euro 3 standards (td5) hows the gwagen going to cope (euro 5 standard)

[rick130]

Garry, I think it's more a case of the storage tanks at some of the servo's in rural areas rather than Oz fuel in general.

With new storage regulations coming in, at least in NSW it'll reduce the (potential) problems further.

[Bigbjorn]

Thank you, now what is the best way to insure ourselves from a similar incident? [btw. since I bought my d2, I have had to endure no amount of ribbing from my Japanese vehicle owning friends, some good natured, a rare few downright obnoxious, and it is with the utmost calm I say to the rare few.... KARMA! grasshoppers :angel:

Fit a Racor filter/separator. These are the top shelf line of fuel filters. They have a centrifugal separator section like a Donaldson air cleaner. Usually available from truck, tractor, and earthmoving supplies shops like Qld. Diesel Spares.

[luke68]

Have to agree with Brian.

My D1 300tdi has had a Racor fitted under bonnet in line just before the LR filter when the Car was only 4 weeks old from new. Have had no problems with Water anywhere in Aus Including Darwin and the tropics. Racor recommend to change the filter every 2yrs, but when I pulled my old one it still looked like new. Changed it anyway for piece of mind.

Warning: They aren't the cheapest but are the best. I got mine from work about 12 years ago and cost about $150.:)

PS: The Landrover filter fuel filter under the bonnet is a Bosch filter and can be purchased at any truck/tractor/bus supplier for about $15-$20.
Bosch Part No: 1 457 434 159

[bob10]

THanks for the advice, gents, sounds like the racor is the way to go. Any advice on where to fit it on a d2? Cheers, Bob

[Disco44]

The Puma engined Defender and indeed all of the other current diesel engined Land Rovers are common rail...it's the only way that a diesel engine can comply with the Euro strandards I guess.

One or two folks here have had big problems with water in fuel.

I noticed some exhorbitantly priced water filtration funnels at TJM the other day...probably good insurance for filling up from remote supplies.

When it comes to TJM Ned Kelly was a gentleman.

[Disco44]

Check out your sediment filter after a trip out west.You will be surprised at how much crap can get in there.
Upon returning from trip I had my disco in for a service,I asked that the sediment filter be checked.We all know that can be a pain in the ass and my mechanic asked whether I really needed it done I said yes.Upon picking up the vehicle,I was told that there was nearly and inch of crud in there.So the moral of this story is " fuels ain't fuels..Sol"

[Dougal]

I've never seen a commonrail injector up close, but I'm told they have a tiny pilot hole which uses the high fuel pressure to help open the valves and this is what clogs up.

Can anyone confirm or deny?

[newhue]

I have been putting Fuel Doctor in my common rail from new. Tested it at home and definitely separates water from diesel, which naturally happens anyway. But I'm hoping it catches and suspended bits of water and rubbish whist filling up or driving.

I have not learned how do dump the water filter yet, but they did so on my last service and had no comments to add. Can only hope it works and used as directed a bottle goes a long way for $35.

[Dougal]

I have been putting Fuel Doctor in my common rail from new. Tested it at home and definitely separates water from diesel, which naturally happens anyway. But I'm hoping it catches and suspended bits of water and rubbish whist filling up or driving.

I have not learned how do dump the water filter yet, but they did so on my last service and had no comments to add. Can only hope it works and used as directed a bottle goes a long way for $35.

So you're seperating it out the water but keeping it in the system?:(

[one_iota]

When it comes to TJM Ned Kelly was a gentleman.

Yes no doubt.

I'm planning a trip to Lake Eyre in April and I will spend $60 on one of these:

Pro Quip Mr Funnel Fuel Filter Funnels (http://www.proquip.com.au/ProductPages/Funnels/MrFunnel.html)

Much much cheaper than the price of repairing the fuel injection system.

I don't know how efficient they are at removing water...there is no data available for this product but there are good reports on the various toyonissabishi forums.

[newhue]

So you're seperating it out the water but keeping it in the system?:(

No...I don't think so, just the water trap had nothing in it. The vehicle is only 11 000klm old, so I guess I have not seen a tank of bad fuel as yet.