Defender 130 Rear cross member towing question

[juddy]

I have been looking at a replacement fuel tank, to increase range, but it seems i cant use the OME land rover tow bar, my question is can i utilise the rear cross member for mounting a tow bar mount, and also can the rear cross member be used to mount a NATO hitch directly, allowing for clearence...

[rainman]

Hi juddy. I have a Long Ranger 135 (or 140?) litre tank on my 130 with your run-of-the-mill Hayman Reece tow bar. I don't have any pics from the back but:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/1430.jpg

[86mud]

I believe my tow bar is genuine Landrover and I had to shave off a bit so I could fit the long range tank. I had to cut a small section out of the steel reinforcing bars that goes back to the chassis rail.

I'll try and get a picture tonight.

As for mounting the Nato Hitch direct to the rear crossmember, firstly, do the mounting holes line up with the 4 on the cross member and secondly, do you still have the HCPU tub? Would it interfere with hitching/unhitching with the Nato Hitch tucked up under the tray?

Cheers
Andrew

[juddy]

I believe my tow bar is genuine Landrover and I had to shave off a bit so I could fit the long range tank. I had to cut a small section out of the steel reinforcing bars that goes back to the chassis rail.

I'll try and get a picture tonight.

As for mounting the Nato Hitch direct to the rear crossmember, firstly, do the mounting holes line up with the 4 on the cross member and secondly, do you still have the HCPU tub? Would it interfere with hitching/unhitching with the Nato Hitch tucked up under the tray?

Cheers
Andrew

Good point, it is for a HCPU, i am unsure if it would interfere with hitching etc... I know the British Army now use the 130 HCPU, so i take it they use a NATO hook...

[juddy]

heres one with a nato

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/remlr-general/111562-project-hebe.html

[86mud]

From those pictures, it looks as though the hitch is sitting away from the crossmember on a fabricated mount.

[VladTepes]

You'd want it sitting further put that the cross member otherwise when you wnet uphill the a-frame may foul on the rear of the tub or tray.

I jut got an adaptor plate from a trailer place which slotted into the haymn reece receiver and to which the nato hitch bolted straight up.

[PAT303]

I know for sure that 110's need the bar and tank to match. Pat

[rick130]

IIRC you need the rear crossmember reinforced if using an OE type (English) tow bar. (it's a kit from Land Rover)

I don't think this isn't necessary if using a Hayman Reece type as it ties into the longitudinal chassis rails, not just off the rear crossmember as the OE one does.

FWIW somewhere around 1990 and prior you didn't need to 'fix' anything, it was all heavy duty enough already........

[rick130]

I stand corrected, looks like things have changed a little.

From a post on LR4x4.


The proper LR towing drop plate kit bolts straight to the crossmember with just the angle underneath, see here:

http://www.a2stainle...-Kit_AKKN7.aspx (http://www.a2stainless.co.uk/Land-Rover-Defender-Dixon-Bate-Towbar-Bolt-Kit_AKKN7.aspx)

http://www.duckworth...__Carrying.html (http://www.duckworthparts.co.uk/acatalog/accessoried_def1_Towing___Carrying.html)

There is no reinforcing kit to go behind the crossmember on newer chassis as the plastic fuel tank sits right close to the chassis so you can't get at it without taking the crossmember out and the holes are not tubed to the inside either so you would have to do a proper job on it and make up a proper backing plate for the front side of the crossmember to spread the load, and tube the holes through the chassis, even then it will still be tinfoil.

The plate just between the chassis and hitch won't add a huge amount but would not be a bad idea - but use bolts in all six holes not just the bottom two.

By trial and error over several years I find that a relatively gentle snatch is OK on the new style tow points (say 3000rpm 1st low on a 10 metre nylon rope) but would not use any more or you will rearrange the crossmember quite quickly. On the old style chassis with a proper towing point you could take off flat out in 3rd low so there is a big difference in strength.

[juddy]

I think its still a little difficult to determine if the longranger tank will or will not fit with the OME tow bar, in the pictures i have posted below you can see a ranger tank on a 130 HCPU, with a tow bar of some sort, and then compare with the bar i have fitted. I am told this is a UK only tow bar and was one of 5 that were wrongly fitted at the factory, maybe some one can confirm this???

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/1396.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/1398.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/1399.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/1400.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/1401.jpg

[rick130]

Yep, that's a genuine UK or Dixon-Bate (I think) tow bar.

Pretty rare on an Oz spec 'fender.

[rick130]

Forgot to mention that if you fit the big tank generally you need to remove the anti-roll bar too.

FWIW I have the standard tank at the back and a 65-70l LRA sill tank under the drivers side.
The filler is just behind the rear door, it goes through the cabin behind the back seat and through the floor into the tank with a transfer pump to push the fuel across to the main tank.

[juddy]

Remove the anti roll bar!!! is this a bad thing???

[rick130]

Well, that depends on whether you think you need one or not :D


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/1396.jpg

if you look at this shot the rear ARB has been removed, it can't be mounted with these aftermarket tanks.

[juddy]

Well, that depends on whether you think you need one or not :D


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/1396.jpg

if you look at this shot the rear ARB has been removed, it can't be mounted with these aftermarket tanks.

Well, i would think it may be a bad thing taking it off??? as its meant to be there for a reason...

[mike_k]

Juddy, in answer to your second question, the Nato hitch does bolt directly onto the cross member, and requires a stiffening plate on the front of the cross member to beef up the mounting a bit.

As far as the position of the hook goes, the MOD uses an extentsion bracket, part no. NRC 7758 - described as an 'extentsion towing bracket', to space the hitch back a bit.

Hard to tell but that is what you see on the project hebe link, and also fitted to the HCPU Desert Patrol Vehicles as used by the British SAS. Have a look around the net, there are a few good photos of the rear of the DPV that show this quite well.

I currently have my pintle hook attached directly to the 130 HCPU cross member to tow my No. 5 trailer, and although not ideal, the trailer drawbar would need to be at a fairly extreme angle before it hit the body.

I do intend to see if I can get hold of this bracket, though, but I've been a bit busy on other stuff!

Cheers,

Mike.

[Drover]

Hey Juddy,

I am not sure if you already have a long Ranger Tank or not, but if you haven’t, you can get 140Lt (20lt more than a LongRanger tank) from Long Range Automotives in Melbourne, that will fit with the standard LR tow bar.

Search "Long Range tank prices". There is picture of mine on page 2.


Cheers

[juddy]

Hey Juddy,

I am not sure if you already have a long Ranger Tank or not, but if you haven’t, you can get 140Lt (20lt more than a LongRanger tank) from Long Range Automotives in Melbourne, that will fit with the standard LR tow bar.

Search "Long Range tank prices". There is picture of mine on page 2.


Cheers

Thanks for that, very helpful, i can get a Long ranger tank at trade, so thats why i was looking at the particular brand, but i need to check with regards to

the comment on there site saying

Sway Bar Spaces Down Approximately 75mm, Some Tow Bars/Rear Bars Need Temporary Removal. Would 75mm cause any issue's???

however i will give the melbourne ones a call too.

cheers

J;)

[86mud]

Juddy

My tank is a Long Ranger 120 litre model. I was convinced that my tow bar was genuine landrover....until I am told otherwise.

You will see from the pictures that I had to trim some steel from the tow bar section that runs forward to the Chassis.



As for sway bars.....their over rated! I do have Dobinsons Springs (+2"), poly air bags and twin revalved Bilsteins on each corner of the rear...

Cheers
Andrew

[VladTepes]

Forgot to mention that if you fit the big tank generally you need to remove the anti-roll bar too.

FWIW I have the standard tank at the back and a 65-70l LRA sill tank under the drivers side.
The filler is just behind the rear door, it goes through the cabin behind the back seat and through the floor into the tank with a transfer pump to push the fuel across to the main tank.

I've got that - didn't know it was an LRA tank but I suppose it must be.

Problem for me is that the sill tank seems to makle fitment of mulgo sliders impossible... !

[Drover]

[ Sway Bar Spaces Down Approximately 75mm, Some Tow Bars/Rear Bars Need Temporary Removal. Would 75mm cause any issue's???[/QUOTE]


When mine was fitted they also fitted extensions to the sway bar mounts, that sat between recesses in the new tank. Sway bar is retained and handling is no different.

I cant take a photo until next week as the D'fer is at the dealers.

Cheers

[rick130]

Juddy

My tank is a Long Ranger 120 litre model. I was convinced that my tow bar was genuine landrover....until I am told otherwise.

You will see from the pictures that I had to trim some steel from the tow bar section that runs forward to the Chassis.



As for sway bars.....their over rated! I do have Dobinsons Springs (+2"), poly air bags and twin revalved Bilsteins on each corner of the rear...

Cheers
Andrew

Yours is an Australian made and fitted Land Rover tow bar identical to the one on my '98 130, the UK made/fitted bars are as Juddy posted above.

http://usera.imagecave.com/tdi-rick/towbar005-copy.jpg