Sheep for meat and chooks for eggs. Advice?

[D110V8D]

Ok I would be fairly certain we have a few members on here that have sheep and chooks. Maybe some of you have large farms, maybe just a few acres. I'm after some advice on a couple things sheep and chook related.

I just bought a few acres outside of Yarra Junction in Victoria and I'm moving up there full time shortly. I'm pretty keen to get into running a few sheep for some meat and a few chooks for eggs, along with the usual vegie patch etc to both cut down on my food cost's as well as teach the kids a few things about the realities of life.:D

Now I've done some initial research on sheep and most people seem to think that Dorper sheep are the ones to go for on a small "hobby" type farm due to the little amount of maintenance required and they also tend to have twins or triplets more so than other sheep breeds. Apparently they fatten quickly too.

Anyone have any real life experience with these sheep?
My plan is to start off with a few ewe's and a ram and basically just see how many lambs I get and just go from there. I don't know a lot about animal husbandry but I will continue to read up and take whatever advice I can get.

As for the chooks.....how many different breeds are there? It seems to me there are literally thousands! Which are the best layers and which ones are best with kids? Is it just as simple as building a chook shed, adding some hay and a spot to lay and away you go? I want the kids to be really involved in this part of it so placid or easily handled chooks would be the best but we also want a good yield of eggs too. Again if anyone has any real life experience I'm listening. :)

[crash]

Do not have experience with Dorper sheep, but what I have heard are low maintenence, and are preferred meat sheep. They still have to be drenched, and have to watch out for fly strike like any other sheep.
Isa Brown chooks are the best layers (1 egg / chook / day on average) for about 2 or three years then their productivity drops off. They are not brooders so if you want to hatch your own will need an icubator (plus a rooster of course). There are a few other varieties that make better brooders, but prioductivity in the egg laying area is lower. There is an english breed of chooks which the name escapes me (white with black specks) which is a larger bird and is good eating.
If you hatch some chicks out of an icubator yourself, any chick can be imprinted and will make great pets for the kids. Bantum chickens - especially the roosters can get a bit of attitude. They are one of my favorite breeds to look at.
Make sure your chook pen has some shade and an undercover area for them, plenty of fresh water. Chooks can get worms and fleas/ lice as well. Keep the nesting area clean, dry and change the straw requlary you should not have too much problem with the fleas or lice - there are special powders for this aswell. Use good quality chicken mesh to keep the foxes out and if you let them out during the day, make sure they get locked up at night.
Our chooks get the food scraps as well as a good quality laying mix. I occasionaly add a grain mix in as well for a bit of variety.
Best of luck

[Veryan]

I had a couple of Sussex and a Leghorn Hens and a couple of Sussex X Leghorns hens. They are big birds, and also good layers. I had 4 and would get at least eggs a 4 a day if not more on occasions :eek:. So that was more than enough for just me. I had a large pen which I fenced in and made a layers coup. There big birds, so if you get really hungry, they would make a decent dinner :wasntme:

I had them from when they were 6 weeks old. It took maybe 2-3 months until they grew up to start laying eggs. Fed the on growers mash, and then layers mash, with corn and grain and what ever scraps I had, plus a run about in the late afternoon in the garden. Eggs were small to begin with, but then they came larger to what I would consider average super market size, except tastier.

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I'd let them out in the yard during the day if I was about or at weekends.

Occasionally they would go broody, so I would have to lock that one out the coup for a few days.

Few picture of what I had and my set up.

PS the white one with the black ring of feathers round the neck is the pure bred Sussex, it was a monster. The rest are Sussex/Leghorn X. They lived in the tree when they were little, it was great fun to watch them try and get up into it when they had grown up a little!

[Chucaro]

If you are looking to get some money from the sheeps I would go for colored and black ships. It is a nich market for the colored wool by spinners and weavers.
Have a look HERE (http://blackandcolouredsheep.com.au/) for info abouth them.
Regarding chooks my favorite are the Rhode Island Red.

[isuzurover]

Consider indian runner ducks instead of chooks. You get ~1 egg per duck per day, and they are the size of extra, extra large chook eggs. Taste is very similar and can use them for anything you can use chook eggs for.

Plus:
They taste better than chooks (IMO) if you want to eat some
They are excelent for the control of snails/slaters/grubs, but don't dig big holes like chooks do.
They live longer, lay longer and are less prone to illness and parasites.
They are also less likely to go clucky and stop laying.

Plus they are a lot cuter :D (even when not dressed in stupid costumes...)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/11/1037.jpg

I would also go for goats instead of sheep personally...

[Beckford]

The SWMBO has 3 chooks. We live on a small 10 acre block. She does all the day to day work and I enjoy the eggs. My advice is;

1. Chickens need to be fed lots of different things, including a good grain mix + shell grit. Some people think they can live on kitchen scraps alone and then wonder why they aren't laying.

2. You don't need a Rooster. We average 2 eggs a day. 1 chook is a very good layer and 1 chook is hopeless.

3. Lock them up at night in a fox proof mesh enclosure.

(My mum used to have a few thousand free range on the farm as a kid.)

Know nothing about sheep, except what I learnt at school in year 7 ag.

[Bundalene]

As for your vegetables




A good veggie garden takes a bit of planning to get the most out of it.

Some years ago I bought a book called No Dig Garden by Ester Dean, in which you grow veggies in different layers without using soil - the best thing we ever did as we rarely have to weed.



We used a combination of sleeper halfback beds and cut up rusty water tank for the beds.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/197/april2a016.jpg/)






https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/mar15001.jpg/)






https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/mar07007.jpg/)



Erich

[CraigE]

Isa Brown chooks, we have 7 on a normal residential block of around 800m2. We supply half the neighbourhood with eggs. They are great layers. Think about running a couple of geese with them on acerage, but you need to get them at the same time (chicks). The geese will protect the chooks and take on foxes.

[CraigE]

As for your vegetables




A good veggie garden takes a bit of planning to get the most out of it.

Some years ago I bought a book called No Dig Garden by Ester Dean, in which you grow veggies in different layers without using soil - the best thing we ever did as we rarely have to weed.



We used a combination of sleeper halfback beds and cut up rusty water tank for the beds.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/197/april2a016.jpg/)






https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/mar15001.jpg/)



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/mar07007.jpg/)



Erich

Erich,
great crops, my address is...............;)

[rick130]

Around these parts most everyone uses Isa Browns for layers, Australorps are supposed to be very good too.

Isa Browns are a commercial hybrid bird so are pretty much spent after two to three years, they put everything into egg production.

Whatever you get, buy it as a pullet from a breeder as there are some dodgy mature birds around (older and not laying)


Ben, one of the older stockman here (and he'd kill me for calling him 'older' :D) used to do shows with his ducks and dogs, horse and sulky, including exhibitions at Sydney Royal.

[EDG60]

Dorpers would be a good start, also Suffolk. Merino, while easier to find are a PITA for the hobbyist.
Pass on the ducks ... they crap every where, and it ain't pleasant.
Geese make good watch dogs, but they make lots of noise, and are fond of sounding off at a full moon, preferably about 3 AM.
Bantams are good value ... got lots of attitude, and eggs have the flavour to make up for small size. 2 eggs fit in standard sized egg ring, (so double yolkers for breakfast every day)
We have 4 leghorns and 4 Isa Browns ... and one other Unidentified black/blue thing. ATM we're picking up 3 doz + per week ... and would be more if some-one would stop being so fussy about the shell grit ... ... durn soft shell eggs that splat out through the nest boxes ...
Oh yeah ... they need shell grit!
If the area has a fox or dog problem, get an Alpaca. They love to hang around with sheep, and are very protective. A single Alpaca is more than capable of taking out 2 or 3 dogs.

[Bigbjorn]

Don't know about keeping sheep. I grew up arouind Winton where there were around 6,000,000 sheep in the vicinity and available for the asking. To top that, my grandfather was a noted drover and drovers always had some livestock in with the horse plant.

My grandmother kept fowl of many kinds. She favoured Barnevelder chooks for both eggs and meat. I hope I spelt that name correctly. Also had big black buggers whose breed I forget. Rouen ducks for meat and Indian Runners for eggs. Indian Runners were never killed as they were pets and followed her around. Real comedians, Indian Runners, and terrific pest controllers. Tireless in their patrols of the gardens looking for snails, bugs, etc. She managed to breed pheasants out in Winton where all the experts said it was impossible. We never got to eat one as they were prized possessions.

Unless you want your own fertile eggs, do not have a rooster. They are a bloody pain, vicious, aggressive, and noisy. Neghbours hate roosters.

[Xtreme]

My son has a few acres and on advice from his FIL, who runs about 1100 sheep, took on half a dozen goats instead of sheep - less maintenance and easier to look after - provided you have good fences. They did get out once but came back of their own accord as he supplements their natural feeding and they seem to enjoy that.
He intends using them for milk and meat (goat is the most eaten meat worldwide) and maybe even a few side products.

Maybe worth considering.

[rick130]

[snip]
goats instead of sheep - less maintenance and easier to look after - provided you have good fences.
[snip]


That's the biggest issue with goats, fences have to be extremely good.

Even electric fences won't keep them in, they are smart enough to time the pulse and push through between pulses, unless of course you have a 'goat' fence energiser with random pulsing ;)

[Vern]

boer goats for meat, oh and good fencing as said.

[D110V8D]

As for your vegetables




A good veggie garden takes a bit of planning to get the most out of it.

Some years ago I bought a book called No Dig Garden by Ester Dean, in which you grow veggies in different layers without using soil - the best thing we ever did as we rarely have to weed.



We used a combination of sleeper halfback beds and cut up rusty water tank for the beds.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/854/april2a016.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/197/april2a016.jpg/)






http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6081/mar15001.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/mar15001.jpg/)






http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3508/mar07007.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/mar07007.jpg/)



Erich

Thanks Erich. I also have that book. No dig garden is the only way to go!

Looks like it's working well for you too!:)

[D110V8D]

Well now I'm back to looking at goats.:D

A mate of mine also suggested goats. What sort of fences are we talking here? Property is well fenced but it's only the standard type strainer post, star pickets in between, 3 - 4 horizontal wire stock type fencing. No good?

[EDG60]

Well now I'm back to looking at goats.

... standard type strainer post, star pickets in between, 3 - 4 horizontal wire stock type fencing. :D in this case you do not have a fence... you have a very long gateway ;)

need to inter-space with live wires, and a vari pulse zapper as previously mentioned.

Also, regardless of what critters you run, suggest you split the block up into at least four paddocks/yards, and move the stock around so that the feed can regrow.

If you let them have free run of the place, they'll eat all the best stuff first, and then go onto second and third choice. The good gear will never have a chance to re-shoot, so they'll be forever on lesser feed.
When they are allowed on a limited section, they'll go through ... get the good stuff and then onto the next choices as before, but then ya move them after a couple weeks. They start again picking all the good gear, and the best grasses in the previous area can regrow.

[isuzurover]

... Indian Runners for eggs. Indian Runners were never killed as they were pets and followed her around. Real comedians, Indian Runners, and terrific pest controllers. Tireless in their patrols of the gardens looking for snails, bugs, etc. ....

Very true. All snails disappeared from our property for ever about a week after we got the runners. We only find slaters and slugs underneath logs or other places the ducks can't get to. Friends give us snails they collect in their gardens, and the ducks gobble them down.

We have also fed them adult mice that I found under a small shed and drowned. They gobbled them down whole! Then asked for more. I haven't seen them catch mice themselves though - however they do catch flies.

This was the first 4 we bought. They have since multiplied. We also crossed in a small amount of pekin for a better carcass weight and meat yield without affecting egg production noticeably.
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p29/isuzurover/poultry/Chooks015.jpg

2 other advantages I forgot is that drakes are silent (unlike roosters). With ducks the females are the loud ones!

the other advantage is that unlike goats and chooks they cannot jump fences or fly. Runners are almost flightless, as their wings are tiny. 45 cm high chickenwire fences are more than enough to keep them out of gardens that we don't want them in (goats on the other hand...)



Erich - Great veggie garden!

[rick130]

:D in this case you do not have a fence... you have a very long gateway ;)

[snip]


:lol2: Brilliant :D

[rick130]

Very true. All snails disappeared from our property for ever about a week after we got the runners. We only find slaters and slugs underneath logs or other places the ducks can't get to. Friends give us snails they collect in their gardens, and the ducks gobble them down.

We have also fed them adult mice that I found under a small shed and drowned. They gobbled them down whole! Then asked for more. I haven't seen them catch mice themselves though - however they do catch flies.

[snip]



Our chooks do the same Ben, they are feral !

They'll attack anything that moves, and if it doesn't move it's fair game anyway.
Snails, slugs, crickets, whatever, even frogs don't stand a chance :eek:

The worst part with having poultry in the bush is old sly fox.
We've lost too many to the buggers, and all in the daytime as the girls are locked up of a night.

[isuzurover]

The worst part with having poultry in the bush is old sly fox.
We've lost too many to the buggers, and all in the daytime as the girls are locked up of a night.

We have had problems with foxes here too (~7 km from the CBD) believe it of not.

However since a new neighbour with a swedish foxhound (hamilton hound - probably the rarest breed in AU) that is allowed to roam both properties (as are the ducks and geese) our problems have ceased.

We have also recently acquired a maremma x border collie. Between the two dogs a fox wouldn't stand a chance.

[rick130]

Our fox problems dropped significantly when one of the neighbours kids (about 1 km away) started trapping rabbits.

Within two weeks they'd trapped nine foxes hanging around the warren instead :o

[LandyAndy]

Lots of good advice posted.
SHEEP.Dorpers for sure!!!,they do give birth to 2 or 3 lambs,and as they are born so strong(they look like bulls compared to normal lambs) they grow quick and take less out of the mother.Because of this you get an extra drop over a 2 year period without detriment to the mother sheep.NO SHEARING/CRUTCHING!!!!!!.Eating wise they are 11/10.My mate has a small Dorper flock and I regularly buy sheep off him,I dont buy lamb from the shops,it doesnt compare in quality;);););)
CHOOKS.Lite Susex are the best allrounder for meat/eggs.They cross particularly well with a Rohde Island Red.For egg production alone,Bantams/BantamX are the best.Despite the small eggs,they are very productive.
DUCKS.Make a duck system like Bens(Isuzurover) the water from the pond is liquid gold for the vegies.Pekin ducks are the best all-rounder for eggs/meat.I talked my mate with the Dorpers into getting Pekins in instead of normal ducks,he cant belive the growth rates he is getting compared to other ducks he has kept in the past.
VEGIES.My passion,I love growing vegies.I intend converting to a raised bed system like Ireks,my back injury causes me strife weeding.I would go much deeper than those pics!!!! Oneday I want to try a fish/hydroponics setup.Just had a feed of tank raised trout on the weekend.
Enjoy,just makesure you set EVERY production activity up to be as easy/low maintence as possible,you dont want the pleasure to become a millstone around your neck making it hard to enjoy holidays,time away etc.
ALL OF THE ABOVE TAKES PLENTY OF TIME TO LOOK AFTER!!!!!!
Andrew

[Jock The Rock]

Would recommend goats over sheep as well

Lot smarter, the kids are great to play with. Goats are great when it comes to taming

The added benefit of milk as well, although goats milk is an aquired taste

And they'll eat anything and no issue at all with wool

Yes Boers for meat but they are a ***** to keep in. We used to have a herd of Saanens out at the old mans place (milk goat), they aren't quite as solid in the body as a Boer but still taste alright :twisted: and a lot more docile, relaxed and will hang about the yard

I would recomend running maybe two wethers and two does. When it comes to bucks you would be better off borrowing or hiring one. Bucks stink when the does come in season. And it will also save the problem of keeping the buck away from his daughters when it comes that time of year again

Keep the wethers with the flock for meat and they also take some form of leadership role in the flock which works well

With the fences you want at least 5 or 6 strand with 3 electric. You would be better off with a ringlock fence with a hot wire on the top. Less maintenance but a bit more expensive up front

The only trouble with goats is you may find you become quite attached, as some of them do gain character. So it gets a bit hard to put them in the pot, so to speak