Holden v6 into Defender 110 ute

[Bazzle218]

Has anyone ever looked at converting a defender 110 , to a v6 commodore motor, vr vt. Or any information on doing so. I love my 30tdi defender ute but also the vt sedan. If i fitted the commodore motor i recon i would have the best of both worlds. Advice , abuse, opinions welcome. Letem rip:twisted:

[rovercare]

Wouldn't bother, defender is to heavy, ls1

[MR LR]

if its a badge thing suit yourself, but i personally would prefer a straight 6 so i'd go a ford motor (nothin to do with badge) or a big diesel, maybe a chipped td5

[milld]

if its a badge thing suit yourself, but i personally would prefer a straight 6 so i'd go a ford motor (nothin to do with badge) or a big diesel, maybe a chipped td5


I was always told that the holden v6 is not suitable for 4x4 because of the torque curve of the motor. (Not much in the bottom end) ;) Not sure what cam options are available though.

[QLDMIKE]

If you really wanted to use the 3.8, a supercharged one would be the best option as it would give a bit more torque.

The ford six would be the best engine, but you are gonna use a fair bit of fuel. Ford Territories use a decent amount of fuel and they are no Defender!

Put a VNT onto the TDI and play around with it.

[400HPONGAS]

Why not , these old fuddy duddies simply dont know whats out there , the 4.2 stroker V6 puts out better than 230KW (yes KW not HP!)and has 400Nm torque , (miles better than the crappy 4.6 RV8 )The supercharged version of the ecotec ,about the same .Its only a matter of careful cam selection to bring the torque curve down into a more useable range (only thing is, is there any suitable adapters to do the conversion with ?)

[Bigbjorn]

Buick had a 4.5 litre turbocharged version in the early 90's which was a real road rocket.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The Rover V8 started off in a Buick, did either Rover or GM/Buick change the bolt pattern for the bellhousing between the Rover and current GM V6s?

[mick88]

try, "Marks 4WD Adaptors" as they do a lot of engine conversions and
they may have what you want.

Cheers Mick.

[billy bob]

I put one in a hilux years ago. Because the motor lacks torque the fuel economy was just woeful. Up around 24l/100k from memory. Go a V8 or diesel.

[bee utey]

The Rover V8 started off in a Buick, did either Rover or GM/Buick change the bolt pattern for the bellhousing between the Rover and current GM V6s?

The original Buick V6 and the Holden V6 version have different bell housings to the Rover V8, much smaller. I had a bloke here once with a buick 2.8 V6 in a z-drive boat who installed a P76 instead. Much fun!.

[vnx205]

I love my 30tdi defender ute but also the vt sedan. If i fitted the commodore motor i recon i would have the best of both worlds. Advice , abuse, opinions welcome. Letem rip:twisted:

You could also have "the best of both worlds" if you put the 300tdi engine in the VT sedan. :D

However, I think that would still be just as much a mismatch. :)

You did ask for opinions. :)

[Bigbjorn]

The following publications would get you au fait with what can be done with the Buick V6.

"Buick Power Source" Buick Motor Division, General Motors Corp. - Heavy Duty Parts List; Technical Data; Modification Details; Blueprinting.

"Buick Power Source" Buick Motor Division, General Motors Corp. - Electronic Engine Management System.

"The Buick Stage II V-6 Racing Engine." - Dave Emanuel, Performance Publications.

"Jim Ruggles' Buick V6 Performance Guide." - Jim Ruggles, Petersen Publishing Company.

Buick show torque and horsepower graphs up to 800 hp @ 8400 rpm for a turbocharged methanol burning Indianapolis engine, and a naturally aspirated gasoline burning drag race engine of 460 hp @ 7500 rpm.

[goingbush]

I was almost going to put a Holden V6 into my BJ40, its a pretty common Hilux conversion.

Re petrol motors, I put a Ford 302w ex F100 & c6 Auto / lockup converter with Marks adaptor & G60 Xfer case into my 90 , F&R Maxidrive difflocks and thought it was the bees knees. Had a 4.4 P76 in front of a RR Box in a LWB.

Since then I had 3 Toyota Diesels 1HDT 4.2 liter turbo, 1HZ 4.2 liter NA, & Toyota B 3 L 4cyl and now my first Landy Diesel, the Td5 (chipped) .
Honestly the Td5 in the 110 has better useful power & WAAAAY better fuel economy than any of them, The only thing the 302 was better at was smoking up the rear tyres. Personally I doubt I'd go back to a petrol motor, or a V8 .

Thats what put me off buying a FJ Cruiser, they only come in Petrol V6 & The big cruisers only come in V8 now, which is ultimately got me back into a LandRover

A holden V6 110 Might be OK for a Day Tripper or Toolangi Truck but I would not want to go long distance touring with it.

[rovercare]

Why not , these old fuddy duddies simply dont know whats out there , the 4.2 stroker V6 puts out better than 230KW (yes KW not HP!)and has 400Nm torque , (miles better than the crappy 4.6 RV8 )The supercharged version of the ecotec ,about the same .Its only a matter of careful cam selection to bring the torque curve down into a more useable range (only thing is, is there any suitable adapters to do the conversion with ?)

I'm 28 and putting a supercharged ls1 into a p38, I've done plenty of engine conversion, a commodore v6 will not be worth the expense in a 2250+kg car, simple, I've put them in luxs, 2and 4 wheel drive, which they suit, but basically all the expenses are the same, except initial outlay for the engine, which is a small part

Building a stroked commodore v6? You money would be better spent at the pokies:p

[justinc]

My personal opinion is that they are a noisy, harsh and very unrefined engine that works well in a lightweight 2wd car, but kind of useless in a heavy 4x4.

Diesel is the way, especially a turbocharged one, infact Tdi is just fine:)

JC

[400HPONGAS]

Well Justinc if the alloytec V6 is a harsh,noisy,unrefined engine ,then what does that make every Rover V8 ever made ? Ill tell you, a gutless,juice chewing pile of unreliable junk. If you were to look up a power/torque curves for say a ALLOYTEC 3.6 190 V6 and any Variant of the rover 3.9 you will find that at no point does the Rover engine come anywhere near the the holden engine in both TORQUE or Horsepower.
I Suppose its the silent shaft and Roller cam ,the 2 less cylinders and the smaller .3 liter capacity really didnt count for much !!!Lets not even go near the latest SIDI incarnation and compare that with a Rover V8.
Why is it that all these wives tales say its allright to have a Rover V8 that makes bugger all useful torque/Horsepower but you cant replace it with something (V6 alloytec) that delivers more torque , is twice as economical,across its entire Rev range .
Rovercares probably right ,dollar for dollar perhaps a ALCOA (LS1)special would be better
Rovercare ,you ever heard of C.O.M.E. racing , look them up in Melbourne and have a yarn about his 4.2 strokers ,say hello to Sam for me !!!

[superquag]

Well Justinc if the alloytec V6 is a harsh,noisy,unrefined engine ,then what does that make every Rover V8 ever made ? Ill tell you, a gutless,juice chewing pile of unreliable junk.........!


... That's a bit, um... harsh. :Rolling::Rolling:


Sounds like agreement with my uninformed opinion that Land Rover got it wrong (with the petrol v8) and stubbornly refused to power the RRC et al with a more 'Fit for Purpose' powerplant... (as well as other bits and pieces) :twisted:

[rovercare]

Rovercare ,you ever heard of C.O.M.E. racing , look them up in Melbourne and have a yarn about his 4.2 strokers ,say hello to Sam for me !!!

Chevy offroad, no, the cost of buying a rolling kit to stroke a v6 plus machining makes it even more ridiculous, then you have a bitsa and again, what do I care about such miniscul cubes

They are crude, very crude efi, as crude as a 3.9 with 14cux

Again, have you put any in anything a ton heavier than a commodore?

It's not a viable or smart conversion by any stretch of the imagination

[Vern]

i used to average 13.6-13.9l/100 in my VZ one tonner work car (loaded), pretty crap economy, my inlaws average 13.9-15l/100 in the P38. Yeah commodore v6 in a 2.5 tonne car, i'd be saying to economy would be much worse:(

[Hoges]

Well Justinc if the alloytec V6 is a harsh,noisy,unrefined engine ,then what does that make every Rover V8 ever made ?.................... etc etc etc etc etc blah blah blah etc

400HPONGAS:
If you care to read the first post in this thread, this discussion arose not in regard to the alloytech3.6L V6 but rather 3.8 V6 which powered the "VR/VT" Commodores.
Justinc is quite correct in his assessment of the 3.8L V6... its evident shortcomings finally forcing GM to develop the alloytech series!
As "Q" might say : Please pay attention in future 400HPONGAS!

[justinc]

Well Justinc if the alloytec V6 is a harsh,noisy,unrefined engine ,then what does that make every Rover V8 ever made ? Ill tell you, a gutless,juice chewing pile of unreliable junk. If you were to look up a power/torque curves for say a ALLOYTEC 3.6 190 V6 and any Variant of the rover 3.9 you will find that at no point does the Rover engine come anywhere near the the holden engine in both TORQUE or Horsepower.
I Suppose its the silent shaft and Roller cam ,the 2 less cylinders and the smaller .3 liter capacity really didnt count for much !!!Lets not even go near the latest SIDI incarnation and compare that with a Rover V8.
Why is it that all these wives tales say its allright to have a Rover V8 that makes bugger all useful torque/Horsepower but you cant replace it with something (V6 alloytec) that delivers more torque , is twice as economical,across its entire Rev range .
Rovercares probably right ,dollar for dollar perhaps a ALCOA (LS1)special would be better
Rovercare ,you ever heard of C.O.M.E. racing , look them up in Melbourne and have a yarn about his 4.2 strokers ,say hello to Sam for me !!!

I still say they are noisy, unrefined, sound like crap and are useless as a defender powerplant. (not alloytec, i'm talking about early VN to VR etc) Say what you want but thats my opinion.

Rover V8's aren't all that noisy and harsh where did THAT come from???:confused:

Just my 1.5c if you don't like it then, well, tough!:p

:D:D

JC

[Bazzle218]

Well folks it seems that once again i have opened a can of worms:p Unfortunatly not as many replys as my Browns gas post.:twisted: Thanks for the input and please remember. that opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. I dont think personal attacks are in the spirit of the forum.:nazilock:
so lets all have a laugh and chill out.;)

[justinc]

Well folks it seems that once again i have opened a can of worms:p Unfortunatly not as many replys as my Browns gas post.:twisted: Thanks for the input and please remember. that opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. I dont think personal attacks are in the spirit of the forum.:nazilock:
so lets all have a laugh and chill out.;)

No worries Bazzle, thats why I use heaps of these; ':D:D:D', and these; ':p:p' in my posts as it shows I am NOT ':mad:'

:D (See, theres another...)

JC

[cal415]

I think a v6 holden motor would work well if it went into a SWB series or something smaller and lighter, i have looked at this option with my mate and his S3, as for economy i had a few earlier series 1 VN's and found they were the best of the lot compared to the later ones i had, better on fuel, more power, much better torque, these were before holden toned them down a little for the series 2 through to VR before the ecotec, i have had atleast one of them all. I used to get 7-800km out of a tank in a fully loaded VN wagon on the freeway, compare that to the 5-600km from the same ammount of juice in my VS series 2 sedan on the exact same run.

funny thing about the rover v8 and holden v6 is there history together back in to early days all evolving from the same motor, and i have been told a holden v6 timing cover actually fits a rover v8, i am yet to try but i was looking at this option for my comp truck running a delco computer on a rover v8.

[jakeslouw]

The only V6 for a Defender should be a TDV6, regardless of manufacturer.

Ditto a V8.

[Bigbjorn]

Well, the engine must have had something going for it. It was from the same engine family as the Buick/Rover V8. The V6 was first made in 1961 and continued until 2008. 25 million of them were produced in almost countless capacities and ratings. The 1989 turbocharged option was advertised at 276 hp but was known to be narly 300. It is said to be only 35 kgs heavier in cast iron than the aluminum V8. The late Series supercharged versions were real good goers. I don't have torque and horsepower graphs and it would be an interesting exercise to compare these, the V6 with the Rover V8.

Incidentally, the engine made Ward's yearly "Ten Best Engines" list several times.

Have a look a Buick V6 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Davehoos]

my 2 cents worth.
I also like to convert to buick/holden V6.the holden black 6 is also similar technoligy.the engine makes diesel like tourque at 1800RPM.
or can scream to 6500.

reasons not to.
cost of convertion and getting the engine up to a spec to suit the rover and the possible fuel cost to run it.
the GM V8 will have lots more power but a lots more cost.
dont know if it will fit as it was not made to be easy to convert but the falcon 4.0 is cheeper to service for the horse power.

reasons to convert.
similar engineering to the rover engine-from the same family with similar life time improvements.makes better noises than diesel.

opinion based on experience.
many versions of the buick V6 family-a P76 3.3 was built in australia using alloy block.I wanted a 3.0 version of the BOP block or the first non balance shaft even fire FWD block.many years ago i was going to fit an early import turbo with a TH350 to a P76 or HZ.

I had the experience of refreshing VN-VR engine at 1 per day under new car warranty due to poor build quality not design.oil leaks,coolant issues,cam shaf/balance shaft bearing failure and valve spring and guide issuesIf you had some of the issues you could bet the rest are not far away.
as for fuel consumption the ECU is brilliant but is not designed for economy but our stupid emision testinga rechip turns these into a usable engine.

when testing due to customer complaints I found a consumption range from 7Km/L to 13Km/L tank averages.so to say all these are heavy on fuel is incorrect.to run LPG you have to spend to get the engine to suit as it wasnt originally designed like the ford to run on gas..

like the holden red/black 6 it will suit any aplication if the right tuning and trim is used,there are untold versions of the engine with different sumps and timing case and accesories drive including the fan drien off the belt.

Ive driven comodore steched ambulances and loaded these would be much heavier than a 110 and they are V6 not V8-but the issue is when i load the 110
and then tow a trailer the petrol bill will be atronomical---or similar to my 3.5 auto disco.

the nissan patrol 3.0 is a good match in the SWB [not sold in australia] and the EFI helps with fuel economy in the LWB compared to the original carby.i often wondered how a RB20E/RB20ET would go in the patrol--in my skyline the RB20E has to be driven near the red line and gets 10% better fuel economy than the RB30E if not pushed.
with the engine running at 6400 RPM the car can be driven in first gear.and the gearting will give you some usable tourque that the engine doesnt have.

If only a good indian owned car company made a 4X4 freindly 4 liter 6 diesel.

[Bigbjorn]

I never owned a car with one but have hired several V6 Commodores with the 3800 engine. I found them to be incredibly economical for a big car, 30+ mpg in highway use. My 4.0 litre Falcon ute does around 23-24 mpg unladen and down to 18-19 laden.

I found that at peak production GM were making 7,000 of these engines per day.

[uninformed]

Brian, Im sure you would not be blinded by shear numbers.....and of all things american consumerism. Whilst the US auto industry has produced some fine things, alot of their stuff is price point crap! most of their cars dont compare on a world scale with chassis and engineering. Price maybe, but I bet any country could keep its car prices down if they were paying $8/hr and being heavily subsidised by the government. My mate had a near new vs back in the day,all in all it did its job and was fine, but that engine was a rough thursty piece.

[Sprint]

My local mechanic has a 45 series landcruiser ute with a VN-VP era buick V6 in it, supercharger possibly off a toyota its not overly thirsty, and it goes pretty hard

as for Ecotec 6's being thirsty, my VU ute with a decent 'roo bar hanging off the front still manages 8.75l/100km with the aircon on at 110+......

[frantic]

Why not get a tdv6 out of a wrecked territory, D3/4, pug etc??? There are conversion kits from simetek and bells in the u.k;) Or to be really different a td5(3.2L) a ford ranger:o it's built in the u.k in the same plant as the 2.2 in the defender/free/evoque but is in no way derived from the td5 storm that LR designed,,,there goes a flying pig!:D

[Sprint]

thats the last time i say anything nice about an ECO 6...... bloody thing just announced tot he world that its munched a head gasket

[BigJon]

Sprint, I have never come across an Ecotec that has done a headgasket. What are the symptoms? I have been told that at anything over 150 000km it isn't unusual for the intake manifold gaskets to leak, letting water into the intake ports. Much easier to replace the intake manifold gaskets than the head gaskets!

[justinc]

Sprint, I have never come across an Ecotec that has done a headgasket. What are the symptoms? I have been told that at anything over 150 000km it isn't unusual for the intake manifold gaskets to leak, letting water into the intake ports. Much easier to replace the intake manifold gaskets than the head gaskets!

I concurr, i have done several intake manifold coolant leaks on these, similar symptoms to a head leak.

JC

[Sprint]

pulled up in the drive last night, heard a bubbling noise, checked the coolant reservoir and could see a LOT of bubbles.... pulled the overflow hose out and its pumping a LOT of hot air/steam...... fired it up, slowly added 2 litres of water and next thing you know, its pumping a good gusher of coolant and air...... thats why i'm pretty certain its a head gasket gone between a cylinder and a water jacket....... meanwhile i'm praying thats the grand total of the damage, but i've got a bad feeling it isnt

so far got the top end stripped down and the intake about to come off..... discovered a couple of the intake manifold bolts were finger tight.....

[Sprint]

well...... no obvious damage to the head gaskets (i know, you all told me so), all the combustion chambers look similar, and honestly, i'm at a loss to what was pressurising the system

bores all look mint, can still see the cross-hatching, i've run a straight edge across both the block and heads..... all looks good.....

I'm worried :-(

[justinc]

These run a 135Kpa cooling system, it doesn't take much to get them to boil their heads off and spray coolant everywhere if they develop a sudden leak to atmosphere, thats why the inlet gaskets leaking can cause such a problem. Despite what i think of these engines they are pretty much unkillable, I'd stick it back together, new thermostat and rad (Repco special last week was a new radiator for $200:o) and keep on keeping on:D

JC

[Sprint]

whats got me is it doesnt strike me as a boiling type problem..... with the cap off, when i filled it up, it went from full and being quite happy to suddenly gushing coolant and gas or steam 6-8" above the filler neck.....

wreckers engine is gonna cost me $1200......

kinda tempted to bolt it back together and see what happens, but i think its going to be a waste of time and money

[BigJon]

Sprint, they will do that if you don't bleed them properly. They have a bleed point at the thermostat and you need to have a radiator neck extension above that height.

[mike 90 RR]

You got to bleed them ... If air is trapped in the head, then as soon as the thermo opens, cold water hits the head and it steams up ... Hence the gushing of coolant. .... Take out the thermostat if you want to prove it's a bleeding problem or head gasket / motor issue

Must be a Rover motor I guess ...


Back to the original Q .... IMHO .... Would not waste my time or bucks on a V6 ....
Either:
1: Get a diesel
2: Follow rovercare's lead and slip in a LS1 .....
3: Follow FIXR7's lead and slip in a 351 .... http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/132680-351w-efi-into-classic-rangie.html
4: Just be happy with the original gear

[big guy]

I had a V6 3.8L conversion in a 82 2 door which was professionally done at a 4x4 centre in SA.
It was wowful, so many electrics and relays to wire and protect, often overheated and the tranny which was bolted up to it, not sure what it was always hunted for gears! It used at least 20L/100 average and forget about offroad, there is very little torque down low and on freeway was revving quite high at 3200rpm from memory.
These cars need diesels or V8's with low down torque.
I was very pleased to have finally sold it after just 6 months of ownership.

[Sprint]

according to the workshop manual, the head bolts need to be sealed with loctite 242 "sealant"..... always thought that 242 was a threadlocker

wierder still that what holden lists as "Loctite 242" turns up in a big tube full of an apricot coloured, viscous liquid labelled "safety compound".....

*sigh* and not a tin of head stud sealer in sight

[chrisandebreg]

i've done the v6 into a bundera, great package over the 4 cyl thirsty if put at +105 totally different off road for a defender i'd go the supercharged at least with a look at changing the gearing for on road as standard the revs at highway speed would cause a big thirst. when completed the bundy will be geared for 1800rpm at 110 with 33's. parts for holden are cheap and complete engines can be found for around $500 for the v6 and $1500 for a supercharged. would do it again you will just need a good electrician or understanding of auto wiring. marks adaptors can modify the standard computer to remove body module but now days i'd rather go for a programmable aftermarket unit.