Question for a Kaymar bumper owner?;)

[996TURBO]

Hi,

Looks like Ron is the only Kaymar bumper owner here IIRC.

Do you know if the rear crossmember is a Kaymar thing or is it the same as land rover OEM?

I bought a Kaymar bumper but i'd like that the guy that is 600km from me removes everything specific.

Thanks

Florent

[p38arover]

I'm not sure what you need to know, Flo.

Can I phone you? (I have VoIP so the cost is minimal). If so, PM me with your no. and time to call.

In the meantime, I have some pix here: http://p38arover.com/rover/p38a/kaymar/ and can add a lot more of the bar unassembled and also pics take from under the car after I fitted it.

[996TURBO]

I'm not sure what you need to know, Flo.

Can I phone you? (I have VoIP so the cost is minimal). If so, PM me with your no. and time to call.

In the meantime, I have some pix here: Index of /rover/p38a/kaymar (http://p38arover.com/rover/p38a/kaymar/) and can add a lot more of the bar unassembled and also pics take from under the car after I fitted it.

Ron, thanks for the offer but i found answer to my questions in your pix.

Happy to see that it's possible to remove the arm and not carry the wheel if i do some Paris downtown trips with the tank:D

Looks like really well engineered:)

I think i'll have a longer arm made in order to center the wheel for look purpose only...

[p38arover]

Glad to hear the pix helped, Flo.

Ron

[996TURBO]

Glad to hear the pix helped, Flo.

Ron
Hello Ron,

Got my Kaymar. Any idea how to remove the swing away arm?. I can't pry the hub cap?

Happy Christmas

Flo

[p38arover]

The cap just pries off, Flo. It could be rusted on. Work around it with a large flat screwdriver. It might need a good pre-soak with WD40.

After removal, there is a castellated nut with a split pin. Remove those and the carrier should lift off. The tapered roller bearings are just trailer axle wheel bearings and are commonly available here. They'll probably be rusty and either need replacement or cleaning and greasing. The shaft on which the arm swings is, I think, a trailer stub axle.

[996TURBO]

The cap just pries off, Flo. It could be rusted on. Work around it with a large flat screwdriver. It might need a good pre-soak with WD40.

After removal, there is a castellated nut with a split pin. Remove those and the carrier should lift off. The tapered roller bearings are just trailer axle wheel bearings and are commonly available here. They'll probably be rusty and either need replacement or cleaning and greasing. The shaft on which the arm swings is, I think, a trailer stub axle.
Thank you so much for those tips. I'll try it very soon.

The thing is currently at my fabricator to see how to make some others:p:p.

[p38arover]

I'd suggest a stub axle on the other side as well - easy to do whilst it's off. Then you could make a LH or RH wheel carrier or something else to pivot one either side.

[996TURBO]

Hello Ron,

I have a question about the steps 2 and 3 of the Kaymar mounting instructions:(

I didn't understand anything about how securing the arms into the chassis rails.

Chassis rails do have 19mm holes but it is not a pass through ie there's a hole on one side of the frame, and a hole on the other side but those are not matching

Instructions refers to 2 rectangular spacer plates with 18mm holes.

Of course, the old bumper wasn't provided with bolts so i need to order everything.

Thanks for you help

Flo

[p38arover]

Hi Flo,

I didn't get any instructions with mine. I had to work it out.

I'll get under it and work out what you need.

Some of the nuts came with long pieces of wire welded to them so that they could be held up inside the chassis rails whilst a bolt was put through the hole.

Can you scan the instructions and email them to me at p38arover@gmail.com ?

[DT-P38]

I don't have a p38 one yet, but when I put a 2nd hand Kaymar wheel carrier on the mrs landcruiser a few years ago, it had one or two threaded plates or nuts on wire to slot into the chassis rail and attach bolts to through the rail and supports. The support was predrilled with holes that aligned to existing holes in the chassis rail. So no drilling under the car was needed. They were nothing sophisticated, and i think it would be fairly simple to tack weld something like that up using an appropriately sized and spec'd nut and bolt to use on yours.

[p38arover]

it had one or two threaded plates or nuts on wire to slot into the chassis rail and attach bolts to through the rail and supports.

I did mine so long ago I don't recall what was actually used - nuts, or plates with welded-on nuts. I'll go out and try to see/photograph what mine uses.

I just remember seeing the bits of wire last week when I had the car on the hoist to replace the track rod and drag link.

[p38arover]

I didn't understand anything about how securing the arms into the chassis rails.

Chassis rails do have 19mm holes but it is not a pass through ie there's a hole on one side of the frame, and a hole on the other side but those are not matching

Instructions refers to 2 rectangular spacer plates with 18mm holes.


I think I've worked it out, Flo.

The arms that go inside the chassis rails have two holes in them, one on the bottom, the other on the side.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/1298.jpg

Bolts are passed through these holes from inside the chassis rails. To get the bolts into place, long thin strips of thin metal were welded to the bolt heads (wire could be used). Using the strips, feed the bolts along the rails and manoeuvre them through the holes. Do each side.

I don't recall getting any spacer plates. Perhaps I should have. My bar was second hand. There's every likelihood the original car has an awful rattle from the spacer plates still being in the chassis. Had I received instructions, I'd have made up the spacer plates.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/1299.jpg

Do you have the reinforcing strut?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/1300.jpg

I hope this helps.

P.S. I just received the instructions. Thank you.

[DT-P38]

I did mine so long ago I don't recall what was actually used - nuts, or plates with welded-on nuts. I'll go out and try to see/photograph what mine uses.

I just remember seeing the bits of wire last week when I had the car on the hoist to replace the track rod and drag link.

Hers was an over bumper one (not bumper replacement like yours) but I think they all have similar style anchorings... been and had a look on the cruiser and cant see anything worth a photo... its all hidden under plastic and more importantly inside the actual chassis rail. Might see if I can find the fitting instructions later today. I think from memory they were pretty comprehensive and had photo's...

Either way, I would be pretty sure KAymar would be able to provide another just as long as you don't say its for a P38. Last time I made contact on the subject they flatly denied making one - ever!

I guess the first couple of customer contact layers are probably not old enough to remember even if they were with the company back then!

[p38arover]

Aha!

I've just read the instructions.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=44184&stc=1&d=1330740310

What they want you to do, before fitting the bar to the chassis, is to slide the reinforcing plates into position with their respective bolts and then wiggle the bolts through the chassis holes and fit the nuts. Temporarily tighten the nuts. Now drill a hole through the chassis and the reinforcing plate to pop-rivet it into position. Remove the nuts and the bolts with their long wire attachments leaving the plates pop-riveted to the chassis.

Slide the bar into the chassis and then refit the bolts from inside the chassis through the bar and the reinforcing plates. Fit the nuts.

I haven't done this as I didn't get the plates. I may have to remove the bar and refit it as it does bang around a bit. :(

I just another look at the pics. The ones I posted are not from my car but from another car I saw before I got my bar. I can just make out the pop-rivets in the pics.

I have included a pic from the other side of the same car and you can see the pop rivet.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/1296.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/1297.jpg

[DT-P38]

Might see if I can find the fitting instructions later today. I think from memory they were pretty comprehensive and had photo's...

Scrub that, "Ron's Rescue Services" beat me to it... by miles!

[p38arover]

Curses. I just crawled under my car and had another look. I can see the rivets so I must have fitted the reinforcing plates.

That means the banging is from something else. Time to check the bolts for tightness.

[p38arover]

Scrub that, "Ron's Rescue Services" beat me to it... by miles!

I'll post the instructions that Flo sent into the Files area of AULRO.....

Done. http://www.aulro.com/afvb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=7&id=143

[p38arover]

I'm getting old. :(

I'd forgotten this thread: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/87907-kaymar-rear-bar-fitting.html#post1068470

[996TURBO]

I don't have a p38 one yet, but when I put a 2nd hand Kaymar wheel carrier on the mrs landcruiser a few years ago, it had one or two threaded plates or nuts on wire to slot into the chassis rail and attach bolts to through the rail and supports. The support was predrilled with holes that aligned to existing holes in the chassis rail. So no drilling under the car was needed. They were nothing sophisticated, and i think it would be fairly simple to tack weld something like that up using an appropriately sized and spec'd nut and bolt to use on yours.
@DT-P38 : yes i think it could be much easier to tack weld some nut on the bumper arms

@p38arover: i was almost sure i found out the instructions here:cool:
No i don't have the reinforcement plates but could fab those.
Looks like passing the bolts through these holes from inside the chassis rails will be a real pain.:twisted: I can't see what will prevent the bolts heads from turning when i'll wrench...:(

What do you think about the idea of welding 2 nuts on each arm??:angel:

[p38arover]

Looks like passing the bolts through these holes from inside the chassis rails will be a real pain.:twisted: I can't see what will prevent the bolts heads from turning when i'll wrench...:(

I think it was a pain to align them but I must have been able to do it.


What do you think about the idea of welding 2 nuts on each arm??:angel:

I wonder why Kaymar didn't do that? It seems the logical thing to do.

[996TURBO]

I think it was a pain to align them but I must have been able to do it.



I wonder why Kaymar didn't do that? It seems the logical thing to do.

I believe that they didn't do that in order to align them easily

[p38arover]

You are probably right.

[benji]

I emailed Kaymar the other week about doing a re-run of their bar if I could get X number of people to put deposits down, this was their responce. Somehow I don't believe that they don't have the drawings / CAD....


Hi Benji

Unfortunately the side wings of the bar we manufactured for this vehicle where cast alloy and the castings have been destroyed.

We do not have jigs, drawings etc available at all for this bar.

So we are unable to assist you on this product.

[PaulP38a]

so essentially they are saying they made a sub-standard product and they do not keep documentation for products no longer on the line?

This sets off all kinds of alarm bells in terms of customer service, consumer protection, and record-keeping compliance.

I think I'd be wary of recommending Kaymar for any product based on the experiences of folks on this forum.

[Hoges]

I suspect they also decided that the tojo market was far larger and therefore potentially more lucrative... ah well!

[DT-P38]

At least they admitted they had done them (once upon a time)!

[benji]

I fear it may be a case of Kaymar protecting their intellectual property, however I tend to think if they're not going to use this CAD in the future, then they should release it, or sell it. Pretty poor form!

From my reading it's only rockrover that makes a rear bar / tire carrier now.

[DT-P38]

I fear it may be a case of Kaymar protecting their intellectual property, however I tend to think if they're not going to use this CAD in the future, then they should release it, or sell it. Pretty poor form!

From my reading it's only rockrover that makes a rear bar / tire carrier now.

I'm pretty sure Hard Range have front and rear bars available to order.

[benji]

mmm, that sounds like a good excuse to drive to Canberra. Would anyone have a photo :angel:

[PaulP38a]

Alas, we (Hard Range) do not have a rear bar in production yet, and maybe never. We trialled one about 18 months ago, but it needs a lot of work to be production-ready.

The rear bar on my 1999 model is a custom job that was done as part of a group buy through this forum in 2008.
http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/5448-2/IMG-20111003-00204.jpg

The group buy was arranged through 4x4 Intelligence in Melbourne, although I can't seem to find them any more.

Now that the RAI/Snorkel is in production, and the sliders are nearing completion, we (and I really mean Andy who is the mechanical brains of the business) may be able to re-focus on the rear bar.

Cheers, Paul.

[DT-P38]

Hey Andy,

Put me on the "buy list" for sliders X 2 sets please.

Also after sway bar disconnects X 1 set when you have finished smashing that Jag up in the demolition derby!