Stainless steel wheel nuts....Legal ?

[rijidij]

I notice there's a company in the UK making stainless wheel nuts (M16x1.5) to suit Land Rovers with steel wheels fitted >>> Wheel Nuts in Marine Grade 316 Stainless (http://www.wrington.co.uk/landrover.htm) <<< GBP70 for a set of 20.
I like the idea, as they are enclosed and don't rust, but would stainless wheel nuts actually be legal to fit ?
They come in a choice of polished or unpolished. I would go for unpolished, otherwise they would be the only shiny thing on my County :D
I'm waiting on a quote for delivery to Oz.

Cheers, Murray

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Hasn't stainless steel got a lower tensile rate?

[incisor]

that it has and it also binds a hell of a lot easier..

wheels nuts are not usually done in high tensile i wouldn't think

but the binding would be a big issue for me...

not a game i would like to be playing.

[rovercare]

that it has and it also binds a hell of a lot easier..

wheels nuts are not usually done in high tensile i wouldn't think

but the binding would be a big issue for me...

not a game i would like to be playing.

That, very much, bound stainless, is satan's mother.......with PMS

[rijidij]

It's not sounding like stainless wheel nuts are a good idea then.

Just for interest, this is the quote they sent..........

23 of the non polished type will cost £80 and will cost £40 to ship to Australia

[Terrain Vehicles]

How many replacement standard nuts could you buy for that money?

[wardy1]

How many replacement standard nuts could you buy for that money?
And get them plated to look like stainless???
Don;t see the point really, but each to his/her own

[Dougal]

Stainless only binds to itself. It doesn't bind to other steel threads or the average wheel stud.
The yeild strength of 316 is roughly double that of "mild" steel and the tensile strength 50% higher. Neither of those are cause for concern.

http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=3ed757f205d141e3b03a0c1e5c2 6227c&ckck=1


How many replacement standard nuts could you buy for that money?
About four if you buy them in the wrong place.

[JDNSW]

Stainless only binds to itself. It doesn't bind to other steel threads or the average wheel stud.
The yeild strength of 316 is roughly double that of "mild" steel and the tensile strength 50% higher. Neither of those are cause for concern.

MatWeb - The Online Materials Information Resource (http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=3ed757f205d141e3b03a0c1e5c2 6227c&ckck=1)


About four if you buy them in the wrong place.

Also worth noting that Landrover wheel studs/nuts are far stronger than they need to be - compare the PCD and stud diameter on any comparable vehicle. (Refers to Landrover Series, Defender/90/110, 101, RRClassic, D1.)

I cannot see a problem with them, but I would question whether they would have any advantages other than bling.

John

[Bigbjorn]

I am pretty sure wheel nuts are not made of any fancy steel. For many years lots of makes used brass.

Stainless can be a bit of bugger. I would run a tap down the new nuts and a die over the studs and clean off any swarf before first use and always use nickel antiseize. Maybe kiss the inner end of the nut with an appropriate sized drill to give a taper lead-in.

[incisor]

Stainless only binds to itself. It doesn't bind to other steel threads or the average wheel stud..
In a perfect world you might be right but in practice it aint so. Have many times seen it gall on everything from high tensile steel to high sulphur free machining steel esp if out in the elements.

[Dougal]

In a perfect world you might be right but in practice it aint so. Have many times seen it gall on everything from high tensile steel to high sulphur free machining steel esp if out in the elements.

I've put in hundreds of stainless bolts, without any assembly lube (food grade grease for my applications) you'll bind about 30% with hand-tightening.
The binding is because stainless steel forms a very thin oxide layer which protects the base metal from corrosion. In a stainless on stainless friction application (like tightening a nut) the oxide layer is broken through and you have fresh stainless on fresh stainless. Giving perfect conditions for a friction weld.

I've only had that happen with one non-stainless bolt. It was a chromed mild-steel bolt and chromed mild steel nut. I have never had it happen with mixed stainless and high tensile (cap screws etc) or stainless and zp steel.

[incisor]

Your a lucky man

Am sure any fitter with meat works or food industry experience will have come across it ;-) just as i did.

[Dougal]

Your a lucky man

Am sure any fitter with meat works or food industry experience will have come across it ;-) just as i did.

Which is funny, because I'm an engineer who has done a lot of work in meat-works automation and continue to for the food industry. Last year using a lick of food grade grease as lube I don't think I bound any stainless bolts. The year before was a battle, we were trying not to use any lube to appease the clients.

But for both of those it is all stainless bolts. Not stainless nuts on ferritic studs.

[rovercare]

Which is funny, because I'm an engineer who has done a lot of work in meat-works automation and continue to for the food industry. Last year using a lick of food grade grease as lube I don't think I bound any stainless bolts. The year before was a battle, we were trying not to use any lube to appease the clients.

But for both of those it is all stainless bolts. Not stainless nuts on ferritic studs.

So you've never actually fitted stainless to steel?

Stainless is a pain, I used to do a bit of work on boats, just inboard V8 stuff, for a local boat business, stainless is evil

On regular use threads I wouldn't dare, stainless on stainless, bind.....alot, on steel the hardness of the stainless will chop out the threads when wound on and off at regular intervals, maybe with cautious use of the correct never sieze it would be ok, but I wouldn't

Do you need wheel nuts Rijidij? I have tubs of them

[rovercare]

In a perfect world you might be right but in practice it aint so. Have many times seen it gall on everything from high tensile steel to high sulphur free machining steel esp if out in the elements.

That's part of office engineering, its ok in theory

[uninformed]

not sure what wheels the op is running, but I would have thought S/S a no no with alloys???

Dougal, you do know your stuff, But I to have had stainless nuts bind on steel all thread and bolts. It is my habit now to througherly clean the thread and use inox spray and be slow and carefull....in the end it is quicker than a binding nut/thread.

[Casper]

Stainless only binds to itself. It doesn't bind to other steel threads or the average wheel stud.
The yeild strength of 316 is roughly double that of "mild" steel and the tensile strength 50% higher. Neither of those are cause for concern.

MatWeb - The Online Materials Information Resource (http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=3ed757f205d141e3b03a0c1e5c2 6227c&ckck=1)


About four if you buy them in the wrong place.

I don't care about what the books say, I can show you tonnes of Stainless adjusters which have bound them selves to steel adjusting rods.

It was one of Toro's smart ideas in the 80's which didn't last long before they went to Ally instead as at least with ally you could save the rod if the nut bound up.

Just do what I have always done and slap a bit of never sieze on the thread and do them up well tight.

I have not had one come loose nore had siezed wheel nuts.

Just put it on the thread not the tapered seat so it's got something to lock onto.

Cheers Casper

[Dougal]

So you've never actually fitted stainless to steel?

Eh? Read it all again, I've done it many times.

Is there anyone here who doesn't use antiseize (or at least grease) on their wheel nuts?

[uninformed]

Eh? Read it all again, I've done it many times.

Is there anyone here who doesn't use antiseize (or at least grease) on their wheel nuts?

yep me, should I? (tech answer please)

[Dougal]

yep me, should I? (tech answer please)

Really? (how's that for a tech answer)?

[uninformed]

yes really, so if you can explain what is going on and why to use it I would appreciate it

[scarry]

And just to add,in commercial A/C fans,if you have a stainless shaft,you always have trouble getting the pully,bearings & fan off the shaft.Even if it has been coated with anti sieze on assembly,after a few yrs everything on the shaft will be siezed on.And if it has an alloy pully,it will never ever move again.
On assembly,use a steel shaft & soft seal coating,will come apart no worries in a few yrs time.Or use anti sieze,but we find soft seal better,comes off easy with CRC.

[rijidij]

Do you need wheel nuts Rijidij? I have tubs of them

Thanks mate, but I don't actually need any, just never liked the original wheel nuts rusting. Typical of Land Rover not to put a decent finish on their components, just look at the paint on the rear chassis face of many Defenders (even late model one's)
I got one set of wheel nuts zinc plated while I was having some other stuff done and they've been good so far, and I do use antseize too.

Cheers,. Murray

[Dougal]

yes really, so if you can explain what is going on and why to use it I would appreciate it

Don't you get sick of the dry squeaking and not being able to spin them on and off easily?

[uninformed]

Don't you get sick of the dry squeaking and not being able to spin them on and off easily?

If they do squeak, I can't hear them over the road noise of a lifted defender on muddies. Spinning them on and off doesn't seem to be a problem for the impact wrench. And never had a flat on it in 11 years......

[rick130]

Dougal means squeaking when you are running the nuts on and off.

Old school mechanics say you must never lubricate a wheel nut/stud/taper and will kick your arse if they see you doing it but I've been doing it for over 25 years now and no issue.

My theory is you will achieve a more correct tension on the assembly if the threads are lubricated, (just as when assembling fasteners anywhere else, eg. assembling an engine) and shock-horror, I lubricate the taper too.

[Casper]

I'm an old school mechanic and I was told to do it at trade school back in the day.

One of the only things I remember from trade school other than how to do a good roll back out the front at knock off time.

Your meant to put the torque wrench on them as well but who actually does that :p

Tech reason is like what was said in the previous thread, more likely to get even tension as your not working against a dry thread.

We were taught to use copper coat but just the loctite never sieze works for me.

Also on the alloy nuts on the shoulder which welds itself to the inside of the hole in the rim the loctite works wonders.

Cheers Casper

[TonyC]

Your meant to put the torque wrench on them as well but who actually does that :p

Cheers Casper

I do:D
At home anyway.

Tony

[incisor]

i was taught never to use never sieze and the like on anything you were going to use a torque wrench on.

light machine oil and a wire brush and away you go.

[Dougal]

You're in for some big problems if your nuts squeak while driving.:D

I use antiseize stick which I think is aluminium based. Simply because it's nice and convenient. I don't lube the tapers but they get some smeared across anyway.

I don't have my own air-tools, the ones I can borrow are usually more hassle than just setting to with the socket set. Swapping a set of wheels is a pain and anything that makes it easier is done.

[uninformed]

I know the guys at Beaurepairs Southport always finish with a torque wrench. That is where mine are rotated and balanced etc. Good to know the right people ;) realisticly they propabaly are lubricated from all the oil leaks a LR has...

[JDNSW]

From long experience I have lubricated wheel nuts for probably fifty years, having found very early in my driving career that unlubricated nuts only too often rust onto the studs, which can cause all sorts of problems when you get a flat tyre.

Particularly with Series Landrovers up to late S2a, with screw in studs, this often means that the studs screw out rather than the nuts come off, as that thread is protected from the elements a bit better. This usually damages the thread in the hub as the inner end of the stud in burred into a groove to stop them unscrewing, strictly speaking requiring the hub to be replaced (although welding the stud in seems to be more common!). While it is much rarer for drive in studs to turn, if they do (and I have known it to happen) it makes it almost impossible to remove the wheel on the road.

And as mentioned in earlier posts, lubricating the studs (and the taper) is the only way that it is possible to achieve the correct tension. For the same reason, the threads on both the stud and nut should be cleaned whenever you cannot turn them up by fingers.

John

[Bigbjorn]

i was taught never to use never sieze and the like on anything you were going to use a torque wrench on.

light machine oil and a wire brush and away you go.

Most given torque values can be assumed to be for clean lightly oiled threads unless otherwise specified. According to their literature, Loctite products are formulated to be the equivalent of this.

I use Loctite nickel anti-seize on just about anything that might corrode and need to be removed some time. An absolute must on exhaust manifold fasteners, exhaust system slip joints and flanges. Also particularly on items where dissimilar metals come together such as steel screws into aluminium. Never use copper based anti-seize products on aluminium.

[Dougal]

Every tyre shop I've been to in the last few years has been using anti-sieze, regulated air tools and finishing with a torque wrench.

They've really picked up their game from not long ago.

[rick130]

and FWIW I always use a tension wrench too, have done for twenty odd years.

Copper or Nickel based anti-seize, whichever one is closest at the time as it's steel on steel on a Deefer :D.

I was reminded of the old "don't lube it" theory recently when a neighbour saw me lubricating the threads on the horse float studs and he mentioned his old man would've kicked my backside if he'd seen it (ex-air force mechanic, now in his eighties)

[Hoges]

Slightly off topic as regards stainless steel, but worth reading Aluminum Bronze - Strong as steel - Engineering disaster (http://www.mechanicsupport.com/aluminum_bronze.html)
cheers

[rovercare]

I apply a little grease to the studs, use a 2'bar and elbow for tension "click":D

[Blknight.aus]

yep me, should I? (tech answer please)

YES......
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/105692-aa-workshop-basics.html
and
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1275744-post12.html