R 380 to a LT95 Tfr

[101RRS]

Has any one joined a R380 gearbox to an LT95 tfr case.

I am just thinking about options - not committed to anything. I am working towards upgrading my 101s 3.5 to a 4.6 and was also thinking about gearbox options. I currently have the LT95 with an overdrive and find transferring in out of overdrive a bit tiring and was thinking a 5 speed would be nice but need the LT95 tfr to run the winch. I also a good LT95 box tfr unit in the back yard that could be used.

So has anyone cut of the LT 95 gearbox from its transfer and put on a R380.

Yes I am aware of other issues such as bell housing/gearbox length issues etc but all these are workable. Just not sure of joining the R380 to the Lt95 tfr - I do not want to wreck my old LT95 only to find it is not doable.

Thanks

Garry

[rick130]

An LT230 has the PTO output on the back of the t/case, wouldn't that be easier and adapt it to the winch ?

[101RRS]

An LT230 has the PTO output on the back of the t/case, wouldn't that be easier and adapt it to the winch ?

No - the PTO goes out the side of the tfr case at the bottom and is gear driven not chain driven. It is not like any other configuration.

Thanks

Garry

[wrinklearthur]

Hi Garry

I would like to know more about the PTO you have, is it a factory built one and does it have one or two gears in it's gear train and which gear does it mate to in the transfer box ?

I went close to winning a rear PTO for a LT77, taking a bit of a punt that it was on a LT230 transfer, as the input gear is interchangeable and can be obtained with the PTO dogs. I didn't win so it doesn't matter now.

I don't have a LT85, to compare with, but I do have some accessible 2A transferboxes and some LT230 transferboxes. Let me know if you need any comparisons from these.
.

[woko]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/recovery/115381-new-pto-winch-best-set-up.html

Does the PTO out of the transfer box look like this?

[abaddonxi]

Check this out -
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/modified-zone/137809-5-litre-th700-post1566587.html?highlight=lt95#post1566547

[101RRS]

Hi Garry

I would like to know more about the PTO you have, is it a factory built one and does it have one or two gears in it's gear train and which gear does it mate to in the transfer box ?

I went close to winning a rear PTO for a LT77, taking a bit of a punt that it was on a LT230 transfer, as the input gear is interchangeable and can be obtained with the PTO dogs. I didn't win so it doesn't matter now.

I don't have a LT85, to compare with, but I do have some accessible 2A transferboxes and some LT230 transferboxes. Let me know if you need any comparisons from these.
.

The pto is the factory fitted version that is fitted only to the 101s as far as I am aware. I provides output laterally (sideways) to drive the winch (which is mid mounted outboard on the chassis next to the gearbox and tfr) unlike most other ptos that have drive fore and aft. Unlike the perenti winch PTOs which come off the bottom of the tfr and are chain driven the 101 ptos are gear driven. I do not know the actual gear arrangement but it is unique to the LT95.

A pto for a LT77 will be for the LT230 if it is original and will provide drive fore and aft. Transfer cases other than the LT95 are not relevant to my situation.

Cheers

Garry

[abaddonxi]

Came across this a couple of days back.

http://roversclub.org/docs/101Winch.pdf

[wagoo]

You are no doubt aware Gary that LT95 t/cases have been cut off and adapted to other transmissions.
Aside from an adaptor plate,you will need what is called a spud shaft, or a hollow shaft with the 10 spline R380 pattern on the inside and the LT95 spline pattern on the outside.The shaft must be self supporting on its own bearings within the transfercase, because the mainshaft on Lt77/85s/R380s are not designed to cope with side loadings. They could be described as full floating, like a halfshaft, wheras the LT95 mainshaft could be likened to a semi or non floating halfshaft.IMO the extra length of the adaptor will be a serious issue for a 101 unless a lot of effort was put into making the spudshaft, boring out the LT95 mainshaft gear and welding it to the spudshaft.This is because the mainshaft stickout length,from their respective gearbox housing are similar for both the R380 and LT95.
Haven't done the math, but you will lose a little of your low range gear reduction,because 1st gear on the lT95 box is lower than the R380.
Bill.

[101RRS]

Thanks Bill - all very good points and something to be considered - hence why I am interested if there is anyone who has actually done with change.

If it hasn't been done then I certainly not going to be the guinea pig.

Cheers

Garry

[wagoo]

You would probably be better off keeping things standard and fitting a pneumatic, vacuum or electric servo to your overdrive linkage, rigged up to activate only when the clutch pedal is operated.
Bill.

[101RRS]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/recovery/115381-new-pto-winch-best-set-up.html

Does the PTO out of the transfer box look like this?

No - like this (sideways)

Garry

[350RRC]

Hi Garry,

Purists will hate this...............but have you considered an auto trans in front of a LT95 TC? Not the BW bodge jobs, but a Ritters C 4/9 conversion from the early 1980's ?

It would bolt straight up to a 3.5 or 4.6 using stock trans mounts and stock driveshaft length. I have had one behind a 350 in a 74 RRC for some time now and really enjoy it.

The advantages are numerous.......... you get the multiplier effect from the torque convertor so it will take off much faster, outright initial cost is minimal because everyone wants a 5 or 6 speed, the workmanship in the bellhousing, adaptor section and the machining of the LT 95 is top notch. The cost of a full reco and bulletproofing of a C9 is less than a grand. A good C 4/9 would easily handle a 4.6 with the weight of a 101.

And it does crawl downhill in low range.

The only downside is that it is better leaving the auto in 1st or 2nd when in low range because it tends to hunt between the gears too much in drive with mega driveline clunks. Only when in low range though.

DL

[101RRS]

Thanks - have thought of it but would prefer to stay manual. Also the LT95 arrangement in the 101 is a couple of inches shorter than a normal LT95 so the engine will end up further forward than it is now but that is likely to be a similar issue for a R380 though I would be using a short bell housing so maybe not.

Cheers

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Garry

Have you considered using an electric or pneumatic solenoid on your overdrive?

It is the way that 2 speed truck diffs operate with the actuator switch attached to the shaft of the main gear stick just below the knob.

Diana

[wagoo]

Hi Garry,

Purists will hate this...............but have you considered an auto trans in front of a LT95 TC? Not the BW bodge jobs, but a Ritters C 4/9 conversion from the early 1980's ?

It would bolt straight up to a 3.5 or 4.6 using stock trans mounts and stock driveshaft length. I have had one behind a 350 in a 74 RRC for some time now and really enjoy it.

The advantages are numerous.......... you get the multiplier effect from the torque convertor so it will take off much faster, outright initial cost is minimal because everyone wants a 5 or 6 speed, the workmanship in the bellhousing, adaptor section and the machining of the LT 95 is top notch. The cost of a full reco and bulletproofing of a C9 is less than a grand. A good C 4/9 would easily handle a 4.6 with the weight of a 101.

And it does crawl downhill in low range.

The only downside is that it is better leaving the auto in 1st or 2nd when in low range because it tends to hunt between the gears too much in drive with mega driveline clunks. Only when in low range though.

DL
I've actually got one of those BW bodge jobs in the shed. Bit long for a 101 even if they weren't crap.
Even if Gary wanted to go over to auto trans, the 101 winch in my experience is not a particularly good match for a torque convertor.
Once when I was recovering a T400 auto equipped 101 that was bogged down to the diffs, the winch rope on my own vehicle wasn't long enough to reach so the 101 owner payed out some of the 101s winch rope and joined it to mine.
The 101s winch has very little gear reduction and depends on a positive connection to the engine to hold the vehicle on a slope when not winching.
The big Chevvy 454s torque convertor at a fast idle (2000rpm) couldn't provide enough resistance, and the pull from my winch only succeeded in unwinding his rope, even though his winch was also attempting to pull. We worked around this problem, but I'd imagine there would be some winching scenarios where this would be a PITA.
Bill.

[101RRS]

Garry

Have you considered using an electric or pneumatic solenoid on your overdrive?

It is the way that 2 speed truck diffs operate with the actuator switch attached to the shaft of the main gear stick just below the knob.

Diana

Only passing but is a good option - would be Ok changing into O/d but when changing out (essentially changing down a gear) may be problematic. The O/d is fully synchronised but like many gearboxes it requires a slow movement to not get ahead of the synchros - I normally double shuffle it when changing down which works well (mostly). If I changed down without double shuffling the movement is so slow that I immediately need to also change back from 4th to 3rd on the gearbox (unless on the flat) as you loose too many revs.

The type of change suggested would be OK engaging but most likely too quick when disengaging but obviously I have not tested it.

Cheers

Garry

[wagoo]

I've forgotten all the different permutations, but is there such a thing as a short Lt77/R380 to V8 bellhousing?
Your short 101 housing could be bolted on to an R380 with a sandwich plate.
Or how about fitting a complete short bell R380/Lt230 and fitting a right angle drive onto the output shaft of a vertically clocked Maxidrive winch PTO?
Bill.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I've forgotten all the different permutations, but is there such a thing as a short Lt77/R380 to V8 bellhousing?
Your short 101 housing could be bolted on to an R380 with a sandwich plate.
Or how about fitting a complete R380/Lt230 and fitting a right angle drive onto a vertically clocked Maxidrive winch PTO?
Bill.AFAIK Ashcrofts only make the short Bellhousing R380 kit for the 200Td1. The one to ask would be Dave Ashcroft "Ashtrans" on this forum.

[wagoo]

Only passing but is a good option - would be Ok changing into O/d but when changing out (essentially changing down a gear) may be problematic. The O/d is fully synchronised but like many gearboxes it requires a slow movement to not get ahead of the synchros - I normally double shuffle it when changing down which works well (mostly). If I changed down without double shuffling the movement is so slow that I immediately need to also change back from 4th to 3rd on the gearbox (unless on the flat) as you loose too many revs.

The type of change suggested would be OK engaging but most likely too quick when disengaging but obviously I have not tested it.

Cheers

Garry

I think you could play around with different servo pressures to get a reasonable shift, and with a ratio difference of only 27% I would think the synchros should be adequate.
My Warner T98 synchros have to cope with almost 100% ratio difference between gears, and they cope with fast shifts.



Most of the time.
Bill.

[350RRC]

Garry, Wagoo...... I was unaware of the short bellhousing on 101's, which takes the gloss off the auto option and didn't think of the winch PTO.

The stall speed in the torque convertor I have is about 1800.

DL

[101RRS]

Thanks - nothing that could not be overcome though. If I were 20 years younger I would have a go at putting a R380 or a ZF on the LT95 but I am getting too old to do it cold these days. I did a Holden Getrag to a Jag V12 about 15 years ago and I know that anything is doable - most of the issues have thought about - just a 5 speed would be nice without having to reach for that O/D lever.

Was hoping that someone had done the conversion but I guess not - so will stay as is.

Thanks for all the comments and input - has been great.

Cheers

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Only passing but is a good option - would be Ok changing into O/d but when changing out (essentially changing down a gear) may be problematic. The O/d is fully synchronised but like many gearboxes it requires a slow movement to not get ahead of the synchros - I normally double shuffle it when changing down which works well (mostly). If I changed down without double shuffling the movement is so slow that I immediately need to also change back from 4th to 3rd on the gearbox (unless on the flat) as you loose too many revs.

The type of change suggested would be OK engaging but most likely too quick when disengaging but obviously I have not tested it.

Cheers

GarryI guess you haven't heard an Eaton 2 speed grind it's gears when you miss a change! :o

Take a look at this Dana Corp publication of the diff shift mechanisms. http://www2.dana.com/pdf/AXSM-0029.pdf

You may be able to adapt the same mechanism to operate the selector rod on the O/D.

[wagoo]

Garry, Wagoo...... I was unaware of the short bellhousing on 101's, which takes the gloss off the auto option and didn't think of the winch PTO.

The stall speed in the torque convertor I have is about 1800.

DL
I have seen a C4 adapted to a Series tranfercase and the whole assembly was very short, so to an LT95 T/case shouldn't be longer than a 101 assembly, which due to the short bell is 100mm shorter than a standard RR/110 LT95.
The 101 winch due to its high gearing, and its mounting point, being cantilevered off the left hand chassis rail,on a light chassis with so few crossmembers was IMO only really intended to quickly and accurately position artillary pieces once unhitched from the vehicle, rather than for heavy duty self recovery.
If 101s weren't so rare, and presumably Garry wants to keep his vehicle reasonably authentic, the winch and PTO unit would IMO best be sold off and replaced by a conventional mid mounted PTO winch between the chassis rails. A friend who travels extensively and solo through the outback is doing exactly that to his 101 camper, but he's front mounting the winch for balance due to the weight of the rear camper section.
Bill.

[350RRC]

Hi Wagoo,

The Ritters adaptor between the C9 and TC is about 6" long from memory, which now occurs to me is just to keep engine and trans mounting points in the stock locations in a RRC in 1980. It could easily be made shorter.

From memory the auto output shaft had the input to the LT95 welded on and there is a fair bit of shaft out the end of the auto to play with. Should have taken photos at the time.

I still have the whole original LT95 from my 74 sitting on the floor in the shed and can't imagine how you'd fit a clutch in one with a bellhousing 100mm shorter, but it must have been so.

DL