A Bit Of Inspiration For The 101 Builders

[101RRS]

Last week I went down to the Snowys with two other members of my LR Club and hooked up with the LROC (Syd) and the RRC (Syd). I had my 101, there was a Series 2A and a near new Puma 90 Limited Edition.

So here are some pics of the 101 - to provide a bit of inspiration to those building 101s (like Stuee) of the type of things you will be getting up to in your 101 when it gets on the road. These pics were taken by Peter Mercer of the LRC ACT.

Crossing the Murray at Tom Groggan (a jap dual cab ute drowned here about 10 minutes later going straight across rather than staying near the rapids)

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/GeehiDecember20116.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/GeehiDecember20117.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/GeehiDecember20119.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/GeehiDecember201110.jpg

Coming down the Tom Groggan Trail in Vic - took the chicken route but there was a 2' drop back onto the maintrack - was on 3 wheels a bit. New 101 drivers will get used to being careful when decending steep rutted hills and lifting wheels and wanting to tip over.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/GeehiDecember201154.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/GeehiDecember201156.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/GeehiDecember201158.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/GeehiDecember201161.jpg

Some other river crossings at Geehi - some holes were deep enough to fill the drivers headlight with water.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/GeehiDecember2011114.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/GeehiDecember201130.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/GeehiDecember2011117.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/GeehiDecember201131.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/IMG_0485.jpg

Only damage on the 700km trip was the headlight full of water and a broken speedo cable (anyone got one?). The 101 went really well, the old MRF tyres suffered on the bitumen with tight corners and the engine revved and revved and loved it on the steep climbs. 300m to 1700m in a few miles. No smoke from the engine observed on climbs or decents so it must be in good shape. Lacking a bit of torque so maybe a new cam might be needed.

Cheers

Garry

[101 Ron]

I wish I was there.
My head light reflectors have a small 1/8 hole drilled in the bottom of them to drain the water from the lowest part of the lens.
I killed a reflector early in the piece by leaving the water/ mud in the head light for alittle while and that is enough to lift the reflective surface.
( check my avatar)
Garry you are braver than me...........I will never get used to the backend lifting and a front wheel dropping down a hole.........I still remember the wallaroo quarry decent..
Whats with the spare tyre ?
Your 101s motor is OK the couple of times I drove it,,,,,,freeing up flow by going from a tee piece to a Y piece before the muffler on mine made a slight improvement ......I love the 101s motor on a off road climb and its great flexible rev range you can trickle along at 1000 rpm all day or venture into 5000 rpm plus if needed......long live 101 landrovers.
May be we should plan a run to the Brindabellas??????? 101 landy style ????

[The ho har's]

If you haven't seen already, there is an Inaugural military event happening in Guyra, have posted it up in REMLR, we are taking 'herc' have a think about it too guys:)

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/remlr-general/141537-northern-tablelands-military-vehicle-rally-27-29-jan-12-a.html

Mrs hh:angel:

[DT-P38]

I want a 101

[101RRS]

Whats with the spare tyre ?


I have an ancillary battery where the spare normally goes so I have it strapped where you can see it in the pic.

Garry

[stuee]

:D:D

Thanks for the pics Garry. Cant wait to at least get mine drivable in the driveway. Hit a bit of snag with funds with xmas and a whopping vet bill but have got things rolling again and a big list of things to do, even while the monies not there so should keep progressing!!

Like Ron says though, I think it will take a while for me to get used to angles like that (5th picture). Especially as seeing as your up and over the front wheels :eek:

Cheers,
Stuee

[Mick_Marsh]

Great pictures Gary. Thanks for sharing.

I want a 101
Dave,
Get that one I'm looking at.
He's listed it as "open to offers". Offer him 3k.
He still won't send me the photo's I've requested. I've just about had enough of him. If you want to sell a vehicle, make sure the potential buyer is happy.

[Sleepy]

Looks like fun Garry. Can't wait to get mine dirty..:twisted: Struggling find time at the moment.:mad: Like the idea of a 101 hook up somewhere. :angel:

[jakeslouw]

There are only a handful of 101s in South Africa, as they have to be privately imported, and our vehicle importing rules are excessive.

I can get an FC2B though...... and I need a ute for the farm....:o

[wagoo]

:D:D


Like Ron says though, I think it will take a while for me to get used to angles like that (5th picture). Especially as seeing as your up and over the front wheels :eek:

Cheers,
Stuee

Instead of getting used to,or learning to live with it.Has anyone tried experimenting with the suspension to see if the situation could be improved?
I wouldn't mind betting that the 101s for/aft and lateral centre of gravity would be comparable to my portal axled SWB, but it is extremely stable in all crosscountry situations due to a flexible and articulate suspension.
Those offcamber drop offs that upset 101s for example.Would the situation be improved if one were to disconnect the front antiroll bar? And/ or , as an experiment,temporarily unbolting the diagonally opposite (to the drop off) spring shackle, to allow the rear end to flex a bit?
I would find it hard to believe that the situation couldn't be improved, especially as the broadly similar but shorter(91''Wb),higher COG, and more capable Volvo C303, due to a more flexible suspension doesn't seem to suffer the 101s diagonal instability to anywhere near the same degree.
Bill.

[101RRS]

Removing the front roll bar does help things - and the answer is simply more compliant suspension - remember it has a load carrying capacity of 1.5 tonne so the suspension is not all that compliant - softer longer travel suspension is all that is needed - however note the lift a wheel characteristic is quite common in FC vehicles - in particular the Haflinger which falls over all the time and the Pinzgauer (close to the size of a 101) which will easily fallover and both of these have soft independent suspensions - the 101 is far better with this issue than both of these vehicles.

Modern D3/D4s/RRS have the same issue as well, with relatively short travel suspension - my RRS would have probably be lifting the rear drivers wheel if I had it in the same situation but it would not have the ramp over to be able to get back onto the track.

Suspension changes can be done to the 101 to improve things (scratch built softer rated springs or Haystees which are no longer made) but in my view this is taking mods too far for a rare vehicle.

Haystee springs
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/101-0001.jpg

Here are some of the pics Ron alluded to. This first one is interesting - I did not have to go into the hole but there was a risk to the vehicle if a took a different line. There is a bank to the left of the pic that would stop the 101 rolling if the tip was too great. I went in slowly so that there was no lurch - front drivers wheel in the hole and rear passenger wheel high in the air but no roll.

These pics were taken by Ron.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Gary5-1.jpg

Some wheel lifting going up :). Shaken not stirred.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Gary3-1.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Gary4-1.jpg

Some Pinz stuff - much more unstable than the 101.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/pinz5-1.jpg

Pinz2-1.mp4 video by gazzz21 - Photobucket@@AMEPARAM@@http://vid42.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Pinz2-1.mp4@@AMEPARAM@@vid42@@AMEPARAM@@42@@AMEPARAM@@e3 34/gazzz21/Pinz2-1@@AMEPARAM@@mp4

Garry

[wagoo]

Interesting photos Garry.I mentioned the Volvo because I dont rate vehicles with swing axle suspension such as Hafs, PinZ, Tatras, early VWs etc. They would cock wheels on my driveway. And when the wheel comes back to earth the track width is suddenly 6'' narrower until the tyre can slip sideways and normalise the suspension.
I appreciate the problem of heavily modifying rare and relatively unique vehicles. That's why I suggested simple stuff like disconnectable antiroll bar, and alluded to something like telescopic or scissor type spring shackles, which can be removed to return the vehicle back to original when desired.
If the stability issues can be relatively easily addressed, and help to keep the shiney side up, that can't be a bad thing in that it would tend to preserve the rare hard to replace body parts of both vehicle and occupants:)

BTW, has anyone on the forum unintentionally tested the std 101 rollover bar? I have the remains of a vehicle that had a rusted out chassis, and the bulkhead mounting for the rollbar is scary.
Bill.

[101RRS]

BTW, has anyone on the forum unintentionally tested the std 101 rollover bar? I have the remains of a vehicle that had a rusted out chassis, and the bulkhead mounting for the rollbar is scary.
Bill.

No but the roll bar does not go down to the chassis and relys on the shape of the body work where it bolts on gets its strength. I think it would be OK in a slow roll over but anything more spectacular would be more problematic.

Garry

[101 Ron]

Instead of getting used to,or learning to live with it.Has anyone tried experimenting with the suspension to see if the situation could be improved?
I wouldn't mind betting that the 101s for/aft and lateral centre of gravity would be comparable to my portal axled SWB, but it is extremely stable in all crosscountry situations due to a flexible and articulate suspension.
Those offcamber drop offs that upset 101s for example.Would the situation be improved if one were to disconnect the front antiroll bar? And/ or , as an experiment,temporarily unbolting the diagonally opposite (to the drop off) spring shackle, to allow the rear end to flex a bit?
I would find it hard to believe that the situation couldn't be improved, especially as the broadly similar but shorter(91''Wb),higher COG, and more capable Volvo C303, due to a more flexible suspension doesn't seem to suffer the 101s diagonal instability to anywhere near the same degree.
Bill.

Garry has nailed it.
I have done abit of experimenting in the flex department.
My sway bar was removed day one.
Unloaded the front end flexs to full shocker travel which is plenty.
The rear end unloaded barely moves as the spring rates are too high for civie use.
The 101 rear end will flex very well with standard springs , but only with a full 1.5 ton load in the rear.
The Cof G and general balance of the vehicle is set up for a fully loaded condition.
The best thing is the CofG side ways tilting is extremely good and far more than you would think and I can only put this down to no body work up high on GS models and what body work there is is alloy.( remember the 101 is slightly wider than a average landy and the motor and trans is alloy too.)
I am still to find time to do some spanner work and more measuring, but some models of Ford F series rear springs and Ford transit van appear to be a almost bolt in fit and are twin leaf parabolic type design like the 101s
It is interesting to note
the drivers book only remmends towing a trailer of any type with 500kg or more at the rear most part of the load area.
The forward control is always abit different going down a steep drop when you sit in front of the front axle .

[101RRS]

I suspect that if the 101 is not going to be used a load carrier just removing one of the rear parabolic leaves would work - would give about a 750kg capacity but there would only be one leaf.

Not sure I would do it to the front springs though.

Garry

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/276.jpg

[101 Ron]

The following is my 101 with standard springs on full twist so the load is on two diangonal wheels and I was testing with rear shockers disconnnected.
The vehicle is unladen
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1243.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1244.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1245.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1246.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1247.jpg
Extension rear axle
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1248.jpg
Compression rear axle.
Plenty of shocker stroke left and therefore no need to disconnect them .
The front shockers were at full travel

[101 Ron]

Some more pics, this time of the front end.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1239.jpg
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/101Ron/BILD0117.jpg
Extension




http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/101Ron/BILD0115.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1240.jpg

Compression






https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1241.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/1242.jpg

[101 Ron]

With the testing I have done the front doesnt need any more flex, as excessive spring and bush wear will occur.
Extra flex must come from the rear with softer rated springs.
In fact I feel just using one leaf in the rear would be about right for a unloaded 101 Gs..........I think running one spring leaf in the rear is a risk not worth taking ,as if it lets go there is no back up and all hell breaks loose.
Mr Hystees aftermarket springs were the answer and he is not making more.

[wagoo]

With the testing I have done the front doesnt need any more flex, as excessive spring and bush wear will occur.
Extra flex must come from the rear with softer rated springs.
In fact I feel just using one leaf in the rear would be about right for a unloaded 101 Gs..........I think running one spring leaf in the rear is a risk not worth taking ,as if it lets go there is no back up and all hell breaks loose.
Mr Hystees aftermarket springs were the answer and he is not making more.

I think removing a leaf from the standard rear springs would also be a bad move re axle tramp control.
I run single leaf Transit front Paras on the rear of my SWB and used to get terrible axle tramp, and broke a few springs before I fitted a Tripod link to locate the rear axle and control housing rotation.
Multleaf semi elliptic springs as fitted to the 101 prototypes would probably give better flex without sacrificing load carrying ability, but would be significantly heavier, which is probably the reason LandRover chose to fit Paras on production vehicles.
Bill.

[jakeslouw]

Surely using the concept of cantilevering will help?


200kg-odd just behind the rear axle?

[lardy]

There are only a handful of 101s in South Africa, as they have to be privately imported, and our vehicle importing rules are excessive.

I can get an FC2B though...... and I need a ute for the farm....:o

Get a 101 from the uk for four to five grand import to Australia will end up as eighteen grand still cheap motoring


---
I am here: Google Maps
Sent from my iPhone using Telepathy

[jakeslouw]

Get a 101 from the uk for four to five grand import to Australia will end up as eighteen grand still cheap motoring




South Africa has just about closed the door on all imports to protect the local motor vehicle industry. All/Most RHD BMW 3-series are made here, and we export quite a few other RHD vehicles like Toyotas all over the world.
In fact, the Corolla on your local Australian showroom floor might have a Made In South Africa stamp on the manufacturing plate.

If we want to import, it MUST be the following:

- a RHD only
- a "recognized" collectors item or vintage vehicle

We still pay up to 80% of either the overseas purchase price or the evaluated local resale value, whichever is higher, as import tax.
Then there are other duties.
So it's not just the shipping costs.

So an FC101 that starts off at UKP4000 will attract another UKP3200 in taxes, then duties, then shipping.

I could be out of pocket for UKP15000.

That's around ZAR180,000. For that money I can buy a local Unimog and be done.

[Sleepy]

:eek2: Buy a mog!:)

[jakeslouw]

I can get the FC2B locally, ex-mil versions.

Getting a bit scarce and some are succumbing to metal weevil, but still a cool vehicle.

Mogs are mostly LHD and are becoming a pain to keep registered here.

[stuee]

I need more motivation pics :(. Spent last weekend detailing the disco and fixing a door lock and still have a raft of little items to fix (dead interior globes, cargo door central locking actuator, stuck hand brake light etc) before I can list it for sale then spend some money on the 101.

Restricted to evenings with the weather atm (no car port to work on the disco under) and have to go spend this evening at the future in-laws!!

Still, things could be worse, I could have no 101 to work on I guess :angel:

[101RRS]

My 101 is going to have to be my everyday driver for a little while - the RRS has a minor plumbing issue with the suspension air compressor but I am unable to work under it at the moment due to a medial issue so it is off the road.

The 101 is nice to drive around but is a bit of a pain in car parks - people want to park too close making it hard to get in and out. Wherever I can - I park across 2 parks - just makes things easier. Security is also an issue so nothing of value is kept inside.

Keep plugging it away at it - one day it will all be back together and running nicely.

Garry