Puma Shockies

[oldie]

Have a 2010 110 cab/chas with 20,000km on the clock. Has the heavy duty factory-fitted suspension.

Front end developed severe shuddering above 85 kmph so I had the wheels balanced but it was still there. Took the front drive shaft out and still the shakes and shudders were there.

Now had it back to the dealer and had the swivel pins ( ? ) tightened with shims and was told that it was all fixed. They also checked the steering damper and that was OK. Most of the shakes did go away. But there is still a slight shudder in the steering after hitting small bumps in the road.

Can it be that the shocks are on the way out ? The dealer reckons not.

How can I test them ?

[goingbush]

I would never think that shockers are causing the shakes.

Even a bad steering damper would not be the cause of shakes but sometimes a good steering damper will cover the shakes up.

What you are describing is common with wide wheels / offset too far out.
Do you have original rims ?

Next I'd check that the toe-in is correct, even if you have had a wheel alignment done a lot of places do not understand that a Defender needs 0 - 1.5mm TOE OUT, or -ve 1.5mm toe in . Most other 4x4 need +ve toe in.
That would cause your problem.

[TimNZ]

Hi,

Get you tyres checked to make sure none of them are out of round, or have any flat spots etc. I had a "shake" that would never go away on my 2008 110, it wasn't until I had the tyres balanced by another specalist, (i.e. not the one the dealer was using), that it was noticed that one of the tyres was not as round as it could be.

Cheers,

[oldie]

Thanks TimNZ, goingbush.

The reason I am looking to shockies is that on a smooth bit of road there is no shudder at any speed. But if you hit a bit of uneven surface then you feel it in the steering. Normally if you hit a pothole you feel a bump, bump as the wheel drops in then comes back up. With my case you feel many bump, bump, bumps.

I have actually had the wheels balanced myself, twice, at different places just to be sure. I thought after the first balancing that I might go to somebody used to handling heavier wheels.

Swapping the wheels around is next and then I guess I should get the alignment checked even though there is no indication of uneven wear.

But my question stands. Is there some way to check the shocks ?

[kentkal]

The easiest way to test shockies is to rock the car as hard as you can, then see if the rocking stops as soon as you stop. The best way is to remove shockies and pull in and out by hand and you should feel resistance.

[Allan]

Some suspension specialists have a test bed, when we used to own Alfa Romeo's the Alfa club did a club night on the test bed. That was about 20 years ago, I don't know if anyone does it now.

Allan

[TimNZ]

Just out of interest, what tyre pressures are you running Oldie?

Cheers,

Tim

[oldie]

Tim,

It still has the factory Michelins all round.

I have been running 35 on the front and around 42 on the back.

But found when it was loaded up with the Trayon etc that I had massive understeer on the open road. Was able to reduce that significantly by increasing pressures to 55/65

As a matter of interest, I rotated the wheels today and went for a drive. The wobble/shudder is still there in a big way. Seems to come on when the wheels are not straight ahead. On a pretty good surface at 85 kmph around a sweeping curve left or right seems to be the worst.

So I will see about an alignment Friday.

Keith

[rick130]

I would never think that shockers are causing the shakes.

[snip]


It can.

I've had a dead shock that caused shimmy when hitting bumps and at certain speeds. (drivers side, not that it matters)

Rebuilt it, problem solved.

BTW, pushing a shock/damper in and out is pretty meaningless, all you are doing is testing the bleed circuit.
The only way to test is either on a shock dyno, or have someone drive that knows damping, and even among race drivers that's pretty rare IME.

[justinc]

Loose radius rod bolts and panhard rod bolts/ bushes will also cause this. Has the whole front end been tightened??? I have tightened HEAPS of Puma front and rear suspensions, never have I seen so many that are loose and some dangerously so. Even the preceeding Td5 models didn't have this amount of issues with build etc.
Puma shocks from factory are Delphi gas charged, IMO better quality than the earlier models BUT you could have a dodgy one still, One of the easiest ways to test is find a corrugated / rough dirt road and get someone to drive past you in your vehicle while you watch to see if any of the wheels excessively bounce.

JC

[rick130]

Thanks JC, forgot to mention the panhard rod bolts too, that's pretty common.

[justinc]

Thanks JC, forgot to mention the panhard rod bolts too, that's pretty common.

Tooo common on the new ones:mad:

I tell ya, I am mighty disappointed, the more I see. Very disappointing as 100% of these things are preventable. Just had a 2010 with a stripped shaft between trans and transfer, at 52,000km - warranty job so flat trayed to the dealer. A 2008 130 with a trashed transfer case and by trashed I mean uneconomical to repair. Completely ate away the thrusts in the CD and destroyed the housing, flogged the case at the intermediate shaft and leaked like a sieve at 105,000km. Fitted a low km used one. I am not knocking the vehicles in an unkind way, I am just angry they have reduced the build quality and / or materials quality so much that these issues are even happening. I haven't even mentioned the multiple diff failures and rattling clutches, rubbed through intercooler hoses and leaking Vac pumps etc etc yet.


I love my almost 30 year old 110.

JC

[MinniTheMoocha]

I also had this problem and worked through all the suggestions thus far mentioned.

Initially I had improvement as one of my wheel bearings was loose but mine turned out to be preload on the swivel pins and it took two go's to get that right. Thanks to Madana for doing it up firmer than I thought necessary.

[dullbird]

Tooo common on the new ones:mad:

I tell ya, I am mighty disappointed, the more I see. Very disappointing as 100% of these things are preventable.
Just had a 2010 with a stripped shaft between trans and transfer, at 52,000km - warranty job so flat trayed to the dealer. A 2008 130 with a trashed transfer case and by trashed I mean uneconomical to repair. Completely ate away the thrusts in the CD and destroyed the housing, flogged the case at the intermediate shaft and leaked like a sieve at 105,000km. Fitted a low km used one. I am not knocking the vehicles in an unkind way, I am just angry they have reduced the build quality and / or materials quality so much that these issues are even happening. I haven't even mentioned the multiple diff failures and rattling clutches, rubbed through intercooler hoses and leaking Vac pumps etc etc yet.


I love my almost 30 year old 110.

JC

according to our new dealer this is common he has seen a few i'm not sure whether completely stripped but damaged, pretty sure this is what he was talking about.

[rick130]

Tooo common on the new ones:mad:

I tell ya, I am mighty disappointed, the more I see. Very disappointing as 100% of these things are preventable. Just had a 2010 with a stripped shaft between trans and transfer, at 52,000km - warranty job so flat trayed to the dealer. A 2008 130 with a trashed transfer case and by trashed I mean uneconomical to repair. Completely ate away the thrusts in the CD and destroyed the housing, flogged the case at the intermediate shaft and leaked like a sieve at 105,000km. Fitted a low km used one. I am not knocking the vehicles in an unkind way, I am just angry they have reduced the build quality and / or materials quality so much that these issues are even happening. I haven't even mentioned the multiple diff failures and rattling clutches, rubbed through intercooler hoses and leaking Vac pumps etc etc yet.


I love my almost 30 year old 110.

JC


according to our new dealer this is common he has seen a few i'm not sure whether completely stripped but damaged, pretty sure this is what he was talking about.

Sheesh, what's going on ?

Déjá vu, 1995 anyone ? :(

[oldie]

Since last post have had the front checked ans aligned. Was a fair way out.

A lot of the wobble went away but still not good enough.

So back to the dealer and they finally agreed there was a problem. They adjusted the preload on the swivel pins again but no joy. It has been with them all week now and I am told there is a crook bearing in the swivel assembly but they have to get one in from the UK.

Has any body had this problem ?

[rick130]

Since last post have had the front checked ans aligned. Was a fair way out.

A lot of the wobble went away but still not good enough.

So back to the dealer and they finally agreed there was a problem. They adjusted the preload on the swivel pins again but no joy. It has been with them all week now and I am told there is a crook bearing in the swivel assembly but they have to get one in from the UK.

Has any body had this problem ?

Not personally, but yes it can happen.
If the bearing is brinelled (has a small flat on it) no amount of shim adjustment will take the play out in that spot.

What blows me away is that LRA have none in stock.
It's just a smallish taper roller bearing and cone.

I'd bet any bearing service in the country could get them from a wholesaler here, and I'm betting at least four of the major LR parts importers have them on the shelf too.

[PAT303]

They would have stuffed the bearing setting the pre-load to tight. Pat

[Scouse]

They would have stuffed the bearing setting the pre-load to tight. PatAt a dealership.......never !!

[rick130]

They would have stuffed the bearing setting the pre-load to tight. Pat


At a dealership.......never !!


I wasn't going to dare suggest that either :angel: