300 Tdi head replacement questions

[jarrods]

Hi guys,

I am new to Land Rovers and have just picked up a Disco 1 300 Tdi. It has a blown head gasket. The car is 5 hrs from home and the easiest way to get it home is to drive it. I have been up and pulled the head, yep definitely blown gasket between 2 and 3. I ordered and received a new Turner performance head, bolts, gaskets etc. and am heading up to refit this weekend. I need to take everything i need with me as i wont be able to get much where the car is residing. I have the rave cd and have researched this site extensively. I am pretty comfortable with the spanner side of things but have a few questions.

Are there any updates to the manual or TSB's that relate to this job that I need to know about.

My other question relates to sealants and thread lockers. What would be the best sealant / compounds for the following

Thermostat housing to head

Inlet/exhaust manifold to head

Threaded water pipe coupling in top of head

Oil separator to head. I know this has an o-ring is this sufficient

Glow plugs (anti seize? One of the old ones broke off in the old head!)

Injectors - same as above

Do the inlet/exhaust studs require any thread locking compound

If any one has any other tips I'd love to hear them. I am looking forward to getting it all sorted and getting out to see some of the outback.

Thanks

Jarrod

[uninformed]

Im just a novice so take it for what you will. If by oil seperator you mean the black plastic cyclone that fits onto the rocker cover, Then I have seen both, ie from factory I believe LR just use the Oring. On my HS2.8tgv (very similar engine, same exact part), they use the O ring and also used a RTV type sealant, similar to ultra blue, blue maxx etc.

What head gasket did you get? I was reading here the other day that if using metal, it is best on decked blocks and heads and all surfaces must be Uber clean, not even finger prints. Bush65 also mentioned good practice of using more torque stages than the 3 or so that LR spec. Using the same bolt pattern procedure, just doing more stages to get to required settings. I believe he also mentioned that when 75% or so there, to back all bolt off in reverse order and start again. Something about the male and female threads settling better??? Might want to search that one haha I think it is in "Tank's" 300tdi cast iron head thread.

you should either use new copper washers on the injectors and banjo bolts for fuel return, or re-anneal the old ones. Apparently you can soften them buy using a flame from a gas stove or map-gas type tourch??? havent done it myself.

Obviously your truck is away and not ideal world. Given that it has done a head gasket, I would address a few potential issues. That is to remove the rad when you get back, have the end tanks removed and get the core checked, if ok, rod out, if not replace. I would install a new thermostat. If you are in a hotter part of Aus, you can use Tridon TT388-180. It has a crack opening temp of 82c rather than 88c. Make sure all your hoses are in good working order, get the system pressure flushed and charged with new good quality coolant. If you have a black plastic expansion bottle you may want to change it out for the latter white/opaque type. The black ones are known to split and dump coolant. Your viscous fan may be buggered also. Check and replace accordingly....

like I said just a novice but hope it helps some.

[Blknight.aus]

Hi guys,

I am new to Land Rovers and have just picked up a Disco 1 300 Tdi. It has a blown head gasket. The car is 5 hrs from home and the easiest way to get it home is to drive it. I have been up and pulled the head, yep definitely blown gasket between 2 and 3. I ordered and received a new Turner performance head, bolts, gaskets etc. and am heading up to refit this weekend. I need to take everything i need with me as i wont be able to get much where the car is residing. I have the rave cd and have researched this site extensively. I am pretty comfortable with the spanner side of things but have a few questions.

Are there any updates to the manual or TSB's that relate to this job that I need to know about.

My other question relates to sealants and thread lockers. What would be the best sealant / compounds for the following

Thermostat housing to head ATV Blue, if your not using a gasket hylomar #3 or stag if you are

Inlet/exhaust manifold to head Dont forget to cut the exhaust gasket into sections and either hylomar or Stag on the inletgasket but you dont really need it

Threaded water pipe coupling in top of head Loctite 567

Oil separator to head. I know this has an o-ring is this sufficient Yep, I usually install them with a smear of oil, grease or snow white jelly, but thats normal practice anyway

Glow plugs (anti seize? One of the old ones broke off in the old head!) Yes, coppercoat, nickle or silver based antisieze

Injectors - same as above I use nickle based antiseize but prefer the silver stuff

Do the inlet/exhaust studs require any thread locking compoundNOOOOO, copper coat or nickle antisieze

If any one has any other tips I'd love to hear them. I am looking forward to getting it all sorted and getting out to see some of the outback.

Thanks

Jarrod

Dont forget to oil the threads on the head bolts and lower dont drop them in place. Cleanliness is all important get yourself a 6 pack of spray brake clean and a bag of clean white rags before you go, take a compressor and an air duster.

a 3/8th drive socket set with adaptors will deal with most of the work you're about to do and make sure you get your torque wrench checked at the settings you're going to use prior to heading out.

[Judo]

Ha! Kudos to you. I'm writing this from a train that is taking me 4 hours to my Disco 1 300TDI after it broke down last weekend with a leaking head gasket. I also considered what you're doing - buying parts and heading back - instead I left it with a local mechanic. I've since done some research and haven't seen anything revolutionary.... Just torque bolts down using at minimum the number of stages recommended in the correct order. head almost certainly needs skimming or it will happen again.

Then at home Make sure cooling system is top notch. I'll be installing an EGT gauge, replacing expansion tank, cleaning radiator out and maybe changing the thermostat for an 82 degree one.

Where is your stuck? Mine's in Buchan, Vic.

Good luck and report back!

[jarrods]

Dont forget to oil the threads on the head bolts and lower dont drop them in place. Cleanliness is all important get yourself a 6 pack of spray brake clean and a bag of clean white rags before you go, take a compressor and an air duster.

a 3/8th drive socket set with adaptors will deal with most of the work you're about to do and make sure you get your torque wrench checked at the settings you're going to use prior to heading out.

Thanks heaps for the replys, lots of good info there. I've gone with the composite head gasket as the block is not getting decked. Once I get it home I intend to go right over it and replace anything that looks remotely worn. I can afford to spend a bit and still be in front as it has cost me bugger all to date. I've done this with cars in the past I find it gives me trouble free motoring for at least a couple of years plus I know where everything is at. All the hoses have been replaced this year except the 2 heater hoses and it was one of these that blew and caused the overheating ( I have new ones of these). The timing belt and fuel filters were also done this year. Hopefully this should be enough to get me home without any dramas. This car was bought from a mate who had all the above work done but the head gasket required more funds than he was prepared to commit. It means I also get to use his shed and compressor and I also get a place to sleep. Don't know if I would attempt it under different circumstances.

Blknight, where would you get a torque wrench tested. I have a 1/2 in Kingchrome for the big stuff and I have borrowed a 3/8 Warren and Brown from my BIL who is a mechanic for the smaller stuff.

Thanks again

Jarrod

[Blknight.aus]

I use the cal room at work...

But you can do it with a welder, a socket, a steel bench, a ruler and a known weight.

[bee utey]

I use the cal room at work...

But you can do it with a welder, a socket, a steel bench, a ruler and a known weight.

And for a known weight all you need is an accurate measuring jug and a 5 litre water container. That's how I checked my torque wrench.

[roverrescue]

Jarrod,
little 300tdi tip. Passenger side of block, half way down behind dip tube there is a bolt head. This is the block drain and will let you drop the water level from deck height down.
Will help when you are trying to clean up the deck.

When was the t-belt done? Although not entirely necessary to do the job. In a disco ripping the radiator/IC out and timing case off gives good swinging room. Chuck a new rubber band, idler & tensioner on and know that the other 300 weak spot is covered for a while?

S

[jarrods]

Just about done. I learnt a couple of things the hard way.

Put the bottom bolts for the thermostat housing into the head before you put the head on. I'm hoping I can get a stud into it as the bolt is sure not going to go in. A few choice words were said when I realized this after torquing the head down.

The other thing (not quite as bad) is to put the front glow plug in (even partially) before you put the head on. Saves removing the air con compressor to get it in.

Apart from the above it was all reasonably straight forward and went quite well. Hopefully finish it off tomorrow.

Jarrod

[Blknight.aus]

have you tried removing the timing belt cover to get to the thermostat bolt?

[eddy]

Back to the initial cause of the overheating.I had the same problem of a blown heater hose [split behind the head]but luckily the low level coolant alarm picked it up before any overheating occurred.Moral.....fit an alarm asap!

[jarrods]

Hi guys,

I was unsuccessful in getting a stud fit where the bolt wouldn't. Either the head or the timing casing needs to come off. So I will have to get another head gasket and make another trip. Got lots of other stuff done so it wasn't all bad.
I will definitely be getting a low coolant alarm.
Is this thermostat housing bolt a problem for all 300 tdi engines? I'm surprised I haven't read about it before. my engine is a 18L xxxxxxx engine which according to my research is a disco EDC manual engine. To the best of my knowledge my engine doesn't have EDC.

Regards

Jarrod

[langy]

About the bottom bolts for the thermostat housing: There is a chance that you or the PO used the wrong (longer) bolts - I vividly recall that I have replaced that gasket in situ- it was PITA and I had to cut up and modify a spanner to do it - but it was do able. ( Just checking that you are installing the bolts first and then sliding the housing down on them..)

[scanman]

it is very doable without pulling the head or timing case, thats why the lower 2 holes on the housing are slotted.

[wrinklearthur]

About the bottom bolts for the thermostat housing: There is a chance that you or the PO used the wrong (longer) bolts - I vividly recall that I have replaced that gasket in situ- it was PITA and I had to cut up and modify a spanner to do it - but it was do able. ( Just checking that you are installing the bolts first and then sliding the housing down on them..)

Do as Langy has said.

I have been caught the same way and worked around the problem and I ended up doing exactly what Langy has posted there, never a a problem with it since.
Get a, soup-a-sheep 13 mm open ender / ring, cut the end out of the ring end just enough gap to force the gap across the shank of the bolt and away you go.
Then repeat after me, for each movement of the spanner, "I will in the future put this on before installing the head".
.

[Judo]

Also, don't think it was mentioned earlier in the thread... I believe you will need to do the valve clearances after fitting the head. Take some feeler gauges with you.

[jarrods]

Hi guys,

The problem is not doing the bolts up but getting the lower left into the head without the thermostat housing in place. I know thermostat housing has slotted holes and is slipped over the bottom bolts and the done up. According to microcat the bolts I have are the correct type and length. M8 x 25mm with a flanged head. 3 are fine but the lower left is hitting on the casting of the timing case. I cut down a bolt so that it just cleared the casing but it only leaves about 4 turns in the head which is not enough.

I have photos to show this but can't (or don't know how) to upload them from an iPad. I can email them if anyone is interested otherwise it will have to wait until I get home.

Regards

Jarrod

[wrinklearthur]

And I don't know how to post incognito !

Grind a little bit off where the bolt does up, a bit = about two threads worth. :angel:

Disclaimer: I didn't post this ! honest

[langy]

It's not the timing case - it's the ancillary bracket, in particular the back of the housing for the tensioner. Unless there is something weird, you could grind a little bit off that webbing to fit the bolt in.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=44536&d=1331610884

Take the tensioner off and the temperature sensor out so you have room to move about.

[jarrods]

Hi Langy,

There is a bulge in the casting behind the tensioner shaft. This is where it is hitting. You can just make it out in your photo. It will be clearer whe I get my photo up as there is nothing in the way. I'd have to grind a air bit away to get it to clear

Thanks

Jarrod

[jarrods]

Hi Guys,

Here are the photos. The short bolt is the longest it can be without fouling on the timing case. Unless anybody has any other ideas I can't see any other option than to pull the head.


Regards

Jarrod

[wrinklearthur]

Hi Guys,

Here are the photos. The short bolt is the longest it can be without fouling on the timing case. Unless anybody has any other ideas I can't see any other option than to pull the head.

Hi Jarrod

My last posting about this has disappeared into cyberspace! :o

Do that bolt the other way, by pulling off the ancillary bracket and replace the 'P' gasket at the same time, a lot less work and expense than taking the head off again.
.

[roverrescue]

although i agree with arthur that I would pull the front case to check on the P gasket and look at the rubber band timing belt...

to get you out of a bind - will and M8 stud sueeze in better than a bolt? Then run on a thinned nut? Just to get you home? Or just chuck in your modded bolt it will hold water to get you home - then check the timing belt etc once home.

S