DeanoH's Defender

[DeanoH]

The story so far

Bought a 1995 130 single cab 300 Tdi ex 'farm ute'. pretty run down but no obvious major issues.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/666.jpg

Engine flush, new oil, filters etc., fix lights (originally none working), new steering arm ball joint, upper panhard rubber and bolt, tighten steering uni pinch bolt, replace rear axle ball joint and upper 'A frame' arm bolts and ready for a test run.

Half hour run on windy dirt roads, skite to brother in law about 'new' Landy. All good so far handles well and plenty of go, until the return trip.
On the return trip major power loss in fits and spurts becoming more frequent a time goes on. Low fuel/sucking air?, fuel gauge shows just below half and put 15 litres in prior to run, so don't think so. Blowing smoke when 'low power', seems to be grey/blue can't really tell as approaching dusk and concentrating on windy road but definitely smoking. Didn't think I'd make it home but did. Straight into shed.
Nothing obviously broken, BUT intermittent rattling? noise in neutral with clutch released, goes away when depress clutch pedal or when increase revs ? Strange, at first discount as minor clutch issue to work out later but not so sure. A bit hard to isolate noise, reasonably loud and engine 'shuddering', like missing, when happening. Not knocking scarry bearing engine about to blow up noise but definitely not supposed to be there.
Crook turbo ?, I've never had a crook one before so am guessing.
A bit of diagnostic assistance needed here please.

Deano:(

[bcj]

did u drain sedimentor, if farm ute might it be full of water or sludge

brett

110 300tdi

[justinc]

The story so far

Bought a 1995 130 single cab 300 Tdi ex 'farm ute'. pretty run down but no obvious major issues.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/666.jpg

Engine flush, new oil, filters etc., fix lights (originally none working), new steering arm ball joint, upper panhard rubber and bolt, tighten steering uni pinch bolt, replace rear axle ball joint and upper 'A frame' arm bolts and ready for a test run.

Half hour run on windy dirt roads, skite to brother in law about 'new' Landy. All good so far handles well and plenty of go, until the return trip.
On the return trip major power loss in fits and spurts becoming more frequent a time goes on. Low fuel/sucking air?, fuel gauge shows just below half and put 15 litres in prior to run, so don't think so. Blowing smoke when 'low power', seems to be grey/blue can't really tell as approaching dusk and concentrating on windy road but definitely smoking. Didn't think I'd make it home but did. Straight into shed.
Nothing obviously broken, BUT intermittent rattling? noise in neutral with clutch released, goes away when depress clutch pedal or when increase revs ? Strange, at first discount as minor clutch issue to work out later but not so sure. A bit hard to isolate noise, reasonably loud and engine 'shuddering', like missing, when happening. Not knocking scarry bearing engine about to blow up noise but definitely not supposed to be there.
Crook turbo ?, I've never had a crook one before so am guessing.
A bit of diagnostic assistance needed here please.

Deano:(

take filler cap off, any excessive pressure?

jc

[Summiitt]

Mmm, clutch noise is probably just a thrust bearing with a little wear in it, my tdi 110 ute has made that noise for the last 70,000odd ks, with no issues, will wait till clutch needs replacing to fix it. As for other noises, could be a crook injector pump, or a fuel issue if the vehicle has been sitting? Pull your new fuel filter off and check if any dirty fuel has been picked up.

[Judo]

From memory blue smoke = burnt oil? (I'm sure JC will correct me if I'm wrong. ;) )

Check dip stick level? Oil getting in somewhere... turbo manifold? head gasket? :confused:

[DeanoH]

Thanks for the response, did all of the above, fuel filter OK, a couple of tiny black flecks in good clean diesel, same with sedimenter. No water tank pressure but it was 12 hours later I checked.
Thinking overnight, don't think it's turbo as there would be no boost at idle/fast idle, and it was 'missing' at these speeds after run and parked in shed. I think that makes sense :confused:.
Checked water and oil levels. Oil level perfect and crystal clear. Removed intercooler hoses and checked, oily film but not 'wet' with oil.
Water level was down about half a litre but this may not be significant as I'd refilled coolant and hadn't run so may have been air lock settling down, but maybe not. Plastic reservoir tank leaks slightly on seam, but I wouldn't have thought this much.

Possible hairline crack in head?, heats up and sucks water in, would this give major power loss and smoke that may have been steam ? This would have to be on the inlet side of the inlet valve as otherwise compression would blow back into the waterjacket and blow the top off radiator/coolant bottle etc ? No experience here, is this a possibility/probability ?

Anyway started and ran OK this morning, drove a couple of K's with no problem, header tank had pressure but 'normal' I would have said. :confused:

Deano:)

[Judo]

To be honest I'm getting out of my league now, but your comments sounds solid to me.

To be only an issue at hot and "missing" symptoms, does tend to point to head/cylinder. I hear TDI's "run hot", but I can tell you when I broke down with head gasket problems (in Gippsland actually), I could not get the engine to overheat, run hot or show any signs of a problem by revving it while stationary. I had to be driving for a few kms before it got hot enough to be an issue.

If you think coolant is escaping within the head, then I can't see how air pressure wouldn't be going back into the coolant lines. Therefore:

You can leave the expansion tank cap off, rev the engine by hand at the engine bay and watch for bubbles in the expansion tank. Normal conditions, coolant continuously bubbles back into the tank, but NOT air. If there is air bubbling up in the expansion tank, you've found a problem.

**DO THIS COLD** You could also unscrew the top plug on the thermostat housing and see if coolant is flush to the top, or if there is air. Someone else can comment if you're able to do this while the engine is warm, but I suspect that's a bad idea!



P.S. Header tank by workshop manual has up to 15 psi pressure (which is quite a bit I think!). So it is normal to have some pressure there after running for a while.

[DeanoH]

To be honest I'm getting out of my league now, but your comments sounds solid to me.



Thanks for the response, and for my money 'a REAL expert is one who knows their limitations' and isn't afraid to admit it.



T

If you think coolant is escaping within the head, then I can't see how air pressure wouldn't be going back into the coolant lines. Therefore:



I havn't had much to do with diesel engines, let alone intercooled turbo ones over the years but plenty to do with petrol engines. I never even considered a cracked head last night otherwise I would have done as you suggest.
What you understand about coolant into combustion chamber / pressure into waterjacket as a two way street holds true if the 'leak' is into the combustion chamber.
If the 'leak' is in the space before the inlet valve then symptoms can be a bit different. When the inlet valve is open coolant is sucked into the combustion chamber by a mixture of the water jacket pressure (15psi) forcing coolant into the manifold space combined with the action of the downward moving piston sucking the coolant in. On the compression, firing and exhaust stroke the inlet valve is closed thus preventing / limiting pressurising of the water jacket.
Not all that uncommon in petrol engines but I've no comparable experience with intercooled turbo diesels but can't see why this cannot be the case.
Not that I'm hoping it is mind you:eek:.

Deano:)

[Judo]

Thanks for the response, and for my money 'a REAL expert is one who knows their limitations' and isn't afraid to admit it.


:) And after so much discussion now, I'm really curious to find out what the problem is!



I havn't had much to do with diesel engines, let alone intercooled turbo ones over the years but plenty to do with petrol engines. I never even considered a cracked head last night otherwise I would have done as you suggest.
What you understand about coolant into combustion chamber / pressure into waterjacket as a two way street holds true if the 'leak' is into the combustion chamber.
If the 'leak' is in the space before the inlet valve then symptoms can be a bit different. When the inlet valve is open coolant is sucked into the combustion chamber by a mixture of the water jacket pressure (15psi) forcing coolant into the manifold space combined with the action of the downward moving piston sucking the coolant in. On the compression, firing and exhaust stroke the inlet valve is closed thus preventing / limiting pressurising of the water jacket.
Not all that uncommon in petrol engines but I've no comparable experience with intercooled turbo diesels but can't see why this cannot be the case.
Not that I'm hoping it is mind you:eek:.

Deano:)

OK, makes sense. Not sure how to troubleshoot that one! I guess that means the only place you can look for coolant is in the cylinder and the exhaust? Take an injector out and turn the engine over? Look for coolant in the exhaust? :eek: Maybe not....

My knowledge has been exhausted. :(

[Judo]

Ahhhhhh what the hell, I'll have a crack. :D :D

Disconnect fuel solenoid.
Take exhaust blanking plate off. (Where EGT gauge's are installed on a 300TDI)
Turn engine over with ignition.
Check exhaust for liquid.
:confused:

[DeanoH]

take filler cap off, any excessive pressure?

jc

Watch this space.

Will do a similiar run tomorrow (Saturday) to see what happens. I'm beginning to think head crack opening up when hot, but am only 'guessing'. I'll take a tube of silver seal just in case. No problems at all driving under no load or running around paddocks or stationary running. Does this scenario sound familiar for this engine ?, shame really goes very well otherwise.
'Off with its head' I suppose or too early to say ?

Deano:)

[DeanoH]

Did 200 Km today, up and down the highway with no problems.:confused:
Did manage to isolate a couple of oil leaks though (oil cooler hoses) so wasn't a total loss.
I'll put this 'problem' aside for now and concentrate on roadworthy. Nearly there, steering, suspension, lights all done just brakes to check, vacuum pump to overhaul and oil leaks to fix and should be there.
Then comes the 'optional' stuff, timing belt kit, hoses, belt etc.

Deano:)

[LowRanger]

I would be very surprised if the symptoms you listed were caused by a cracked head.
I would be more inclined to look for a split or not seated intercooler or turbo hose,or a soft intercooler hose that had sucked in(very common problem) or you just had a poor dose of fuel pass through the system,it doesn't take very much!!!Another thought is to check the fuel cutoff solenoid wire for a good connection,a poor connection can mean intermittent operation over bumpy roads,leading to what appears a lack of power,but is caused by rapid intermittent power connection to the fuel solenoid.

[flagg]

I would be more inclined to look for a split or not seated intercooler or turbo hose,or a soft intercooler hose that had sucked in

This was my first thought. Sudden change in fuel / air mix will cause the smoke.

[DeanoH]

I hope you're right about the intercooler hoses, they look original. The right angle turbo outlet hose is very soft. I'll have a look at the fuel cut off solenoid tomorrow. I did think of this as (one of many possibilities) a potential culprit as the symptom is total loss of power with no accelerator response at all but havn't checked it yet. Is this a common fault ?
I wasn't game to stop when the 'fault' was occuring, I just wanted to get home and put it in the shed. Didn't think I'd make it for a while, fortunately it was 'downhill' all the way home, and definitely getting worse as time went on, another couple of K's or a bit of up hill and I reckon I would have been stuck.
The difference between the windy undulating dirt run and the highway run would be that the turbo, I guess, would be working harder on the 'country' run in which I didn't drive it hard but didn't molly coddle it either, had to be on top of things so as not to 'go off' the turbo.
Thanks for the support.

An unrelated question. The workshop manual and owner manual both specify ATF for the gearbox. I've a feeling that I've read somewhere (on this forum) that this specification has changed to something a bit 'stronger'. Is this right?

Deano:)

[Judo]

An unrelated question. The workshop manual and owner manual both specify ATF for the gearbox. I've a feeling that I've read somewhere (on this forum) that this specification has changed to something a bit 'stronger'. Is this right?

Deano:)

Assuming it's an R380, yep there was a TSB at some point that recommended changing to MTF. I've run Penrite manual gear 70 in mine for a while now and I have no problems to report. It was the first time I changed the oil, so I have no idea what was in it before. Seems just as good. My understanding is ATF will provide smoother changes all around, however MTF is better for the life of the gearbox but can be difficult to shift when it's cold.

There was a poll on here about ATF vs MTF preference but I can't find it.... I believe results were about 50/50....of course! Plenty of thread on the discussion of ATF vs MTF...

[DeanoH]

Bloody hell !! :eek:, fair bit of a change from ATF to SAE 70. I would have thought say, Castrol Transmax M or maybe a monograde SAE 30.
I'll have a hunt for the thread but don't usually have much luck finding stuff this way. :confused:
Thanks
Deano:)

[Judo]

Gear oil 70 is not equal to engine oil 70 though... Different scale or something...

Searching forums is rubbish. Using google is way better. To search for only AULRO pages on google try, "site:aulro.com xxxx". It sure beats the built in forum search feature!

[DeanoH]

Found the thread and am now more confused than ever. Rick certainly seems to be on top of all things oil.

The short story seems to be

a/. sell the kids into slavery ;), and use the proceeds to buy Castrol Syntrans at a mind blowing $30+ per litre.
b/. sell only one child and use Penrite Sin Manual trans at around $15 per litre.
c/. use Nulon Smooth Shift 75w/85 at ? per litre.
or
d/. chase up my local garage who use Fuchs oil and get some Titan SuperGear 75w/85.

I replaced the Castrol EPX 85/90 in the Oka's Spicer gearbox with the Nulon some time ago and reckon it lives up to it's name 'smooth shift'. So might check this out. Got the original 4 litres for free so may be in for a shock:eek:.

Deano:)

[Judo]

a/. sell the kids into slavery ;), and use the proceeds to buy Castrol Syntrans at a mind blowing $30+ per litre.
b/. sell only one child and use Penrite Sin Manual trans at around $15 per litre.


These options have always been ruled out for me. No kids. :D



c/. use Nulon Smooth Shift 75w/85 at ? per litre.
or
d/. chase up my local garage who use Fuchs oil and get some Titan SuperGear 75w/85.

I replaced the Castrol EPX 85/90 in the Oka's Spicer gearbox with the Nulon some time ago and reckon it lives up to it's name 'smooth shift'. So might check this out. Got the original 4 litres for free so may be in for a shock:eek:.

Deano:)

These all sound like similar products to me - gear oils around 70w - 85w. The higher you go, the more likely to have issues at cold. And Castrol, Penrite, whatever, you shouldn't need to spend too much for these type of gear oils IMO.

I bought my gear oil from Moto Fluid not long ago and was cheaper than all the auto stores I checked.

Product | Manual Gear Oil 75 | MotoFluid | Penrite Oil Shop | Complete Classic Car Care | Buy Penrite Oil Online (http://www.motofluid.com/product/manual-gear-oil-75) <-- It even mentions Land Rover MTF94 - which is what the TBS specified when they changed from ATF to MTF.

Shipping cost was surprisingly OK considering the weight involved I thought...

[DeanoH]

The Defender I bought used to run well, now it runs like an absolute dog. Unless I'm just unlucky and something has just failed all on its own, I've done something very wrong. I reckon the latter is most logical.:(
The engine starts easily and runs well at rest, doesn't blow smoke or do anything silly. Pulled strongly on test drive no problems.
Engine wise I've changed all filters, added diesel and flushed engine (twice) with clean oil and engine flush additive before re-filling with Castrol RX Super.
In fact its so clean (inside) that it is very difficult to read the oil level on the dip stick. This led to the only thing that I can think of that I did wrong, I over filled the engine oil by about 2.5 litres and ran the engine for probably half an hour or so before parking it in the shed. The next morning I found that I'd over filled and drained some oil out.
What damage (if any) could this cause ? is this my problem ?

Symptoms.
The engine still starts and runs from cold with no problem. I took it for a run last week, about 20 Km on windy undulating dirt road and it ran like a dream. Coming back on the same route it started to have intermittent major power loss, no throttle control and was blowing light blue grey smoke. Managed to limp home with the problem getting worse.

Replaced intercooler hoses, the lower short hose was loose and delaminated, thought I'd found my problem, but no.

Went for a short run (2 Km) today and had same power loss and blue grey smoke issue, problem is getting worse.
Parked up in shed, engine seemed to be fuel starved ? when idling when hot, rough idle, poor or nil throttle response at times, no smoke though. Removed cooling pressure cap, plenty of action with water flowing through and steam etc, no 'vesuvius' or overpressure. If I hold revs at about 2000 and fill coolant reservoir to the absolute top to look for bubbles I do get a small 'plop' like a leaking head gasket about once every couple of minutes, not good , but hardly enough to account for whats hapenning I would think :confused:.
Oil level seems fine, maybe 2mm down, but I'd just changed the leaky oil cooler hoses so that might be why. Engine isn't breathing when I remove oil filler cap.
Have I busted anything by running with too much oil, fuel pump diaphragm perhaps, or something worse. Removed fuel filter and level was down about 1cm from top. Fuel system pumps up OK by hand, fuel squirts out of bleed screw on top of fuel filter housing, but doesn't pump up hard, can't feel any back pressure in the fuel system when pumping by hand.

What have I done ?


Deano:(

[DeanoH]

Disconnected the waste gate and connected pressure gauge all is good, will check, not a major problem :)

Deano:)

[wrinklearthur]

Hi DeanoH

If the engine is not pulling at speed, then it's most likely getting air or gas into the fuel somewhere. Have a look at this thread.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/150061-confirming-my-diagnosis.html

Have you disturbed any of the banjo bolts?
They are the ones that pass through the ends of the fuel lines on the filter housing and injector pump etc, if so the washers may need annealing before they can seat again.
To anneal copper, heat it it to a dull red and then drop it straight away into cold water.
Don't get the copper too hot as the surface will bubble or distort.
.

[DeanoH]

Haven't touched any of 'em. Promise.:)
Todays saga, reckoned I had a fuel or turbo problem or both.
Measured fuel pressure and flow, boy has LR got the specs messed up in the manual.
Fuel lift pump pressure 42-55 Kgf/cm squared (3-4 lbf/in squared) @1800rpm.
Only problem 1Kgf/cm squared = 14 psi. When you do the maths it doesn't work out.:confused:
Measured @ 50-60 Kpa which is about 7 psi which I reckon is about right inspite of what LR reckon. Flow was OK.

Next I wanted to measure the turbo boost so I removed the waste gate connection and connected a pressure gauge on a 2 metre hose into the cab.
LR specify 0,93-1,07 bar (13.5-15.5 lbf/in squared) for this and got the maths right this time:).

Works out at about 100 kpa which I kept under for about 20 Km with no issue, ran well. I can only assume there's something wrong with the waste gate so will check tomorrow.
I reckon this could be my problem as the T piece on the turbo outlet feeds the injector pump and the waste gate so a problem here will affect both, I think.
Thanks for the link, posted there and BK replied which is good. Have to be careful here not to multi post. Hanging offence they tell me.:o

Only did 20 Km as clutch failed and had to get towed home!:mad: but at least I've got one problem sorted (hopefully).

As an aside, LR, not to be outdone with inconsistent pressure units quotes injector pressure in atmospheres. So for pressure they use Kgf/cm squared whatever the hell they might be, bar and atmospheres. Not a Kpa to be seen. I wonder if they use Ergs for power and Kiderkirkins for volume ?

Deano:)