TD 5 cutting out during water crossings

[wayne]

Hi Guys,
I have just got back from a Simpson Desert trip. At Poeppels corner I went through a shallow water crossing (axle depth) and the vehicle died in the middle of the crossing. I have peviously done numerous deep water crossing with this vehicle and have had no issues.

I will try and explain everything in detail.
Before I left for the trip the following work was done by a reputable workshop.
Gearbox rebuild, Fuel block, front diff, some work on the transfer case.

I entered the water at around 15km an hour for a bit of momentum, when I was half way through the engine stalled and would not Restart. I put the vehicle in first gear low range and drove it out on the starter.

once I was out of the mud I checked Aircleaner and made sure I hadnt sucked in any water.
next minute the horn starts blasting and will not stop, even with the key out of the ignition. I pulled the horn fuse out and it just kept going. I eventually unplugged it just to shut it up.

Once i had a bit of silence I did a basic check of all plugs and anything electrical. I could hear the fuel pump running when the ignition was on.

I asked my wife to turn the engine over while I stood at the exhaust and there was greyish black smoke coming from the exhaust which to me indicated fuel was getting there. after numerous attempts the vehicle eventually started spluttering back to life, mifiring and barely running. over the next hour it progressively got better and eventually it started running normally again.

I strongly suspect that a plug or sensor has not been replaced correctly and got full of mud. I have it booked for the second of June at M.R Automotive but was wondering if anyone had any ideas.

This has me nervous as I do a lot of deep water crossings in my travels.

The vehicle ran perfectly for the next 3000 km, but I did not do any more water crossings.

Cheers Wayne

[Psimpson7]

Check for damage to the wiring loom to the throttle pedal or crank position sensor loom.

I had a very similar issue that took 2 years to solve. One of the screws holding the dash in was screwed through the wiring loom to the throttle. When you drove through water, it got sprayed up by the wheels, soaked the back of the footwell etc and the water shorted out the damaged wiring, immediately killing the throttle. The engine didn't stop though.

The only time I have had it actually stop was when I filled the ECU with water.

In all likeleyhood, IMO something will have been unintentionally damaged during the work that was completed.

Have you had the codes read? They may not help. It didnt on mine but it would be worth doing.

[goingbush]

You could do a test by having the car running and start spraying areas with a hose & try to isolate the problem area that way.
I'd start by pouring water on the crank angle sensor, on the bell housing behind the fuel regulator. its hard to see under a bunch of hoses and pipes so rarely gets checked

[awabbit6]

My guess is crank sensor also.
You stated that the fuel pressure regulator had been changed and the crank sensor is down behind it on the top of the bell housing. I'd pull the plug to the crank sensor and give it a clean before putting it back on. It's not easy to get to though ...
This doesn't explain the horn's behavior though. Was it the horn that is on the firewall? This is the one for the security system (I think ...)

[strangy]

Another vote for CPS. But damage to the loom is a real possibility. Particularly since the gearbox has been out. Leaking Fuel regs drip onto the CPS loom and plug making the wires brittle. If this has been ongoing, just unplugging the CPS (as in a gearbox removal) is more than enought to break the insulation and allow any moisture to wreak havoc. The horn going off indicates water further into the system and maybe even getting into the ECU area. Ensure all Earth points have been correctly secured.

cheers

[SVX37]

I had a TD5 in my D2 Auto.

On one trip, I had 5 water crossings to go through up in the high country.

In the 3rd water crossing it stalled exactly as you described but without the horn issue. Just kept turning the ignition on to creep forward and stall again until I managed to get my self out.

Talk a few hours and it eventually rectified itself. (Dried itself out)

It was water in the ECU.

Basically, once the motor revved above 1500, it would cut out.

The cure, I sold it... as I never trusted it in a water crossing again.

The TD5 was a good car, but this is one of it's failings. There may be a mod you can do to overcome this?

[wayne]

Thanks for the replies.
I dropped off the ute at MR Automotive I hope they have a definitive answer to this issue.
I really love my 130 but if you cant trust it ??
The thing that is annoying me the most is I just started to trust modern motors that have ECU's etc. This has really shaken me, for the first time in my life I felt absolutely helpless, not being able to diagnose the issue.
My first instinct is to dump the TD5 for a 4bd1 turbo conversion and sell the TD5 motor.
Maybe I should just have a Bex and a lie down and wait to see what MR automotive have to say. ;)

[C H T]

[QUOTE=wayne;1711864]

[B]My first instinct is to dump the TD5 for a 4bd1 turbo conversion and sell the TD5 motor

A great idea

FWIW

C H T

[wayne]

Got A call from MR Automotive and they are unable to replicate the fault. They have done exhaustive checks on the vehicle. Hopefully they will call me tomorrow and tell me they have found the issue.

[Blknight.aus]

contamination on the flywheel or on the crank position sensor.

[PhilipA]

You had better get a V8.
They are quite good on water crossings if maintained properly.

Regards Philip A

48671

[wayne]

Too true nothing a bit of WD40 cant fix :p

[wayne]

Hi Dave,
It is seriously looking that way. The mud I drove through was a soupy texture and obviously very salty as it was in a salt pan.
The question is can I trust it again? Will I be ok on a Cape york trip or will I end being crocodile poo when I abandon a stalled vehicle and have to swim???
This has really rattled me.
Cheers Wayne

[Blknight.aus]

cut the harness leg out and slpice in a new one, replace the sender and while its out have someone bar the engine over very slowly so you can inspect the toning area of the fly wheel. if its dirty, clean it carefully by swabbing and vaccing then replace the sender.


geting a nanocom or diag read out will let you know if you have a persistant crank sender problem. BUT make sure that you do it as a live clear with the engine running as its one of the fab 5 that usually turn up when you're staring the engine.