101 Ignition Switch

[101RRS]

I had to take the 101 in for its annual LPG certification and as usual on cold mornings it would not start right away - even with a squirt of Aerostart. So the engine had a bit of cranking on the starter - occasional kick but no go.

Now my system needs a little rest after it has been cranking a bit but is OK after a minute or so. This morning as I was in a rush I got the hand crank out and she fired and ran first go. Off to the mechanics for the inspection - no issues $45 later time to go.

Ignition on but no starter so out with the crank handle and start first go. Arrive home and the starter still does not work. Now I have not pulled it apart as yet but I suspect the ignition/starter switch. It does provide power to the ignition but when it has been cranking I suspect the switch gets hot and goes open circuit and has finally died.

I have had a look on Craddocks and Paddocks sites for 101 ignition switches but cannot find any listed =- so does anyone have an idea where I might be able to get a new switch if I need one - as I said I haven't started looking for the fault as yet (I would like it to be the starter solenoid as it is easier to replace than pulling the dash apart) but I suspect an ignition switch issue.

Thanks

Garry

[drifter]

551508 Land Rover 101 Forward Control Ignition Switch Petrol Engine | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/551508-Land-Rover-101-Forward-Control-Ignition-Switch-Petrol-Engine-/110885527626?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19d14ae04a)

Looks the same as the one I recently put in the Stage 1 - $33 from Melbourne. I have a used spare here if you want to try it.

You can get them here too: http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/1244/61/2/551508-IGNITION-SWITCH.html

and in their 101 section: http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/1244/4121/1/551508-IGNITION-SWITCH.html

101 Starter Relay: http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/1649/4049/1/589665-V8-STARTER-RELAY-12volt.html?limit=0 (http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/1649/4049/1/589665-V8-STARTER-RELAY-12volt.html?limit=0) (but it is the 12V one)

[101 Ron]

The ignition switch is a standard lucas switch used in lots of stuff.
The starter relay is behind the drivers seat and is abit hard to access though from the engine bay.
I Think the starter relay coil works at 12 volts??????
I would be checking for voltage drops eg
check battery cables and terminals.
check earth cable to chassis.
check earth cable from chassis to engine.
Check ignition fuse( It can look OK but the end of the fuse to the spring loaded holder can be high resistance.
Check all obivious pins and plugs .
While cranking you use a volt meter and with the voltmeter on a 1 volt setting measure across the suspect areas...ie neg battery terminal to earth and if you get more than a .2 volt reading that cable or connection is not the best.
measure with the volt meter pos battery terminal to igition switch pos while cranking and if more than .4 volt drop across all that wiring could indicate the problem is on the positive side etc.

[101RRS]

Thanks for that - can you crank your Stage 1 ??:)

[drifter]

Thanks for that - can you crank your Stage 1 ??:)

yup - but I don't need to - my ignition switch and starter relay are fine... :p

[101RRS]

Looked at a few things today and like most 101s mine seems to have a few mods in the wiring system.

Firstly I proved the issue is not with the starter or the solenoid by running power direct from the batteries and all works.

I have been reluctant to pull the ignition switch out as anything in the dash is a real pita - move one thing and something else is likely to disconnect. When poking around and moving the switch to the start position I could hear a relay operating under the dash - so power is definitely coming from the ignition switch - however the relay is not in the wiring diagram and on locating it, it was a really old and corroded. I can find the switched 24v on the start position but there is no 24v on the other side. I suspect this relay is a replacement for the starter relay that Ron mentioned that lives behind the drivers seat (and also as pita to get to). I put in a new relay but nothing worked. Not sure where this relay is getting it non existent 24v from but it is only a few inches from the fuse box so my guess it is from there and maybe one of the fuses has blown - again the fuse box is a pita to get at being up under dash on the inside nose cone. I have fired + ive 24v down the likely wires to the starter but no joy.

Tomorrow I will see where the wired to this relay goes/come from, check the fuses and see where we go - if all else fails I will just run new wiring but that may take a little while.

Did I say that the 101 is a pita to work on electrically and the dash area is also a pita.

Garry

[drifter]

Better results today, I hope.

[101RRS]

Nope - has been raining most of the day so went shopping instead.

[101RRS]

I give up - I cannot find why power is not getting to my starter solenoid when the ignition key is set to start. All I can assume is that there is an inline fuse somewhere in the starter line that has blown but I cannot find it. All obvious fuses are OK. The original starter relay is behind the drivers seat but is not connected so the wiring is modified but has me beat.

I have starter power at a kill switch I have so will run starter power from there and install a 24v 40a starter relay near where the original is and take the 24v power for the switched side of the starter relay from the continuous 24v positive side of the starter solenoid.

With all the jury rigs in my wiring I think a complete rewire is needed but will have to wait until major work is needed. At least I know what changes I have made and is logical to me but I am having problems following earlier changes.

Off to spend some money on electrical bits and bobs.

Garry

[101RRS]

Finally got it sorted - in all the starter power disappeared, the wipers stopped, the hazards stopped, the LPG cold start stopped, the tacho stopped and the reversing lights stopped and I developed a leak in the cooling system - not sure what was initially caused by the initial starter issue or by ferreting around with the wiring.

For the starter could not find the issue so i ran +ve power from the live side of the starter solenoid through a new 40amp starter relay (35 amp fuse) back to the starter solenoid - switching power for the relay was taken from the starter side of the immobiliser - all works now. I have no idea about the previous wiring was not in line with the wiring diagram.

Wipers stopped but was just a poor earth cause by playing with the wiring.

Hazards went dead - not sure why - no power which is not switched power - again wiring was not in accordance with wiring diagram so I took 24v from the main fuse box through a inline fuse to the hazard switch and all Ok.

LPG cold start stopped - caused by a short somewhere with the in line fuse near the battery blowing - put in a better fuse and all is OK.

The tacho stopped working but found it was caused by unpicking the LPG cold start wires which cause one of the wires to come off the coil (crappy connector) - all fixed.

The reversing lights stopped - no power to to the switch - again no idea why - is switched so maybe related to the original problem. Again no ideas why, I ran switched power from the CDL through a relay and ran a fused line from the active side of the starter solenoid for permanent power - so all fixed - finally.

There have clearly been major changes to the wiring which makes things a bit confusing. There are four main fuses in the system and only two continue to work - now have a lot of in line fuses - the original wiring has very few plain red wires so I have done most of mine in red +ive and black -ive so is obvious where I have been.

What I should have done and didn't was record the changes I have made - should have.

Stuee - make sure you record all your wiring.

Garry

[stuee]

Sounds like it was a mission Garry. I've settled on getting a Painless Wiring kit which actually has each circuit name printed along the length of the wire, as well as coming with a complete wiring diagram so I will hopefully have a good base to work from. Any circuit not covered in the standard loom I will run of the accessories circuit and draw up axillary diagrams. Just yet to find a good program to do that in. I will most likely consume a lot of beer making sure it all gets installed properly though :o

[lardy]

As stuee says painless wiring kit, I did the same although if you want to keep the six way lights etc you can by brand new looms for the 101 from Britain

[101 Ron]

For the Alvis stalwart I am playing with, to over come the 24/12 volt wiring issuses I purchased one of these.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/889.jpg
Cost me $63 dollars delivered from the local auto parts place and rated for 30 amps which should be enough to power everything one would need 12 volt wise.
It may be the way to go and dump that extra 12 volt altenator and keep things simple if you feel like a big rewire on your 101 in the future.

[101RRS]

I bought a 60amp 24v to 12v battery charger for my 101. One of the decisions when I finally get around to getting the 4.6litre in is whether to ditch the 12v alternator and just run with the battery charger - I need to charge an ancillary battery so the use of a battery charger. I have a couple of cheap 30amp 24v to 12v converters in my spare parts just in case something happened to the secondary 12v system.

If you are not going to charge a secondary battery then a reducer will work fine.

Garry

[iain reed]

oh the joys of british wiring we have all been there even in the desert
dont forget not to let the smoke out ... very hard to get back in
go the 4.6 !!! good times will follow

good to hear that you are on top of it