Superior Engineering Superflex arms for Rovers.

[LowRanger]

I thought it would have come down to the Nissan bushes used. The arms main body is 32mm wide, os they will fit the 40mm early mount. The bush part of the arm would be determind by the Nissan bush....

So how wide is the Nissan Bush?

Pin end: If I have it correct, it seems the only difference between LR early and late arms is the pin dia, NOT the chassis mount. So, that should mean the arms bolt in there also.

Serg.
You don't quite have the correct measurements;)
The main body of the arm is 32mm as you describe,but where the bushes for the diff end mount,that mounting point is close to 50mm,so doesn't fit the early model diff housings.This increase in diameter is due to the way that the area for the bushes is increased for added support and strength.I reiterate that these arms are not your average lightweight mass produced replacement arms sold by other companies.The chassis end mounts will fit no problems.

I have been in discussion with Greg regarding the earlier narrow bushed arms as fitted to early Rangies and 110's,and threw some figures around,but this will require a complete new arm and bush setup,and not sure how much of a viable proposition this will be.I also have a vested interest in this ,as my 130 has early diff housings and narrow arms,and is just busting for a set to suit.

[LowRanger]

Hi



If these fit my earlier 85 County 110 I'll get a set. That front end flex pictured is impressive.

I have heard that the 110's have a different width bushes at the diff end and was wondering if anyone knows if these will still fit. The part nos are different when you order bushes.

Clive
Re my earlier post,at the moment the arms that are currently made won't fit to your early narrow bush diff housing.If you stay in tune with this thread,I am sure you will hear if there is any change to the situation.

And yes the flex is impressive in the flesh as well:D:cool:

[clive22]

Thanks all -

I'll measure mine up when I get home.

In theory for the three normal mounts if the earlier one are wider than I should be able to space out the difference -

Does anyone know the difference in dimensions (internal) between the older wider and newer brackets?

Does anyone have a pic of the arms installed? In particular how the bolt on flex plate fixes to the diff bracket.

Thanks

Clive

[Presto]

Thanks all -

I'll measure mine up when I get home.

In theory for the three normal mounts if the earlier one are wider than I should be able to space out the difference -

Does anyone know the difference in dimensions (internal) between the older wider and newer brackets?

Does anyone have a pic of the arms installed? In particular how the bolt on flex plate fixes to the diff bracket.

Thanks

Clive

Clive,

The earlier bushes/mounts are narrower, so these arms won't fit, as the tube used for the 50mm wide bushes, irrelevant of the bush itself, is too wide for your mounts.

As Wayne said, the earlier Rovers will need different arms & bushes.

Regards
Grant

[uninformed]

Serg.
You don't quite have the correct measurements;)
The main body of the arm is 32mm as you describe,but where the bushes for the diff end mount,that mounting point is close to 50mm,so doesn't fit the early model diff housings.This increase in diameter is due to the way that the area for the bushes is increased for added support and strength.I reiterate that these arms are not your average lightweight mass produced replacement arms sold by other companies.The chassis end mounts will fit no problems.

I have been in discussion with Greg regarding the earlier narrow bushed arms as fitted to early Rangies and 110's,and threw some figures around,but this will require a complete new arm and bush setup,and not sure how much of a viable proposition this will be.I also have a vested interest in this ,as my 130 has early diff housings and narrow arms,and is just busting for a set to suit.

Yes Wayne, I had my LR measurements wrong. The later type being approx 50mm wide at the axle mount.

But I still dont see how that changes what I said. The main body of the arm does not change thickness (AFAIK), so it comes down to the metal bush welded to the arm and the Nissan bush itself.

I can not see how making the metal bush wider than the Nissan bush is of any advantage, so agian that brings us back to the Nissan bush.

How wide is a Nissan bush? WIll it fit in between the early type axle mount?

Again, I have never questioned the strength of these arms.

[clive22]

Thanks all

OK Then

Responses came in whilst I wrote. Anyways thanks for the answer.

Looks like I'll have to wait and see what happens.

Clive

[uninformed]

Clive,

The earlier bushes/mounts are narrower, so these arms won't fit, as the tube used for the 50mm wide bushes, irrelevant of the bush itself, is too wide for your mounts.

As Wayne said, the earlier Rovers will need different arms & bushes.

Regards
Grant

Are you saying the metal bush welded in the arm is wider than the Nissan bush?

[Presto]

Are you saying the metal bush welded in the arm is wider than the Nissan bush?

No, I'm saying the tube welded to arm (lets call it a 'bush housing'), is wider than the earlier arm mounts, so they simply won't fit no matter which bush you put in them.

Does anyone know the width of the earlier bushes to be absolutely sure?
The tube measures 40.6mm.

[uninformed]

No, I'm saying the tube welded to arm (lets call it a 'bush housing'), is wider than the earlier arm mounts, so they simply won't fit no matter which bush you put in them.

Does anyone know the width of the earlier bushes to be absolutely sure?
The tube measures 40.6mm.

Ok, ill try and join the dots since it seems to be missed :D

If the Nissan bush would fit the early LR axle mount, then all Superior Engineering have to do, is make a different weld in metal bush for the early vehicles.

I would have thought that for correct bush installation, the crush tube in the Nissan bush be the part that is pulled up hard in the axle mount. NOT the arm itself. The arm is not going to be square to the housing in cross articulaton so needs some room "twist"

So, again, is the Nissan bush the same, narrower or wider than the arm itself? If they are not narrow enough to fit a early axle mount, then not only a new metal weld in bush would have to be made, but a whole new suspension bush would have to be sourced or made....

[Presto]

The main arm is 32mm wide
The Bush Housing Tube is 40.6mm wide
The Bush is 50mm wide

Clear as mud? :)

[uninformed]

The main arm is 32mm wide
The Bush Housing Tube is 40.6mm wide
The Bush is 50mm wide

Clear as mud? :)

Thanks Presto!

Bush Housing Tube = metal bush welded to arm, this is 40.6mm wide and looks to be about the same as the outer shell of the Nissan bush

The Bush = Nissan bush, this is 50mm wide at the crush tube.

Ok, so finally the Nissan bush measurement comes out :D And no, the Nissan bush wont fit in a early axle mount. AFAIK those mounts are 45mm wide (in between) or maybe even less?

So I wonder if you could just get some Nissan bushes and turn down the crush tube in a lathe??? Of coarse the bracketry for the SF arm would not bolt straight up either as its designed for the later, wider axle mount. But it could get some early vehicles running the Superior non SF arms with a better bush and still gain some flex...

[Presto]

Ok, so finally the Nissan bush measurement comes out :D

Sorry, I assumed you had read post #250 above! ;)

Either way, for the flex, the older narrower mounts will probably need more room than the bush housing tube (40.6mm) will provide!?

As mentioned above, it's up to SE whether there's a market for the older style or not.

[Bush65]

The dimension inside the radius arm mounts on the axle is:


47mm for early RRC and 110
51mm for Nissan Patrol

[uninformed]

Sorry, I assumed you had read post #250 above! ;)

Either way, for the flex, the older narrower mounts will probably need more room than the bush housing tube (40.6mm) will provide!?

As mentioned above, it's up to SE whether there's a market for the older style or not.

no, you were typing as I was, and got in just before me. My response went to the next page so I never saw yours.

[uninformed]

Late model (1998) 110

RA at bush 44mm wide
Bush outer shell approx 44mm wide
Bush crush tube 54mm wide
Axle mount 54mm (in between)

Since I have been talking about the SE arms having Nissan bushes, I must say looking at them closer they appear to be their own made bush (holey type) I take it they are the same external/internal dimensions as a Nissan GQ/GU and could use those if need be?

[LowRanger]

Yes Wayne, I had my LR measurements wrong. The later type being approx 50mm wide at the axle mount.

But I still dont see how that changes what I said. The main body of the arm does not change thickness (AFAIK), so it comes down to the metal bush welded to the arm and the Nissan bush itself.

I can not see how making the metal bush wider than the Nissan bush is of any advantage, so agian that brings us back to the Nissan bush.

How wide is a Nissan bush? WIll it fit in between the early type axle mount?

Again, I have never questioned the strength of these arms.

The outer shell of the Nissan bush is wider than the 32mm width of the arm,this is the reason that the arm have the added width added at the mounting points of the bush.So the arm is not wider than the bush,it is made to be flush with the outer shell of the bush.

[LowRanger]

Late model (1998) 110

RA at bush 44mm wide
Bush outer shell approx 44mm wide
Bush crush tube 54mm wide
Axle mount 54mm (in between)

Since I have been talking about the SE arms having Nissan bushes, I must say looking at them closer they appear to be their own made bush (holey type) I take it they are the same external/internal dimensions as a Nissan GQ/GU and could use those if need be?

Might need to look a little closer Serg.
They are genuine Nissan bushes;)

[LowRanger]

Ok, ill try and join the dots since it seems to be missed :D

If the Nissan bush would fit the early LR axle mount, then all Superior Engineering have to do, is make a different weld in metal bush for the early vehicles.

I would have thought that for correct bush installation, the crush tube in the Nissan bush be the part that is pulled up hard in the axle mount. NOT the arm itself. The arm is not going to be square to the housing in cross articulaton so needs some room "twist"

So, again, is the Nissan bush the same, narrower or wider than the arm itself? If they are not narrow enough to fit a early axle mount, then not only a new metal weld in bush would have to be made, but a whole new suspension bush would have to be sourced or made....

Serg

The whole idea of arms for earlier models has been discussed,and unfortunately there is no other way than different width arms and custom made bushes,along with the inherent problems that that brings,would need to be manufactured.As I have previously mentioned,I have 1 vehicle with the early setup and one with the later setup so have been able to reference all the required measurements and have had discussions re these matters,although not at any great length at this point in time.

[uninformed]

The outer shell of the Nissan bush is wider than the 32mm width of the arm,this is the reason that the arm have the added width added at the mounting points of the bush.So the arm is not wider than the bush,it is made to be flush with the outer shell of the bush.

Thats what I was getting at, meaning that if the 32mm arm was narrow enough then it just the metal bush and suspension bush that woud need sorting. At that point I did not know the max width of the Nissan bush at crush tube or the width of the arm at bush. But it certainly isnt the 50mm I thought you were saying it was :D




Might need to look a little closer Serg.
They are genuine Nissan bushes;)

I have googled Nissan bushes and seen them for sale on Ebay (genuine) they did not have the holes in them. On SE own site they list a bush for their Nissan RAs that is $84 for ONE! I figured that above normal genuine Nissan price.

I could well be wrong :confused:




Serg

The whole idea of arms for earlier models has been discussed,and unfortunately there is no other way than different width arms and custom made bushes,along with the inherent problems that that brings,would need to be manufactured.As I have previously mentioned,I have 1 vehicle with the early setup and one with the later setup so have been able to reference all the required measurements and have had discussions re these matters,although not at any great length at this point in time.

So at even 32mm main body, you feel this too wide for the 47mm axle mount when articulating? I would have thought that enough clearance. Bringing us back to just the metal bush and the suspension bush to sort...but still an issue if nothing off the shelf?

[Bush65]

...

I have googled Nissan bushes and seen them for sale on Ebay (genuine) they did not have the holes in them. ...
AFAIK the Patrol radius arm bushes were solid rubber in the early GQ and changed to 'holey' bushes at some later stage. I don't know what year the change was made, or if it was only when the GU came out, but 'holey' bushes are stock in GU's.

In my bushie I have a stock GU arm on one side and a SE Superflex arm in the other side, and the bushes in both look identical to my eye.

Similar with Landcruisers, solid rubber in 80 series, 'holey' in 105 series (their holes aren't as large as Nissan.

[clive22]

Hi

So it looks like its not practical with the current arms and realistically for the size of the market probably not going to be two totally different arms produced

So, having looked at my tired and battered old model housing is there any reason why I could get a second hand housing either post '93 defer or D1 and mu current slotted swivel ends over and center banjo over?

From parts it looks like the panhard's have the same bushes (AN3410) so must be the same width. Anyone know for sure?, my panhard bracket internal bracket (not bush) measurement is 44mm

I understand the springs are the same with at the front (not back) with later defers and D1 discos. Am I correct?

The nuts around my banjo are 3/8" fine, are the later housing the same or been converted to 10mm. Anyone have knowledge on the differences

I'm looking at bracing, blasting and recoating the later model 2nd hand housing so have a nice strong diff at the same time, without immobilizing the truck -well only whilst the diff housing swap is done.


Clive

[LowRanger]

Hi

So it looks like its not practical with the current arms and realistically for the size of the market probably not going to be two totally different arms produced

So, having looked at my tired and battered old model housing is there any reason why I could get a second hand housing either post '93 defer or D1 and mu current slotted swivel ends over and center banjo over?

From parts it looks like the panhard's have the same bushes (AN3410) so must be the same width. Anyone know for sure?, my panhard bracket internal bracket (not bush) measurement is 44mm

I understand the springs are the same with at the front (not back) with later defers and D1 discos. Am I correct?

The nuts around my banjo are 3/8" fine, are the later housing the same or been converted to 10mm. Anyone have knowledge on the differences

I'm looking at bracing, blasting and recoating the later model 2nd hand housing so have a nice strong diff at the same time, without immobilizing the truck -well only whilst the diff housing swap is done.


Clive

Clive

There is no reason that you can't change over the front diff housings,as long as you have 7 holes in the swivel flange,it will all bolt up.
The other alternative is to cut off the mounts for the radius arms and move them to the required spacing,the same as later models.

[clive22]

Thanks for that lowranger

So I'll look for a D1 or post '93 defer housing.

If I can get a housing at a sane price I'll go that way, plus I can brace it up at the same time.

When you look at that brackets the panhard, spring perch and front and rear on each side are all coupled together - I think it'll be less work to swap the diffs.

I have 9 bolts in my swivel, but two of these are for the lock off bolts to stop
the slotted swivels from ever rotating - so that should be good to go.


Clive

[Expatdisco3]

Will there be any plans for superflex arms for Disco 2??

[Grimace]

Will there be any plans for superflex arms for Disco 2??

Thats easy!

Sell D2, buy Fender/RRC, fit SF arms :D

[Expatdisco3]

Thats easy!

Sell D2, buy Fender/RRC, fit SF arms :D

If only it was that simple!!

[Bush65]

...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/545.jpg

This has me confused. I can't see how the bushes in this orientation allow more deflection then in a more vertical plane?
...
I must say I thought the same as Grimace regarding the orientation of the bushes. And still unable to understand why after the replies to his question.

Now Presto has posted a pic of his arms, with the bushes in the replacement for the normal arm orientated more like I would expect.

However the bush in the superflex arm is not quite what I would expect - I need to consider this particular one some more.


...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/546.jpg

[Grimace]

I must say I thought the same as Grimace regarding the orientation of the bushes.

I am still unsure of the reasoning for the orientation on the bushes being horizontal.

If I had to do it myself, given my previous understanding, I would have done exactly as can be seen on both Grants and my own arms.
Vertical on the fixed arm and horizontal on the SF arm.

But I am only going by previous explanations and experience on the installation & workings of the Haltech holey bushes.

[Grimace]

Got the arms fitted to Grants Defender over the weekend. Still early in the build stage. So changes are to come. But this is the results, with full pressures no lockers.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/543.jpg

The limiting factor is currently the shocks (11.5" travel) reaching full extension, and is loosing out on some compression due to what we suspect is too higher springs rates.

More to come as we progress with this one.

EDIT: The springs fitted to this vehicle are as follows;
Front = Dobinson C51-015, 430mm free length, 237lbs (specified as rear spring for Classic Rangie)
Rear = Dobinson C51-019, 440mm free length, 320lbs

[yt110]

I have just got my radius arms from superior engineering,they are for 2" lift and not the SF ones.

In the parcel was a bag with 6 flat washers in it.

Does anyone know what they are for?

What have others done about the difference between the 50mm Nissan bush and the brackets on the diff housing which are 54mm?

Is that what the washer are for (spacers)?

Jim

[Presto]

Hi Jim,

Yes, I used the washers to space out the bushes. I found the drivers side arm was very close to the chassis, so used the washers on one side of the bush to create more space between the arm and the chassis.

Hope this helps!

Grant

[yt110]

Hi Jim,

Yes, I used the washers to space out the bushes. I found the drivers side arm was very close to the chassis, so used the washers on one side of the bush to create more space between the arm and the chassis.

Hope this helps!

Grant

Thanks for the reply Grant

Did you use 2 washers per bush?

The washers I got if I use one per bush it will still be a loose fit,but if I use both I'll have to bend the diff brackets.

Funny how I was supplied 6 washers.

Jim.

[Presto]

I used 1 washer per bush

[LowRanger]

Thanks for the reply Grant

Did you use 2 washers per bush?

The washers I got if I use one per bush it will still be a loose fit,but if I use both I'll have to bend the diff brackets.

Funny how I was supplied 6 washers.

Jim.

I used 2 washers per bush and they end up being a very tight fit,I used a small punch to knock the second washer into place,not sure what thickness the washers are that are supplied,as I went and bought some washers to fit mine,as it was sort of a prototype fitment.And as Grant said,you need the washer on the inside of the drivers side arm to give a little more clearance from the chassis.With washers either side everything is a nice tight fit in the front end.Possibly the brackets have been bent when the radius arm bolts have been done up previously,so a little persuasion won't hurt;)

[nick b]

Has anyone got any video of their rigs yet?

[LowRanger]

Has anyone got any video of their rigs yet?

Not yet,but I am going out tomorrow,so hopefully get some then

[1MadEngineer]

gee its quiet around here, seems to be almost no interest in rover stuff at all. I thought i had the arms pretty good, or maybe there really is not the market for premium stuff? I am open to ideas, please give me a glimmer of hope before we scrap the project..... :cry:

[Presto]

They're certainly working well for us, which shows in the fact that we are limited by the 12" shocks in my car, and even Grimaces 14"'s seems to be fully extended!
We need some time to play with top shock mounts heights and extended bump stops to make the most of them.

We're heading to LCMP this weekend, so might try disconnecting a shock to find the limit of the flex! :)

[Skiboy]

Some more pics and videos on this site might help sell the merits to potential purchasers.

I watched Presto's set getting fitted and took pics on the ramp - sold me - I just need to get myself a set now

I think you would sell heaps if got exposure in the US and Uk esp. given fx rate good for them now. So qu is how to get profile over there.

Skiboy

[Psimpson7]

The extended delays, especially at the end of last year when we struggled to get any accurate updates and different answers from people we spoke to at SE meant I lost interest in the arms and bought other stuff instead.

Also (and this is just my opinion but) I have some issues with buying a 'premium' product where it requires packing out with washers to make it fit.

[Skiboy]

The extended delays, especially at the end of last year when we struggled to get any accurate updates and different answers from people we spoke to at SE meant I lost interest in the arms and bought other stuff instead.

Also (and this is just my opinion but) I have some issues with buying a 'premium' product where it requires packing out with washers to make it fit.

You are constantly adding shims to your diff and gearbox rebuilds - are they not thin washers! :D

[uninformed]

This is just a thought Pete, since I have not measure the items, but: If you were to fit SuperPro Nissan bushes and that bush had the same OD crush tube in it as the LR Superpro ones, you could use the LR crush tube and no shims would be needed, or just machine up a crush tube for the nissan type. This of coarse would not work with genuine nissan bushes as the tube is bonded into it.

I was interested in getting some custom arms made from SE but total lack of responses has me going another route.

[LowRanger]

The weather and work have been getting in the way of getting out and about and getting any more pics or video.

[LowRanger]

They're certainly working well for us, which shows in the fact that we are limited by the 12" shocks in my car, and even Grimaces 14"'s seems to be fully extended!
We need some time to play with top shock mounts heights and extended bump stops to make the most of them.

We're heading to LCMP this weekend, so might try disconnecting a shock to find the limit of the flex! :)

I have said all along that the flex is limited by the shocks,but having said that,I think you will risk deformation of the chassis bush with much more than 14" shocks.And much more than that and it begins to sound like a Jeep **** festival.

[kreecha]

The extended delays, especially at the end of last year when we struggled to get any accurate updates and different answers from people we spoke to at SE meant I lost interest in the arms and bought other stuff instead.


^^ what he said.

I will get some, and thanks for making them Greg, but I was ready and waiting for a loooong time. I even bought pipe and trail gear creeper joints to build a three-link because i figured you guys had given up. Sure I understand if you disband the product due to lack of interest. But gee I hope i get in before you do!

[uninformed]

it would seem stupid to "disband" the product. The R&D is done, they are very simple to manufacture, they are getting Nissan and Toyota arms made often so whats a slight change in the file for the laser cutter/CNC… They don't require any new bushes they don't already use.

Seems like sand box tactics to say they might bail on them???

[GoldCloverLeaf]

I'm still get getting a pair, i need to wait for the bank balance to recover after replacing the gearbox (5th gear bearing went)

If you want to shift a fair few, run an ad in Land Rover Owner International magazine, you can buy these mags pretty much anywhere in the world and they advertise pretty heavily in aftermarket 'premium' gear market.

They constantly run ads for $8,000 Italian suspension kits, so there is a market there for sure...

There are also similar magazines - Land Rover Monthly, and Land Rover World worth a look, these are all available in the bigger newsagency's locally.

I don't know if you are interested in the overseas market but it would be a pretty safe bet if you really wanted to move a few, the LR aftermarket is a BIG industry, unfortunately 98% of that market is in the Northern Hemisphere.

[Presto]

it would seem stupid to "disband" the product. The R&D is done, they are very simple to manufacture, they are getting Nissan and Toyota arms made often so whats a slight change in the file for the laser cutter/CNC… They don't require any new bushes they don't already use.

Seems like sand box tactics to say they might bail on them???

I think the plan is make a long arm kit for the rear, then have those and the SF arms engineered, so plenty of development left to do!

[uninformed]

I think the plan is make a long arm kit for the rear, then have those and the SF arms engineered, so plenty of development left to do!

Obviously I don't know all the ins and outs, but if they think the market is too small, I still can't see why they would pull the SF and radius arms. The work is already done on those, they have already got Toyota and Nissan arms approved so to get the LR arms sorted isn't that much more work.

[kreecha]

Obviously I don't know all the ins and outs, but if they think the market is too small, I still can't see why they would pull the SF and radius arms. The work is already done on those, they have already got Toyota and Nissan arms approved so to get the LR arms sorted isn't that much more work.

Greg,
Referring to this post above,
Is there an intention for the arms to get blanket engineering approval the same as the cruiser/patrol arms?

I understand I am only one, but I have already spent a bucket load of cash on 3-link gear.

To then buy the SF arms which I intend too AND THEN have them engineered drives the cost up further. Especially in Darwin with a few compnaies having the monopoly.

Looking forward to your reply,
cheers, Adam.

[1MadEngineer]

Guys, sorry if it came across all down in that post. I am just getting 'leveraged' about the rover stuff and the R&D time i am putting in. I love doing stuff for them as I have a special spot for them, my first comp buggy was half rover. I keep looking at the pics of the arms on waynes defender and saying WOW! to myself which keep me excited about coming up with new ideas. I am hoping to get back to finalising paperwork and designs on the rear long arms so that they along with the Superflex arms can get approvals easily. I know its still early days, but i am keen to see how they go over time.

Greg

[LowRanger]

Guys, sorry if it came across all down in that post. I am just getting 'leveraged' about the rover stuff and the R&D time i am putting in. I love doing stuff for them as I have a special spot for them, my first comp buggy was half rover. I keep looking at the pics of the arms on waynes defender and saying WOW! to myself which keep me excited about coming up with new ideas. I am hoping to get back to finalising paperwork and designs on the rear long arms so that they along with the Superflex arms can get approvals easily. I know its still early days, but i am keen to see how they go over time.

Greg

Hey Greg
I will get some more pics and some video eventually,but work is suffocating me at the moment.Hopefully in a week or two.But I can tell you that I did get out,but no pics as I was leading,and it make a big difference to what was a fairly capable vehicle previously.And as I have said previously,it has added a lot more stability to the vehicle.
So to anyone thinking about it,just do it.You won't be disappointed.But be prepared to also fork out for longer shocks;)
And don't be put off by having to add spacers for the bushes,if that is the only things we have to worry about,then the vehicle must be mint:wasntme:

[nick b]

Greg don't stress. I will need a set this month. we have just finished making custom tray on the truck. have started on exo cage and will do this over the weekend.
we also have to film building the front bar and winch install this weekend. Wire the whole truck next weekend and Either paint or Wrap the truck and film that as well. then rego it. take it for a run and make sure everything works. Then the week after we have to try to organize fitting ashcroft axles/cv's and when the other sponsor kicks in we should have the cash for front arms.

We have been thinking of having a go at making our own arms for the back but we may run out of time before the first trip we take it on and film.

[Grimace]

I'll hopefully have some proper testing done this weekend. Got a camera man on board now too :D

Looking forward to all the guard rub loving from the comp spec treps :cool:

[Skiboy]

jealous!

[Presto]

Here's a pic of the SF arms in action at LCMP over the weekend. As mentioned above, I have some work to do on spring rates, shock lengths, top mount position, and bump stops, but pretty happy with it so far! :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/913.jpg

[workingonit]

I'm impressed with the increased flex. Like Kreecha would like clarification on the certification issues.

My project is a RRC 82, so if I read correctly there is some issue with bush housings, which I guess can be sorted. Currently though, my money is going on an Isuzu gearbox to LT230 transfer case adaptor kit. But once that is over and some more money gets saved then the Superflex will get my attention.

Thanks for the work Greg, and don't 'can it'.

Cheers..

[bushrover]

Guys, sorry if it came across all down in that post. I am just getting 'leveraged' about the rover stuff and the R&D time i am putting in. I love doing stuff for them as I have a special spot for them, my first comp buggy was half rover. I keep looking at the pics of the arms on waynes defender and saying WOW! to myself which keep me excited about coming up with new ideas. I am hoping to get back to finalising paperwork and designs on the rear long arms so that they along with the Superflex arms can get approvals easily. I know its still early days, but i am keen to see how they go over time.

Greg

Greg,

I have been waiting for the 'full certified kit'. F/R arms,springs, shocks. Don't can the project, just hurry up!!!!! I have spent money on other things because of the wait.

I will send you a deposit for the lot if it makes a difference to delivery and certification time?

Rick.

PM sent.

[kreecha]

WOI, the solution for you would be to swap a post update disco diff housing in.

While you're at it do the rear as well and then you will have ditched the 10-spline in favour of later 24-spline diffs.

Cheers, Adam.

[kreecha]

On a related subject, and thank you for your pics presto, can defenders or discoverys use the same height front shock towers?

I ask due to the different front guard/bonnet design.

Cheers, Adam.

[manchild21000]

Yes Adam you can , however you need a podfilter on the disco because the airbox is in the way .

[Presto]

On a related subject, and thank you for your pics presto, can defenders or discoverys use the same height front shock towers?

I ask due to the different front guard/bonnet design.

Cheers, Adam.

Hi Adam,
I don't think so, its more to do with chassis design. The best way to check is to remove the springs & shocks and sit the car on it's bump stops. Then you can measure the distance between the lower shock mount and the std tower top mount or turret mount, and check this against your shock compressed length. This will at least give you somewhere to start.
As an example, my shock towers are +35mm from std for 12" shocks. Grimace is running 14" shocks on his RRC which are 90mm longer compressed, but is running +80mm shock towers, so clearly something is different, which is why i suggest to check your own car on its bump stops.

[workingonit]

Hi Adam, yes I've got a few options open to me, I hope you noticed all the Discos when you last visited :) But if I'm needing certification for the Isuzu engine mount work, I wonder if that is an opportunity to also make a better mount for the bushes and get that certified as well? I spent last Saturday arvo at Mandorah under Hellonwheels latest purchase, an army deefa, measuring his engine mounts. The RRC running gear is doomed anyway as I have the Ashcroft stuff tucked away. And if need be, yes I can roll the Disco axles under the RRC, but I'd like to roll with (pun) the sway bar free RRC setup to see if I can cope with it first, without being hassled by motor vehicle registry saying since I've got Disco axles then I've got to have the sway bars. I might give Superior a ring tomorrow.

Have you solved your engine issue yet, see your other posts re my comments on timing. Cheers. Oh and thanks for this thread.

[workingonit]

Hi all.

I had a long conversation with Greg at Super. What I'm about to write may not be an entirely accurate summation, but it clarified a lot of things for me.

Any ideas of modifications did not come from Greg or me but just fell out of the air - the desciptions here were so obtuse you did not get it, but you went away and thought about it and figured it out yourself ie your risk not ours :)

I have a Disco 1 and RRC and confirmed that the mounting bracket on the Disco 1 axle is wider than that of the earlier RRC - approx 54 mm internal to 48 mm - difference of 6 mm, maybe even 8 mm if bolt tension is removed.

As stated elsewhere in this thread the Superflex arm is 32 mm wide, so fits both brackets. The bush housing tube, welded into the arm is 40 mm, so it fits both brackets. The Nissan bush itself is 50 mm and only fits the Disco 1 bracket. So the whole system as a straight bolt on is limited by the width of the bush and therefore limited to the Disco 1 (and later Defers?).

We discussed Nissan setups. Particularly how their vehicles flog out the mounting bracket eye on the axle (our LRovers have an additional 'washer' plate added to the eye to reduce the flogging). To repair the damage, Nissan owners add plate with a new hole. So to fit the Super arms to the narrower bracket on the RRC why not cut out the necessary bolt hole areas and move them out slightly to the required width and weld them back to the remaining old bracket? Most of the bracket on the axle stays in its original position, so no change to shock mount or panhard positions. And you get a stronger flex arm. You may need a certified welder certificate for chassis welds, but what about axles?

Even if it were possible to find an alternative bush that fitted or it was possible to machine the 50mm nissan bush to fit the RRC narrow bracket, the distance between the walls of the narrow bracket and the arm itself reduces side flex gap ie the arm may grind against the wall of the bracket when subject to side loadings and have some bind. I also suggested the standard LRover bush, but this apparently cannot cope with the stresses of the extra flex.

The kit Super sells contains two arms - one superflex - the other much the same as the standard LRover. The reason is for uniform strength side to side, and matching chassis bushes with equal flex. You can just buy the Superflex arm and keep the other arm standard LRover, just you will not get all of the available flex that the complete kit gives. The superflex arm goes on the left side of your vehicle, because there is some benefit gained from the long axles ability to take up stress by twisting on that side. Why not have superflex on both sides - possible - but the flex might be so great as to break steering ball joints.

So you buy the bolt on kit for your Disco 1. But your sway bars will not fit back on! Super sell a kit, quick detach, that over comes this, for a few hundred (if I may say this). For the front only.

We discussed the rear trailing arms. A set should cost less than the front arms. Seems they are held at the axle and chassis by very flexible rubber bushes, so flexible that they may as well be ball bearing swivels or rose joints. Street legal it seems.

So again, if I can say this, for likely a bit over two grand plus freight you can vastly improve both front and rear flex and have detachable sways at the front (figure it our for yourself at the rear or adapt a front pair?) Of course there is cost of matching springs and shocks to consider.

As an alternative to the nissan bush on the front axle, why not use ball bearing races instead, inserted into what is now the bush housing, and pack either side with rubber disks for the side load issues. Told that was on the money, and was considered. Problem is that the bearing inner ring on the retaining bolt may create a harmonic for those whose rigs are primarily tourers. Greg did not think it a big issue given all the other noises, but some people are very very fussy he has found. Why not a rubber coated bolt or insert into the inner bearing ring to alleviate - could do - but would people be put off by the apparent 'complexity'.

I asked how well does the LRover conversion stack up to that of similarly converted Nissan. Greg thought originally that they may come close in capability. However, apparently, Wayne/LowRanger, has dispelled that and shows it can be taken much further than the Nissan which is at its limits apparently. What are your secrets Wayne??? :)

Just an unrelated side note that if any of you are seeking an MSA to LT230 adaptor that Outcaste4x4 look like having something out soon, but numbers interested will determine price. Ring Greg (yes another Greg) on 0424705300 if serious interest.

Almost forgot - the 0 units are for standard to 2" lift - the 2 units are for 2" to 4". Hmmm, if your two inch lift then your on the cusp .

[Skiboy]

Could just swap all RRC internals into a Disco housing

Disco housing pretty cheap to pick up

[workingonit]

Yes, that's the alternative I have in mind. I have three Disco 1 registered at the moment. I have a fourth unregistered, for spares maybe, but it is also still a good goer. If I take the disco axle housings off then I devalue the Disco. The Disco comes with sway bars, so the rego people may make me have those on as well, so there is additional work for chassis brackets. I could grind the evidence of sway attachments off, but then if I ever want to put the axle housing back on the disco I have all the trouble of putting the sway mounts back on.

I suspect cutting and shunting the bolt eyes on the RRC is the easier option.

Sorry, also the RRC internals are going Ashcroft.

[Skiboy]

Diff bolts into disco housing
Swivel balls and everything else bolts to end of housing (ie keep swivels and all internals)
Done

Housing is just scrap metal at wreckers - off a mate - someone in the club

No sway bar if not a spec on RRC vehicle so either leave mount or cut off

[kreecha]

Diff bolts into disco housing
Swivel balls and everything else bolts to end of housing (ie keep swivels and all internals)
Done

Housing is just scrap metal at wreckers - off a mate - someone in the club

No sway bar if not a spec on RRC vehicle so either leave mount or cut off

Just leave the mounts there MVR wouldn't know. It will just look like the panhard bracket for LHD.

[LowRanger]

Hi all.

I had a long conversation with Greg at Super. What I'm about to write may not be an entirely accurate summation, but it clarified a lot of things for me.

Any ideas of modifications did not come from Greg or me but just fell out of the air - the desciptions here were so obtuse you did not get it, but you went away and thought about it and figured it out yourself ie your risk not ours :)



I asked how well does the LRover conversion stack up to that of similarly converted Nissan. Greg thought originally that they may come close in capability. However, apparently, Wayne/LowRanger, has dispelled that and shows it can be taken much further than the Nissan which is at its limits apparently. What are your secrets Wayne??? :)




I could tell you.....but then I would have to kill you;):D:D:D:D:D:D

[workingonit]

Can you tell Kreecha, then he can tell me, then you can kill Kreecha - but be aware he's a Zombie preper so who knows what he's got up his sleeve. Mind with the top speed his disco is doing at the moment he'd be hard pressed to out drive a mob of living dead...:)

[kreecha]

It's all about low range isn't it?? Haha

[LowRanger]

here are a couple of new photos that were taken on yesterdays outing to Yalwal

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/777.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1058.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/778.jpg

[460cixy]

Very nice

[brendanm]

I was out with Wayne yesterday. While the flex in the suspension is great, more impressive was how flat the car sat. On cross slopes the car did not tilt awkwardly either.
I picked up a set of these arms through the week and until later in March they have 10% off(see their website). Good saving for something I intended to buy anyway.

[rick130]

Bloody impressive Wayne....

[workingonit]

Yes, when I spoke to Greg he said compression and level was a pleasant surprise.

Kreecha, don't know if low range is going to help you. The zombies are still driving their Tojos and Nee'sans and since their vehicles never break down there's no reason to step out side the vehicle :)

PS they only get infected when they step out to refill, which is often...

[Expatdisco3]

I still think superior engineering should make superflex arms for disco 2's. I've looked at the LRA camber correction plates and just wouldn't trust em!! Also looked at arms from the uk and can't justify the cost of getting them landed in Perth.

[workingonit]

Expat, I guess the question to ask for peace of mind is do the Nissan units use similar grade LRA and size and what failures do they have. The actual Rover bracketing on the axles housing, on the Disco 1 at least, is thinner metal still!

Wayne, its hard to tell, but are your springs detaching or fixed both ends to accommodate this sort of flex?

[Expatdisco3]

Expat, I guess the question to ask for peace of mind is do the Nissan units use similar grade LRA and size and what failures do they have. The actual Rover bracketing on the axles housing, on the Disco 1 at least, is thinner metal still.

Are you referring to the bushes in the arms??

[workingonit]

Not the bushes.

When expressing concern, I thought you might be referring to the 8 mm? plates that link the lower part of the radius arm to the axle housing. I assume Superflex use similar design as per Nissan re Superflex arm on passenger side, hence query about whether Nissan drivers break/bend these plates.

Here's an interesting thread, note while BigO are cheaper they may be thinner guage and not include bushes. And 3rds to be avoided. His second link doesn't work, but if you fiddle with the address you get to his block, but still couldnt see pic of damage. Note remark in his blog that welder in Bamaga only ever gets jeeps and rovers needing work. Hmmm.

snake racing dropped radius arms? - Patrol 4x4 - Nissan Patrol Forum (http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-patrol-gu-gr-10/snake-racing-dropped-radius-arms-24128/)

[LowRanger]

Expat, I guess the question to ask for peace of mind is do the Nissan units use similar grade LRA and size and what failures do they have. The actual Rover bracketing on the axles housing, on the Disco 1 at least, is thinner metal still!

Wayne, its hard to tell, but are your springs detaching or fixed both ends to accommodate this sort of flex?

All my springs are custom made,I am at the limit at the moment of both spring and shock travel.Any more would require serious rethinking


Sent from my signalling device using Land Rover signals

[LowRanger]

I was out with Wayne yesterday. While the flex in the suspension is great, more impressive was how flat the car sat. On cross slopes the car did not tilt awkwardly either.
I picked up a set of these arms through the week and until later in March they have 10% off(see their website). Good saving for something I intended to buy anyway.

Brendan,I have more pics and some video,that once I convert it,I will place in a separate tread about yesterday's trip


Sent from my signalling device using Land Rover signals

[workingonit]

So it sounds like your springs have sufficient length to avoid disconnect.

Are you using the superflex just on the passenger side mated to superior engineering standard radius arm on drivers side, or have you gone superflex on both sides?

(psst...he hadn't reached for his gun yet...keep asking questions!!!)

[Presto]

All my springs are custom made,I am at the limit at the moment of both spring and shock travel.Any more would require serious rethinking


Sent from my signalling device using Land Rover signals

Hi Wayne,
So your springs are retained front and rear? What are the specs on your springs? (free length, lbs, etc?)

[LowRanger]

So it sounds like your springs have sufficient length to avoid disconnect.

Are you using the superflex just on the passenger side mated to superior engineering standard radius arm on drivers side, or have you gone superflex on both sides?

(psst...he hadn't reached for his gun yet...keep asking questions!!!)

Yes I. Have the standard setup of super flex arm on the passenger side and SE arm on the drivers side.And yes my springs are just long enough


Sent from my signalling device using Land Rover signals

[LowRanger]

Hi Wayne,
So your springs are retained front and rear? What are the specs on your springs? (free length, lbs, etc?)

My springs have been discussed many times on the forum.I had them custom made.I had the vehicle weighed in its normal ready for action setup and had all 4 corners weighed.I won't go into the why's and why nots but I run progressive springs in the rear which are over 500mm free length,can't remember exactly and the fronts are linear rate and I can't remember the free length.


Sent from my signalling device using Land Rover signals

[workingonit]

Thanks Wayne, I'll troll all your threads...suspect the trigger finger is getting itchy :(

[LowRanger]

Thanks Wayne, I'll troll all your threads...suspect the trigger finger is getting itchy :(

I am just not going to tell someone to set their vehicle up the same as mine,as I believe that all vehicles are different and need to be set up slightly different,and everyone drives differently and has different expectations.Mine is set up relatively soft but the shocks have been valved a little firmer as this is what I like,but obviously won't suit someone that likes to pretend their Defender actually goes fast and throws the truck around on the road.Some things have to be left for the individual to work out what is going to work for them


Sent from my signalling device using Land Rover signals

[GoldCloverLeaf]

I put my superflex arms in on Saturday, i haven't had a chance to test them properly yet. I got the castor corrected arms, so it's a nicer drive on the road, slightly more body roll now but doesn't bother me as the ride is generally improved.

My front propshaft angle was borderline before the castor correction but now i will need to put in a double carden as the angle is too great and it's starting to bind. Oh well, it was on the cards anyway!

[LowRanger]

OK here is a short video of a bit of flex from Saturday

Flexing at Yalwal March 15 2014 on Vimeo

[GoldCloverLeaf]

I know i know... pics or it didn't happen :BigThumb:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/757.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/mgilliezz/media/dc010fbc-70a8-4b64-9f69-f412a4e1c743_zps95cc60aa.jpg.html)

[460cixy]

Where's all the noise comeing from?

[LowRanger]

Where's all the noise comeing from?

From the springs;)

[GoldCloverLeaf]

Nice one Wayne, would be interesting to drive a stock Defender through there as a comparison, it would be at all sorts of angles!

[workingonit]

What specification of radius arm have you guys opted for ie 0 or 2?

My project is an Isuzu 4bd1 into 82 RRC, which is going to throw about 150kg extra onto the front. Has me wondering what I will sacrifice in soft spring by changing spring spec. The vehicles previous owner(s) has by the looks of it put a spring lift of 2" so softness may be compromised anyway. I've no standard vehicle to compare. And the boge unit may still be working! I'm not sure whether to get the 0 spec ie covers from no lift to 2" lift. While spec 2 covers 2" to 4" if I remember correctly. I suspect I should go to spec 2.

[LowRanger]

Nice one Wayne, would be interesting to drive a stock Defender through there as a comparison, it would be at all sorts of angles!

Brendan drove through it and had wheels in the air


Sent from my signalling device using Land Rover signals

[uninformed]

What specification of radius arm have you guys opted for ie 0 or 2?

My project is an Isuzu 4bd1 into 82 RRC, which is going to throw about 150kg extra onto the front. Has me wondering what I will sacrifice in soft spring by changing spring spec. The vehicles previous owner(s) has by the looks of it put a spring lift of 2" so softness may be compromised anyway. I've no standard vehicle to compare. And the boge unit may still be working! I'm not sure whether to get the 0 spec ie covers from no lift to 2" lift. While spec 2 covers 2" to 4" if I remember correctly. I suspect I should go to spec 2.

Work your spring rates out when you have your project complete or there about.

That does not mean you can not decide on a lift or no lift now. I.e plan what you want BS gap wise and what will work with the Isuzu in the RRC and buy the arms to suit that. (lift or no lift etc)

Get springs to suit.

The other option is to get the 0 lift arms and rotate the swivels if you need to.

[nick b]

Trying to work out if the Custom Kings I have are sitting right before I order the Arms for the Redemption Project. What should the approx stock bumpstop clearance be front and Rear?

just fitted the front spring and they seem to look lower than I thought. Am fitting the rears when I fit all the Ashcroft axle parts on the weekend.

[GoldCloverLeaf]

There's a few threads on bumpstop heights and other ways of measuring, otherwise get the alignment checked when its together to see where the castor is at. Otherwise as uninformed said, get the standard castor arms and clock the swivels if need-be. I would have gone that way but i only recently rebuilt the swivels and i wasn't in the mood to pull them apart again!

[nick b]

Measured last night looks like close to 90mm in the dark. That is suggesting to go the 2" lift arms. Wayne did you get any rear arms off greg?

[LowRanger]

Measured last night looks like close to 90mm in the dark. That is suggesting to go the 2" lift arms. Wayne did you get any rear arms off greg?

Greg doesn't have rear arms at this stage.The arms I have,have been in the truck for a few years now,and obviously work well


Sent from my signalling device using Land Rover signals

[LowRanger]

Measured last night looks like close to 90mm in the dark. That is suggesting to go the 2" lift arms. Wayne did you get any rear arms off greg?

Bump stop measurements are always subjective,as it depends where on the housing the measurement is taken,due to angle of the housing


Sent from my signalling device using Land Rover signals

[GoldCloverLeaf]

OK... not to take away from the subject, but since this directly related here is another method (care of Gwyn Lewis' website) for measuring lift:

Front:

This is the way to measure your spring lift (suspension Height) you park your Land Rover on level ground and measure the rear part of the front spring like in the picture, a standard Defender measures 260mm, this 110 with OME 751s fitted measures 295mm as you can see on the picture, so this is a 35mm lift over standard, but the old springs on this 110 measured 240mm so it has gone up by 55mm from where it was, but the old springs had sunk by 20mm, this is the way i always measure spring heights as it gives a true reading.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/610.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/mgilliezz/media/577958_521264801258672_1555800199_n_zpsad7d976d.jp g.html)

Rear:

This is how you measure your suspension lift on the rear, park on level ground and measure the spring height as in the picture, i have fitted OME2755 springs on the rear, the measurement of the old ones where 320mm, it is now 355mm, a lift of 35mm to match the front.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/611.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/mgilliezz/media/312718_529314347120384_159139168_n_zps01e543d5.jpg .html)

[uninformed]

Measured last night looks like close to 90mm in the dark. That is suggesting to go the 2" lift arms. Wayne did you get any rear arms off greg?

Nick, what vehicle are you talking about?

Defenders can be a little different depending on model etc, but I would say that 90mm is no more, and could be less than 1 inch over stock (that is assuming stock bumpstops, stock housing and stock radius arms)

As a note, I recently measured a brand new, in dealer yard 130CC with alloy tray, the front passenger BS gap was 100mm. I use a good quality, clearly marked steel rule and measure the front of housing BS pad and rear of same pad, while there is some variation there is not much. Just take the average. It is near impossible to take an accurate measure meant in the middle. Keep the rule straight and plumb, get your eye lever with the pad to remove error of parallax.

[kreecha]

I would like to know what the standard disco height is for the above method.

[Tyresqueal]

I would like to know what the standard disco height is for the above method.

^^^ me too

[nick b]

To add to this
Vehicle is the redemption project that has been getting built.
Spec bobtail 110 defender 1995 ute built chassis and diffs up to sas/1 ton spec with Gwynn shock mounts longer shocks etc
Orders front lifted arms yesterday afternoon and ordered rear superior arms also stay tuned ;)

[nick b]

So when I went into Superior this afternoon to collect the Superflex arms I paid for the other day....

Oh your land rover mates may take you down to get these arms if you are seen, they are the last set and a quite a few Land Rover Owners have been calling for a set of these today.

Looks like us Rover boys have been finally biting the bullet.

Thanks for all the Hard work Greg. I look forward to the rears arms in a weeks time.

[Grimace]

I look forward to the rears arms in a weeks time.

some one best contact me if this is the real deal! legit!!!

[uninformed]

Im not holding my breath for contact. But I would like to know if they are a bolt in replacement or long arm kit?

[nick b]

Well grimace they said to write it as a reminder on the order and said Greg was hoping like all get up to get some ready to be ready in approx 1 week. Will do a install pics etc once I go over and collect them. in the meantime I have just finish paint the custom tray and Exo Cage and peeping body for paint Tuesday Afternoon. So hope fully next weekend I will be bolting new seats, fitting Ashcroft Gear, fitting front Superflex Arms (rears also if ready), Fitting CB, Stereo, APT Front Double CD Porp Shaft. And attempting to film it.... Crazy I know. Week after am getting engineer plates on the seat changes etc and rego. Then Shakedown run. Then final work then Trip to North QLD to test it all out....

[Presto]

Greg, if these rear arms are the long arm conversion, please contact me! :)

[LowRanger]

I think you will find that these arms are the bolt in replacements for the standard arms;)

[nick b]

Wayne.

What length Shock did you end up fitting and did you keep the pin pin setup. Will take the tape measure to the truck once the arms are on and may need to replace the front spring even though new as the dual battery (YellowTops D31A) have dropped the front left down more than we thought.

My main reason was to make the front to rear balanced also but the Shock that the Boys at Superior have in Pin to Pin ma not be big enough so may have to make new shock mounts that are Eye to Eye (Trying to avoid this).

[LowRanger]

Nick I have the longest pin/pin that they make;) Although it depends on how you want to play around,you may be better off with the ones they make for the lifted Patrols,like Mike (gold cloverleaf) has fitted
Also by playing with rear mounts you could fit ridiculous length shocks to the rear,but I am more concerned about a balanced package offroad and not a picture pose truck so have limited the length of the rear shocks to achieve my aim.And am as happy as a pig in ****

[nick b]

Thanks Wayne.

I am after a balanced rig also.

I will wait till the arms are on and check the travel. I love how balanced yours has become with SF fronts mate.

[Pateyw]

Are the rear arms available from superior eng.?;)

[nick b]

Rear Arms hoping tomorrow or Friday.... Waiting on the powdercoaters for the brackets.

I have been trying to make brackets for the aftermarkets seats that the Engineer is happy with and still gives ok access to battery boxes then road worthy and Hopefully shakedown to be able to see if she is as balanced as Wayne's beast before posting pics (gotta say Wayne your truck really is balanced front to rear now).

[LowRanger]

Rear Arms hoping tomorrow or Friday.... Waiting on the powdercoaters for the brackets.

I have been trying to make brackets for the aftermarkets seats that the Engineer is happy with and still gives ok access to battery boxes then road worthy and Hopefully shakedown to be able to see if she is as balanced as Wayne's beast before posting pics (gotta say Wayne your truck really is balanced front to rear now).

Yeah thanks Nick,a balanced setup is what I have been chasing,as I believe that it will get you a lot further and safely than something that has a lot of travel but is unbalanced.
Which rear arms did you end up with.The bolt in ones or the long arms that will require mounting brackets to be welded to the chassis?

[nick b]

Wayne I haven't got them in my hot hands yet...

But the boys at Superior have said they are like the Heavy Duty Adjustable Nissan arms (+30mm) type. As you said Greg hasn't had time to make and test a set of weld on Long Arms yet.

I was and may still make some long arms but I needed a set or rear arms for the trip next week and have a list as long as my arm to get done on the truck and am avoiding more welding and painting...

[GoldCloverLeaf]

Finally got around to taking a few pics with the SF arms in action... i couldn't find anything to drive over to test the travel limit in a cross-axle situation !! In these pics the front springs are just starting to dislocate with more to go.

These are with 11" travel shocks front and rear for reference.

The front tucks in real nicely now, it wouldn't get anywhere near that before, and as you can see, it all sits very level, i could have stuck a spirit level on the bonnet and it would be perfectly square :p

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/1239.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/mgilliezz/media/20140329_130924_zpsa9cddbf1.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/1240.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/mgilliezz/media/20140329_131544_zps7936bfb3.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/1241.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/mgilliezz/media/20140329_131537_zps2507dc6c.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/1242.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/mgilliezz/media/20140329_131020_zpsd0113fa8.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/1243.jpg (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/mgilliezz/media/20140329_131639_zps020aa8cd.jpg.html)

[brendanm]

That looks great Mike, going to take a bit to lift a wheel. The shocks you have look like Amarda's coupled with Gwyn Lewis turrets. When you were choosing spring and shock combinations, how did you arrive at the current set up ? Or has anyone out there used the Old Man Emu combination with a similar set up as they do in the UK?

[LowRanger]

That looks great Mike, going to take a bit to lift a wheel. The shocks you have look like Amarda's coupled with Gwyn Lewis turrets. When you were choosing spring and shock combinations, how did you arrive at the current set up ? Or has anyone out there used the Old Man Emu combination with a similar set up as they do in the UK?

Hi Brendan
There would be no problem using the OME 60070L shocks with this setup,as you would basically have the same travel as the shocks that Mike has.The rebound is firmer in the OME shocks,so the ride will correspondingly be a little firmer.This will not alter the travel of the shocks though.
I have a set here if you want to fit your arms and try them:D

[GoldCloverLeaf]

That looks great Mike, going to take a bit to lift a wheel. The shocks you have look like Amarda's coupled with Gwyn Lewis turrets. When you were choosing spring and shock combinations, how did you arrive at the current set up ? Or has anyone out there used the Old Man Emu combination with a similar set up as they do in the UK?

Yep that's exactly what i'm running, i chose these Amada shocks because they have very similar open/closed lengths as the OME 60070L - which is the shock most people run with the Gwyn Lewis mounts so i knew it would be plug and play.... no measuring to calculate shock lengths required. All 4 corners are pin to pin mount which are advertised to suit the front a 6" lift Patrol, although with the Defender being a far superior vehicle, it can make use of the shock travel with only 2" of lift :twisted:

As for the springs... researching this made my brain hurt but i ended up running something like 225 lb/psi in the front and 270 lb/psi in the rear and i'm pretty happy with it, although a 130 would obviously weigh more!!

[mools]

At the moment I only have a casual interest in fitting super flex arms. Maybe in the future, maybe not. At present I'm not entirely sure which direction I'll be taking my current vehicle in the future.

However, and as it doesn't seem to have been explicitly stated in this thread, I'd like to know if fitting the front arms would / does require sign off by an engineer? Seems like quite a large modification to critical components not to require some sort of certification.

If so how are people finding the whole engineering process, smooth or problematic? I'm trying to gauge the level of commitment (in terms of both time, money and sheer hassle) involved with the various option to further modify my truck.

Cheers,

Ian.

[nick b]

ok lads. have just got back from trip and had to leave the Defender in the Garage as the ignition died friday afternoon as I pulled in the driveway from QLD inspection and rego. While attempting to fix ignition and fit Superior front and rear arms the brackets didn't fit. BUT even though Greg was a superstar and started working on a solution to wrong holes on the brackets I couldn't get the Ignition to work and pushed the old girl into garage (took and tested the wives new Jeep JK on the Nth Qld trip).

Have come back and will grab the new brackets of Greg and the boys at Superior during the week and hopefully in the next 2 weekend the truck will find some terrain hard enough to test it on.

Big Thank you to Greg and making Front and rear arms that allow our Landies to do more safely what we have always wanted them to do.

[Pateyw]

Rear arms what rear arms not from superior no
I was told only a week ago they don't make them
And my delays on the front arms were due to their machinist having a heart attack so hope he gets well soon

[nick b]

Well I have grabbed the new mounts for the rear Superior Arms that Greg has made and will try and find time to fit tonight. Greg and I are hoping these work as the one bracket would then fit Disco 1 and Defenders.

Will try and post some pics once it all works and is on. Then I guess Superior will list them on the site.

Appreciate the hard work that has gone into making these parts. I love it when us Aussies make top end affordable and engineered parts. Look after your local guys when you have the chance I say.

[Presto]

Hi Nick,
There seems to be some confusion above over which rear arms Greg is producing. Can you confirm that those you refer to are the long arm conversion requiring the old mounts to be removed and new mounts welded to the chassis?
Regards
Grant

[nick b]

Grant happy to mate.

The Arms are the same as those in the prototypes he made for the Disco mule he was using ans posted pics of. They are slightly longer than standard to relieve pinion stress when I measured but have the bush at both ends like a heavy duty Nissan rear lower trailing arm. They are not what you would classify a long arm.

I would be happy to cut my mounts off after trialing these for a bit and either make my own long arms rear kit or try one from Greg but I feel I would need to make a new A-frame to get the full benefit.

FYI - When ordering them from Superior the staff call them Land rover Rear lower Links (They may call them something different once they release them).

[LowRanger]

Hi Nick,
There seems to be some confusion above over which rear arms Greg is producing. Can you confirm that those you refer to are the long arm conversion requiring the old mounts to be removed and new mounts welded to the chassis?
Regards
Grant

Grant
To reduce any confusion,the Arms that Greg is producing at the moment are straight bolt in replacement arms,using the original chassis mount,and NOT the long arms that will require welding brackets to the chassis.:angel:

[LowRanger]

Well I have grabbed the new mounts for the rear Superior Arms that Greg has made and will try and find time to fit tonight. Greg and I are hoping these work as the one bracket would then fit Disco 1 and Defenders.

Will try and post some pics once it all works and is on. Then I guess Superior will list them on the site.

Appreciate the hard work that has gone into making these parts. I love it when us Aussies make top end affordable and engineered parts. Look after your local guys when you have the chance I say.

Yes the only difference in the brackets is that the bolt hole on the Disco have the lower 2 holes horizontal and the Defenders are rotated approx 24Deg.Dont ask me how I know:p

[uninformed]

So what advantages does this new bolt in rear trailing arm from Superior Eng. offer?

[LowRanger]

So what advantages does this new bolt in rear trailing arm from Superior Eng. offer?

Pics in post #74 would suggest lest binding at the chassis end bush,and hence a lot less wear.

[nick b]

Yes Wayne I had a chuckle when Greg said how he got the measurements.

I made the same mistake when I dodgied up a one before running out of time and using the Superior arm. I got the first brackets and thought (well I am not as funny at measuring as I thought someone else is to ;) )

Yes Wayne I had a quick measure tonight and it looks like the new bracket will fit. I only just got home from 13hour day and start at 4 am tomorrow so will fit them fully on the weekend and hopefully get a hand with wiring and new ignition so I can test them.

Yes design is bolt In Replacement and less binding. Would be handy if the were an adjustable version as that's what I thought Greg would go originally.

Will be interesting in front to rear balance with SF front and thee new tears to compare if it is still is as balanced as yours Wayne. I only have the Terrafirma +5"/11" travel shock with GL extended mounts.

[LowRanger]

Yes Wayne I had a chuckle when Greg said how he got the measurements.

I made the same mistake when I dodgied up a one before running out of time and using the Superior arm. I got the first brackets and thought (well I am not as funny at measuring as I thought someone else is to ;) )

Yes Wayne I had a quick measure tonight and it looks like the new bracket will fit. I only just got home from 13hour day and start at 4 am tomorrow so will fit them fully on the weekend and hopefully get a hand with wiring and new ignition so I can test them.

Yes design is bolt In Replacement and less binding. Would be handy if the were an adjustable version as that's what I thought Greg would go originally.

Will be interesting in front to rear balance with SF front and thee new tears to compare if it is still is as balanced as yours Wayne. I only have the Terrafirma +5"/11" travel shock with GL extended mounts.

Yeah Nick,I actually went out with my engineers square and took angular measurements from my 110 and confirmed them on my 130 before I passed them on.But I did check it with a level,so the angle should be pretty close:eek:.
Provided you did your homework with your spring heights and rates,you should have no problems with the Terrafirma shocks and GL mounts.

[nick b]

Quick pick of Rear Heavy Duty Superior Arm fitted some adjustment still to be made to upper bracket. I will try and get some pics on the weekend in rear wheel drive as new front D/C APT prop shaft adapter is being made.

[Presto]

Thanks Nick! ...do you have a better pic of the upper mount?

[nick b]

Presto, I can get a better shot but it will show my bad angle grinder cutting to it to get it to fit. I am working on the truck all Saturday to be able to drive it down to Superior so Greg can make some adjustments to the mounts that he can then sell as a Kit. I am still without the front prop shaft until APT get the adapter for it machined up so will be driving the old girl in rear wheel drive unless magic happens as Machinists are hard to come by.

[LowRanger]

Quick pick of Rear Heavy Duty Superior Arm fitted some adjustment still to be made to upper bracket. I will try and get some pics on the weekend in rear wheel drive as new front D/C APT prop shaft adapter is being made.

I am intrigued why you need to grind the chassis mount,I was under the belief that it was going to be a bolt up application:o

[Presto]

Presto, I can get a better shot but it will show my bad angle grinder cutting to it to get it to fit. I am working on the truck all Saturday to be able to drive it down to Superior so Greg can make some adjustments to the mounts that he can then sell as a Kit. I am still without the front prop shaft until APT get the adapter for it machined up so will be driving the old girl in rear wheel drive unless magic happens as Machinists are hard to come by.

Funny that, I'm a machinist! ;) ....but then I'm even further south, and currently only have a CNC machining centre (no lathe).

[nick b]

Well that is funny :)

Wayne The second bracket was still about 5mm out. There is a small notch on the inner edge in the original design that wraps around the chassis. I feel that land rovers seem to be made so differently between each truck that if you make things to perfect tolerances they don't seems to fit... Not just your and my measuring skills.

I have had to adjust a long list of aftermarket and Land Rover made parts to fit this truck and every other landy I have owned, (Mind you every other brand of truck I have had to do the same at times).

It has an High flow Intercooler, 3 core aftermarket Highflow Radiator and many other parts and all have had something that didn't line up.

[nick b]

I didn't mean the chassis needed to be ground... (Although Some weld lines do protrude in the area depending on how well the chassis has been welded).

[LowRanger]

Well that is funny :)

Wayne The second bracket was still about 5mm out. There is a small notch on the inner edge in the original design that wraps around the chassis. I feel that land rovers seem to be made so differently between each truck that if you make things to perfect tolerances they don't seems to fit... Not just your and my measuring skills.

I have had to adjust a long list of aftermarket and Land Rover made parts to fit this truck and every other landy I have owned, (Mind you every other brand of truck I have had to do the same at times).

It has an High flow Intercooler, 3 core aftermarket Highflow Radiator and many other parts and all have had something that didn't line up.

Yes there is a metal fold where the ear mount is attached to the chassis,and it looks about 5mm.I know what you mean about nothing fitting,everything I seem to try and fit requires adjustment,but everyone seems to tell you that noone else has had a problem:D

[GoldCloverLeaf]

I can't comment on the rear arms but i can say the superflex arms went in easily without drama and the holes lined up perfectly. The only fiddly bit was punching in the washers either side of the bushing crush tubes to make up the Patrol/ Defender bushing size difference, but no biggie really, put them in after work one evening.

[nick b]

Yeah front arms are fantastic. Rears will be to once the top bracket it finalised.

What size were the front crush tubes as for some reason mine never had any where the front bolt mounts on passenger side.... Have some left over tube I can cut to size from making parts for the tray so can cut and fit that instead.

[nick b]

Don't see crush tube on the Superior site for the Superflex kit either.

I have noticed the Spacer washer kit to move front diff forward has made a big difference even at rest to where the back of the wheel would normally scrub the guard on the upstroke.

[GoldCloverLeaf]

Just to clarify - the crush tubes are moulded into the Patrol rubber bushes that come pressed into the arms ready to fit.

[Steve223]

hm as I am still thinking to get a long travel set up I was wondering whether someone actually tested the effectivity? I read on LRA web site that he tested it and everything above 2 something inch additional travel may look nice but does not increase in off-road capabilities

http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/contents/en-us/d680.html

yes sorry did not mean this in relation to the super flex arms but rather the long travel suspension in general

[uninformed]

hm as I am still thinking to get a long travel set up I was wondering whether someone actually tested the effectivity? I read on LRA web site that he tested it and everything above 2 something inch additional travel may look nice but does not increase in off-road capabilities

Pros,Cons & Myths (http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/contents/en-us/d680.html)

#1 Id say LRA can not have tested these arms.

#2 you have to take that info in the context it is written...

[uninformed]

How much longer than standard are the SE bolt in rear arms?

How much further back is the the pivot point of the chassis bracket of the SE arms vs Stock?

[nick b]

Steve, I lot of Land Rover nuts are running extended shock mounts front and rear so as to correctly fit longer shocks.

Those user that are running longer shocks with mounts to suit do get a lot more travel especially when they run spring to suite the load they are carrying front to rear and if they match the spring length etc etc (plenty of opinions out there).

Biggest issue with land rover suspension that everyone has had whether its running stock length spring or not. The front radius arms restrict articulation and cause the rear end to do most of the work. Hence the truck becomes very unbalanced and dangerous off road (don't get me wrong Land Rover in stock form can go a long way off road).

If you go back and read all the posts in this thread you will see a fare few different suspension setups. A lot are great... BUT when you are cross axles and the front bushings are bound up the sudden weight shift can be rather scary or cause damage to trail or truck. This has been an eternal dream for drivers of Land Rovers, Patrol and land cruiser drivers that didn't want to go for a 3 link front end etc as any major mods to free up the front suspension has always caused the trucks to be dangerous on road.

The point of the Superflex arms is to gain the benefits of radius arms onroad feel and the safe better balanced articulation off road.

Their is plenty of other users on this board that can do a better job of explaining than myself. But have a read of this thread and photos explaining the different setups and hopefully you will get to a place that will allow you to work out your preferences and needs.

[nick b]

Wayne the pivot point and the length that the diff sits from before i fitted is a little better.

One thing to note my old arms were both slightly bent which could be why when I measured the difference the new arms allow the diff to sit about 15mm further from the pivot point. Looks like the arms is setup to be the same length as standard but cycle better without binding and wearing the bushes as quick at full articulation.
One of my old arms was bent more than the other... e.g. when I measured one side compared to the other a 5mm difference between the two (20mm and 15mm).

[LowRanger]

Wayne the pivot point and the length that the diff sits from before i fitted is a little better.

One thing to note my old arms were both slightly bent which could be why when I measured the difference the new arms allow the diff to sit about 15mm further from the pivot point. Looks like the arms is setup to be the same length as standard but cycle better without binding and wearing the bushes as quick at full articulation.
One of my old arms was bent more than the other... e.g. when I measured one side compared to the other a 5mm difference between the two (20mm and 15mm).

Thanks for that Nick,but I think this info was meant to be directed to Serg.;)

[nick b]

Ha.. yes it was Wayne.

Serg Wayne was correct. The length and Pivot comments were for you :D

[Steve223]

can some one explain the "swerve test" and why long radius arms would cause a problem?


here is a video of the swerve test I did for my D2's engineering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuATJT3wH_w

[GoldCloverLeaf]

The LRA article refers to increased articulation with retained springs - he refers to unretained springs or 'drop axles' as ' extremely dangerous'... which they would be, if you were going to jump the thing! Otherwise he's correct, long travel shocks are going to do S.F.A. if you only have 50mm of with lift with your typical retained springs.

Watching a comp truck with unretained springs vs a comp truck with long, soft retained spings (that would be completely undriveable on the road) look about as equally unstable in my eyes in off camber stuff, keeping a low centre of gravity is more important.

[uninformed]

here is a video of the swerve test I did for my D2's engineering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuATJT3wH_w

no way in hell my Defender would do 160km/h!





unless down a mine shaft :D

[Jeff]

no way in hell my Defender would do 160km/h!





unless down a mine shaft :D

I was just thinking the same.

Jeff

:rocket:

[nick b]

Tested the arms out in some culverts and imbankments near the house in rear wheel drive only and couldn't find anything hard enough....76648

[nick b]

76649

Another angle couldn't get any cross axle stuff.

[LowRanger]

Tested the arms out in some culverts and imbankments near the house in rear wheel drive only and couldn't find anything hard enough....76648

Nick
You don't need any more travel than that,if you can get the same travel from the front,keeping things balanced,then you are on the track to a broad grin :D

[nick b]

Yeah agree Wayne. The jury is still out on my front Springs. I need to find something that is really cross axled. I think I need a Spring that is physically longer that will still sit at rest at similar height. Once I get some more time testing, measuring and weighing I will have a better idea.

[nick b]

76992

Tested the suspension on the 30 degree ramp at Superior Engineering and we took a few pics. The front shock bottomed out and the tyre rubbed a little front of the wheel well (I have already trimmed 3" off in case you are wondering). The front shock on the extended side had about 10mm more droop left).

Rear end will work better once the spare goes on and fuel tank has more fuel.

[nick b]

76996

Just remember I already have home made GL extended shock mounts and +5" longer shocks.

[nick b]

76997
Not bad for stock soft county springs, extended shocks and a set of arms aye.

I forgot to mention this is without a front prop shaft. Can't wait till it the prop shaft adapter arrives and we get it cross axled

[nick b]

76998

[nick b]

Am amazed Greg at superior didn't hurt himself laughing when on the first attempt up the ramp my clutch foot slipped and the old girl fell off the ramp...:eek::p

[LowRanger]

Am amazed Greg at superior didn't hurt himself laughing when on the first attempt up the ramp my clutch foot slipped and the old girl fell off the ramp...:eek::p

It is looking like it is coming along nicely Nick.I was talking to Greg the other day,and he said he was waiting for you to go there.So I guess all the relevant points have been noted with the arms.Although Greg won't be able to do anything for a few weeks now anyway.

[nick b]

The bushes and rear arms don't bind at all.

The biggest restriction on suspension is the shocks and the rear a frame ball joint.

[nick b]

Managed to get out and do some testing offroad to see how it all works in the real world. we still have some work to do on getting better spring rates and maybe a wider angle rear ball joint. Let a far few people have a drive so I could see how it was working.

Biggest issue was the fact the Fuel Lift pump went on the way there and we had to deal with the fact the engine kept lacking power or would srtuggle to idle after she did get some rpm (lift pump on the way though).

Land Rover Redemption 110 testing Superflex and Superior ar - YouTube

Land Rover Redemption 110 build suspension testing - YouTube

[LowRanger]

Looks ok Nick,but I would retain the rears and possibly give up a little at the rear to maintain stability.

[nick b]

Yeah I will wait till the spare is in the back and then work out what length spring I need so that it doesn't need to use the relocation cones. I also have to be mind full of the fact that I will be making a bracket and bar for the back of the tray that is removable to hold Mtn Bikes and when they are not on there a roof top tent. The truck handles differently than expected off road with the chassis shortened and the tank moved to be over the rear diff.

I thought the longer and softer rear county springs would have made up some of the gap in the rear.

Once the spare is on and I have made the bracket for the roof top tent I may need to remove the coils in the back and run Airbags like a few others have done.

[clive22]

Hi

I would like to re-retain the springs at the rear on the top mount of my County 110. Superior engineering arms super-flex will then go in the front as well, after I swap over the front diff.

The reason is too balance the front and rears suspension. Its a bit like nicks truck in the vids all rear. Locking in one end of the spring will effectively double the rotational stiffness of the rear axle, without increasing the spring rate.


What products are out there to firmly secure the rear springs (ie not hose clamps) of a defender/county and replace the now unwanted dislocation cones?

Have people being raising the upper seat bracket to allow a longer spring as a matter of interest and what lengths rear springs are people running?

Thanks


Clive

[nick b]

Clive, the guys at APT fabrications make brackets to suite.

[Naks]

speak of flex, does anyone know of a swaybar disconnect kit for the Puma 90?

X-Eng in the UK makes on for the 110, but not the 90.

[Steve223]

speak of flex, does anyone know of a swaybar disconnect kit for the Puma 90?



X-Eng in the UK makes on for the 110, but not the 90.


LRA has one in the making supposedly ready within next couple of weeks

[Naks]

LRA has one in the making supposedly ready within next couple of weeks



Thanks Steve, link for LRA pls?

[Steve223]

Thanks Steve, link for LRA pls?


Sorry Les Richmond Automotive give Andrew a call and say hello from Steve

[Naks]

Sorry Les Richmond Automotive give Andrew a call and say hello from Steve


too many time zones away for a phone call, will keep an eye out on the website. ;)

[Steve223]

too many time zones away for a phone call, will keep an eye out on the website. ;)


You can also watch out on Facebook if you have they post all updates there quicker then web site

[nick b]

Wayne, how long are your current springs, I will be trying to find time on the weekend to lock the current springs to the diff/chassis to measure the difference and then weigh the truck. Also hoping to snag a 35" spare if I can find a used one nearby. At the same time so I can start to work on the correct rate and length spring to aim for.

[LowRanger]

Wayne, how long are your current springs, I will be trying to find time on the weekend to lock the current springs to the diff/chassis to measure the difference and then weigh the truck. Also hoping to snag a 35" spare if I can find a used one nearby. At the same time so I can start to work on the correct rate and length spring to aim for.

Nick
I have progresive rate springs in the rear,and they are over 500mm in height

[nick b]

What about the front? I think mine are to heavy a rate and to short was considering the progressive in the front and similar in the back(but may go the airbag in the rear depending how the Rooftopper effects things).

[LowRanger]

What about the front? I think mine are to heavy a rate and to short was considering the progressive in the front and similar in the back(but may go the airbag in the rear depending how the Rooftopper effects things).

Nick

I cant remember the free length of the front,they are Linear as I prefer the stability offered by Linear rate springs in the front in extreme offroad situations,compared to the more flexible nature of progressive rate springs of comparable rate.

[Presto]

I'm running some Dobinson Rangey Rears in the front, as the Dobs dedicated defender fronts have a very short free length and are much stiffer. I wanted a softer spring. The flex is currently limited by the 12" 7100's I'm running, with the springs still not coil-bound on the compressed side.
However, I think mine are still a little too stiff.

Part no. C51-015
Free Length 430mm
Rate 237lbs

I do still have to fit a front winch bar and high mount, so the extra weight may change my opinion - only time will tell!

[Grimace]

Just FYI lovells have two spring choices that I fancy for use up front.
RRR33, 440mm free length 220lb rate
RRR6, 437mm free length 190lb rate

They are both listed as landrover rear raised spring.
I think depending on the front bias and weight of the vehicle the RRR6 will give a lift off 2 or 3 inches. The RRR33 will give roughly almost an inch more lift if put on the same vehicle.

[rick130]

Just FYI lovells have two spring choices that I fancy for use up front.
RRR33, 440mm free length 220lb rate
RRR6, 437mm free length 190lb rate

They are both listed as landrover rear raised spring.
I think depending on the front bias and weight of the vehicle the RRR6 will give a lift off 2 or 3 inches. The RRR33 will give roughly almost an inch more lift if put on the same vehicle.

Lovells will custom wind too, just like any decent spring manufacturer.

[460cixy]

Very Interesting I have dobinsons in the front and there way too stiff but I have a decent bar and winch too many bloody choices

[uninformed]

Just FYI lovells have two spring choices that I fancy for use up front.
RRR33, 440mm free length 220lb rate
RRR6, 437mm free length 190lb rate

They are both listed as landrover rear raised spring.
I think depending on the front bias and weight of the vehicle the RRR6 will give a lift off 2 or 3 inches. The RRR33 will give roughly almost an inch more lift if put on the same vehicle.

those "RRR6, 437mm free length 190lb rate" are very similar to the kings I had made for the front of my 110 ute, which if I remember correctly is about 1130kg on the weigh bridge.

[460cixy]

those "RRR6, 437mm free length 190lb rate" are very similar to the kings I had made for the front of my 110 ute, which if I remember correctly is about 1130kg on the weigh bridge.

What tray did you have on it mines 2020kg no fuel no spare no junk in the tool boxes no winch no second battery

[uninformed]

What tray did you have on it mines 2020kg no fuel no spare no junk in the tool boxes no winch no second battery

Cut down aluminium tray with no sides, only a spare tyre. I do have a tube bar and a winch. Hyd pump at lt230 and res was attached to the tray. I think my rear weight was 940kg. My rear springs are not right at 250lb/in (could be lower down to 190lb/in which would still give a higher frequency in the back given the lighter weight) but I tow....

I had 210lb/in fronts and would not go back after running these 190lb/in. I have Koni Toy 80 series +2 shocks in front (these have more bump than LR spec Konis)

[460cixy]

Interesting I should weigh mine front and rear and actually have a go as geting the springs right fronts are too heavy and rears are too light but fitted air bags in them fixed that

[rick130]

Serg, was that just a front measurement ?

A rough guess would have the total somewhere above 1800kg with your lightweight

[uninformed]

Serg, was that just a front measurement ?

A rough guess would have the total somewhere above 1800kg with your lightweight

Total was 2070kg, which seems right given LR state the kerb for a bone stock Tdi 110 pick-up as 1890kg.

My weight was with me in it, 1/2 tank fuel and all the fittings, i.e.:

MD drag rod and track link
HD rear trailing arms
HD Sliders
LT20 pto and hyd pump
Tube bar
winch
hyd fittings and components, including 20lt res.
laminated front axle housing with MD locker (hemisphere is heavier than stock)
HD sals diff guard.
HD front shock towers

It wouldnt take much for those things to add up for sure.

[remer]

Hi,

I put a set of these arms on a couple of weeks ago but after installing them I found the car pulled hard to the right under braking, I had also done some work on the brakes so put it down to this but after checking everything I finally put the old arms in and the problem has gone away.

So with the superflex arms installed when I brake heavily the car car dips on the passenger side and pulls hard right.

I have emailed Superior about this a couple of times as the do not supply any fitting instructions with the arms but it seems the do not want to know me now they have my money, last $'s they will ever get from me!

Would anybody be able to advise on the fitting of these?
Could anyone put up a picture showing where all the washers go, there's 10 supplied in the pack, I had 4 on the normal arm side(2 for each bush) 2 for the top bush on the superflex side, 1 with the spacer tube at the front and the rest packing the lower bush(I still had to add an extra washer so 11 in total used), I kept everything symmetrical and it all looked straight as I tightened everything,

Any help or ideas would be very much appreciated

Thanks

Tristan

[clive22]

Hi


I just finished putting mine and test driving it today, test drove it and it was fine better tan I expected really

Unless the arms are bent which is possible but unlikely, it must be somewhere in the set up


There domes Picts in another thread of them being set up the puma in members rides with portals if I remember right

I had problems with the washers it's slack that they don,t include a pics or diagram with where they go, ring em up and complain I lodged a verbal complaint not good enough I reckon

That said check the chassis bracket ends are equal the toe of those bushes must be seated right otherwise the arms will be an unequal length and steer to the short side. Mine where hard to seat I counted the threads on the end to check the lengths were equal.

I only used one washer per normal bush on the inside faces pushing the arms out to the wheels, they were running too close to the chassis for my comfort. No way could I fit any more washers in either.

I think the issues somewhere in your truck and you.ll have to labour to find it, still reckon superior should help though.


Best of luck


Clive

[Vern]

For those who have fitted these arms, how does it travel on the road? Any difference to normal arms?

[clive22]

Hi


Mine seems pretty much the same, just a touch more roll across the front, as iit should.

I'm about to restrain my rear axle top & bottom and install longer and softer springs so should roll more evenly across each axle after that.


Clive

[GoldCloverLeaf]

Mine drives on the road pretty much as it did before i put the arms in, although steering self-centring has improved due to the castor correction.

There is slightly more body roll at the front, but i went from superpro poly bushes in standard arms to the supplied nissan rubber bushes so this would have been more noticeable. I run no swaybars and it works fine if you drive sensibly - just drove up to Cape York and back on the roughest tracks we could find, so far i've put about 10,000kms on them, no problems so far.

I would check your wheel bearings and swivel preload just to be sure - the extra weight of the arms and the extra deflection engineered into the nissan bushes might be enough to upset the swivel's if the preload was already on the way out.

[remer]

Hi,
Thanks for the replies,

I have recently rebuilt the swivels but will check them again but fitting the old arms seems to have fixed the issue, I'll give superior a call and see what they say,
Thanks

Tristan

[clubagreenie]

Check some basics. Clamp a straight edge across the underside of the chassis to give a reference point. Then check axle location, fore/aft, L/R, etc.

Just so if (when), they say it needs a wheel alignment you can be reasonable sure its OK.

[remer]

I've called Superior and they are going to get there technical guys to give me a call . . . . .

[Vern]

Good luck remer, I gave superior a call, that was over two weeks ago, still waiting for a call back:mad:

[remer]

Still waitimg on that call . . . .

[clubagreenie]

Call 'em again. Then again.

Eventually they'll put you through just to make you stop.

[remer]

I called again yesterday and left my info again and this time they have called me back and asked me to send some pictures of how I have the arms installed.

[remer]

Ok I sent some pictures through and spoke to Greg today and it appears I had the arms installed correctly so the situation requires further investigation, I won't be able to mess around with it till next weekend but Greg had a few ideas of things to try so I'll have a play around and report back,

Tristan

[Grimace]

Just a quick update from me. I can't seem to get any more out of my front end even thou the shocks will allow it.
My final verdict is that the SF arms, in my current vehicles configuration are working possibly as good as the holey bushes. But not as good as I was expecting.

Some images and text from my members thread copied below;





https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/860.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/861.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/862.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/863.jpg

I was able to drive to the above position unlocked and all wheel are on the ground.

The next lot are pretty much full flex given the current setup. The rear wheel is just off the ground here (the track is a very slight incline). So the front is basically doing all it will ever do (IMHO);

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/864.jpg

DROOP - the shock is definitely longer then this;
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/865.jpg

COMPRESION - still off the bumps and shock is not fully compressed, but spring looks to be at the limit;
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/866.jpg

Someone forgot to tell the rear end to stop;
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/867.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/868.jpg

COMPRESSION - not much i can do about this as the tyre is hard into the arch;
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/869.jpg

DROOP - don't want any more;
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/870.jpg

Tyre has just left the ground;
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/871.jpg

Couple more for good measure;
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/872.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/873.jpg

[squidsd1]

I want everything you have that is awesome flex what setup are you running? .sorry for hijacking thread

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using AULRO mobile app

[uninformed]

Grimice, what are your spring rates? are you still running softer/less in the rear than the front?

[Grimace]

I want everything you have that is awesome flex what setup are you running? .sorry for hijacking thread

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using AULRO mobile app

14" Bilstein short bodys all round. The flex is good but the front still needs attention.


Grimice, what are your spring rates? are you still running softer/less in the rear than the front?

still running 220lb fronts and 186lb rears.

[Grimace]

Superflex arm update.
180lb fronts, still can't really get the front working as well as I'd hoped.
Car is certainly capable as is, but it's not flexing as I expected.



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1054.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1055.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1056.jpg





Keen to see others feedback, Wayne? How are your arms going. I know you have what looks to be more even flex, where as mine seems to flex the rear way more then the front in all scenarios now.
Have just fitted 250lb rear springs in place of the old to try stiffen the rear and force the front to work harder, will post results when I have them.


Also Greg? any news on the 3" version?

[Grimace]

hm as I am still thinking to get a long travel set up I was wondering whether someone actually tested the effectivity? I read on LRA web site that he tested it and everything above 2 something inch additional travel may look nice but does not increase in off-road capabilities

Pros,Cons & Myths (http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/contents/en-us/d680.html)

yes sorry did not mean this in relation to the super flex arms but rather the long travel suspension in general

Hi Steve, Some info if your still contemplating increasing your travel.

I can tell you my vehicle is absolutely more capable in the last four years with longer travel shocks, then prior when it had 10 or 11" travel shocks.

My current shocks are approx 880mm extended and 515mm compressed measured from centre of eye to centre of pin mount (not base). Custom upper mounts were required to fit them.
The up travel is only about 5 inches in the front and 4 inches in the rear, the rest is all droop.

[Grimace]

Greg did say it was very quiet in the rover department...

[Vern]

If they returned phone calls and emails they would probably get more sales. Still waiting😕

[GoldCloverLeaf]

I'm still happy with my arms, i needed castor correction arms anyway so it wasn't a huge amount more to get these. I'd say there is a 50-60% improvement of articulation over the stock arms. No, you won't get 3-link levels of articulation, but these arms provide good road handling which is important to me.

I've put around 30,000kms on the arms and no issues, still on the original bushes.

Like i said in an earlier post, the market for these arms is overseas, unfortunately there just aren't enough aussies building tough rovers, hopefully this will start changing. Am i the only one that wants to se an ex-army 110 2 door soft top on 37" sticky treps? :p

[clive22]

Hi

My two bobs worth.

I'm happy with mine. Drives well, slight lurch to side on a brake stab only real difference.. Really need some 12+ inch shocks though. Don't like the crappy washers, why not give us a single thick one at least some effort?

I can sorta see why there is no market though. Down here in Vic may people
who wants to run a very capable rig are using a Patrol as the base car.

Then maybe 80 series LCs and Hilux's there not much out there with heavily modded rovers. Plenty of 'normal' mods (2" lifts, etc) but 35s, 4 inch lifts, reduction gears, suspension component replacement etc. really not that many about.


Clive

[fatman]

If they returned phone calls and emails they would probably get more sales. Still waiting😕

+1 from me..
If i remember correctly(it's been many months) they had a form on their site instead of email address??
Don't know-don't care anymore..

[GoldCloverLeaf]

Out of curiosity, what information needs to be relayed over the phone that hasn't already been covered in this thread?

[fatman]

Out of curiosity, what information needs to be relayed over the phone that hasn't already been covered in this thread?
I don't know about phone but for internet contact,how can order,how much will cost,i they ship to Europe,european dealers on their site don't have these arms on their pages(when last checked months ago) how come they are dealers for a product that they don't advertise?
Better put those on an Ebay shop or something so people can get them..

[Vern]

Nothing. My phone conversation was something like,
Me- i want some superflex arms for my rangie and looking at some amada shocks, these are the lengths i am looking at ######### and valving to suit as i am running an isuzu engine.
Them- yeah no worries, we'll look into what valving you need and we have legths to suit, whats your name and number, will call you back in a few hours.

Guess what, nothing!

Called again a few days later to jog their memory, said they will check up on it.

Guess what, nothing!

Lost my business

[Steve223]

Hi Steve, Some info if your still contemplating increasing your travel.



I can tell you my vehicle is absolutely more capable in the last four years with longer travel shocks, then prior when it had 10 or 11" travel shocks.



My current shocks are approx 880mm extended and 515mm compressed measured from centre of eye to centre of pin mount (not base). Custom upper mounts were required to fit them.

The up travel is only about 5 inches in the front and 4 inches in the rear, the rest is all droop.


yes still in the back of my mind but so far I have not seen any difference in reality, so far I have driven everything other members of the groups with much longer travel shocks have driven.

[MR LR]

yes still in the back of my mind but so far I have not seen any difference in reality, so far I have driven everything other members of the groups with much longer travel shocks have driven.
Given that your D2 is locked in the rear with an ATB up front and traction control, I'd have thought your theory was incorrect by me driving up Spanish steps just after you with similar, if not less difficulty, in my open diffed, but flexy Range Rover... of course one could blame the wheelbase of our cars, as the longer vehicles seemed to be better suited to the steps. But it was a case of lockers vs. balanced flex...

A well balanced suspension goes a long way to making a car capable if one is capable of driving it to suit the set-up. That is why there's a set of 12" 7100's sitting on my shelves waiting to get swapped into my mall crawling, daily - D2 :wasntme:

That same reason is why there are long travel shocks sitting there to be installed, not diff locks! I simply have no need for them in my daily, or my wheeler - it seems :p

[Steve223]

was more referring to Defender then D2 but Spanish steps where driven unlocked from memory except exit possibly though ATB is obviously still there... so far in neither vehicle I have been stopped because of to little flex. However in D2 I would not mind having longer travel shocks as I only use it for play..

Tassy trip was good example MLD with quite a bit more flex in his 130 then I have in 110 however on exit of Sawback I guess I had more airtime then he had but again 130 is also different wheelbase.

in my opinion I don't think flex will be a limiting factor whether I can drive something or not unless we talking comp trucks and rear pull down winch etc.

[LowRanger]

Superflex arm update.
180lb fronts, still can't really get the front working as well as I'd hoped.
Car is certainly capable as is, but it's not flexing as I expected.



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1054.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1055.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1056.jpg





Keen to see others feedback, Wayne? How are your arms going. I know you have what looks to be more even flex, where as mine seems to flex the rear way more then the front in all scenarios now.
Have just fitted 250lb rear springs in place of the old to try stiffen the rear and force the front to work harder, will post results when I have them.


Also Greg? any news on the 3" version?

Hi Grimace
My arms are still going well.
Haven't been out for a long time though,took my 130 to Tassie,so the 110 sat in the yard,and been busy at work ever since.
Will probably sell the 110 soon and concentrate on my 130.
I could also easily get more flex from the rear,but prefer to limit the rear,to keep F&R more balanced.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1057.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/02/1058.jpg

[Rickoz]

Having read this in full a few times this is what I get out of it by using the Superior Arms, but I could be wrong.

The Advantages are extended life from the Bushes due to they are larger Bushes in the STD Superior Arms over the Rover Arms and a bit more life again if using the Superflex Arm on the passenger side due to even a little less stress again with a extra Bush.
Flex range is determined by the shocks open/closed lengths more so than the arm Bushes its self but larger Nissan bushes may help a very small fraction.

Disadvantages due to the weight of the Arms,
Off Road probably nothing much with the normal slow driving we do so-long we keep to the same º angels?
On Road maybe Braking distance will extend a fraction longer, slower response times of the shocks with pot holes/corrugations with faster driving?


So how is my understanding of it all and have I missed something while learning on the way?

[Skiboy]

Having read this in full a few times this is what I get out of it by using the Superior Arms, but I could be wrong.

The Advantages are extended life from the Bushes due to they are larger Bushes in the STD Superior Arms over the Rover Arms and a bit more life again if using the Superflex Arm on the passenger side due to even a little less stress again with a extra Bush.
Flex range is determined by the shocks open/closed lengths more so than the arm Bushes its self but larger Nissan bushes may help a very small fraction.

Disadvantages due to the weight of the Arms,
Off Road probably nothing much with the normal slow driving we do so-long we keep to the same º angels?
On Road maybe Braking distance will extend a fraction longer, slower response times of the shocks with pot holes/corrugations with faster driving?


So how is my understanding of it all and have I missed something while learning on the way?I have warn through two sets of chassis bushes in last two years with superior arms. First set came with arms second set were rover ones. Rubber ones - tears them lengthwise. Poped one rear one over washer and nut. Not sure why but never had an issue with rover arms.

[uninformed]

More weight on the front should help traction and decrease brake distance if lock up is avoided...

Bush ware at the chassis is likely to be increased due to the larger range of movement now offered by the less restricted nature of the axle bushes and arm design.

heavier arm will be a harsher ride but could be tuned somewhat with shock valving. The fact a person is running these arms is probably going to go hand in hand with a spring lift. This changes the front arm angle, which in itself leads to a more harsh ride.

[Skiboy]

More weight on the front should help traction and decrease brake distance if lock up is avoided...

Bush ware at the chassis is likely to be increased due to the larger range of movement now offered by the less restricted nature of the axle bushes and arm design.

heavier arm will be a harsher ride but could be tuned somewhat with shock valving. The fact a person is running these arms is probably going to go hand in hand with a spring lift. This changes the front arm angle, which in itself leads to a more harsh ride.I have to add i am very happy with the Superior Super Flex arms. I also used their remote reservoir armada (sp?) Shocks to get longer travel front and rear.

Prior i had bent 2x arms so the heavier ones should survive rocks better.

Had nothing but great service from them including when i returned shocks to get longer ones.

[Grimace]

Took me long enough but finally got some really good results from the superior superflex arms.
Front is now outflexing the rear for the entire length of it's travel, and for me this is the ultimate combo, as I now have a huge amount of easily obtainable front end movement and equally as large amount of travel from the rear.
This vehicle is absolutely a breeze to crawl!

https://image.ibb.co/kem65z/20180819_130708.jpg


https://image.ibb.co/dK8KQz/20180819_130054.jpg


https://image.ibb.co/knYQyK/20180817_160131.jpg


https://image.ibb.co/iSOEse/20180819_130126.jpg

[Skiboy]

Any secrets you want to share on how you achieved this Grimace?
From pic seem to have a light weight but stretched front springs
skiboy

[discomatt69]

Watching this with interest, I have a D1 with SE superflex arms but with my old Dobinson 2 inch springs and 2 inch Bilstien shockers and its just not soft enough or flexxy for what it now gets used for ...
better to get some good advise from those that have finally got it right rather than experiment and wast cash

[Grimace]

Any secrets you want to share on how you achieved this Grimace?
From pic seem to have a light weight but stretched front springs
skiboy

This is correct - Front is 157lb, rear is 235lb
I can now reduce the rear if I like as the front is working harder in all scenarios at present. Possibly going to a 200lb spring, obviously load carrying capabilities will be reduced.

My next plan is to replace all four 7100s (aiming for valving of approx 360/120 front and 400/120 rear) and add hydro bumps to the front.