Superior Engineering Superflex arms for Rovers.

[kreecha]

Hi guys,
I have been in contact with Superior Engineering about Superflex arms for my D1. They have commenced R&D, and their reply on their facebook page last night was that they have even purchased a Land Rover a few months ago, but they got behind in some R&D work on shocks and that took abit longer than expected. They go on to say that they should be back on track pretty soon to get them underway.

Now I don't know about you guys but I would like a set of Superflex arms to
fit to my D1, and I would like to increase the amount of travel out of the front end suspension. We regularly use the car for touring, and over the last month when driving Hardies Track at Mary River N.P. I found that when travelling over dried pig diggings and buffalo tracks (with my goodyear mt/r's @ 20psi) the front wheels were (whilst comfortable) still not performing and following the earth how I want them to and it is for this reason I would prefer less restriction in the front suspension.

At the moment the Disco does not have a front sway bar, and the limiting factor is the bushes (and shocks). I am aware I can drill (slot) the bushes to increase travel, but I know I will do this at the loss of the long service intervals, and on-road handling and I am not keen on that. If I was to drill the bushes I can then install longer shocks only to find that the bushes will bind again. Noting I already know I will chase my tail I have not set-off down this path. The rear suspension moves through it's travel arc pretty well as standard owing to the rear A-frame, leaving the front for dead, and when travelling across some of the short, sharp, but deep erosion gullies we get in the top end the front feels as though it could offer more to keep the vehicle flatter, more stable, and more predictable across the gully's.

Due to the close proximity of the radius arm bushes to the front and rear of the diff housing an x-link Glen Dobbin style is not possible and this is impacted also by the panhard design and mounting location. The small diameter of the OEM LandRover bushes is also inhibitive to travel, and the restrictions of space for fitting a 3 link make that excessively time consuming, clearly Superior Engineering super flex arms are a logical choice.

Furthermore, GU/GQ/Toyota arms only fit 1 type of vehicle per arm design (albeit a very highly regarded and in demand vehicle), super flex arms for a Land Rover should fit the Range Rover Classic, Discovery Series 1, Def 90, Def 110, and Def 130's making that market for the product vast.

And If I may be so bold; I am assuming that the Land Rover design may have to mimic that of the 100 series cruiser with the "wishbone" shape, if Superior Engineering do make some, I have asked them if possible could they use toyota/nissan bushes in the passenger side where the arms mount to the super flex plates supplied so that more flex is available due to the larger diameter of the toyota/nissan bushes.

Noting Superior Engineering already make a good product that is clearly needed by Land Rover Nutters (the world over) I hope to hear more promising news soon.

Anyway this is my rant done.

Anyone else interested in superflex arms?

Cheers, Adam.

[rick130]

10" travel shocks and urethane bushes after I replaced the worn out Haultech holey ones, so the front end isn't too shabby for a daily driver.

This was one of a number of pics on a thread from quite a few years back, but the image hoster went belly up.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/technical-chatter/25918d1275717071-your-110-suspension-imga0299-copy.jpg



The springs are dislocating in that pic (17" free length)

I'd been meaning to get in touch with Fulcrum/Super pro about getting some urethane bushes cast with the holes as Haultech used to, or just getting another set and machining them out on a mill, obtain some longer dampers and experiment a little more but just couldn't be arsed these days.

Obviouslywith a hinged radius arm you'll get more travel.

[Bush65]

Adam this has been done to a rover many years before Superior came out with their arms. See pics below - in this case a stock radius arm was cut and shut. The first 2 pics show stock LH arm relocated above the axle. last 2 show modded RH radius arm.

What your post suggests is all good IMHO. Remember that rover changed the mounting/bush width at the axle end some stage in 90's. Edit: the chassis bush end also changed. (end edit)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/1154.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/1155.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/1156.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/1157.jpg

[Grimace]

I have been waiting for the arms to be available for some time now.

Keen to see the results. Lately I have been extremely happy with the front holey bushes offroad. Unfortunately they can be a handful on road at times once worn out.

[Grimace]

holey bushes are extremely worn out now...

[Barefoot Dave]

Hmmmm, Superior are only 15 mins away, migt have to go for a spy visit and see what they are up to for the Green Oval.
:-)

[kreecha]

Hmmmm, Superior are only 15 mins away, migt have to go for a spy visit and see what they are up to for the Green Oval.
:-)

Any luck Barefoot?

[Slunnie]

Can you refabricate the axle mounts to use Superior Engineering Patrol radius arms?

[uninformed]

Can you refabricate the axle mounts to use Superior Engineering Patrol radius arms?

wouldnt this also mean fabricating new chassis mounts? And Im thinking an arm based on Rovers closer bush spacing would flex better than the one based on the wide nissan spacing...

there was talk on outers a while ago from Greg I think regarding superior doing Rover arms...

[Bush65]

wouldnt this also mean fabricating new chassis mounts? And Im thinking an arm based on Rovers closer bush spacing would flex better than the one based on the wide nissan spacing...

there was talk on outers a while ago from Greg I think regarding superior doing Rover arms...
No need to change chassis mount for Nissan Arms. I have Nissan axles in my bushie (stock 110 chassis) with Superior superflex arms.

Over the next couple of days, whenever I get a chance, I'll look into your question about making different brackets to use the Nissan superflex arm in a Landie. I suspect the problem for a simple bolt on mod vs new welded brackets will be the location of the stock bolt for the rear mount on the landie front axle.

[clubagreenie]

There's potential for the arms also to be fitted for the D2. The D2 has a different chassis end yes, and different diff end bushes bit if they are using their plate design it should only mean a different end welded on at the chassis end and different plate.

[wagoo]

Are these arms DOT engineerable? Yeah I know! never bothered me before.:)

Bill.

[Bush65]

No need to change chassis mount for Nissan Arms. I have Nissan axles in my bushie (stock 110 chassis) with Superior superflex arms.

Over the next couple of days, whenever I get a chance, I'll look into your question about making different brackets to use the Nissan superflex arm in a Landie. I suspect the problem for a simple bolt on mod vs new welded brackets will be the location of the stock bolt for the rear mount on the landie front axle.
Had a quick look and it might be worth going to more trouble to confirm. Will need more time to get around to this.


Are these arms DOT engineerable? Yeah I know! never bothered me before.:)

Bill.
I think they have the usual disclaimer ;)

[Bush65]

This pic shows a superflex RA for a patrol against a stock 110 RA, the bolt passing through the mounting bushes to align the 2 RA's.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/749.jpg

This pic shows the difference at the chassis end of the RA's. Because patrol bushes at the axle end are spaced further apart, that accounts for the difference in length seen in this pic.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/750.jpg

This pic shows the 110 RA on top of the superflex RA.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/751.jpg

The next pics show the superflex RA in place on a 110 front axle, positioned so the chassis end is where it would need to be in the vehicle.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/752.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/753.jpg

So it would be possible to make adaptor plates to use the patrol superflex arm in a rover, but I would prefer an arm made so the top bush uses the stock rear bolt hole. This bush would need to be similar diameter to stock rover. The lower bush could be the later style patrol bush as they provide more flex.

[Barefoot Dave]

I haven't been up to Superior yet. Yer, yer, only 15 mins away! But it is finding the hour to get there, drool and get back.
Later next week, I'll be on holidays then.
Dave.

[1MadEngineer]

Hi guys,
I am the guy who design and developed the superflex arms, I have been working on the designs for rovers as well during the last 6 months. Guys that know me, know how fussy I am about getting it spot on before releasing them for sale. I bought a disco a few months back purely for testing and development work for all the possible upgrades. If you guys have a wish list of stuff please let me know and I can get to work designing it!

cheers
Greg

[Barefoot Dave]

G'day Greg. Thanks for the intro.
I don't have much to add, I've never fitted extra flex suspension. I do have a D2 and I am just down the higway if you need some measurements etc.
Can you let us in on any other parts for the Rover line of products?
Cheers, B Dave.

[uninformed]

Hi Greg,

what are the arms made from?
how is the pin end done? (tapped, welded or machined one piece?)

[1MadEngineer]

Hi Greg,

what are the arms made from?
how is the pin end done? (tapped, welded or machined one piece?)

all Superior arms are 32mm gr350, The pins are 4140 and are welded full penetration then CNC machined back to stress relieve the joint. Sure it is a massive overkill but thier quality is second to none. Every hole and boss is CNC'd even the logo on the side.

Greg

[Grimace]

Hi All

I sent Greg a PM on outers just a couple of minutes ago following up on these arms.
Then I was just logging into this thread to see if there had been any updates and to notify all that I was contacting Greg and would inform of any feedback.

But Greg is already here, good to see you on board Greg, and excited to hear ideas for further developments in the land rover scene.


Cheers
Grimace

[uninformed]

all Superior arms are 32mm gr350, The pins are 4140 and are welded full penetration then CNC machined back to stress relieve the joint. Sure it is a massive overkill but thier quality is second to none. Every hole and boss is CNC'd even the logo on the side.

Greg

Thanks Greg,

I dont think there is such thing as overkill on a suspension link for a vehicle that at some point may be road going (legal or not)

Is the gr350 a type of Bisalloy? I have seen a few guys making one off custom RA from some for of Bisalloy? Not sure, but I thought BA was harder for surface ware, like on earthmoving equipemnt....???

either way, are you seeing good results from the Superior Rover SF arms?

[kreecha]

I am the guy who design and developed the superflex arms, I have been working on the designs for rovers as well during the last 6 months. Guys that know me, know how fussy I am about getting it spot on before releasing them for sale.


Wow!


It is great to see so much interest in the Superflex arms for the rover.


Hopefully our combine interest here, and potential buyers internationally will provide you guys (& superior) the fuel to rapidly complete this project and release this product onto the market. Soon. (I would like to pick some up when I go to Tuff Truck please (freight to Darwin sucks!!!) and I want to get the feel for them when I go to Lorella Springs in June prior to going to The Cape in July)


With that in mind Greg, please sneekily let me know when these are about to go into production. I have the $$ awaiting your product, and some raised shock turrets and 5" over terrafirma shocks too :D


I would be disappointed if I missed out on the initial batch.


Out of interest;
Are you making a radius arm pair, or just the single drivers side arm?


From what I understand of the Rover suspension geometry after a common 2" lift no castor correction is required. As such I am sure I would be happy with just the passenger side arm.

Are you looking at making the arms capable of using the factory swaybar? I have front and rear swaybars fitted and would prefer to keep it for my highway driving, and towing the camper trailer.

Looking forward to any response,
Adam.

[kreecha]

Out of interest;
Are you making a radius arm pair, or just the single drivers side arm?


I do mean passenger side arm....

And edit doesn't work on the above post.

[clubagreenie]

Albeit on a D2 but I have a 2" lift and while I do prefer the sharper steering response, it was a bit too much uncorrected. I have 3deg corrected (QT) arms and while it's not back to std (still 1.5deg out) it's now at the exact point that it's responsive on the road but not a nightmare for tracking lines in the surface.

I am curious though why you'd only go for replacing one arm?

[Slunnie]

Albeit on a D2 but I have a 2" lift and while I do prefer the sharper steering response, it was a bit too much uncorrected. I have 3deg corrected (QT) arms and while it's not back to std (still 1.5deg out) it's now at the exact point that it's responsive on the road but not a nightmare for tracking lines in the surface.

I am curious though why you'd only go for replacing one arm?
Its more about reducing the rolling resistance , something that is limited by the bushes at the axle when using radius arms.

[kreecha]

I just got off the phone to Superior and they have taken delivery of their first prototype arm/s.

Exciting to know that they have made some progress :banana:

Cheers, Adam.

[kreecha]

18th feb: Facebook update; super flex arms are 3-4 weeks away :-)

I asked to pick mine up at Tuff Truck.... hmmm I better pay for them as well :-)

Cheers, Adam.

[Slunnie]

Adam, have you seen any pics of them yet? Did they retain the pin chassis joint also?

[kreecha]

Slunnie I don't know, but they have a new chassis end for the Patrol pin, so it would not surprise me if they have also modified the Rover ones, or did at least intend to in the future.

From Facebook regarding the Patrol ones:
We will officially release our New Superflex design late this week for Nissan Patrols .The new design incorporates a Super slim Drop box with a Toyota style rear bush incorporating the Patented Superflex design. 100% bolt in and the most clearance on the market for any toyota style rear bush.
Some key benefits are smoother compression/ rebound of suspension , Much better life of the rear bushes, More stable driving platform over Nissan pin design, slightly longer to enhance drivabilty without going to long to create unsafe handling charictaristics in swerve tests.
I am very confident we will also have these street legal as well within a few weeks. Available in 2,3,4,5,6 inch lift Both Superflex and Radius arms.

And from the 13th Feb:
SUPER FLEX ARMS AND SUPERIOR RADIUS ARMS ( STREET LEGAL )
These can now be approved for street use , please contact Superior Engineering for the relevent paperwork needed and the contact details of a Brisbane Based engineer who will finalise the approval, I am working on other Engineers in other states to finalise approvals.
Swaybars need to be fitted to comply so if your arms are not drilled to suit swaybars they can be modified by Superior Engineering to accept your swaybars again.
Please call us at 0754331411 for the documents needed for approval.

Cheers, Adam.

[Slunnie]

Thanks Adam, that's some really interesting info. Hopefully they do the same eye type of arrangement and adaptor for the rover too. It's a much better setup in my opinion.

[uninformed]

Im not familar with the Toyota chassis end bush??? Not sure how they would make a bolt on kit to change the bush mount on a Rover, and cant see it being any longer???

Also, I cant see how long arms would make a swerve test worse??? I can see a big lift, stock length arm having problems in a swerve test due to high axle oversteer, but long arms???yes they may dive under braking (if long enough AND soft enough springs and shocks).

[rick130]

The TLC uses a clevis and bush, like a DII, not a pin and bush.

I think the pin is a good idea, it allows for more rotation in the radius arm during articulation than a straight hinge type eye/bush/clevis.

[clubagreenie]

As a comparison I went from std D2 arms and rubber bushes to QT coprrection arms with superpro bushes. Some said that they would limit flex so I measured before and after aand with everything else the same (springs/shocks/etc) there was actually slightly more movement (3/4") with the new arms and bushes. There was negligable difference at the chassis end, but the diff end they allowed more rotation of the arm in the diff mounting.

As a comparison I have also dome a RRC (pin ends) with superpro and these were limiting at the chassis end with reduced movement despite extra movement also at the diff end.

I do think the D2 design is better as it allows downward movement and there's a lot of rubber that can compress with arm twist where the pin design relies on the pin rotating in the bush which with the tension on it doesn't move a great deal.

[Slunnie]

I wouldn't have thought the design of the bush prevents much rotation at all with the way the bushes deflect. I would be more concerned with the drop restriction of the pin/bush setup. That can be sorted on the rear with cranked lower links, but not on the fronts. I would assume that the superior super flex arms would change over to them on the patrols if they flexed less

[clubagreenie]

Aren't they changing the Patrol to the Land Cruiser design (similar to the D2).

[rick130]

I wouldn't have thought the design of the bush prevents much rotation at all with the way the bushes deflect. I would be more concerned with the drop restriction of the pin/bush setup. That can be sorted on the rear with cranked lower links, but not on the fronts. I would assume that the superior super flex arms would change over to them on the patrols if they flexed less

The chassis/pin end isn't the limiting factor though, it's the diff end with bush distortion that limits flex.

With my own testing between holey bushes and Super Pro I was amazed at how much twist/rotation took place in the radius arm and how allowing this rotation helps take a bit of load off the deflection of the diff bushes.

If you use the right Super Pro bush at the chassis end (there are two versions for classic style front ends) there is no limit from the pin end at all, the limiting factor is the diff end bushes.

I max out my 10" travel shocks and Wayne/Lowranger has 11.5 or 12" shocks and he's getting full flex with the Super Pro bushes and long, soft springs, which isnt' bad at all for radius arms.

I can't workout how to get a piccy up from the phone ATM so I'll upload it later, but the 'better' Super Pro pin end bush has a groove around it's periphery to allow for more bush distortion, much like their rear lower trailing arm/chassis bush, which allow much more flex than stock too.

[kreecha]

The chassis/pin end isn't the limiting factor though, it's the diff end with bush distortion that limits flex.

With my own testing between holey bushes and Super Pro I was amazed at how much twist/rotation took place in the radius arm and how allowing this rotation helps take a bit of load off the deflection of the diff bushes.

If you use the right Super Pro bush at the chassis end (there are two versions for classic style front ends) there is no limit from the pin end at all, the limiting factor is the diff end bushes.

I max out my 10" travel shocks and Wayne/Lowranger has 11.5 or 12" shocks and he's getting full flex with the Super Pro bushes and long, soft springs, which isnt' bad at all for radius arms.

I can't workout how to get a piccy up from the phone ATM so I'll upload it later, but the 'better' Super Pro pin end bush has a groove around it's periphery to allow for more bush distortion, much like their rear lower trailing arm/chassis bush, which allow much more flex than stock too.

Rick do you have part numbers for these bushes you speak of that offer more flex?

Cheers, Adam

[LowRanger]

When I spoke to the guys at Superior about a month ago,I was told the same thing and the same timeframe that is now posted on their website.So I wouldn't get too excited just yet.It looks like the Rover arms have just been put on the back burner,while they have lots of orders coming in for Toyo's and Nisans.The Superior arms are being made to fit a D1,so if they change the chassis end design then they probably won't be a direct fit for Defenders,due to the chassis differences.Hopefully they will keep the chassis end pin design,as I would be happy with even 2" more flex,as 14" should be plenty:D

[uninformed]

can some one explain the "swerve test" and why long radius arms would cause a problem?

[Bush65]

I don't recall the exact details for the swerve test, but basically it standardises (so all tests are identical) an extreme lane change manouver. A number of witches hats are set up in a row at defined spaces and the vehicle has to be driven at a defined speed in and out of the hats.

I have seen it set out in documents for conducting the test, but can't point you to them.

Some years ago, when the NSW 4wd association and the aftermarket manufactures were battling with the NSW government of proposed legislation on vehicle mods, they used a few different makes of 4wd, and tested and videoed stock and a variety of aftermarket suspension upgrades (spring + shockie, with and without lifts, but not extreme lifts or control arms type stuff) and IIRC all of the tests with aftermarket spring lifts performed the swerve test as good or better than the stock vehicles. Did this convince the legislators - not one iota.

Regarding the 2nd part of your question, sorry I don't know.

[rick130]

Here's what the 'flexier' SP pin end bush looks like.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=57189&stc=1&d=1361842718



Part #'s should be in the SP online catalogue.

[1MadEngineer]

Sorry for the slow updates guys.

Stocker test rig

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1298.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/1MadEngineer/media/IMG_8868_zps8b95a968.jpg.html)


Single Superflex arm, stock everything! rear sway bar no front swaybar.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1299.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/1MadEngineer/media/IMG_8857_zpsad646399.jpg.html)

I will have the new dropped radius arms ready to test by mid week and will post up some pics soon as.

[kreecha]

Thanks for keeping us updated.

Shame they weren't ready earlier so I could take a set to test at cape York in a fortnight.

Cheers, Adam.

[1MadEngineer]

the radius arms are getting there at last and I should have a 2" and 4" test set in the next week or so.

They are seriously beefy! 32mm gr350 plate

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1211.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/1MadEngineer/media/radarmcomparo_zpsd9f0d1d8.jpg.html)

they work well as a full set - radius + superflex arms.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1212.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/1MadEngineer/media/frontarmset_zpsd3e79da7.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1213.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/1MadEngineer/media/sidearmset_zpsbeec1d8b.jpg.html)

cheers
Greg

[kreecha]

Greg,
Thanks for the pics.

Just to check;
-What bushes are they in the arms at the diff end?
-What bushes are used at the chassis end?
-Are you developing shocks to compliment the extra travel?

Cheers, Looking forward to hearing from you,
Adam.

[LowRanger]

luckily these arms will fit a real Land Rover and not just mums school bus;)

[1MadEngineer]

Greg,
Thanks for the pics.

Just to check;
-What bushes are they in the arms at the diff end?
-What bushes are used at the chassis end?
-Are you developing shocks to compliment the extra travel?

Cheers, Looking forward to hearing from you,
Adam.

bit of a secret at the moment, but they are readily available and waaaaaaaay better than the rover ones, and cheaper to replace. They are available in std and holey! for those that want the extra flex. The chassis end also uses a bush with slightly more rubber, they also allow the use of billet cup washers and spacer to move the front diff forward if required, as cheap upgrades.

For shocks I have some awesome upgrades and at prices that will blow many away. I am hoping to sort out - adjustable remote res profenders for around $325 each .(same build as the TF 11") Also looking at Amada remote res (similar to patrol) for under $300. Sizing will START at 9" travel and go well over 12".

How does that sound?

[LowRanger]

bit of a secret at the moment, but they are readily available and waaaaaaaay better than the rover ones, and cheaper to replace. They are available in std and holey! for those that want the extra flex. The chassis end also uses a bush with slightly more rubber, they also allow the use of billet cup washers and spacer to move the front diff forward if required, as cheap upgrades.

For shocks I have some awesome upgrades and at prices that will blow many away. I am hoping to sort out - adjustable remote res profenders for around $325 each .(same build as the TF 11") Also looking at Amada remote res (similar to patrol) for under $300. Sizing will START at 9" travel and go well over 12".

How does that sound?

I need these things finished ASAP:D
And need shocks that are well over 12",as I already have 11.5" shocks and max them out.The problem isn't the extended length,it is getting a longer shock,that doesn't extend the closed length too much....... so when will my arms and shocks be ready ?:D:D

[1MadEngineer]

I need these things finished ASAP:D
And need shocks that are well over 12",as I already have 11.5" shocks and max them out.The problem isn't the extended length,it is getting a longer shock,that doesn't extend the closed length too much....... so when will my arms and shocks be ready ?:D:D

can you get me the closed and open lenght please and i will see what i have suitable.

[LowRanger]

can you get me the closed and open lenght please and i will see what i have suitable.

Yep,I could do that,but I would probably need to change them when you get these supaflex arms finished.

[clubagreenie]

Might be interested in shocks when available for D2.

[rick130]

How have you found the quality of the Profender and Amada dampers so far ?
How well do the shafts hold up compared to Bilstein and Fox under gravel attack ?

How is small parts pricing, eg. pistons, shims, piston bands, shaft seals, etc. ?

Might be interested in a few, have some damping things I've always wanted to try out and these might be a cost effective way of doing it.

[kreecha]

bit of a secret at the moment, but they are readily available and waaaaaaaay better than the rover ones, and cheaper to replace. They are available in std and holey! for those that want the extra flex. The chassis end also uses a bush with slightly more rubber, they also allow the use of billet cup washers and spacer to move the front diff forward if required, as cheap upgrades.

For shocks I have some awesome upgrades and at prices that will blow many away. I am hoping to sort out - adjustable remote res profenders for around $325 each .(same build as the TF 11") Also looking at Amada remote res (similar to patrol) for under $300. Sizing will START at 9" travel and go well over 12".

How does that sound?

Greg,
That sounds like exactly what I would expect from you :-)

Cheers.

[1MadEngineer]

How have you found the quality of the Profender and Amada dampers so far ?
How well do the shafts hold up compared to Bilstein and Fox under gravel attack ?

How is small parts pricing, eg. pistons, shims, piston bands, shaft seals, etc. ?

Might be interested in a few, have some damping things I've always wanted to try out and these might be a cost effective way of doing it.
original Amada shafts were s45c, late models are s50c. So same material and quality as the others. Profender are usually seen in rovers with the initials T___F___ stuck on them ;) except we do them with adjusters on the res as well!! :twisted: As far as lasting in Oz there are thousands of them being punished under 3+ton patrols and cruisers.
Parts are all in stock, as well as all the shims for tuning. I have even sorted out a small nitrogen charge kit for the guys that want to tune / refresh the shocks themselves. http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/store.php?cPath=2359_2362_2445&osCsid=e082a93ce6646d5077a7f7e4954d5f8f

http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/product_thumb.php?w=&h=0&img=images/Pump%20up%20kit%20wat.jpg




hope that helps.

[rick130]

Cheers, thanks for that.
Clever nitro charger, but I have bottles, reg, etc, thanks ;)

[Benny_IIA]

Greg,
Thanks for the pics.

Just to check;
-What bushes are they in the arms at the diff end?
-What bushes are used at the chassis end?
-Are you developing shocks to compliment the extra travel?

Cheers, Looking forward to hearing from you,
Adam.

look like gu patrol bushes to me.

also will they be sold in std castor?

[rick130]

look like gu patrol bushes to me.

also will they be sold in std castor?


That's what I thought too.

[Benny_IIA]

That's what I thought too.

and i think i read they come in non 'holey' which would be gq?

not sure why the big secert?

[1MadEngineer]

and i think i read they come in non 'holey' which would be gq?

not sure why the big secert?
yeah not quite! :D the ones in the pics are custom made for us and have a 'rover' size'ish center pin.

A Question for you guys: what lift sizes are most popular? I have done 0,2,3,4 so far but is 5 and 6 going to be an overkill.

cheers
Greg

[Grimace]

Hi Greg,

I think 4" lift would be a responsible max.

Most guys with any more then this are not interested in the castor being 100% spot on, nor would they be doing any speed events, so the 4" arms would be sufficient for them.

eg. 5 & 6" lift with 4" SF arms would be like the current lot with 2-3" lift and no castor correction.

Cheers
Grimace

[LowRanger]

yeah not quite! :D the ones in the pics are custom made for us and have a 'rover' size'ish center pin.

A Question for you guys: what lift sizes are most popular? I have done 0,2,3,4 so far but is 5 and 6 going to be an overkill.

cheers
Greg

Yes way too much,you don't need that much lift on a Land Rover

[uninformed]

Also remember some dont like to castor correct with the arms, and its alot easier to correct castor at the swivel ball on a Rover than the Toy/Nissans are.

If you are running soft enough springs to get the gain out of these arms and the rear link set up on a Rover, having anything over 3-4 inch lift in the springs is going to net huge axle roll axis oversteer and not be very friendly on the road.

but each to their own. I already gave you guys a little plug on Pirate4x4 in the Rover section.

[kreecha]

My vote is as I am sure you are already aware of Greg; 2".

Reason being, I can fit 235/85r16's nicely. They suit me for wheeling/touring, the lift suits my wife for daily driving (one car family), and we have our Tvan with matched tyre size.

[1MadEngineer]

sorry for the slow reply, i have been off competing at farm fantastic all weekend. Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.
I have the std height arms in the disco at the moment, and will be putting a 2" lift (+ 2" arms) on thursday, so i will get some more pics then.

cheers
Greg

[rick130]

sorry for the slow reply, i have been off competing at farm fantastic all weekend. Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.
I have the std height arms in the disco at the moment, and will be putting a 2" lift (+ 2" arms) on thursday, so i will get some more pics then.

cheers
Greg


If possible let us know the bump stop clearance to give us an idea on what you think a 2" lift is too please. :D

BTW, any idea what the remote can OD/ID is on the Profender race dampers pretty please ? :angel:

[Bush65]

If possible let us know the bump stop clearance to give us an idea on what you think a 2" lift is too please. :D

BTW, any idea what the remote can OD/ID is on the Profender race dampers pretty please ? :angel:
I don't like bump stop clearance as a measure of suspension lift. I think you could find 3 different people give 3 different measurement from the same lift, due to the angle of the bump surface on the axle at ride height.

None know whether to measure the least, max or median clearance.

Hopefully that is my rant for this week.

[rick130]

I don't like bump stop clearance as a measure of suspension lift. I think you could find 3 different people give 3 different measurement from the same lift, due to the angle of the bump surface on the axle at ride height.

None know whether to measure the least, max or median clearance.

Hopefully that is my rant for this week.

Sounds like me not liking mudguard measurements :D

FWIW I measure all three :D

Other than measuring spring loaded heights, it's the closest approximation we can make, but you're right, and for the reasons you mentioned I insisted on only one person measuring when doing car setups, just for consistency as you can easily get a mm or two difference with two sets of eyes on a tape or steel rule and a stringline.

The problem is that what is called a 2" lift on a Rangie or Disco can be close to standard on a 110, or even lower than stock when looking at the rear of a 130.
We need a standard reference and it's the closest, easiest spot I can think of.

[clubagreenie]

6" is where you start looking at portals isn't it.

Are all std front arms from same era models the same part no? If so there must be variation in either castor measurement on vehicle (not likely outside half a degree or so), location of mounts for arms or rotational location of the swivel plate to account for the variation in castor created by differing standard hights.

If not. Ignore.

[1MadEngineer]

BTW, any idea what the remote can OD/ID is on the Profender race dampers pretty please ? :angel:

46mm ID 52mm OD, which is a std size for 90% of the 2" shocks. Shims and piston are same sizing as kings

[1MadEngineer]

This is the new adjustable remote reservoir we have to go with the shocks. I will just finalize some better shock sizings as we are able to design these to suit most lifts. I have some currently that should suit 0,2,3,4" lifts (9"-11" travel!! :twisted: ) and at approx $320ea i think. How does that compare?

[clubagreenie]

What are they adjustable for? Bump or rebound + are they rebuild-able/valvable and how does the valving scale compare to known value setups (Bilstein/Fox)? End fittings, options/interchangeable? Stainless body/reservoir, hard rod covers (not plastic or flexi?

Price wise they are on the money, Fox's and Bilstein's are cheaper (on paper) from overseas but shipping is a killer. A set of Fox's from New York is over $300-.

Also: what's the OD of the remote can? I may have a lead on some cheap mounting options for you.

[LowRanger]

This is the new adjustable remote reservoir we have to go with the shocks. I will just finalize some better shock sizings as we are able to design these to suit most lifts. I have some currently that should suit 0,2,3,4" lifts (9"-11" travel!! :twisted: ) and at approx $320ea i think. How does that compare?

Not enough travel,I already have 11.5" travel in the front now,without supaflex arms.Need the supaflex arms and then work out what I will need;)

[1MadEngineer]

What are they adjustable for? Compression Bump or rebound + are they rebuild-able/valvable YES and how does the valving scale compare to known value setups (Bilstein/Fox)? #2 is OE, and 7 is ~15% stiffer. End fittings, options/interchangeable? Stainless body/reservoir, hard rod covers (not plastic or flexi?

Price wise they are on the money, Fox's and Bilstein's are cheaper (on paper) from overseas but shipping is a killer. A set of Fox's from New York is over $300-.

Also: what's the OD of the remote can? I may have a lead on some cheap mounting options for you. 52mm OD
hope that helps

[1MadEngineer]

Got a few pics of the disco with a pair of std 0" radius arms as well as one of the new rear arms.... ;)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/358.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/1MadEngineer/media/Rover%20flex%20pics/IMG_4864_zps87f64427.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/359.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/1MadEngineer/media/Rover%20flex%20pics/IMG_4867_zps2206b3da.jpg.html)

Thats a 33" tire for comparison

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/360.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/1MadEngineer/media/Rover%20flex%20pics/IMG_4871_zpsae4a9e7b.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/361.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/1MadEngineer/media/Rover%20flex%20pics/IMG_4870_zpsd72955d0.jpg.html)


With the new rear arm in for testing.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/362.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/1MadEngineer/media/Rover%20flex%20pics/IMAG0830_zpsfaab3057.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/363.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/1MadEngineer/media/Rover%20flex%20pics/IMAG0827_zps1b207ce2.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/364.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/1MadEngineer/media/Rover%20flex%20pics/IMAG0825_zps4ae58d3b.jpg.html)

[1MadEngineer]

Not enough travel,I already have 11.5" travel in the front now,without supaflex arms.Need the supaflex arms and then work out what I will need;)

The next lot of sizings will be approx
397 cc 690 oc - 11.5" travel
420 cc 736 oc - 12.4" travel
440 cc 776 oc - 13.2" travel
our open closed measurements are really good, which allows for a lot better useable travel.

[LowRanger]

The next lot of sizings will be approx
397 cc 690 oc - 11.5" travel
420 cc 736 oc - 12.4" travel
440 cc 776 oc - 13.2" travel
our open closed measurements are really good, which allows for a lot better useable travel.

Do you know how much extra travel you are getting out of the supaflex arms,that will be a determining point.Not much use ordering shocks until the arms are available and I know how much more flex they give.Looks good,I would like to ring and talk a few things over,is that possible?

[Slunnie]

Ahh, new rear arm is eye to eye! Very nice! Have you considered a (possibly generic) long arm arrangement to reduce anti-squat?

[1MadEngineer]

Ahh, new rear arm is eye to eye! Very nice! Have you considered a (possibly generic) long arm arrangement to reduce anti-squat?
I have already been thinking about them :twisted: but I am not sure if they would actually sell. Even the nissan (wanna-be comp truck) guys rarely put them on as they are waaaaaaay too hardcore--------- go figure!
Personally they are one of the first mods we do to a 4wd, but thats just me :angel:

[uninformed]

I have already been thinking about them :twisted: but I am not sure if they would actually sell. Even the nissan (wanna-be comp truck) guys rarely put them on as they are waaaaaaay too hardcore--------- go figure!
Personally they are one of the first mods we do to a 4wd, but thats just me :angel:

If there is anyway of getting them engineered im in!

[1MadEngineer]

If there is anyway of getting them engineered im in!
Been thinking about this, and I might have a solution! :twisted: and if my plan works out they should be engineerable. will chat more soon.

[rick130]

This is the new adjustable remote reservoir we have to go with the shocks. I will just finalize some better shock sizings as we are able to design these to suit most lifts. I have some currently that should suit 0,2,3,4" lifts (9"-11" travel!! :twisted: ) and at approx $320ea i think. How does that compare?


Is the CD adjuster compatible with the 7/8" shaft ?

I take it is an adjustable bleed, eg. a rotating drum with various bleed ports the same as Fox, then Penske started to use in the late eighties purely for low speed bump ?

If so, does it use a small shimmed blow off for large hits ? or is all the mid/high speed all done on the main stack/piston ?

[Slunnie]

I have already been thinking about them :twisted: but I am not sure if they would actually sell. Even the nissan (wanna-be comp truck) guys rarely put them on as they are waaaaaaay too hardcore--------- go figure!
Personally they are one of the first mods we do to a 4wd, but thats just me :angel:

:cool:

Nissan 7" lift but secretly it's for the pig rooting! :D:no2::lol2:

[LowRanger]

:cool:

Nissan 7" lift but secretly it's for the pig rooting! :D:no2::lol2:

Strange hobbies you have in the central west:D

[Slunnie]

Strange hobbies you have in the central west:D

:D

I meant the Nissan people's.... But now you mention it! :D

[LowRanger]

I can hear the dueling banjos now:eek:

[460cixy]

Any idea on the cost of these arms?

[brendanm]

Be very interested to see if these rear arms are able to be engineered. I have the cranked arms as I thought the Rose Jointed were not for road use. Up for another set of chassis end bushes at the moment. Be nice to have the articulation with a bit more longevity.

[LowRanger]

Be very interested to see if these rear arms are able to be engineered. I have the cranked arms as I thought the Rose Jointed were not for road use. Up for another set of chassis end bushes at the moment. Be nice to have the articulation with a bit more longevity.

I would rather have them cranked,to get them out of the way,and a bit more clearance.

[Slunnie]

I have already been thinking about them :twisted: but I am not sure if they would actually sell. Even the nissan (wanna-be comp truck) guys rarely put them on as they are waaaaaaay too hardcore--------- go figure!
Personally they are one of the first mods we do to a 4wd, but thats just me :angel:

Do you know what length the long arms are? I was looking at them on your site and they look like they would be a straight forward adaptation

[Bush65]

Do you know what length the long arms are? I was looking at them on your site and they look like they would be a straight forward adaptation
980 mm eye to eye, vs 710 mm eye to chassis mount face for stock rover.

[rick130]

Ahh, new rear arm is eye to eye! Very nice!


Nothing wrong with the pin end though, use the right bush at the chassis end and they have all the flex in the world as they don't bind in articulation/warp (twist) like an eye bush may unless the bush is large enough ;)

[1MadEngineer]

980 mm eye to eye, vs 710 mm eye to chassis mount face for stock rover.
pretty close, I will probably end up with 997-1000mm ctrs. The great news is my approval engineer will pass these in qld and the appropriate paperwork is done. Any NSW guys probably just need to get their engineer to chat to me and get a copy of the paperwork to allow them to be signed off. I am hoping to have these ready for official release in about 3 weeks.

[Bush65]

pretty close, I will probably end up with 997-1000mm ctrs. The great news is my approval engineer will pass these in qld and the appropriate paperwork is done. Any NSW guys probably just need to get their engineer to chat to me and get a copy of the paperwork to allow them to be signed off. I am hoping to have these ready for official release in about 3 weeks.
Fantastic news :thumbsup:

[1MadEngineer]

Thanks for all the help and ideas guys, i have been working hard on doing as much stuff as possible. I have also got the first batch of 4140 tie rods and draglinks ready to go, these are also engineer-able and can supply paperwork if required. I am working on some panhards at the moment as well as finishing some arms.

cheers
Greg

[modman]

Do the new RAs have that extra super flex on one side near the axle location points or just larger bushes with a void??
I'm wondering if you can bore standard arms to take those new(gq?) bushes, should be enough meat left.
Is there only one thickness on arm?? Or will you build to suit both types?
Thanks for catering to the rover market by the way, I've liked most of SE's gear especially the long arm kits which PLAIN work (on rovers too, I remember Sam O doing longer TAs on his RR ute years ago)
Dc

[1MadEngineer]

Do the new RAs have that extra super flex on one side near the axle location points or just larger bushes with a void??
I'm wondering if you can bore standard arms to take those new(gq?) bushes, should be enough meat left.
Is there only one thickness on arm?? Or will you build to suit both types?
Thanks for catering to the rover market by the way, I've liked most of SE's gear especially the long arm kits which PLAIN work (on rovers too, I remember Sam O doing longer TAs on his RR ute years ago)
Dc

The new arms will be available in a few different combos which work together, ie:
1 SuperFlex arm - std lift (to work with a stock Drivers side arm)
1 SuperFlex arm + 1 Radius arm - Std lift, 2" lift, 3" to come soon ( the radius arm has the bigger bushs and different rear pin config and angle)
2 Radius arms - std 0"+, 2", 3" (32mm thick radius arms with bigger bushs, new rear pin configuration and angle which allows for the use of 'cupped' bush washers or billet washers and spacers to move the diff forward).

I am also working on some swaybar disconnects to work in conjunction with the arms.

cheers
Greg

[modman]

Can you please post a pic of the 'super flex' arm ??
Thanks
Dc

[GoldCloverLeaf]

I'm starting to salivate reading all this. I'm running the Amada remote res 11" pin to pin all around with 2" lift and 2" raised shock mounts and these front arms for are the missing link (bad pun i know).

I would have held out for the profender remote res but my old shocks were shagged.

I know this is a 'how long is a piece of string' questing but when do you think the radius arms will be available? :D

[LowRanger]

I'm starting to salivate reading all this. I'm running the Amada remote res 11" pin to pin all around with 2" lift and 2" raised shock mounts and these front arms for are the missing link (bad pun i know).

I would have held out for the profender remote res but my old shocks were shagged.

I know this is a 'how long is a piece of string' questing but when do you think the radius arms will be available? :D

Back of the bus Mike:D;)

[GoldCloverLeaf]

Back of the bus Mike:D;)

Knowing you the welds will still be red hot on them as you do up the last bolts! :p

[uninformed]

Bump. Any updates?

also, just to clarify, when you say "SuperFlex arm" this means one arm with the axle end bushes closer together than factory and utilises bolt on mounting plates to fit up to stock axle locations?

[modman]

Do you do this kit........

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/849.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/850.jpg
The first set of arms are patrol, second set rover diff??
Dc

Edit : second pic off google image ( original from John/aulro )
Thanks John

[Bush65]

Do you do this kit........

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/849.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/850.jpg
The first set of arms are patrol, second set rover diff??
Dc
The second pic shows a superflex radius arm for a patrol on the LH side and a standard rover radius arm on the RH side, with a rover front diff.

That stuff (2nd pic) belongs to me and I also took the pic.

[LowRanger]

Do you do this kit........

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/849.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/850.jpg
The first set of arms are patrol, second set rover diff??
Dc

Edit : second pic off google image ( original from John/aulro )
Thanks John

That will be similar to what Greg is going to be releasing for Land Rovers;)
As well as normal arms with different bushes fitted for those that don't want to go the whole Supaflex route,but want more flex than you get with Land Rover arms

[micksta1973]

Has any one seen these guys based out of the US? the mods they do to radius arms look rather impressive. The pic is down near the bottom of the page just after the pic of the rims on the bench. If I win lotto, this is where my Defender will be going for a rebuild. Defender 110 accident repair (http://www.eastcoastrover.com/161.html)

[uninformed]

save yourself the $$$$$......

Looks like ECR's work. ALL they have done is a castor correction at the RA. This will IMO, now make the angles for a stock driveshaft not so great. With a decent press you could do this yourself, or simply buy the new Superior Engineering arms to suit your lift, with the added bonus of more flex. Id bet $$$ would be saved as shipping wouldnt be cheap on a set of RA from the USA.

[GoldCloverLeaf]

I might be missing something in that link but they are just standard 'cranked' arms to rectify the castor angle... won't improve articulation... just the steering/tracking.

Hopefully Superior will do 3 degree and 6 degree versions of the superflex arms, which should kill two birds with one stone... much improved atriculation and castor correction in the same product, no more need for slotted swivels, special bushes or cranked arms etc... win win :D

*edit... uninformed beat me to it!*

[Vern]

But what if you already have slotted swivels?:(, think I may get some of the normal superflex arms anyway:)

[uninformed]

From what I can gather all the different SE arms will be available in std height, ie no lift/ castor correction.

[Bush65]

IMHO, correcting castor by rotating the diff, via RA or bushes, is the wrong approach. It increase the drive shaft angle, from bad (stock) to even worse.

There is benefit in cranking the RA for raised suspension, but it should be done to correct the angle at the chassis bush, and to correct the pinion angle, ideally for a double cardan drive shaft.

Castor is best corrected with the swivels.

[modman]

For the suspension experts out there I have a question ( probably of little relevance)
When looking at the standard height rover RA front end side on draw a line through the middle of the axle end RA bushes (middle of bolt holes or heads on one side)
When you lift this front end using springs only, that angle the bushes are on would change
The change would be the same degree as caster change
I know the different feel 3 degree (out) caster has[bighmmm]

What handling characteristics are changed with this differing bush angle??
(Other than caster which could be isolated and changed by rotating swivels)

Dc

[uninformed]

Im no expert. Those bushes are still going to be in the same relation to the housing as stock, as the whole lot has rotated. The panhard at axle end will have a little more bind in it over stock, due to the housing rotating. One thing that does get worse is how the front handles bumps at any speed other than sub 2km/h. As the arms are now not level(ish) when they travel up (compression) they also are traveling forward due to the arc scribed by the arms. But when you are moving forward the axle wants to move upward and rearward due to forces.....this is where things get harsh, they are fighting each other. This is not due to the bush angle though. Of coarse you also have more bump steer and roll steer with lift, but again not due to bush angle but link geometry.

[Bush65]

Uninformed has said it, I just want to reinforce it.

Unrelated to the question Uninformed answered, raising suspension has upsides and downsides. The upsides are all found off road, but not in all situations.

This is why I am a convert to air springs for what I require now, to enjoy variable ride height. Stock or even a little less on road. Low, even to the bump stops in bad off-camber off road, a comfortable height that can soak up bumps off road or on badly rutted roads, or temporary changes to increase approach, departure or break-over angles on particular obstacles. There are other reasons, such as retaining the ride height when the payload is changed, and active height control during cornering, or braking.

I hope these arms will improve how the front suspension works off road, and improve the balance between front and rear articulation.

[uninformed]

Dave, If you asking if changing the bush relation to the housing, ie not the seperation, but their placement, say from stock to say more vertical placement, then I can not answer if that will change how they deal with the forces seen during accleration/brakeing etc. I would say your antidive would be the same for a set height, given the convergence point of the RA is still the same. I think the axle roll axis angle would remain the same as the 2 bushes seem to disect the centre line of the axle housing, and if you rotated the bushes aroung this wouldnt change.

not 100% sure :confused:

[clubagreenie]

IMHO, correcting castor by rotating the diff, via RA or bushes, is the wrong approach. It increase the drive shaft angle, from bad (stock) to even worse.

There is benefit in cranking the RA for raised suspension, but it should be done to correct the angle at the chassis bush, and to correct the pinion angle, ideally for a double cardan drive shaft.

Castor is best corrected with the swivels.

I really don not understand this statement.

When you add lift, the diff rotates in a downwards arc, yes the panhard gets induced bind and the pinion angle rotates. And I realise we're mostly talking about pin end arms like RRC/D1 (I'm a D2 so don't have chassis end bush issues). If the RA's are corrected correctly then the diff is relocated back into it's original location. Panhard and pinion positions are stock, castor angles are returned.

Yes In a D1/RRC the lift induces chassis end bush issues but these are corrected as said with cranked arms that also need castor correction at the diff end. I only know of one mob that did bent arms for castor correction and it's no longer available. Rotating the swivels does not return the housing to it's original position, does not alleviate panhard binding and does not reduce the chassis bush issues.

[rick130]

I really don not understand this statement.

When you add lift, the diff rotates in a downwards arc, yes the panhard gets induced bind and the pinion angle rotates. And I realise we're mostly talking about pin end arms like RRC/D1 (I'm a D2 so don't have chassis end bush issues). If the RA's are corrected correctly then the diff is relocated back into it's original location. Panhard and pinion positions are stock, castor angles are returned.

Yes In a D1/RRC the lift induces chassis end bush issues but these are corrected as said with cranked arms that also need castor correction at the diff end. I only know of one mob that did bent arms for castor correction and it's no longer available. Rotating the swivels does not return the housing to it's original position, does not alleviate panhard binding and does not reduce the chassis bush issues.


Rotating the swivels maintains the correct geometry of the pinion to the t/case output flange, bending arms doesn't.

If you bend the radius arm to correct for castor you start to point the pinion flange down, and for correct alignment a DC shaft needs the pinion to point directly at the t/case flange.

To correct the pin angle (depending on lift) you'll need a bend in the opposite direction, a big S.

[uninformed]

I really don not understand this statement.

When you add lift, the diff rotates in a downwards arc, yes the panhard gets induced bind and the pinion angle rotates. And I realise we're mostly talking about pin end arms like RRC/D1 (I'm a D2 so don't have chassis end bush issues). If the RA's are corrected correctly then the diff is relocated back into it's original location. Panhard and pinion positions are stock, castor angles are returned.

Yes In a D1/RRC the lift induces chassis end bush issues but these are corrected as said with cranked arms that also need castor correction at the diff end. I only know of one mob that did bent arms for castor correction and it's no longer available. Rotating the swivels does not return the housing to it's original position, does not alleviate panhard binding and does not reduce the chassis bush issues.

Lets call the pinion angle at stock ride height "correct" for this example. Lets call castor at the swivel 3 degrees. The "correct" pinion angle at stock ride height, is in relation to the transfer case output flange. Note that as soon as you change the vertical difference between the diff pinion and the t/case output flange, for the same give horizontal length (lets ignore the small amount the diff swings front to back in its arc) ,i.e. lift, then the given pinion angle must change to be correct at the new ride height. So setting the castor corrected arms up so that at 3 inch lift you have 3 degrees castor at the swivel is probably not going to give you the correct pinion angle for that lift, but rather the "correct" pinion angle for stock height/no lift as the pinion and castor are in relation to each other set at factory.

If as the RA arc down from stock the pinion angle remains within a fair working range, then leaving it as is and rotating the swivles is better.

John's solution of cranking the arms is to set the ideal pinion angle for a given ride height and then rotating the swivel to set castor. A person may even want more than +3 degrees depending on lift and tyre size.....

The other thing to remember is that the stock front propshaft on older coil sprung LR, RRC and Disco 1 is out of phase due to the angles that the t/case out put flange and pinion are at stock... so there are other options with conventional propshafts and DC propshafts

[Grimace]

Just for all whom may be interested, I have found that cranked arms seem to line up pretty darn good for a DC to be used in the front drive shaft.

As someone who has been using cranked arms for a long time, all I can say is I am very happy with them.

I have also found the pinion angle change makes little difference to real world results for my given application.

Also I replaced my holey bushes on Friday as they were extremely worn out.
As I was heading to The Springs 4x4 park over the weekend I chucked in some standard (none genuine) radius arm bushes just for this trip.
All I can say is the amount (or lack) of front flex was amazing. The front flexed about 4" all up, as opposed to what I would guesstimate to be 9" with the worn holey bushes.
This caused my rear end to work a lot harder. I would say that for the first time since driving my RRC that I may have finally used up all the travel from the rear shocks (13").

As my rear end is fairly loose (designed to work with the loose front end provided by the holey bushes) the results of a stiff front end were shocking.
My opnion is that if you have even just put longer shocks in the rear of your rover, then the front needs the holey bushes or the super flex arms for the vehicles to perform satisfactory.

I am certainly looking forward to reviewing the super flex arms, and getting rid of these standard bushes.

Cheers
Grimace

[Bush65]

I really don not understand this statement.

When you add lift, the diff rotates in a downwards arc, yes the panhard gets induced bind and the pinion angle rotates. And I realise we're mostly talking about pin end arms like RRC/D1 (I'm a D2 so don't have chassis end bush issues). If the RA's are corrected correctly then the diff is relocated back into it's original location. Panhard and pinion positions are stock, castor angles are returned.

Yes In a D1/RRC the lift induces chassis end bush issues but these are corrected as said with cranked arms that also need castor correction at the diff end. I only know of one mob that did bent arms for castor correction and it's no longer available. Rotating the swivels does not return the housing to it's original position, does not alleviate panhard binding and does not reduce the chassis bush issues.
You would be correct if at standard height the front output shaft of the transfer case, and the front diff pinion were parallel. Then for a suspension lift, correcting castor would also correct the pinion angle. Parallel is the convention way that universal joints are aligned for drive shafts.

However since Land Rover changed to coils, the front TC shaft and pinion are not parallel, and the universals are out of phase to reduce vibration. It stays reasonably correct when the suspension is lifted, but can never be perfect. When castor correction arms/bushes are fitted, the diff pinion is rotated down, the already too great operating angle of the universal at the TC end is made worse. The pitiful maximum operating angle of the ISO universals that Land Rover use can not accommodate much droop from the raised height, and even less droop is castor correction arms are used.

The best solution if you want to do longish trips with raised suspension is to use a double cardan front drive shaft. This changes the correct pinion angle again. I note grimace stated it is not too far off for a double cardan drive shaft, but again I suggest not the ideal pinion angle.

With a double cardan drive shaft, the diff pinion should be 0.5 to 1 degree off parallel with the drive shaft. Because of the poor maximum operating angle of the double cardan joints for Land Rover use, and the affect on droop that I mentioned above, it is better if the pinion is pointing 0.5 to 1 degree above parallel, rather than 0.5 to 1 degree below parallel.

The pic below shows the comparison of operating at universal bind condition of 3 drive shafts. The top is the standard wide angle universal used by Land Rover. The middle one is a disco II double cardan drive shaft. The lower is a stock Nissan single universal drive shaft.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1584.jpg

With Land Rovers, you can do a modest lift reasonably cheaply, but over that it becomes expensive to do properly.

It makes little sense to me to spend the $$$ required for springs, shocks and superflex RA's to not do the job properly and add a double cardan drive shaft. And to do this properly the diff pinion angle needs to be corrected for the double cardan drive shaft, and the only way to do this is with the radius arms. Then the castor needs to be corrected with the swivels. Do the job properly, and don't stuff it up with radius arms designed to correct castor.

A Land Rover is not the same as a Patrol or Landcruiser, and different rules apply for obtaining good results when the suspension lift is around three inches.

[Grimace]

I have a custom DC drive shaft.

I drive my vehicle long distances.

At the moment my front cranked arms are slightly over corrected as the lift is not as much as the arms are designed for. Arms are for 4" lift and my front is about 2.5" assuming I am not a complete muppet and calculated approx.

So given the above, my pinion is actually below the optimal range of the DC shaft, by the exact amount of degrees I am not sure.

There is no vibration, no issue at all. Car actually drives very good with the new standard front bushes.
Longer trailing arms in the rear would be my next upgrade for on road drive-ability and to reduce some of the rear steer under articulation. I wouldn't be doing it in an effort to increase the travel from the rear it's more then enough (too much actually).

It works for me. Has for years.

As with the super flex arms, I will work out what suits my vehicle best. Trial it. If it works it will stay, if it doesn't it will change.

edit: Sorry this is just me adding more facts for people. This is not to be mis interpreted as a dig at bush65 or uninformed. Just read back over the last couple of post and thought it may look that way so just wanted to clarify that before someone takes it the wrong way.

[uninformed]

No worries Grimace, I certainly didnt take it that way. Its good to have your imput here, you do more offroad KM than me.

I also have a DC front shaft in a 2.5 inch lift. Mine is a stock Disco shaft and I have stock arms. It was put in because my original non DC shaft produced a vibration once the lift was put in. It works ok for me, but in saying that its also probably not the best practice or set up.

Longer trailing arms, and in fact longer RA's have been something I have wanted to do for years, but engineering has always been a hurdle. These were never about flex but about drivability so to speak. This may be something I can now get sorted.......but of coarse only having one vehicle and no $$$ makes it tough.

Grimace, are your RA the older narrow type or the later wider type?

Greg, make with the updates :p

[Grimace]

Grimace, are your RA the older narrow type or the later wider type?

Greg, make with the updates :p

I have the wider type in my vehicle.

Just for reference I have attached some photos showing the difference in flex ratio front to rear with the holey bushes and the standard bushes.

Front holey bushes and cranked arms, cranked rear trailing arms, standard link geometry. Standard bushes at chassis end.
EDIT: More info, spring ratios are 220lb front, 186lb rear and retained top and bottom all round.
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/5199/67055101512730138245091.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1362/2012coffsharbor16037.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/601.jpg

In all three of these images I was not at full flex and the vehicle drove all without the locker engaged so there is a bit more to be had but the main point is to show just how much difference the radius arm bushes effect the suspension characteristics.

In the next two photos, one is unlocked climbing and still driving, the second is in a wombat hole where I was at full flex in the rear, tyres still on ground but no forward traction without the locker engaged.
These two images alone shows the rear end working a lot harder then the previous images above (meanwhile the front is doing bugger all);
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/602.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img832/7196/fft6.jpg

While the car still worked fairly well offroad, it was no where near as compliant with the terrain as it was with the holey bushes installed.

I will be reporting back to this thread with some comparisons once the SF arms have been tested (if given the chance)

Also hope Greg doesn't mind me mentioning this, in regards to any updates. I spoke with him late last week and he is currently doing further testing on all the combinations of bushes and should have some more details once he has completed & compiled all the details for direct comparison.

Cheers
Grimace

[1MadEngineer]

OK guys sorry for the slow replies, I have had an ultra4 stuck on the hoist for a week trying to sort it out :mad:

I have 1 set of measurements to do in the morning to finish my assessment of the arms and then I can finalize my report and start full production. Its been a mission! but i have some great results and hopefully everyone likes the final products. I will post up the full report by the end of the week and hopefully the first lot of steel hits the CNC mid next week :)

The products ready for official release as of next monday will be: (suit RRC,disco1,def)
0", 2" radius arms and superflex arms
4140 Tie rods and draglinks
Bolt on adjustable steering damper brackets (suit patrol/cruiser style pin-pin)
Eye-Eye rear Trailing arms w/ adapter

coming soon (release in 3-4wks)
Long Arm rear Trailing arms w/ weld on mounts + engineering paperwork
Raised front shock towers
Pin-Pin rear Upper shock mounts.

cheers
Greg

[isuzutoo-eh]

Are the RRC radius arms narrow or wide?

[uninformed]

Are the RRC radius arms narrow or wide?

Looks like the arm material is 32mm. The bush ring is wider, its width im not sure. Would the Disco 1 that is Greg's donor vehicle have the early or late arms???

Pin ends change also on the stock arms dont they???

[isuzutoo-eh]

D1 I think have wide arms, AFAIK the pin end does change but don't know how significantly.

[Grimace]

D1 and later (post 1986) RRC have the wide RA bushes (50mm)
the early (pre 86) RRC were equiped witht he narrow RA & bushes (45mm) if my memory serve me correctly.

As for the pin ends at the chassis I can't recall exactly but I believe all narrow RAs from RRC have the smaller pin diameter?

There may have been a county variant that was also different again, but having no experience with county RAs, I would be guessing the configuration.


edit: Where is Trav (aquarangie) when you need him!!!?? He probably knows the month, let alone the year, the changes were made :D

[uninformed]

I thought it was 45mm for the wide and 40mm for the narrow???

[Slunnie]

I didn't think the Superior radius arms retained the pins. Are they not eye ends?

[uninformed]

Slunnie, post #44. The talk about going to a Toyota style bush at chassis end was in reference to the Nissan arms. Greg also mentioned somewhere here the SE pin end isn't exactly rover but they have a bush that will allow it to bolt in.

The question is will it suit the early style arm mounts?

[rick130]

Just a quick observation re pinion angles after climbing under for a while yesterday changing the front prop, the pinion currently doesn't point directly at the t/case but somewhere above it, so rotating the entire diff housing to correct castor as you do with castor corrected arms will actually help correct the pinion too.

I didn't get any angles, my digi gauge needs a battery :angel:

[uninformed]

The problem is, when taking in to consideration the original propshaft, its out of phase-ness and angles of T/case and diff, what are they??? So in best practice, a custom drive shaft would be used and the pinion set to the angles for its type, i.e. conventional or DC.

This would be, AFAIK, for:

DC type shaft: pinion pointing at just above the centre line of the t/case flange centre. This is only just above as the centre line is to meet the centre line of first uni coming from the t/case. The DC being at the t/case end

Conventional: Pinion angle parrallel with the t/case flange.

Note, that does not allow for the original out of phase propshaft.

[Bush65]

The problem is, when taking in to consideration the original propshaft, its out of phase-ness and angles of T/case and diff, what are they??? So in best practice, a custom drive shaft would be used and the pinion set to the angles for its type, i.e. conventional or DC.

This would be, AFAIK, for:

DC type shaft: pinion pointing at just above the centre line of the t/case flange centre. This is only just above as the centre line is to meet the centre line of first uni coming from the t/case. The DC being at the t/case end

Conventional: Pinion angle parrallel with the t/case flange.

Note, that does not allow for the original out of phase propshaft.
I've never measured the stock angles, they are worse for the puma and later engined Land Rovers as seen in the many problems with front drive shafts and transfer cases.

Leaving aside the puma and later engined LR, with the front drive shaft the operating angle at standard height is large, and gets worse with any suspension lift.

Also if front suspension travel is increased (here we are talking of supeflex arms to free up the front for better balanced and increased articulation), then we run into the problem of the universal at the TC binding.

With a double cardan drive shaft, the alignment criteria is not so much pointing at the TC, or the first uni, but the operating angle of the uni at the opposite end to the double cardan joint. This angle should be 1 degree (note I was incorrect before when I said 0.5 to 1 deg), and if it is achieved by pointing the pinion above the drive shaft, it reduces the working angles of the double cardan joint.

With a conventional drive shaft, the criteria is for the working angles of the uni joints at both ends to be equal within 1 degree, and the working angle to be 1 degree minimum to 3 degree maximum (see table below for larger angles). The common way to achieve this is with parallel pinion and TC shaft, but it is not the only way. It is perfectly acceptable to use what is sometimes referred to as a 'broken-back', where the shafts are not parallel but the working angles are equal (within 1 deg).

The following from Spicer:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/535.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/536.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/537.jpg

[Grimace]

Few more details for all to ponder.

First of all I think you will noticed more vibration from a set of mud tyres then you would a slightly out of alignment drive shaft.

He are my angles of operation from my front tcase output down to the diff.

Tcase output at 0°
Driveshaft operating angle (in relation to tcase output) 20°
Differential flange 14°

This is well out of recommended specs. To my surprise the angle of operation at the differential universal is much more then I was expecting (twice as much).

So I have 20° shared between the two universal joints in the custom CV driveshaft.
With 6° of operating angle at the differential uni.
http://imageshack.us/a/img94/5723/zxsd.jpg

This could well be due to having too much castor correction.

I am interested in comparing the castor correction applied to my current cranked arms, against the castor correction of each SF arm.

[uninformed]

when I put my first spring lift in, which was pretty much 3 inch, I had pretty new MTRs. Front prop vibed at approx 85km/h. Disco 2 DC shaft went in and vibe was gone.

[uninformed]

I just checked mine, and with approx. 1 1/2-2 inch lift (115mm between BS) I have:

Propshaft 12.5*
Diff pinion 73*
T/case 91.5*

Even though the ground was not perfectly level, it was flat in both directions, and its the relation of those 3 items to each other that count.

So, by my calcs I have 13.5* shared at the DC and 4.5* at the diff pinion uni. How ever, as I have stock RA, my pinion is pointing higher then the shaft (opposite to Grimace's)

[rick130]

And a further FWIW, you don't need the Super Flex arms to get uni bind.

My old shaft did it just with TLC Koni's in the front.

[1MadEngineer]

Just a quick bit of info for the guys that asked, 2" arms give ~3.38deg and 3" arms will give ~5.1deg of castor correction over a standard arm.
BTW I should have about 20 sets of arms ready to go in 2-3wks max.
I will also do a few sets of 3" arms in the next lot which will be about 2 weeks after the first batch. :D


cheers
Greg

[Skiboy]

Grimace

Who made your DC shaft? - should have had a good look at it last weekend.

Got some vibration in Bumblebee - not sure if front or rear or both. So interested in this discussion to learn basics prior to trying to solve vibration for on road use.

Skiboy

[Grimace]

Just a quick bit of info for the guys that asked, 2" arms give ~3.38deg and 3" arms will give ~5.1deg of castor correction over a standard arm.
BTW I should have about 20 sets of arms ready to go in 2-3wks max.
I will also do a few sets of 3" arms in the next lot which will be about 2 weeks after the first batch. :D


cheers
Greg

Cheers Greg, will see if I can work out my current castor and then put my order in :cool:


Grimace

Who made your DC shaft? - should have had a good look at it last weekend.

Got some vibration in Bumblebee - not sure if front or rear or both. So interested in this discussion to learn basics prior to trying to solve vibration for on road use.

Skiboy

Both front and rear shafts are double cardan at the transfer case and are supplied by Tom Woods.
Tom Wood's Custom Drive Shafts (http://4xshaft.com/)

[rick130]

Cheers Greg, will see if I can work out my current castor and then put my order in :cool:



Both front and rear shafts are double cardan at the transfer case and are supplied by Tom Woods.
Tom Wood's Custom Drive Shafts (http://4xshaft.com/)

TW's service is excellent and his product is better.

[Skiboy]

Both front and rear shafts are double cardan at the transfer case and are supplied by Tom Woods.
Tom Wood's Custom Drive Shafts (http://4xshaft.com/)

OK I was looking at Tom Shafts right from start of this project (had some very helpful emails with Tom). I guess I have to get the angle measure thing out and send him the specs and see what he recommends. I liked that his DC's do not need a new flange thus in emergency a normal shaft will get you out of trouble.

I will also be saving for Superflex Arms from Mike - but Bumblebee is Nissan RA so that is easy off the shelf stuff for superior. Have to get the front locker sorted first I think.

But depending on how the rover ones go might get a set for the Rangie Ute. Both truck need to free up at the front a little.

Anyone in need or long travel shocks should look at the Superior Engineering AmadaXtremes (http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/index.php?pag_id=5681) . We are running these on Bumblebee and they grab nicely but were also very impressive in the speed runs in the weekend. Very stable and responsive.

Skiboy

[GoldCloverLeaf]

+1 on the Amadas... i was also surprised how ridiculously good they are on higher speed stuff so should also make a great touring shock.

Took these pics the other weekend, just need that little bit more in the front...

Plenty in the rear... will also be interesting to see these extended rear arms, should alleviate some of the rear-steer affect.

http://imageshack.us/a/img541/5415/do93.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img9/9891/nrk9.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img11/8066/vk8m.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img21/9546/0kso.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img197/4818/pnlf.jpghttp://

[manchild21000]

Just a quick bit of info for the guys that asked, 2" arms give ~3.38deg and 3" arms will give ~5.1deg of castor correction over a standard arm.
BTW I should have about 20 sets of arms ready to go in 2-3wks max.
I will also do a few sets of 3" arms in the next lot which will be about 2 weeks after the first batch. :D


cheers
Greg
Put me down for one please . I need a single arm , stock .
cheers
George

[kreecha]

Just a quick bit of info for the guys that asked, 2" arms give ~3.38deg and 3" arms will give ~5.1deg of castor correction over a standard arm.
BTW I should have about 20 sets of arms ready to go in 2-3wks max.
I will also do a few sets of 3" arms in the next lot which will be about 2 weeks after the first batch. :D


cheers
Greg

Greg,
Can you please provide a few details also of the raised shock towers, I just need to get this to my local road authority for engineering approval in principle.

Cheers, Adam

[rick130]

I liked that his DC's do not need a new flange thus in emergency a normal shaft will get you out of trouble.



That's what I have, Low Ranger/Wayne tipped me off that TW could supply a (DC) shaft this way now so it's a straight plug and play setup, no DII output flange needed these days

[LowRanger]

That's what I have, Low Ranger/Wayne tipped me off that TW could supply a (DC) shaft this way now so it's a straight plug and play setup, no DII output flange needed these days

Yep...plug and play and a far superior product to boot:D

[uninformed]

Umm, in an emergency, a d2 shaft is still off the shelf.....

[LowRanger]

Umm, in an emergency, a d2 shaft is still off the shelf.....

Not unless you also have the flange to fit or already fitted;)

[Grimace]

Lol in am emergency I have my center diff lock :)

[Skiboy]

In an emergency I have two standard shafts in the trailer - free and ready to drive in half an hour

[kreecha]

So I won't be putting my hand up for some of the first arms because I got in on lucky8's locker sale, and I'm awaiting delivery of a BAS VGT for my 300tdi.

I am driving to Brissy for Christmas though. Maybe when I come down I could meet up with someone who had the arms fitted for a rundown and comparo :-)

[Grimace]

I will be updating this very thread once I get a chance to test out the 3" sf arms.
Getting closer!

[quaddrive]

Do we know when these exactly are available and the cost?

Cheers
G

[LowRanger]

And so the story drags on,still not available until the end of the month at least................And the people you need to speak to about them are unable to be contacted:mad:

[GoldCloverLeaf]

Yeah I was hoping to have these stocking stuffers ready for order soon as well! But oh well I’m just happy an Aussie mob is putting in the effort to cater for us local landy owners because let’s face it, for every Defender/Discovery on the tracks there are 20 Cruisers / Patrols, although it seems more and more people are buying Landy’s these days.

There would be a huge market for these in the UK/ Europe… where there would easily be 20 Defenders for every Cruiser / Patrol over there ;)

[Grimace]

Good things come to those who wait.... and wait.... and wait :D

Time for an update Greg, give the boys in production a kick in the bum!!

[Bush65]

Good things come to those who wait.... and wait.... and wait :D

Time for an update Greg, give the boys in production a kick in the bum!!
IIRC you also had to wait a bit for your RTE arms.

Watching with much interest regarding the radius and trailing arms.

[LowRanger]

Good things come to those who wait.... and wait.... and wait :D

Time for an update Greg, give the boys in production a kick in the bum!!

Have been trying to get hold of Greg for the last month,and if you ring the business,you cant get past the person that answers the phone:mad:

[Grimace]

IIRC you also had to wait a bit for your RTE arms.

Watching with much interest regarding the radius and trailing arms.

So very true. I am always waiting for things it seems.
Under drive has been a 6 month wait. These arms a couple of months... the new suspension a month going on two now :D

Hell my high mount is still in the shed... its been waiting on me to fit it for the last..... 7 years :blush:

[kreecha]

It does make sense that the arms are not yet ready, as quoted by, and identified by several of you on this forum there appears to be 20 solid axle cruitrols to every Rover.
Of that 20 half must be under 25.
Of that 10 half are stupid enough to fit the arms with no regard to insurance liabilities, on road handling (sway bar fitment, big tyres etc), or ADR legalities. 1 trip to Tuff Truck proves this.

Therefore we are our own worst enemy. Too mature. Too sensible. Too many civic (family & future planning) financial RESPONSIBILITIES to drop $1600 on a set of radius arms for a 15-20 year old car. Oh and we are too few among the many.

So on Superiors behalf a SUPERIOR business decision to cater for the majority. I am sure blind Freddy could see the outcome of a cost benefit analysis in this scenario.

Why is it Superior don't hear us but the government hears Vegan Hippie Hairy Arm Pit No-good law breaking immigrant social misfits!?!

Oh that's right, Australia the lucky country.

Rant over.

PS; what do I care I spent my radius arm money on front and rear lockers, new ring and pinion and a Tvan. And I did the frenchmans, and tele track towing said camper trailer 2 months ago without the radius arms.

[brettphillips43]

Hi guys,
I am the guy who design and developed the superflex arms, I have been working on the designs for rovers as well during the last 6 months. Guys that know me, know how fussy I am about getting it spot on before releasing them for sale. I bought a disco a few months back purely for testing and development work for all the possible upgrades. If you guys have a wish list of stuff please let me know and I can get to work designing it!

cheers
Greg

Cheers for the heads up intro "1MadEngineer"

[GoldCloverLeaf]

I don't think many people in this thread would consider frenchmans or the tele track even remotely challenging... most stock vehicles will drive those tracks no worries (with a raised air intake), sure you really needed those lockers!? :P

Still...i'd rather throw a few bills here and there at on older truck that takes a few bumps and bruises, i'd much rather that then take on the massive depreciation on something new.

There's a suprising amount of Suzuki Sierra stuff available locally and there aren't that many around, i suppose there is much less of a 'fuddy-duddy' factor with them than you get with some landy owners :wasntme:

[460cixy]

I don't think many people in this thread would consider frenchmans or the tele track even remotely challenging... most stock vehicles will drive those tracks no worries (with a raised air intake), sure you really needed those lockers!? :P

Still...i'd rather throw a few bills here and there at on older truck that takes a few bumps and bruises, i'd much rather that then take on the massive depreciation on something new.

There's a suprising amount of Suzuki Sierra stuff available locally and there aren't that many around, i suppose there is much less of a 'fuddy-duddy' factor with them than you get with some landy owners :wasntme:



Spot on about the fuddy-duddy lots of landy owners seem to really look down there noses at landys with any sort of lift or decent sized rubber

[uninformed]

Maybe Greg is on holidays? Maybe he is only a consultant for Superior and has a full time gig else where? Maybe they don't see LR products as a priority?

hell I don't know, but I do hope he answers my pm :)

[GoldCloverLeaf]

Well i think being a business owner or partner you have a lot on your plate, you really just don't have the time to answer everyone's phone calls and emails, and if you did, product development would be even more glacial :p

[Psimpson7]

The lack of updates is pretty frustrating. I have nearly lost all interest

[LowRanger]

The lack of updates is pretty frustrating. I have nearly lost all interest

LOl
The bushes in the front of my truck are totally flogged out,and I was waiting on these arms,rather than spending money on bushes and then purchasing new arms and double spending.Something is going on,I have tried mobile numbers and left messages,and still get no reply..........I don't think frustrating is the word I would use Pete:D

[uninformed]

seems SE were busy over the weekend at the Glasshouse Mts doing a photo/vid thing, some of it for 4WD TV..... Maybe we should be driving Nissans :angel:

[LowRanger]

seems SE were busy over the weekend at the Glasshouse Mts doing a photo/vid thing, some of it for 4WD TV..... Maybe we should be driving Nissans :angel:

Yeah saw that on their fartbook page the other day,I have left messages on that page as well,and get told to call and talk to different people,and when you ring,they don't want to put you through,just get held at the counter and told stories I have been hearing for months..
It is a pity really,as these looked like they could have really helped a few people out here:mad:

[clubagreenie]

And when they do reappear, it'll be to complain that they put in the "effort" to develop a product and everyone has in the meantime spent their dollars overseas.

That's where mine went.

[uninformed]

Yeah saw that on their fartbook page the other day,I have left messages on that page as well,and get told to call and talk to different people,and when you ring,they don't want to put you through,just get held at the counter and told stories I have been hearing for months..
It is a pity really,as these looked like they could have really helped a few people out here:mad:

at lesat they replied to your facebook message... :(

[uninformed]

And when they do reappear, it'll be to complain that they put in the "effort" to develop a product and everyone has in the meantime spent their dollars overseas.

That's where mine went.

or made their own :wasntme:

[LowRanger]

at lesat they replied to your facebook message... :(

hahahaha somebody did,with useless information :D

[uninformed]

bump.

Greg hope all is well and that you will have some good news for the LR community soon.

cheers
Serg

[nick b]

Any news Peeps??

[manchild21000]

They have been for sale on their website for weeks now .

[Grimace]

The website has the cranked arms listed. But does not yet have the superflex arm listed. I can't wait any longer!!!!

[manchild21000]

My mistake honey , it is the radius arms

[1MadEngineer]

The website has the cranked arms listed. But does not yet have the superflex arm listed. I can't wait any longer!!!!

they will definately beat santa!! ;)

[uninformed]

they will definately beat santa!! ;)

I doubt anyone could bet santa off road, he has vertical take-off.

[bushrover]

they will definately beat santa!! ;)

You beauty.....................there will be a set in my stocking.

[Psimpson7]

they will definately beat santa!! ;)

This year? :D

[Grimace]

Smidge over an hour for Santa to swing by Superior and collect my SF arms!!!

:tease:

[LowRanger]

Smidge over an hour for Santa to swing by Superior and collect my SF arms!!!

:tease:

I think you must have been a tad naughty this year Grimace,if there are nothing like this under your Xmas tree
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/545.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1460.jpg ;):p:twisted:

[LowRanger]

This year? :D


Yep;):D

[LowRanger]

Ok,I managed to get out and test the suspension today:D

Have reported to the boss and here are a couple of pics of the suspension working;)
Just a teaser first:p

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/84.jpg

Just a little bit of down travel;)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/85.jpg

And a bit of up travel.....yes that is a 35" tyre stuffed up in there:cool:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/86.jpg

If anyone is interested I have a few more pics I can post ;)

[isuzutoo-eh]

That's some pretty serious axle twisting ;)

[Slunnie]

I'm impressed! Should the axle bushes be rotated 90 degrees like how the Haultech holey bushes are installed or is that correct?

[LowRanger]

I'm impressed! Should the axle bushes be rotated 90 degrees like how the Haultech holey bushes are installed or is that correct?

I have spoken to Greg about this and this allows the bushes to have maximum deflection,which is what I want,as the vehicle is only a weekend truck.Rotating the bushes will stiffen things a little and will be better for a daily driver.People will be able to confer with Greg and work out what they require.The bushes are genuine Nissan and hence much larger and beefier than the Landie ones,that I was going through like hot cakes:eek:

[LowRanger]

That's some pretty serious axle twisting ;)

Thanks for taking the photos;)
I cant get over how level the body is compared to the suspension.It really shows how balanced the front and rear is now:twisted:

[uninformed]

Wayne, I take it the pin end is also a Nissan bush? I think Greg said that it is a touch smaller pin but the bush size fits the LR chassis mount spot on, so more rubber = more deflection. (I could well be wrong on ALL of that)

I asked at Super Pro, and they do not do an improved bush for that end of the Nissan like the LR with the groove around the dia.

So it begs the question, do you think the Nissan bush better than the LR Super Pro improved bush?

Greg, any chance you could Answer my PM?

[LowRanger]

Wayne, I take it the pin end is also a Nissan bush? I think Greg said that it is a touch smaller pin but the bush size fits the LR chassis mount spot on, so more rubber = more deflection. (I could well be wrong on ALL of that)

I asked at Super Pro, and they do not do an improved bush for that end of the Nissan like the LR with the groove around the dia.

So it begs the question, do you think the Nissan bush better than the LR Super Pro improved bush?

Greg, any chance you could Answer my PM?

Serg

The chassis end bush allows a heap of travel,so I see no need to even think of a Super Pro bush,I have a few more photos that show how well it works and how balanced my suspension seems to be now;)
The genuine bush that is supplied,fits perfectly into the mount in the chassis.

[LowRanger]

One thing I will say to any one that is considering these arms.Be prepared to be surprised how solid and heavy they are.I weighed the standard arm and it weighed approx 5.8KG.I then weighed the R//H superflex arm and it weighed approx 15KG.Everything is super solid:cool:

[uninformed]

One thing I will say to any one that is considering these arms.Be prepared to be surprised how solid and heavy they are.I weighed the standard arm and it weighed approx 5.8KG.I then weighed the R//H superflex arm and it weighed approx 15KG.Everything is super solid:cool:

thats a bugger about the weight, But doesnt suprise me. The stock arms are made from suprising good material. Ductile and strong.

[LowRanger]

thats a bugger about the weight, But doesnt suprise me. The stock arms are made from suprising good material. Ductile and strong.

Serg
I don't think it is a bad thing,apart from a little more unsprung weight,but there is more than a little overkill in the design of these arms,which I will gladly sacrifice some weight for,rather than having it fail,like some other designs that have been around in the past;)

[uninformed]

Serg
I don't think it is a bad thing,apart from a little more unsprung weight,but there is more than a little overkill in the design of these arms,which I will gladly sacrifice some weight for,rather than having it fail,like some other designs that have been around in the past;)

yes, some of the arms I have seen from the Uk look like they are welded from 6mm Flat bar.

Unsprung weight is a killer over bumps at speed (touring outback etc), but I guess your COG just got a little lower :D

[LowRanger]

yes, some of the arms I have seen from the Uk look like they are welded from 6mm Flat bar.

Unsprung weight is a killer over bumps at speed (touring outback etc), but I guess your COG just got a little lower :D

Hahahahaha if I was worried about unsprung weight over bumps,I wouldn't be running the wheels and tyres I do either,as they weigh in at approx 56Kg each;)

This truck is built for a purpose,I have my 130 as mmy multi purpose vehicle:D

[1MadEngineer]

Hi, sorry for the quick reply but i am supposed to be enjoyng a family holiday and am sneaking a quick peek. ;)

Thanks wayne for all your feedback and testing, I am now happy to finally relaese all the kits i have been holding back ( yes grimace you are the first! ) . Waynes defender looks mad! and i am sure there are going to be some insanely jealous nissan's out there. The shock tune seems to be pretty spot on , so i can now start to organise some for late feb/ early march with the rover specific valving. In the mean time i can do special tunes in low volume if required, but i need to get feedback on what sizes are going to be best suited.

As for the weight of the arms, anyone who knows my work knows i don't do things by halves. My theory is, everything my stuff is attached to should fail first! I am all about strength and quality - no compromise. I let evryone else sell cheap $hit that doesn't last. I designed the superflex arms to be a one off purchase and wether they are for a comp car or a weekend warrior they should last forever. There is a specific design criteria that i use for all the arms, and the added mass is mostly in the center and rear of the arm which is added to the percentage of sprung mass - a necessary compromise for the ultimate in strength and reliability IMO.

Hope that helps.

(back to my holiday)
Greg :D

[LowRanger]

Hi, sorry for the quick reply but i am supposed to be enjoyng a family holiday and am sneaking a quick peek. ;)

Thanks wayne for all your feedback and testing, I am now happy to finally relaese all the kits i have been holding back ( yes grimace you are the first! ) . Waynes defender looks mad! and i am sure there are going to be some insanely jealous nissan's out there. The shock tune seems to be pretty spot on , so i can now start to organise some for late feb/ early march with the rover specific valving. In the mean time i can do special tunes in low volume if required, but i need to get feedback on what sizes are going to be best suited.

As for the weight of the arms, anyone who knows my work knows i don't do things by halves. My theory is, everything my stuff is attached to should fail first! I am all about strength and quality - no compromise. I let evryone else sell cheap $hit that doesn't last. I designed the superflex arms to be a one off purchase and wether they are for a comp car or a weekend warrior they should last forever. There is a specific design criteria that i use for all the arms, and the added mass is mostly in the center and rear of the arm which is added to the percentage of sprung mass - a necessary compromise for the ultimate in strength and reliability IMO.

Hope that helps.

(back to my holiday)
Greg :D

Thanks for that Greg.I didn't feel it was my position to get into too long and drawn out explanation of the whys' and wherefores.:wasntme:
I was just going to post for Serg's benefit that you were away on holiday and that is probably why you hadn't replied to his PM:D

Will post up a few more pics of the suspension working if people want to see any more:cool:

[uninformed]

post those pics Wanye, the more the better. :cool:

I wasnt concerned with the strength of the SE arms or why they are built that way.

You may recall my posts where I remarked about what a mate of mine and I found when we purposly bent and cut up stock arms to see what strength they were and material type. From memory approx 1.5 times stronger than good mild steel. We made some longer arms (+500mm) and they weighed about 15~16kg. I can not run these arms as the engineer says I need a peice of paper to weld ;)

happy holidays

[Bush65]

Wayne, I take it the pin end is also a Nissan bush? I think Greg said that it is a touch smaller pin but the bush size fits the LR chassis mount spot on, so more rubber = more deflection. (I could well be wrong on ALL of that)

I asked at Super Pro, and they do not do an improved bush for that end of the Nissan like the LR with the groove around the dia.

So it begs the question, do you think the Nissan bush better than the LR Super Pro improved bush?

Greg, any chance you could Answer my PM?
The Nissan chassis bushes are exactly the same size everywhere as early RRC bushes (dare I suggest Nissan copied some stuff from the RRC when they updated from leaf to coil suspension).

The larger pin diameter probably came about when coil suspension was introduced later for 110's, etc. Only the hole in the bush changed, thus they have less material to flex and when you push them as far they chop out earlier.

I don't know if Super Pro make bushes for the early RRC in the style that improves flex.

[LowRanger]

post those pics Wanye, the more the better. :cool:

I wasnt concerned with the strength of the SE arms or why they are built that way.

You may recall my posts where I remarked about what a mate of mine and I found when we purposly bent and cut up stock arms to see what strength they were and material type. From memory approx 1.5 times stronger than good mild steel. We made some longer arms (+500mm) and they weighed about 15~16kg. I can not run these arms as the engineer says I need a peice of paper to weld ;)

happy holidays

Hey Serg

I tend to read most of the threads on suspension related items,although I don't comment on most of them,as I don't want to get drawn into the "my idea is better than your idea" type arguments that usually follow;)
I didn't follow up any further earlier,as I thought it would be better to hear it from Greg than from me,and I am happy that Greg chimed in:D

Here is another pic
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/75.jpg

[uninformed]

Here is another pic
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/75.jpg

One may go as far to say that your rig is "balanced" ;)

[isuzutoo-eh]

One may go as far to say that your rig is "balanced" ;)

As the bloke taking the photos, I wholeheartedly agree with the above statement :cool:

Without actually measuring, it did appear that the front has finally caught up with the back in terms of useable travel and willingness to articulate. There was no perceptable difference if the left or right front was in the hole either.

Will need a much taller articulation ramp/challenge at next year's LR expo :angel:

[1MadEngineer]

Here is another pic
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/75.jpg[/COLOR]

HOLY COW!!!!

I love that pic.

[LowRanger]

HOLY COW!!!!

I love that pic.
Greg
:D:D:D:D:D

here are a couple more

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/73.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/74.jpg
Just to show that it can stuff the tyres as well as have down travel

[Jeff]

Wayne, is that with your existing shocks?

Jeff

:rocket:

[isuzutoo-eh]

Wayne, is that with your existing shocks?

Jeff

:rocket:

Three and a half new shocks :p

[LowRanger]

Wayne, is that with your existing shocks?

Jeff

:rocket:

Nah Jeff

It is a constantly evolving project:D;)

[bushrover]

Will post up a few more pics of the suspension working if people want to see any more:cool:

Yes please.......:)

[LowRanger]

Ok here is a shot from a different angle:cool:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/56.jpg

[460cixy]

Looks great still not listed on there web site so I can purchase a set

[Bush65]

Looks great still not listed on there web site so I can purchase a set
They are hidden under Discovery I suspension parts (http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=1723_3125_1728_2205&products_id=21354).

[460cixy]

That's sneaky I can't see many being put on mums shopping wagon

[LowRanger]

They are hidden under Discovery I suspension parts (http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=1723_3125_1728_2205&products_id=21354).

I think you will find that they are just the Superior Engineering replacement drop radius arms,and not the Superflex arms;)

[LowRanger]

Looks great still not listed on there web site so I can purchase a set

Well they never received the official final seal of approval until Saturday:p

[Slunnie]

Wayne, which radius arms do you have installed? Based on the previous pictures I thought you had the dropped arms installed.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/545.jpg



but Superior have their radius arms looking like this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/24.jpg


And the Superflex arms looking like this:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/24.jpg

[LowRanger]

Wayne, which radius arms do you have installed? Based on the previous pictures I thought you had the dropped arms installed.


but Superior have their radius arms looking like this:
http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/img/newsletter/LDR_Radius_arm_Pair_wat.jpg


And the Superflex arms looking like this:

http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/product_thumb.php?w=&h=0&img=images/STDSFARMsml.jpg

Simon
I have the Superflex arms.What you may not realise is that the Superflex system has a normal drop arm on the drivers side,and the superflex arm fitted to the passenger side.I only took a photo of the driver side arm,as I hadn't at that stage even unwrapped the passenger side.

[Slunnie]

Simon
I have the Superflex arms.What you may not realise is that the Superflex system has a normal drop arm on the drivers side,and the superflex arm fitted to the passenger side.I only took a photo of the driver side arm,as I hadn't at that stage even unwrapped the passenger side.
Ahhh, cool, that makes sense. Thanks for this. I thought they were getting incredible amounts of travel for what they were.

[LowRanger]

Here is another pic taken from the opposite side:D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1593.jpg

[LowRanger]

And another angle

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1595.jpg

[1MadEngineer]

Here is another pic taken from the opposite side:D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1593.jpg

That is a great pic! very artistic we the other defender in the background , and the insane flex shot! :o Looks like the Amada's have some good travel.

[LowRanger]

That is a great pic! very artistic we the other defender in the background , and the insane flex shot! :o Looks like the Amada's have some good travel.

Greg

I am really pleased with how it has turned out,I think that The arms give great flex to the front and a combination of the way the rest of the suspension is set up,gives a very balanced feel to the suspension,and I think that it shows in the pics,with the suspension doing what it should do,and flex,whilst allowing the body to remain relatively flat.I will be keen to test it again over different terrain.
The Amadas are a good length for my particular setup,could easily fit longer to the rear,but I see no sense,as it works so well as it is.Other people may require different lengths,dependent on their independent setup.

[Pateyw]

How do they compare to the cor4 arms $ weight and strength ?

[1MadEngineer]

How do they compare to the cor4 arms $ weight and strength ?
Superior arms - ~$1350 including free delivery. BUT superior arms will increase Flex, as they are available in superflex configuration and also, even the standard arms have increase bush diameters and midified pin sizings.
Cor4 arms are ~1000pounds = $1840 aud (as at todays rate), weight wise the superior will be much heavier due to the 32mm gr350 plate and accordingly the strength will be massively greater. Any radius arm with a hole in the main section is subject to early failure from high impact and not recommended for serious offroad duty. The lightweight alloy arms would be ride great onroad or over light terrain where the suspension is cycling at medium frequency and there is minimal impacts. In australia we seem to drive stuff way harder than the rest of the world, and this is generally why you see products made and designed here that are insanely strong when compared to imported stuff. Years of competition use and production of thousands of radius arms have shown us that 32mm steel is the only way to go, to produce a product that will never fail!

cheers
Greg

[LowRanger]

How do they compare to the cor4 arms $ weight and strength ?

Unfortunately this wouldn't be a fair comparison,they are made for a different market and do different jobs.The Cor4 arms are made by one of the former owners of Equipe and would be more comparable to arms by QT or Terrafirma although at a greater cost and possibly better built.


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[uninformed]

Greg, regarding the "modified pin" end, does this utilise a stock bush that can be bought off the shelf, or a special on from Superior? what about the axle end bushes?

If you get a chance, please check my PM

[LowRanger]

Greg, regarding the "modified pin" end, does this utilise a stock bush that can be bought off the shelf, or a special on from Superior? what about the axle end bushes?

If you get a chance, please check my PM

Serge,the bushes are all genuine Nissan;)

[Bush65]

alternatively you can use RRC pin bushes in place of Nissan pin bushes, as I have done with the Nissan superflex radius arms in my bushie.

I had a stock of those RRC bushes and used them when the bushie had a RRC chassis and again when I swapped it to a 110 chassis.

[LowRanger]

alternatively you can use RRC pin bushes in place of Nissan pin bushes, as I have done with the Nissan superflex radius arms in my bushie.

I had a stock of those RRC bushes and used them when the bushie had a RRC chassis and again when I swapped it to a 110 chassis.

Yes you could use these,but unless you have a stockpile of old bushes,I would be reticent to use the new OEM Land Rover bushes,as they seem to be very hit and miss as far as quality goes,even those sold in "Genuine packaging.I could total a set of front chassis bushes in under 1,000km with my previous setup:mad: Quality isn't what it used to be,and OEM doesn't mean original quality;)

[Grimace]

I think you must have been a tad naughty this year Grimace,if there are nothing like this under your Xmas tree
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/545.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1460.jpg ;):p:twisted:

Nice to see they are a black finish. Looks much better IMHO.






I'm impressed! Should the axle bushes be rotated 90 degrees like how the Haultech holey bushes are installed or is that correct?

I was wondering the same thing myself.




I have spoken to Greg about this and this allows the bushes to have maximum deflection,which is what I want,as the vehicle is only a weekend truck.Rotating the bushes will stiffen things a little and will be better for a daily driver.People will be able to confer with Greg and work out what they require.The bushes are genuine Nissan and hence much larger and beefier than the Landie ones,that I was going through like hot cakes:eek:

This has me confused. I can't see how the bushes in this orientation allow more deflection then in a more vertical plane?
All I have for comparison is the use of holey bushes in an almost vertical plane, which wear fast but seem to net similar results to new SF arms.
If indeed the holey bushes will give more deflection in the horizontal plane then I might throw a set on the 2d extreme arms and do a direct comparison with the SF arms on my vehicle.

Can't wait to get the car flexing again, and these new arms look to be the best option for those interested in getting the most out of a Rover front end with out custom links (3 link etc).

[LowRanger]

Nice to see they are a black finish. Looks much better IMHO.







I was wondering the same thing myself.



This has me confused. I can't see how the bushes in this orientation allow more deflection then in a more vertical plane?
All I have for comparison is the use of holey bushes in an almost vertical plane, which wear fast but seem to net similar results to new SF arms.
If indeed the holey bushes will give more deflection in the horizontal plane then I might throw a set on the 2d extreme arms and do a direct comparison with the SF arms on my vehicle.

Can't wait to get the car flexing again, and these new arms look to be the best option for those interested in getting the most out of a Rover front end with out custom links (3 link etc).

Don't worry,you will be able to flex again:p
But just one thing,Holey bushes do NOT net anything remotely similar to the amount of flex you will get from these arms;)
Been there,done that:eek:

[uninformed]

Wayne, looking at the pics, it appears as if there is a little more depth of material in the arms compared to stock. And it looks like some of this is above the centre line. When at full cross articulation, the arm that is on the up travel side, does it come close to fowling on the underside of the front bulkhead outrigger?

[Grimace]

Don't worry,you will be able to flex again:p
But just one thing,Holey bushes do NOT net anything remotely similar to the amount of flex you will get from these arms;)
Been there,done that:eek:

Cheers, I was just comparing the images you have posted to my previous results with holey bushes.
It's hard to compare in that manner.

Might still do a comparison down the track as I will have the cranked arms sitting here doing nothing.

[LowRanger]

Wayne, looking at the pics, it appears as if there is a little more depth of material in the arms compared to stock. And it looks like some of this is above the centre line. When at full cross articulation, the arm that is on the up travel side, does it come close to fowling on the underside of the front bulkhead outrigger?
Serg
Nothing fouls anywhere the way I have things set up,the bump stops would hit before the arms would hit the outrigger,but I do have extended bump stops.But still have plenty of up travel as can be seen in the pics

Cheers, I was just comparing the images you have posted to my previous results with holey bushes.
It's hard to compare in that manner.

Might still do a comparison down the track as I will have the cranked arms sitting here doing nothing.

Grimace
It is probably difficult to compare with pics between a Defender and a Rangie,as the visual reference points are all different.

The limiting factor with my set up is the shocks,where as previously the available travel with the holey bushes was very close to the length of the shocks I previously had fitted,which were shorter than I now have fitted.

[4runnernomore]

Will these become available for D2's in the future?

cheers, Chris

[Jeff]

Is there video?

Jeff

:rocket:

[LowRanger]

Is there video?

Jeff

:rocket:

Nah no video Jeff,the photos are from a day out testing that everything was going to be ok,before they became available for sale ;)

[GoldCloverLeaf]

Insane! I just got back from hols, those SF arms on the LR have exceeded my expectations, you could have told me you put a 3-link in and i would have believed you!

Wayne - what sort of castor correction do the arms have? I recall several pages back there was talk about the possibility of two versions with one somewhere around 3 degree correction?

[Grimace]

Both the SE arms and the Superflex SE arms are listed on the site now in either standard or plus 2".

http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/store.php?cPath=1723_3125_1728_2205

Get Some :)

[Presto]

......

Get Some :)

I just did! :p

[LowRanger]

I just did! :p

You blokes are just copy cats 😺


Sent from my signalling device using Land Rover signals

[Presto]

You blokes are just copy cats 😺
Sent from my signalling device using Land Rover signals[/COLOR]

YOU are just a sales tool! :p

[LowRanger]

Insane! I just got back from hols, those SF arms on the LR have exceeded my expectations, you could have told me you put a 3-link in and i would have believed you!

Wayne - what sort of castor correction do the arms have? I recall several pages back there was talk about the possibility of two versions with one somewhere around 3 degree correction?

Hi Mike
You can get them with zero for standard height vehicles and approx 3* for lifts around 2 inches.After talking to Greg at length,I think it was decided that this were the 2 most common configurations to start with,at least.I have the corrected ones in mine and they are an improvement over my non corrected standard arms,as far as on road drive ability is concerned.


Sent from my signalling device using Land Rover signals

[LowRanger]

YOU are just a sales tool! :p

A happy sales tool 😃
Some have said just a tool😋
At least I had some input into the product👍

Sent from my signalling device using Land Rover signals

[clive22]

Hi



If these fit my earlier 85 County 110 I'll get a set. That front end flex pictured is impressive.

I have heard that the 110's have a different width bushes at the diff end and was wondering if anyone knows if these will still fit. The part nos are different when you order bushes.

[isuzutoo-eh]

Clive, I understand Superior has the measurements for the narrower trailing arms, so best to hold off till they are available. You may want to email Superior telling them you'd like a set though so they can gauge popularity.

[uninformed]

I thought it would have come down to the Nissan bushes used. The arms main body is 32mm wide, os they will fit the 40mm early mount. The bush part of the arm would be determind by the Nissan bush....

So how wide is the Nissan Bush?

Pin end: If I have it correct, it seems the only difference between LR early and late arms is the pin dia, NOT the chassis mount. So, that should mean the arms bolt in there also.

[Presto]

Just measured mine - main bushes are 50mm wide, the lower bush for the bracket arm is 60mm wide.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/546.jpg