130 rear springs.

[130man]

Hi All. I have recently removed the service body from my Ex-Telstra extra cab 130 and have replaced it with an aluminium tray. The body was rather heavier than I expected, given it was made from aluminium and now the ride with the much lighter tray is truly awful. It bounces like a buckboard. I will probably go to air springs but in the short term, will removing the inner coil spring make a worthwhile difference to the ride? I have twin rear shocks which were necessary with the box body but I have removed the second shock from each side. That has improved the ride noticeably but it is still very stiff. I don't want to start carrying bags of sand etc to improve the ride if I can avoid it.Should I drop the tyre pressures and , if so, to what? All opinions, especialy based on experience, will be appreciated. Cheers, 130man.

[Landy110]

No first hand experience but it is my understanding that there is a lower load varient of the 130 that does not have the second springs so take them out and make sure the shocks aren't hard. When I bought my 110 wagon it had hard shocks in it and it wouldn't flex and was awful. take the shocks out and it was as soft as, so I went back to standard shocks and it was beautiful. Try it!
As for tyre pressures I run 34psi all round, that would be a good starting point, the tyres would have much higher pressure than that given the load it has been carrying.

Steve

[130man]

Hi Steve, thanks for the fast reply and the good suggestions. I will try them tomorrow. Cheers, 130man.

[roverrescue]

Definitely remove the inner spring - you could replace it with polyairs unless you are sure you will go full air, if so it will be a wasted expense...

For whatever irrational reason I have found that polys in the main stock spring (no inner spring) with an ally tray and Bilsteins rides like a dream compared with the twin spring set up. And funnily enough, when you do load up it actually sags less than with the twin coils?

Air pressures depends on what you are doing...
My 130 with has 235/85 Bridgy MT and generally >75% on dirt roads;
If my load is light the front will have about 28psi and the rear maybe 30-32psi.
If heavy loaded Ill bump the rears up towards 38psi

On the black stuff if I have to do km Ill put them all up a fair bit.

Ive flogged a heap of different fourbies along dirt roads, despite the gutless engine a 130 with a well balanced suspension is amazingly quick - the wheelbase just soaks up the bigger ruts and rumbles that others are slowing for.

Steve

[rick130]

Ross, you've seen how loaded up mine is, it grosses at 3000kg without the driver fully loaded for work (doesn't at the mo though) and I removed the inners years ago.

Do it, it makes a difference, but you may have to remove one pair of your twin damper setup.
Experiment with the duals first, then remove one pair.

[danialan]

I took the inner springs out of my 130. Improved the ride but still very firm with only an alloy tray. Unloaded I run 32 psi front, 25 rear as there is bugger all weight back there. (45 front, and 55 back with the camper on 3.3t). Measuring the tyre tread lengths on a flat surface will give you an idea of the pressure to run.

I put in 2nd hand GU Patrol polyair bags in the back for when we are loaded up - cost $50 and work great.

Alan

[uninformed]

Un related, but any chance this ex Telstra 130 has a modified rear diff housing, ie braced/strengthend? If so, some pics would be great.

Not sure of the spring rate on the outer main coil, could be 320lb, same as 110 CC, but I changed mine to 250lb. Ok when towing or loaded, but is still like to go softer.

[rick130]

Un related, but any chance this ex Telstra 130 has a modified rear diff housing, ie braced/strengthend? If so, some pics would be great.

Not sure of the spring rate on the outer main coil, could be 320lb, same as 110 CC, but I changed mine to 250lb. Ok when towing or loaded, but is still like to go softer.

Ross's diff housing is extensively braced, it looks like an off road race axle housing.

I hear what you're saying re spring rate, I contemplated some custom wound 220-250lb coils to give me the ride height I wanted and at that rate and length they also wouldn't unseat at full droop, but I'm going to go air bags.

[spudboy]

I've got an ex-telstra 130 too. I kept the alloy body, which is very heavy. I estimate it is between 500 to 600Kg given the flex it puts on my tractor forks when I lift it off.

They have extensive diff/axle strengthening, and run a military Wolf diff in the rear. Telstra had a lot of trouble with the standard diffs and LR got these fitted for them to try and sort out their problems. Front diff is standard.

Mine does not have twin shocks - would be interested to see a photo of how that works.

Cheers
David

[130man]

Hi Everybody, thanks for the very useful suggestions. I didn't manage to get to the suspension today as other things came up. Perhaps tomorrow. I will see if I can manage to up load some photos soon The rear diff is definitely not a Salisbury, which it should have been in a 2000 MY Defender, so David is probably right about it being a Wolf modification. The twin shockers were installed by me using a standard upper shock mount behind the axle and at the same angle rearwards as the original ones were forwards. I have some local expert fabricators who are very helpful and they made custom rear-of- axle lower brackets. It made a big difference to the ride with the box body in place. As David says, it is startlingly heavy but very well made. We have purchased a Trayon Camper , thus the need to instal a tray. Given how much weight Rick carries, I reckon there is no need for the inner spring at all and I will play with tyre pressures. I will keep you posted as I get things done. Cheers, 130man.

[uninformed]

130man, Spudboy, if either of you could post up some clear pics from front and rearf of the rear housing, I would much appreciate. If posting is hard you can email them. PM me for my addy

cheers
Serg

[newhue]

130man, do you think your outers are standard? I have set of standard outers going to the tip soon, more than welcome to them. I reckon e.go.com can freight then to you for less than $10

[weeds]

130man, do you think your outers are standard? I have set of standard outers going to the tip soon, more than welcome to them. I reckon e.go.com can freight then to you for less than $10

that would cost me more than that to come over and pick them up......let us know if you do not off load them as i really need a heavy set for touring mode now that i do not have poly airs

[rick130]

that would cost me more than that to come over and pick them up......let us know if you do not off load them as i really need a heavy set for touring mode now that i do not have poly airs

Kelvin, 130 outers are 110 rear springs ;)

[130man]

Hi Everyone, I managed to remove the inner springs today and have to report only a minor improvement in ride quality. Next step is to drop the tyre pressures which I will do tomorrow morning. Without the box body the performance is markedly better both in acceleration and stopping. I wonder what would happen if I hit a bump while under brakes? I am almost certain the rear tyres would lose their grip, albeit for only a moment. The springs are Kings with HD as part of their ID code which suggests a heavier than standard spring to me. Any comment ? I will take some photos as soon as I find my digital camera and e-mail them. Cheers, 130man.

[uninformed]

your spring rate could be anything: ??? They could be custom for the job, custom by the previous owner??

King make their own range, and make many for others, example OME from ARB are king made to ARB spec (rate)

I remember years ago when quizing King their own HD springs were, IMO, crazy heavy. Something like up in the 400lb rate :confused:

As has been said 320lb is the OEM outer/main spring rate. Are you still running the twin shocks?

I would try and get hold of some OEM 320s to trial run as a starting point.

[weeds]

Kelvin, 130 outers are 110 rear springs ;)

Oh.....well they should be HD, than this would help me out

But these could still be I'm better condition than mine

[130man]

Hi Uninformed, I pulled the second set of shockies off a few days ago and it made a small difference. Whats left on it is a pair of Bilsteins. I live on one of the worst roads in the Hunter Valley and the ride is now awful. The weight of the box body clearly made the springs and shockies work well.. I will keep you posted on progress.Cheers, 130man.

[rick130]

Ross, if you accurately measure the wire diameter and number of coils, including the closed and ground ends, we can work out the rate.

Kings would probably tell us too, they aren't like most companies who are secretive when it comes to rates.

[uninformed]

King will tell you their rates. If they are custom they may have them on file. They are reluctant to give specs on springs they make for other companies.

[130man]

Hi everyone, I dropped the tyre pressures further , down to 35 PSI front and rear and that has made yet another noticeable difference to general comfort. However, it has not made any difference to the jarring when I hit those unavoidable potholes or the bounce when I hit a ridge in the road. The springs have the following printed on them; KLRR-05 HD [ or maybe -0S , it is hard to tell ]There are six complete turns and the wire diameter is around 16 mm. My calipers are hiding, probably with the digital camera, so the last is an intelligent guess and may be out by a mm either way. Cheers, Ross.

[130man]

Hi again, I managed to find the Kings Springs catalogue for coil springs and the numbers I quoted in the previous post correspond to 300kg to 500kg constant load springs, which fits the need quite well for the box body given its apparent weight. Rather too hard for the new light tray, although it will carry heavier loads now and again. What are the down sides of a basic air spring set up, with no automatic features, just a valve located securely and a length of airline? Cheers, Ross.

[rick130]

Ross, are you talking full air bags in the back with manual control, or polyairs ?

I can't see a problem with full bags with a manual air fitting.

That's hopefully what I'll be doing soon.

[130man]

Hi Rick, yes, full air bags in the rear. I like the apparent adjustability as well as the reported improvement in all round ride. As far as I can tell, most of the issues in air suspensions are to do with the control of ride height and the sensors associated with that. Very few people report problems with the actual air bags . I hope that is the case. Tim NZ has a thread on 130 rear airbags that is very positive and he even includes drawings of the adaptors needed to be made to fit the bags to the 130 spring turrets. He went with Firestone airbags . I have yet to approach "The Airbag Man" for prices on a suitable kit but will do so soon. Cheers, Ross.

[rick130]

There are a couple of really good threads on bags here.

Here's some light reading (I had them all bookmarked :D)

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/modified-zone/143993-my-4-corner-airbag-install.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/135463-cal415s-puma-130-a-4.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/good-oil/56981-air-bag-suspension-defender.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=1236977

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/105345-rangiers-isuzu-4bd1t-120-a.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/38917-d110-airbagging-rear-end.html#post549364

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/38917-d110-airbagging-rear-end.html#post549364

[rick130]

I also have a fair bit of tech stuff from Firestone, manuals, catalogues, charts, etc.

[130man]

Hi Rick, that light reading took up most of this evening. Very informative, however. I am making some phone calls in the morning which will determine which way I go. Looks pretty sure I will go with air springs of some sort. I have been offered some standard 110 coils for free so will use them in the meantime. Should smooth the ride , certainly while there is no great load on the tray. Cheers, Ross.

[130man]

HI everyone. These coil springs I have been given turn out to be slightly different lengths, by about one centimetre. Is this normal and does it mean they are handed? I recall leaf springs on Land Rovers being different to allow for the weight of the driver. Is this the case with coils? Thanks, Ross.

[rick130]

Normally longer = drivers side.

What's the colour code on them Ross ?

[spudboy]

Yeah - drivers side longer is the proper way, but I've wondered if the longer ones should go on the passenger side to even up the camber of the road..... ;)

[130man]

Hi Rick, the coils are black. The longer coil has light blue dabs of paint while the other one has light green dabs of paint. The wire diameter is close to 17mm. Hi David, would you still like the photos of the extra shock absorber mounts? I can e-mail them to you easily, I think. Cheers, Ross.

[130man]

Hi Rick, in addition to the last post, the outside diameter of the coil is 175mm. The kings spring coil seems a little larger in diameter. Ross.

[rick130]

IIRC they're supposed to be 7" OD Ross, fronts are 6".

I can't find those colours on the lists I have Ross, so don't know what rate they are ?

[130man]

Hi Rick, on close inspection I have found the springs to have BW 12 and BW10 stamped into them. BW 12 is the longer spring. Does this help? I have not yet installed them as there is too much on at the moment.Cheers, Ross.

[spudboy]

Hi Rick, the coils are black. The longer coil has light blue dabs of paint while the other one has light green dabs of paint. The wire diameter is close to 17mm. Hi David, would you still like the photos of the extra shock absorber mounts? I can e-mail them to you easily, I think. Cheers, Ross.


Hi - photos would be good, thanks. My email is daviddeere at hotmail dot com

I was wondering about putting dual shocks on mine, but it sounds like you got on better with only single (softer) shocks with a light load.

Mine will still have the heavy canopy on it, so the 'light load' scenario will probably never happen in my case.

[130man]

Hi . I swapped over the old coil springs I was given in place of the Kings HD ones today and immediately lost 55mm of clearance between the top of the tyres and the underside of the tray. The ride quality has improved markedly but there is only about 85mm clearance left. So no heavy loads in the short term, I expect. Everthing has its downside. As an after thought , what would happen to the ride etc if I returned the inner coils to the suspension? Perhaps an intermediate ride/ clearance compromise? Any thoughts? Cheers, Ross.

[uninformed]

Im guessing that it would be closer to the HD springs you had in ride, while not much higher in ride height??

If you like the ride of the current coils, why not get some made longer. Actually I have a brand new set of LRA coils in 320lb longer than OEM....

you could go to a variable rate coil, Ill let others fill the tech in as I havent looked into them much.

[rick130]

When you get a chance, if you could measure the rear bump stop/axle pad clearance Ross, I'd be interested to see what it is.

Serg, do you want me to bring some front springs up in three weeks time ?

[uninformed]

Yes thanks mate.......and your koni tools :D

[rick130]

I'll have to make another one/repair the one I have.

Everytime I open one I break the tool :(

I asked Geoff at Proven about buying a genuine one off them and he said they just make their own as they keep breaking them.......

It's just a pin tool, but the top caps are tight.

I have the parts list too, I dug it out the other night.

[uninformed]

If Ross hasnt sorted springs by then you could take my lra back for him to trial....

[130man]

Hi all, coming home last night I hit the end of one of the local bridges which has a sharpish incline and bottomed out badly on the rear suspension. This was while travelling at the normal speed, so I clearly used up all the available travel and then some. I was only carrying four sheets of ply, so there was negligable load. Definitely need to improve the travel , in the short term , until I can get the air springs thing happening. One of the threads on air springs mentions engineering certification. Is this essential? Bump stop clearance seems to be about 80mm, Rick. Otherwise, ride comfort was quite acceptable. Cheers, Ross.

[rick130]

They must be reasonably soft Ross, I'm just kissing my bumps stops but not really feeling it with the standard 110 rear springs.

[130man]

Hi Rick, the previous owner of the springs replaced them because they were sagging so I imagine they are really past their use by date. they will do as an interim measure although I may re-install the centre coils as an experiment . Cheers, Ross.

[130man]

Hi all, after a few days away , I managed to get back on to the rear suspension this afternoon. I have now re-installed the original inner coil springs into the older coils I was given. It was worth the effort as the ride height has improved significantly without too much loss of ride comfort. I took it for a test run this evening and had no situation where the tyres touched the underside of the tray. I have had the metal parts made to adapt the air springs to the 130 axle plate and upper spring mount, using the detailed drawings supplied by TimNZ in his thread on installing rear air springs. There is a fabrication business reasonably close that has a CNC plasma cutter. The next step is to order the air springs. Cheers, Ross.

[130man]

Hi all. air springs ordered tonight. We shall see how long it takes to receive the springs. Cheers, Ross.

[130man]

HI all, the airsprings arrived yesterday. Now to assemble all the necessary parts. I need two Schrader valves and some means of mounting them as well as some way of adapting the valves to the 10mm ID air line I have on hand. I have fittings to connect the airline to the threaded fitting on the airspring. Any suggestions as to where to go for the valves and adaptor fittings would be welcome. [ Newcastle/ Maitland area] . The local car parts places are not able to help. Thanks in advance. Cheers, Ross.

[130man]

Hi all, I managed to gather all the hardware I need, I hope, today . Nuts and washers to suit the threads from Harris bolts in Rutherford plus a suitable tap for the base mount. Took advice on finding Schrader valves and tracked down two at a Farm irrigation supplies in Maitland who were also able to adapt them to the airline I intend to use. Should be able to get on with the job on the weekend depending on the weather. Cheers, 130man.