Puma, 5 cyl 3.2 Tdci

[goingbush]

Anyone noticed the New Ford Ranger has the 5cyl Duratorq 3.2 litre engine
which may be an easy bolt in retrofit into the Puma.
In Ford Australia Ranger Wildtrack trim its 147kw@3000rpm & 470nm
which is a decent improvment over the 2.2.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/09/959.jpg

[jakeslouw]

NOW THAT IS AN ENGINE!!!!

[cal415]

Its on my to do list... if i ever get my hands on one cheap enough :)

Bell Auto Services has just done one into a 90(probobly the pic you have posted), same motor but out of a transit, there is some info on the defender2 forum somewhere, looks like a great swap.

[JayBoRover]

Yummy!!!:cool:

[TimNZ]

Defender2 - View topic - 3.2TDCI 200BHP into a Defender 90, It can be done! (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic13816.html)

Bit of light reading....

[dobbo]

Is it true they nicknamed it the Puma because the engine produces the same performance as a 110 being towed by a cat in a harness?

Probably the same cat they tested the air gaps on.

[rick130]

Dobbo, I'm glad you said "cat in a harness" and not "pussy in a harness" otherwise my mind would be reeling by now :angel:

[uninformed]

That looks like a fun engine bay to work in ....

[rick130]

That looks like a fun engine bay to work in ....

Funny, that was my first thought too....

[uninformed]

Id be interested to see the Radiator, intercooler, A/C condenser set up and also the engine temps run if used in Oz in summer....

[noogie]

I don't like the chances of that engine ever gracing a Defender engine bay.

It appears that Landrover like the Defender to be underpowered and never upstage the disco or rangies. the whole drivetrain would need to chage.
A Mate of mine has the new navara with v6 diesel. beast of an engine but nissan insist on putting the 3 litre in the patrol.

I guess it happens in the japanese camp also.

[frantic]

No boogie the Japanese carry the same engine across from their passenger 4bies, navara has the pathfinder donks, hilux the playdo, triton the pajero/challenger. But Mazda has the same English built engine as the ford ranger, puma td5, 3.2, which may be building a wagon version. Patrol has the hg3.0td as the 4.2six didn't meet emissions and was not worthwhile with a new patrol due soon, the Toyota mob put a detuned tdv8 into their commercials which LR should learn from;)
Imagine the sales of a fully coil sprung defender with a 200kw tdv8. Obviously they cant:( sorry but the current $15-20,000 difference between a series toymota and a defender would pay for stronger axles and better clutch,prop, gearbox with change even using Ashcroft retail. Hell at that price they could flog the auto out of a territory and mate it to their transfer case for low range.

[TimNZ]

That looks like a fun engine bay to work in ....

About the same as the stock engine. :( It is only 1 cylinder longer than the 2.4.

[Drover]

About the same as the stock engine. :( It is only 1 cylinder longer than the 2.4.

And there is a gap of about 45cm between the fan and radiator...:)

[TimNZ]

Id be interested to see the Radiator, intercooler, A/C condenser set up and also the engine temps run if used in Oz in summer....

From what I've read on the UK threads Bell Autos are using purpose built intercoolers, (inlet/outlet diameters are larger), and radiators from Allisport.

Cheers,

Tim

[pop058]

I don't like the chances of that engine ever gracing a Defender engine bay.

It appears that Landrover like the Defender to be underpowered and never upstage the disco or rangies. the whole drivetrain would need to chage.
A Mate of mine has the new navara with v6 diesel. beast of an engine but nissan insist on putting the 3 litre in the patrol.

I guess it happens in the japanese camp also.

Nissan are running out the diesel in the pootrol anyway

[uninformed]

About the same as the stock engine. :( It is only 1 cylinder longer than the 2.4.
sorry, Im only use to a TDi engine bay, so not sure of the 2.4/2.2TDic...but looking at that pic, looks even more crammed than mine!

As for the 450mm from the fan and Rad, what BS, even if joking. I think you are being decived by the large platsic shroud that comes up and hugs the engine block.....how the hell would they get the 5cyl further back, by any decent amount to a 300tdi...which was pushed forward for production line reasons..

Where is the front pullly in relation to the front axle on the currenet 2.2 defenders?

[c.h.i.e.f]

I'm not sure but I don't think my puma came with a motor :confused: I thought it was only a radiator shroud :D if they would worry more about motors and drive lines than enormous shrouds and playdow drive components I would deffinately spend more on one

[101RRS]

With the exception of the fact that it has 5 cylinders what relevance has this engine to Landrover - I thought that in other threads on this it was decided that is the sole relevance.

Garry

[rick130]

With the exception of the fact that it has 5 cylinders what relevance has this engine to Landrover - I thought that in other threads on this it was decided that is the sole relevance.

Garry


Everyone supposed it would fit, BAS have made it fit.

It has oodles of torque and HP.

The gearbox behind it should be able to bolt up to an LT230 reasonably readily (maybe) seeing as it's very closely related to the MT82 used behind the 2.4 and 2.2 TDCi's. Apparently only bearing sizes are different. Ashcrofts mated it to the LT230.

Over the next few years there will be more than a few of these engines available via wrecks in Rangers and BT50's so it may be another way to repower a Deefer with something that has decent torque rather than using a (heavy) old school 4BD1T.

I'd love a 4BD1T, but they are a lump of a thing, the extra 150kg up front really puts me off and the HS2.8TGV really isn't a viable option anymore regarding spares availability, etc.

Could I afford a 3.2 conversion ? not at the moment, but I can dream :D

[uninformed]

................ HS2.8TGV really isn't a viable option anymore regarding spares availability, etc.

Could I afford a 3.2 conversion ? not at the moment, but I can dream :D

Thanks :eek:

The other Id like to see, and maybe more readily available sooner is the v6 diesel used in the ford teritory's

Arent these the 2.7v6 Land-ford-rover engine :confused:

if it wasnt for dreaming I wouldnt have a life :(

[ant_schomacker]

Wow! Sounds awesome... might have to start saving now for it in about 5 years time though :( Anyone know how much? I didn't see the cost in the post on Defender2.

[uninformed]

I wonder how the torque of this engine, plus the 65 or so - 1 low 1st ratio will go with regards to axle and cv strength.....and then the imfamous P38 type rear........

[rick130]

Thanks :eek:


See i know this bloke that has a 2.8 and he had to get some bits and...oh...:angel:


The other Id like to see, and maybe more readily available sooner is the v6 diesel used in the ford teritory's

Arent these the 2.7v6 Land-ford-rover engine :confused:

I was going to say what about space width wise being a TDV6, but there used to be a 90* V8 in the Deefer engine bay once upon a time.


if it wasnt for dreaming I wouldnt have a life :(Aah, grasshopper, all life is but a dream, nothing is real.... :D

[jakeslouw]

The TDV6 is significantly shorter and narrower than the Rover V8.

BAS and/or Nene did a 4.0 V8 to TDV6 conversion in a Discovery 2 and there was space to spare.

So putting a TDV6 into a defender SHOULD be a no-brainer.

If you use an electronic or semi-electronic auto box that can handle the torque, then no issues.

Once again: nobody can tell me why Land Rover refuses to provide this as an option. Apart from pig-headedness.

[uninformed]

The TDV6 is significantly shorter and narrower than the Rover V8.

BAS and/or Nene did a 4.0 V8 to TDV6 conversion in a Discovery 2 and there was space to spare.

So putting a TDV6 into a defender SHOULD be a no-brainer.

If you use an electronic or semi-electronic auto box that can handle the torque, then no issues.

Once again: nobody can tell me why Land Rover refuses to provide this as an option. Apart from pig-headedness.


Jake, LR biggest market for the Defender is Europe, and alot of those countries have a big tax increase on vehicle with engine displacment over 2.5ltr.

While I dont have a problem with this, LR should have another engine option for the ROW....but they dont really care about the Defender that much. This is a a shame, as at this time, we are leading into a movemnet where there will be NO vehicle ANY brand that will be what it COULD be.

I had a look at the new VW Amarack last weekend. From the outside looks like a great build Qual. with a decnet chassis.....now if they would only make it live axle front rear, coil all round etc....

LR could do so much better with the concept of the Def. That is a seperate chassis and body, live axle....IF done right/well it would kill it in the industrial/commerical and doemstic sectors AND build the Old ICON base that once was the Old Series LRs....

[jakeslouw]

@UNINFORMED

No arguments, mate, but I just think that Europe is the biggest market BECAUSE the Defender is AIMED at that market.

Look how Jeep has continually upgraded and modernized the Wrangler WITHOUT destroying the essential essence of the brand!

It now has airbags, a brilliant factory sound system, and a brilliant dash, BUT you can still get it in diesel OR petrol, auto OR manual, and you can still rip off the doors and roof with little effort and drive it as a doorless soft-top.

If LR had said "right, let's see what can be done on a budget" we could get more engine and gearbox options in the ROW and hence higher sales.

If LR could just penetrate the American market alone with the Defender variants, they'd NEVER have a revenue problem. Let alone the sales in Africa and Australia where we've been crying for a better Defender for years.

And the 2.5L tax issue is for COMMERCIAL vehicles only: so sell the Defender in an entry level commercial spec with less than 2.5L DCi engine, for the utility market, and then offer the higher spec with TDV6/8 and a V6 petrol, auto AND manual.

ALL THESE OPTIONS are available out of the LR parts box.

No sorry, once again, **** poor foresight from LR marketing and R&D departments.
And yes, they COULD do so much better with the Defender Concept: some newer styling, better ergos, safety compliance, and various engine/gearbox options but as you said: ladder chassis and riveted body just like it is today, just newer, just fresher.

[uninformed]

im happy with the body styling....you cant get as much room in a sphere as you can a cube ;) the short bonnet and driving position is great...the fit and finsh is horrible. The use of aluminium for the body is great...the corrosion protection on the steel is junk.

How can a vehicle built in a country that rains so much leak???

Im sure with modern computer modeling, a full alu body could be made, with removable pannels. keep the ladder frame chassis in steel. Better seats, better internal layout and finish, but the base model still has to be hoseable....

I agree with what you have said. I think the problem may be, that the histroy of LR shows, they like to lead the way in technology...even coil springs and disc brakes were mordern tech once....and with that, they see no future in this vehicle, but rather the new concept elctro gizmo machine.....it does suck this may be there view

[c.h.i.e.f]

from what i can gather is that each individual vehicle MAY have to meet the euro emission standards but landrovers full scale operations probably looks at the overall total emissions count for the company...as someone previously said they cant have the old defender that looks "unappealing" to most have more power/features/options than the disco or rangie so they give the defender one option and thats it!! which so happens to be smaller and smaller motors for the same size car (2.5-2.4-2.2)which they claim is to meet pollution laws (other criteria would also need to be met too but what that is i have no idea)..

BUT wait a sec the disco motor was 2.7td then went to 3.0td same said for the range rovers 3.6td to 4.4td why can they up the capacity at one end of the market but not the other? i say its to meet an average %....

personally i dislike the small motors being in a car with such a mass...the defender is more aimed at the UK market which after 1hr driving your probably crossed 2 states (ive never been there so thats an unrealistic figure) over here we expect to tow heavy loads long distances (1hr driving is a trip to work) dusty conditions, hot climate all expected by the same little motors that are in the UK....i look at the toyota/nissan 4.2 inline6's designed by the japanese but aimed at the australian market do big klm's with ease in the australian conditions....however i am not saying Europe make rubbish i personally like there engineering but they dont take into consideration our conditions on this dry continent.

[camel_landy]

Once again: nobody can tell me why Land Rover refuses to provide this as an option. Apart from pig-headedness.
We can tell you but do you want to listen to the answer??

As much as we all love the Defender, it is a very expensive car to produce as it is very labour intensive. Therefore it is difficult for Land Rover to make enough money on it to cover development costs, etc... Developing a different engine option for ROW just isn't viable so if you want a car with the TDV6, why not buy a Disco? It has the ladder chassis, better seats, layout, etc...

Think yourself lucky that the Defender is able to be produced & sold as a car at all!!! It can't be sold in the US as it doesn't meet safety requirements and it can only be sold in the EU as it has been shown that it is an 'evolution' of the 60yr old design!

So don't be quite so quick to criticise;

"they see no future in this vehicle, but rather the new concept elctro gizmo machine".

You've got to start somewhere and I actually like some of the 'concepts'. Don't forget that these are 'CONCEPTS' and all YOU have seen are pictures...

...and how can you judge from just looking at a picture??? If you compared pictures of a Defender vs the new L405 RaRo, would you even realise that the new RaRo has a wading depth of almost twice what the Defender is???

Developing a replacement for the Defender isn't an easy task but it is made all the more difficult by the 'pure-ists' whinging all the time! Frankly, Land Rover need to develop a car that does the job required, meets the strict EU & US legislation but will also sell by the bucket load... If this also meets the requirements of the pure-ists, then great but if not... Tough.

M

[camel_landy]

personally i dislike the small motors being in a car with such a mass...the defender is more aimed at the UK market which after 1hr driving your probably crossed 2 states (ive never been there so thats an unrealistic figure) over here we expect to tow heavy loads long distances (1hr driving is a trip to work) dusty conditions, hot climate all expected by the same little motors that are in the UK....i look at the toyota/nissan 4.2 inline6's designed by the japanese but aimed at the australian market do big klm's with ease in the australian conditions....however i am not saying Europe make rubbish i personally like there engineering but they dont take into consideration our conditions on this dry continent.
The Defender is a 'van'... It is a work horse. It isn't designed for long distance comfort. It is designed for you to throw your tools in the back to get them onto a building site or remote location of your farm.

If you want a work horse, that's more comfortable covering the distances, you buy a Disco commercial. Sure, the Disco Commercial doesn't have the looks of a Defender but it is the tool LR have for the job.

M

[uninformed]

The commerical Disco....is it available in Oz, and if so how much $$$ should I spend on a "work truck"

If you havent ventured 500km inland from the coast of Oz, you are missing the point and potential of the LR def for what it could be....much like LR

the new concept vehicle may have all the wading depth in the world, it means bugger all if some hot dusty corrogated roads stop it dead in its track. Lets face it, LR quality control and exicution of wirring and electronics is not steller.

The body pannels must have no structural value. If air bags go off, the vehicle still needs to be able to be made mobile. Electronic traction control, abs and eletronic gearboxes are all good, but only when working 100%. Make a mechaincal base model, with a stand alone engine that isnt hooked up to and monitoring every wheel, bearing and gear in the car...

[rick130]

The Defender is a 'van'... It is a work horse. It isn't designed for long distance comfort. It is designed for you to throw your tools in the back to get them onto a building site or remote location of your farm.

[snip]

M

And as a consequence you have forever bequeathed the farm/commercial/mining sector to Toyota and the other Japanese manufacturers.

Where does Toyota and Nissan sell most full size commercial 4x4's ?

A certain big wide brown dusty land where just going shopping can be a couple of hundred km trip, (it is for me, and I'm only 5 hours from Sydney) with another big wide brown dusty continent not far behind.

Land Rover complain about not selling vehicles, then abandon two huge entire markets to the opposition ?
Both markets they actually owned at one stage.

I just don't get it..........

[camel_landy]

The commerical Disco....is it available in Oz, and if so how much $$$ should I spend on a "work truck"
Availability, dunno but don't forget that it's the residual values which are just as important as the initial purchase price. ;)


If you havent ventured 500km inland from the coast of Oz, you are missing the point and potential of the LR def for what it could be....much like LR
I'm not missing the point & I have ventured 500km inland...


the new concept vehicle may have all the wading depth in the world, it means bugger all if some hot dusty corrogated roads stop it dead in its track.
...and how can you tell how good a vehicle will be just by looking at a picture? Go on, I'd love to know?

I think you'll find that the cars are tested more than you're giving them credit for.

There's also nowt wrong with electrical systems in cars... It's just a different set of problems for which you just need a different set of skills to deal with them. And let's face it, ECUs, electronics, etc... are here to stay!

M

[camel_landy]

And as a consequence you have forever bequeathed the farm/commercial/mining sector to Toyota and the other Japanese manufacturers.

Where does Toyota and Nissan sell most full size commercial 4x4's ?

A certain big wide brown dusty land where just going shopping can be a couple of hundred km trip, (it is for me, and I'm only 5 hours from Sydney) with another big wide brown dusty continent not far behind.

Land Rover complain about not selling vehicles, then abandon two huge entire markets to the opposition ?
Both markets they actually owned at one stage.

I just don't get it..........
I know, that's the problem with the way the company was being run and who owned it in those days. :(

I think it was probably a case of not wanting to spread themselves too thinly across too many markets as there were far deeper issues with the British motor industry in those days and they didn't have the resources to cope.

M

[newhue]

camel_landy, if you want some feedback for LR. I'm not sure if I would by anther.

back in 2010 when I paid 60K for my work truck, in the first 6 weeks of ownership LR had it working out an electrical issue. Not a great start for a work truck. Basic as it may be. But since then it has had a steady trickle if small issues.
I could work myself into accepting the price because it was the only twin cab on the market here in Aus that is a real 4x4. It would also double up as the family weekend and holiday fun. It does that very well.
However after drowning the previous car, a japanese twin cab. I now live in fear of any water crossing over 500mm with my Defer. This is my choice, but many adventures involve water deeper than 500mm. Many people would be much happier with a higher wading depth. I'd prefer no electrics, but if I have to have them at least water proof.
I have a steading growing fear of remote or expansive vehicle recovery be it with long distance travel or a stint in the local bush (greenlanding) due to large show stopping component reliability. At the moment getting a diff or gear box replaced under warranty is not a guarantee it wont fail again. Not a great warranty statement for LR. Not a great warm fuzzy feeling once out of warranty.
If LR view the Defender as a farm truck, a basic go any where work truck; then yes they have one. But they have done very poorly supplying farmers and the like with a simple reliable vehicle.

[rick130]

I know, that's the problem with the way the company was being run and who owned it in those days. :(

I think it was probably a case of not wanting to spread themselves too thinly across too many markets as there were far deeper issues with the British motor industry in those days and they didn't have the resources to cope.

M

and the problem ran through a couple of successive owners more recently too.

I'm well aware of some of the decisions that were being made fifteen years ago and had been made in the previous fifteen or so years as I was working with a really good (ex) Land Rover person who had escaped and then become an outside consultant, and I met a few of the excellent people still inside here.

They were so passionate about the product and so bloody frustrated in the directions things were taken.
It all came back to poor decisions and no resources.

As a foil to that, my mate has been working for a Japanese heavy vehicle manufacturer for the last near decade and was so impressed by the way the company was run.

There was a ten year vision of where the company and product needed to be, with the dips, peaks and dives of sales in shorter periods pretty much recognised and ignored for what they were, normal market ups and downs.
He said it made working for them a delight, everyone knew where they were going and it was all based on solid reasoning with all engineering based on solid, sound decisions and methods.

They have subsequently been bought by a large northern European owned truck manufacturer and the culture is so different he will probably bail.

No vision, just a reactionary culture where planning decisions can be turned 180* in the space of three months, purely down to a short, abnormal sales period.

It seems it's all based around looking good for the share market (and therefore institutional investors) in the short term, which seems to be the way our western, corporate world is structured these days. :(

[camel_landy]

and the problem ran through a couple of successive owners more recently too.
Let's say that they've all had their pros & cons... :angel:


It seems it's all based around looking good for the share market (and therefore institutional investors) in the short term, which seems to be the way our western, corporate world is structured these days. :(
Don't forget that Land Rover is a company and to exist, they have to make money! With the World economy the way it is at the moment, tough decisions need to be made and I'm sure that some of them need to be short term ones.

M

[camel_landy]

camel_landy, if you want some feedback for LR. I'm not sure if I would by anther.
No, I'm not after feedback. Anything I say here is me just being, well... Me! I don't mean that to be harsh but outside of my work, I'm just another enthusiast... If you see what I mean.

As for worrying about heading into the bush... Don't. Just learn a little about electronics and how it all works. OK, I've got a background in electronics & IT but what is going on under the hood is still very simple. If you get a problem, it is usually caused by the computer not being able to get the information it needs and that's where you need the combination of mechanical engineering & electronics to solve it.

Lets face it, when traveling, most people take a laptop these days for their photos, etc... All you need do is get a set of cables and ECU diags software and you're most of the way there. :)

M

[c.h.i.e.f]

Quality control is a problem also LR have good ideas as mentioned previously (disc brakes and coil sprung) but LR don't seem to continue with there "thinking" they sit there and dwell on the one good idea they had years ago....If I had the chance I would only use my landrovers for weekend adventures as Rick said a trip to town for some can be hundreds of K's or the good old "just down the road" (100k's) is not uncommon...

[c.h.i.e.f]

Having said this we all own landrovers though :D

[uninformed]

No, I'm not after feedback. Anything I say here is me just being, well... Me! I don't mean that to be harsh but outside of my work, I'm just another enthusiast... If you see what I mean.

As for worrying about heading into the bush... Don't. Just learn a little about electronics and how it all works. OK, I've got a background in electronics & IT but what is going on under the hood is still very simple. If you get a problem, it is usually caused by the computer not being able to get the information it needs and that's where you need the combination of mechanical engineering & electronics to solve it.

Lets face it, when traveling, most people take a laptop these days for their photos, etc... All you need do is get a set of cables and ECU diags software and you're most of the way there. :)

M


Diagonostics is one thing, field repair another...

[c.h.i.e.f]

Diagonostics is one thing, field repair another...

Haha yep :BigThumb:

[newhue]

Camel_Landy, I didn't really think you would be after some feedback, just hoped you were somehow related to LR. You've done well getting a bit of stick here defending the home office.

Diagnostics....if only. I colour in houses for a living, working out what was wrong with my landy I'd have no hope, and in the middle of the farm or the desert, never in 100 years. As mentioned before it took LR 6 weeks, and thats with emails all over the world I was told as well. In the end they started just replacing anything that could be related to the issue. Chuck a big enough net over it and most likely will get the problem.

I guess I am in a long list of LR owners, love their car but frustrated by the weird doings of Land Rover. To me they could take the 4x4 world by storm with some basic but quality modifications, even like the 3.2 5cyl. But I have no idea about the working of a big company. I just know if I would by another one or not.

[djam1]

Diagonostics is one thing, field repair another...

Give me an example of what you couldn't repair once you knew the problem.
Broken Crank maybe but if you carry spare sensors and an ECU the vehicle is no different than a non computerized vehicle.
I say this at least from the perspective of a TD5 and probably a Puma Defender.
Not so sure about D3 and later though.

[rick130]

[snip]

You've done well getting a bit of stick here defending the home office.


[snip]

He's alright, he's one of us ;)

[uninformed]

Give me an example of what you couldn't repair once you knew the problem.
Broken Crank maybe but if you carry spare sensors and an ECU the vehicle is no different than a non computerized vehicle.
I say this at least from the perspective of a TD5 and probably a Puma Defender.
Not so sure about D3 and later though.

Im not familiar with all the electronics and wiring in the new defender, so not actually sure of all the potential fault points.....but going off my 98 TDi, that has had its fair share of electrical problems (all silly things like bad earths, bad design ie no relay in headlights melting switch and undersize wiring) it is this sort of real world end product that I have little faith in LR ability to deliver a reliable vehicle...main roads are one thing, but dirt roads play havoic on delecate componatry.

It also seems that the fact all the components are "talking" to each other can lead to some random shut downs because of some silly little gremlin

I have never had my defender not work because the key fob suffered static problems or the imobiliser was on the same frequency as an automatic door.......

K.I.S.S

I do realise that these days the engines are required to have comp involvement to get the power, emissions and economy we love. And while mating this to sensors in gearboxes and axles etc make it even better. For this type of vehicle the engine should really be stand alone.

It wont take much to set off an air bag in the bush, think roo or bad luck driving a greasy track....if that means vehicle is shut down until reset by dealer than means no bloody good.

[c.h.i.e.f]

i agree with uninformed's statements...
when running correctly i do believe my 2010 defender is a much nicer car to drive long distances than my 1986 county BUT when the inevitable happens and it will because its a landrover i MAY be able to locate the problem but if it is something to do with the engine management system i highly doubt anyone can do anything hundereds of K's from help...LR in my opinion need to take more care! if nissan and toyota can make things strong i cant see why LR cannot..i would pay extra for extra

[jakeslouw]

Africa is converting to Jap where once the Series LR reigned supreme.

Ditto Australia.

So LR's sales strategy (if one can call it a strategy) is based on a shrinking Euro market which wants smaller and smaller diesel engines and smaller and smaller carbon footprints?

But then LR sell a range of "lifestyle" vehicles that cannot, to be frank, be used in Africa?

Here are my suggestions for LR's DC project team:

- keep the F&R live axle
- keep the coil springs (air suspension can be an OPTION)
- keep the ladder chassis
- change the body production to a more automated layout (larger pressed panels, less rivets, less panels, less alignment issues, and then either aluminium OR steel, NOT both)
- but retain the modular approach to still allow various back ends: 110 PU, 110 HCPU, 110 SW, 110 HT, 90 SW, 90 PU, 90 HT
- provide petrol AND diesel options, both entry/commercial (2.2 or 2.0 Ford Durotorq, maybe a 2.4 EFI petrol) and high end (TDV6/8 and petrol V6)
- better interior layout: elbow room, seat arrangement, legroom, etc etc)
- airbags, SRS etc to open up more markets

Failure to do this will mean that the Defender will come to an abrupt end and the icon will be dead.

[goingbush]

Unfortunatly it seems The future of the Defender as we know & Love will either be DIY retrofits or else may be in the hands of botique companies like ICON.

old 4x4's live on

ICON (http://icon4x4.com)

FJ | Gallery | FJ-44 | ICON (http://icon4x4.com/overview/fj/gallery/by-model/fj44)





.

[jakeslouw]

Alas I think you are right. We are seeing the passing of an era. The death of a giant.

[camel_landy]

Diagonostics is one thing, field repair another...
Errr... Yeah... Fault finding is part of the repair process. You've now got a computer that tells you exactly where the problem is!!

As I said before, you just need to learn a different set of skills & have some additional tools in your tool box. The ECUs are not a black art and nothing to be scared of. ;)

M

[camel_landy]

Camel_Landy, I didn't really think you would be after some feedback, just hoped you were somehow related to LR.
I am but I keep my work & pleasure separate...


You've done well getting a bit of stick here defending the home office.
:D

No probs, I just get a bit ticked off when people start having a pop at things when they don't know or don't want to listen to the whole story. The reality of the situation is that LR are a company that has to make money to survive. Tough decisions have been made in the past and you can't please all the people all of the time.

M

[camel_landy]

Alas I think you are right. We are seeing the passing of an era. The death of a giant.
You know what, I think that's similar to what the purists said when the Defender was launched and they phased out the leafers... :p

M

[jakeslouw]

You know what, I think that's similar to what the purists said when the Defender was launched and they phased out the leafers... :p

M

Yeah I suppose. But the leafers are still quality kit. I'm going to start buying up Defenders and pre-defender coiler chassis and bodies because if the Series is any indication, people will soon pay silly money for a good example.

As long as the new defender can hold a candle to the current model, I suppose it won't be too bad.
But if they go full-on independent suspension with gizmos......:mad: