Starter problems.

[PeterH]

I tried to start my 2001 HSE 4.6 yesterday, there was a clunk like the solenoid was engaging, but it would not turn over.
After several attempts it did start normally, but fearing a dying alternator or battery I drove straight to my auto electrician.
They were kind enough to come straight out and check the battery/ alternator which are both fine, and suspected the starter motor.
Same problems again today, engaging but not turning, but will start after several attempts.
My question is, how hard is it to remove the starter on a P38?
I got under and had a look, I can see the bottom allen key bolt, I'm guessing there is another one hidden on top.
Any tips to help removal of the starter would be most appreciated.
Thanks.

[mechanic2you]

PeterH

You are correct in assuming the position of the top bolt which turns out to be the problem child so to speak
Access to the top bolt consists of a long extension bar in half inch drive that extends past the engine mount and the biggest breaker bar you can fit in there, they are always extremely tight but with the right amount of elbow grease you will be the victor.
Regards
Peter

[PeterH]

Thanks Peter. I seem to recall reading something about removing the drivers front wheel and the plastic inner guard to improve access.

[p38driver]

Peter look here , http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/140537-p38-starter-motor-replacement.html?highlight=starter+motor

[PeterH]

Thanks P38 driver, I did try to search for posts on starters, I never seem to have any luck with searches on this forum, I always get a lot of irrelevant results for some reason.

[PeterH]

Starter done!
I decided to get a new OEM one from my supplier and got under the car today.
It was fairly straight forward to do, although that top bolt was a bit tricky.
I did not need to remove the road wheel or inner guard lining to get the job done.
It is held on with two 8mm hex (allen key) bolts.
The bottom one is much easier to get at, if you do this job, start with the bottom bolt first.
I could not undo the electical connections in situ, so I started with the two mounting bolts.
I used a 4" extension on my 1/2 inch drive socket ratchet, which is just long enough to get past the length of the starter motor.
The top bolt is the harderst part, you can get the 4" extension over the top of the starter, the top bolt is directly above the gap between the solenoid and the starter body.
I found I could slide my left hand in between the inner plastic lining and over the chassis, to gain partial acces to the top bolt to help guide the hex key into place.
Once you have the hex key engaged with the bolt, it does take a bit of force to get it started, but it will undo if you get the right angle of force.
Once the bolts were out, I could lowwer the starter out and disconnect the electical connections. (Of course the battery was disconnected prior to starting work).
The new starter had the main big positive pole, and two smaller clip on electrical connections, however my original starter had only one small connector.
Once I had the new starter in, I could not get it to work.
I found swapping the small connector to the top connector on the new starter solved the problem, now it works a treat!
It's a bit of a greasy job under there, be prepared for a lot of arm/hand cleaning afterwards.
You could probably do it in an hour all going well.
Hope this helps someone.
Cheers, PeterH.

[BusinessConnected]

What a nightmare... :)

I've finished mine today.. The Top Bolt was well and truly stuck... I also had a nice buildup of grease which prevented me getting good "purchase" inside the Hex Socket of the Bolt.

In any event some degreaser and a Larger 1/2 Ratchet got me going....
I ended up using the "Rave" Method with a couple of Extensions towards the Oil Filter. I have a Z9 Oil Filter fitted at the moment which made the job a bit harder (Less Clearance as it's longer)...

However it's done... took me about 2-2.5 hours all up, but I'll be able to do the Starter in the other P38 (when required) in about an hour or so next time...

My Car had Heat Shields etc fitted and I did it all without removing wheels/wheel guards etc as well...

[PeterH]

Glad you got it out, it's certainly not the most comfortable or clean job you can do on a Rangie! The only way I could get it with the shorter extension was to squeeze my hand up through the gap between the plastic inner guard and the chassis.
After all my efforts, the new starter stopped working.
It appears the gear that engages with the flywheel has come off the starter.
I'm hoping it's not a crack or teeth missing on the flywheel.

[p38fan]

had the same problem when I first bought my rangy. Changed the starter and found teeth missing on the flywheel. I was shattered. Got over it and got to work taking out the gearbox.
Just a small piece of advice, don't even think about this without very tall jack stands and a gearbox mount attachment for your trolley jack. Also you will need at least 4 6" extensions for your half inch driver to access the 4 bolts at the top of the Bell housing through the gear shifter hole. Also a dentist's mirror.
Save up all your patients for this Job.
Also you will need some mates to help lift what has to be the biggest, heaviest gearbox in history.
Ow yeah talk wrench a must.

[p38fan]

That last line was supposed to say torque wrench is a must.

[PeterH]

Thanks for the tips P38fan, that job might be a bit tough on my own, sounds like the auto is a heavy beast to move.
I'm hoping the flywheel does not have teeth missing, but that would explain the starter motor failures.
Might have to handball that job to the mechanic if that is the case.
I've always done my own maintenance on my Rangies, it is currently at the mechanics for the first time ever to sort out a few issues including the starter, which they have replaced.
Will be interesting to hear the outcome when I get it back later this week.

[p38fan]

Only way to tell is take out th starter and get under with a light while someone very strong turns the enging over with a big breaker bar.
Only reason I did mine myself is to save money. Also had the misses telling me I can't do it 'just give it to a macanic' she said.
Nothing motivates me more than proving her wrong.

[PeterH]

Yes it's pretty satisfying fixing it yourself, plus mechanics tend to get a bit pricey!
Sadly there are some jobs that need special equipment....$$$$!

[PeterH]

There's a bit more to this story!
The new starter I installed began doing the same thing as the last one, not turning the engine every time, clunking until it eventually just stopped working.
I was stranded, forced to get it towed to the mechanics.
They took the new starter off to find the gear that engages with the flywheeel had actually broken off.
They inspected the flywheel and it looked fine, no teeth missing, just normal wear, which was a relief.
They installed a second hand starter and it was all good again...for 2 days...then guess what? The same thing happened again, began not turning the engine and clunking.
I spoke to my trusted parts supplier and he suggested swapping the green ignition relay with another green one in the fuse box to see if that was the problem.
As it turns out, the green relays are interchangeable with green, yellow with yellow.
I did that and hey presto! It starts perfectly every time now.
I noticed the top of the green relay that was causing the problem was a bit discoloured on top, a bit brown looking, which apparently indicates it has been hot.
So I've ordered a new green relay, hopefully that's the end of my starter problems.
Hope this helps someone experencing weird starter issues, check the relay!
Cheers, Pete.

[parasnoop67]

Hi Peter, I have just been through a bit of the same starter trouble but with a different fix. Mine has always used a little bit of water, and lately I had been having the reluctance to turn over trouble after standing overnight or sometimes just a few hours. I think water was finding its way into a cylinder and getting hydrauliced causing it to not want to turn over. Ran a bottle of Seal Up through the radiator, carefully following the instructions, fixed. Starts easily now.

[PeterH]

parasnoop67 you are spot on, I did exactly the same thing and it is now running better than it has in a while, super smooth, heaps of power.
After quite a bit of research, I found a product called Liquid Intellegence 245, which has excellent reviews, plus it's Australian made.
Followed the directions to the letter and it's been perfect ever since.
My guess is a pinhole leak in the head gasket was allowing coolant to run into the cylinder causing the hard starts and rough running.
I thought it would be at least worth a shot...glad I did!
The new starter motor actually broke under the load. I have a different one in now and all good.
As a side effect it also stopped my heater core leaking.
Cheers, Pete.

[parasnoop67]

Glad to hear you got yours fixed Pete. It was reading your posts about the broken ends off the starter motor that made me think about the motot being locked up. Not a totally recommended fix I spose but we will see.
Cheers John

[poleonpom]

parasnoop67 you are spot on, I did exactly the same thing and it is now running better than it has in a while, super smooth, heaps of power.
After quite a bit of research, I found a product called Liquid Intellegence 245, which has excellent reviews, plus it's Australian made.
Followed the directions to the letter and it's been perfect ever since.
My guess is a pinhole leak in the head gasket was allowing coolant to run into the cylinder causing the hard starts and rough running.
I thought it would be at least worth a shot...glad I did!
The new starter motor actually broke under the load. I have a different one in now and all good.
As a side effect it also stopped my heater core leaking.
Cheers, Pete.

be interested to hear how you go with this product

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