Hot Puma

[santorini110]

hey, does anyone know why, my '09 110, gets so hot inside? when driving with the window open, the heat coming from the seat box is incredible....

The rear of the seat box heats up even with the windows closed...

Is this normal?

Antoher thing is a warning to all those puma owners out there. Your clutch slave cylinder is INSIDE the bell housing, so if it leaks, out comes the gear box!! There is a plastic bleed nipple on the top of the bell housing on the passenger side, it has a rubber dust cover over it and is not easy to find unless you know where to look and what to look for. Just in case anyone is caught without clutch fluid in the middle of now where as I was.

[Drover]

Yeah, it's normal.

If you want to improve it here is what I did.

1/ lined the underneath the floor, seat box and transmission tunnel with a heat protective mat. See link.

Car Turbo Exhaust Muffler Insulation Heat Shield Mat | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Car-Turbo-Exhaust-Muffler-Insulation-Heat-Shield-Mat-/230635396677?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35b2f0de45#ht_2002wt_802)

2/ Wrapped the engine pipe from below the turbo to the join at the centre pipe with a ceramic heat wrap.

Now it is very good stays nice and cool. Well worth doing makes it a lot nicer to be in during summer.

[Symo]

D'day Drover
I have been thinking of doing something along those linesfor ages but not sure the best way forward. I have a mulgo centre box and theheat was so bad that one day towing a camper uphill that my UHF main box thatwas mounted in the mulgo centre cubby fried… Could have grilled steak on it.
Super Crap has some aluminium looking sheets of rippledmetal (looks like the stuff behind the turbo) for sale at about $50 a sheet.And you need to make up some mounting hardware / standoffs. It would becomplicated.
This adhesive stuff looks ok but I wonder how long term itis - the bottom of my car is pretty dirty and muddy in spots (must look for afew deep rivers to cross to give it a good clean) . I give it a blast underthere at carlovers every time I wash it but don’t get under on my back to giveit an upclose spray. So I would need to make sure its clean enough for good adhesion– maybe alcohol wipe it ( that means getunder the car with some JD and a straw, drink alcohol while I wipe it :p) . I fearthat once a corner lifts the next river crossing - bog hole etc will rip it all off.
Also, at 110 x 99cm how much did you need?
Do you have Pics????

Thanks in Advance

[Drover]

Wait for a nice day, drag yourself under there with some hot soapy water and a sponge, then wash wash wash. Thats the only way I came up with. Some of the areas are tight and hard to get to but achievable.

I only used 1 sheet and that was all I needed. Target areas around the exhaust pipe and gear box. It has been on for 2 year now, that includes a Cape York trip. It is all still there and still doing its job. Some of the edges are a little lifted but its not going anywhere.

When you go over the gear box, I feed it over with one edge of the backing slightly peeled off, once it was in place I peeled the rest off. Be carefull you don't cover air-con drain, like I did and then wonder where the water was coming from on the passengers floor.

The ceramic wrap on the engine pipe gives the greater benifit of the two, but together the difference is terrific.

[Drover]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/192.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/193.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/10/194.jpg

[Symo]

Thanks for the pics Drover.

Thats the plan then - wait for a warm day and get under there and into it. You say the exhast lagging made the biggest impact.... hmmm shall get me some of that stuff too

Thats one of the summer jobs along with a few other tinkerings i have planned.

Cheers :)

[Michael2]

I found on my last road trip that with the windows shut the A/C tried it's best to cool the car.

BUT, as soon as the windows opened, then hot air started to be sucked through the seat box - some kind of venturi effect I'm guessing.

Shut the windows again, and the stream of air from the seat box stopped.

I've since invested in the Exmoor / Wright matting.

[Quigley]

Hi Santorini 110,
When I finally got to check the clutch fluid level in my master cylinder I found it was very black and down by about three quarters of an inch. The difficulty of getting to the cap under the wiring harness kept putting me off looking. I topped it up and went looking for the slave cylinder only to find that all I could locate was a bleed screw as you have described. I check regularly now and have not had the level go down and so stopped the quest for the missing slave cylinder. Your statement that it is in fact inside the housing was what I suspected and feared. Wow.
Out of interest I note you are from Cairns. I was in Cairns in May of 2009 and made the mistake of walking past Trinity Landrover. They had two new Defenders and were so great to deal with that I purchased my white one from them and they transported it down to me in Gympie and it arrived on 2nd June,2009. They continue to follow up with me more than three years later. and they and the car have been just great. Did you also purchase from them? My car number is 776888 and if so. yours may well be a close relation.

[Tomo]

Yeah, it's normal.

If you want to improve it here is what I did.


2/ Wrapped the engine pipe from below the turbo to the join at the centre pipe with a ceramic heat wrap.

Now it is very good stays nice and cool. Well worth doing makes it a lot nicer to be in during summer.

Hi Drover
Where did you get the ceramic wrap from?
I used the stuff below in the link, however the heat reduction very minimal....
I installed a decat pipe and centre muffler removal straight thru pipe and wrapped all the way to the end of the straight thru section
I might not have overlapped it enough......
I have not lined the panels from underneath yet......

Magma Wrap --- Thermal Velocity Australia | Hi-Performance Exhaust Wraps and Heat Shields (http://www.thermalvelocity.com.au/Exhaust-Wraps-/Magma-Wrap--/p-105-408/)

[Drover]

Hey Tomo,

Not sure what brand but it was a "ceramic weave" tape. I picked it up at the local auto spares place. Probably about 2 - 3 mm thick. Cost about $70

I over lapped it by half each wind , so effectively it is two layers.

Cheers

[Dockstrada]

I just bought both cat and center mufler eliminator pipes , I also bought

1 roll of this .

WHITE EXHAUST HEAT WRAP CERAMIC FIBRE 30M Long X 50mm Wide + 10 X S/Steel Zip | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/WHITE-EXHAUST-HEAT-WRAP-CERAMIC-FIBRE-30M-Long-X-50mm-Wide-10-X-S-Steel-Zip-/170930985530?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27cc47da3a)

and 2 rolls of this as I was not sure how much i nedded .

Car Turbo Exhaust Muffler Insulation Heat Shield Mat | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Car-Turbo-Exhaust-Muffler-Insulation-Heat-Shield-Mat-/230635396677?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35b2f0de45)

Thanks Drover for the links :BigThumb:

[Drover]

1 roll of this .

WHITE EXHAUST HEAT WRAP CERAMIC FIBRE 30M Long X 50mm Wide + 10 X S/Steel Zip | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/WHITE-EXHAUST-HEAT-WRAP-CERAMIC-FIBRE-30M-Long-X-50mm-Wide-10-X-S-Steel-Zip-/170930985530?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27cc47da3a)


Yep, that's the stuff.

When you wrap it, overlap each layer by half to get a double thickness.

You will enjoy the difference you are about achieve.

[Dockstrada]

Fitted the de-cat pipe and center mufler eliminator today , you can feel the extra get up and go , I think its due to the turbo being able to spin up faster .Not much louder either .



Hey Drover what did you do with the turbo heat shield, did you re fit it ?
Did you re install the bracket that was bolted to the engine supporting the original Cat ?

If you have any pics can you post them up.

[santorini110]

Hey Quigley,

mate glad to here they looked after you up here...

my Truck came from Brisbane via car dealer in Byron Bay, then up to me...the lengths we got to hey...

I hear Trinity no longer has a specific land rover machanic, they have a lot of other car brands at the dealership now...

my car had been serviced 10days before we went up the Creb Trak and half way along the Bloomfield track when we ran out of clutch fluid. Not impressed. Anyway got home Thanks to the Land Rover club of Cairns we were passing at the time. They were a fantastic help. Would you expect anything else from land rover owners??

[Drover]

Fitted the de-cat pipe and center mufler eliminator today , you can feel the extra get up and go , I think its due to the turbo being able to spin up faster .Not much louder either .



Hey Drover what did you do with the turbo heat shield, did you re fit it ?
Did you re install the bracket that was bolted to the engine supporting the original Cat ?

If you have any pics can you post them up.


Hey Dock,

Yeah I used all of factory heat shields.

Folded up some brackets out of aluinimum. One wrapes around the decat pipe and bolt clamp like, it acts as a brace and the second bracket, fastening to the hole closest to the inner guard, on the heat shield.

The second brace, shaped like a "s" sort of, bolts to the engine block, in one of spare threaded holes, and travel up to heat shield, turning around it covering the other two bolt holes and meeting the first bracket in the hole closest to the inner guard.

If you can make sense of that, we'll done.

Cheers

I took a couple of photo's but they are no help.

[chook73]

Hey Drover was there a reason that you went with the ceramic wrap rather than the glass or titanium?

[Drover]

That is what they had at the local auto parts store and the spec's read well.

Now it's on, it works very very well. Better that glass or titanium - don't know.

[Dockstrada]

That is what they had at the local auto parts store and the spec's read well.

Now it's on, it works very very well. Better that glass or titanium - don't know.

I can say that since I have fitted the ceramic wrap , it’s made a huge difference to the cabin temp , I only wrapped the De-cat pipe but it worked so well I’m now going to finish of the center muffler removal pipe. I also bought some exhaust heat shield which I will fit on the first chance I have.

Note to self, that stuff is itchy ............... use long sleeve shirt and gloves .

[Drover]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Note to self, that stuff is itchy ............... use long sleeve shirt and gloves ]

True that.....

[digger]

So you blokes should do a pictorial step by step on this as I'm sure
a lot of people (me included) would like to see that so they can do theirs!
(most of its in this thread, now step by step photos and taaa daaa! done!:D

[Dockstrada]

So you blokes should do a pictorial step by step on this as I'm sure
a lot of people (me included) would like to see that so they can do theirs!
(most of its in this thread, now step by step photos and taaa daaa! done!:D


Digger, its piece of Psss mates, I have no pics but here we go.

Remove heat shield from around turbo.

Spray some WD40 on the exhaust bolts and turbo bolts.

Unbolt support bracket between cat and engine block.

Remove front prop shaft, I only unbolted the diff side and swung it across , sitting it on the sway bar .

Remove cross member, “Note “ keep eyes shut, I had heaps of mud and sand in mine :mad:

Unbolt exhaust flange at muffler side, leaving 1 bolt for support.

Remove the bolt from exhaust and turbo side, just let the exhaust rest down on the chassis.

From underneath the truck remove the last support bolt left previously in bottom exhaust flange.

Jiggle the cat out between chassis and engine block.

Wrap new pipe and do it all in reverse “note” make sure you have long sleeves and gloves for this job , If you don’t you’ll know why later.

Not including the wrapping which took me ½ hour the R and R took just on 1 hour on my own , No stands no nothing just a floor crawler trolley and a milk crate to stand on while working in the engine bay .

I did support the cat pipe so i could achieve a tight and even wrapp.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/1032.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/1033.jpg

[Drover]

Oh, they start so nice and clean and white and.......

[Tomo]

Hi Dockstrada,
So under the bulge is a vibration/expansion join?
If so shouldn't that be left unwrapped?

[Dockstrada]

Hi Dockstrada,
So under the bulge is a vibration/expansion join?
If so shouldn't that be left unwrapped?

If there was lots of flex yes but for the minimal vibration and movement in that area and taking into account that the next fixing point is rubber mounted down by the bottom flange over 1mtr away the exhaust sort of shares the flex over the full length so I thought I would pot luck it, hence the 2 straps used, If all fails ill just trim it.

I expect it will be ok.

It certainly makes a huge difference for heat transfer.

[labrado]

Many thanks, Drover.

I've wrapped the 1st half of the exhaust pipe(from turbo to muffler) using the wrap mentioned in this thread, waiting for summer heat to experience the difference. :p

Question, do I have to wrap the rest of the pipe?

BTW, the wrap is not itchy but tingling to me:(

[Drover]

Hi Labrado,

The flex as Dock has described is not an issue, but abnormal flex possibly caused by pressure on the remainder of the pipe could cause excessive flex and result in the need to trim.

For this reason I wrapped mine in 3 segments. Turbo to flex joint, flex joint alone, flex joint to remaining pipe..

I think that the engine pipe is sffecient given the cost of the ceramic wrap, but if temps are up on rear floor go for it.....

[pannawonica]

The rear floor on my 110 Puma does indeed get quite hot!:(

[POD]

Amazing how little has changed- I remember leaving a set of Stanley screwdrivers under the passenger seat in my series 3 shorty about 26 years ago, the handles all melted!
The bloke I've just bought my 130 from has covered part of the floor in fancy insulating sheet stuff, looks like attacking the heat at the source as in this thread should be far more effective.

[Brid]

Removal of the cat downpipe may not be as straight forward on some Defenders, especially when the kms get up a bit. Mine has over 200,000 km, and the down pipe studs did not drop free of the turbo outlet flange...about 15mm short.

Using a suitable piece of hardwood, I had to jack under the TH engine mount until the studs cleared the turbo flange...gently! Feeling the moment to not jack to far. It was not enough to jack under the transmission flange. Needed to
tilt it a little.

Hope that makes it easier for the next person. Caused me a bit of a problem, and thought I should have been moved to a slower group for a while there.

[MD5]

I'm also interested in wrapping the decat pipe of my Puma.

The pipe is now installed, do you think is possible to do a decent wrap without remove it again ?
About the ceramic wrap, I see that there are two kind of products. The standard ceramic wrap and some high performance but expensive product.
Is the standard type heat resistance enough for the Puma engine exhaust gas temperature ?

Thanks for any advice!

[Brid]

MD5
Did you notice any heat reduction at all with the decat pipe without insulation?

[Tomo]

Hi,
I installed a decat pipe only and had no reduction in heat transferring to seatbox area.

[MD5]

I agree with Tomo, no noticeable reduction in heat transferring to seatbox area.

[Brid]

Thanks fellas
I'm just back from my regular quick 2000km round trip to Central Qld with the decat pipe fitted. I found that the heat build up was a little less (I could actually hold my finger on the LH front seat rail bolt for as long as I like. Normally a few seconds only after 3-4 hrs continuous driving.)

Certainly will be following others and wrap the pipe, as it's not enough on its own.

[MD5]

I currently have the decat pipe without the heat shield around the turbo. I want install it again but how to fix the bottom of the shield ? The decat pipe come with no bracket or fixing point for the heat shield.

Could you please post some photo of your fixing solution ?

[Tombie]

If you have someone who does ceramic coating this will last a lot longer.

The problem with the wrap is it can cause the pipe to rust quicker when it gets a bit of moisture in there.

[Allan]

I currently have the decat pipe without the heat shield around the turbo. I want install it again but how to fix the bottom of the shield ? The decat pipe come with no bracket or fixing point for the heat shield.

Could you please post some photo of your fixing solution ?

I think just drilled and or fitted a large U clamp when I did mine. I dont have the Puma any longer so can't help with a photo. Drover made up a mounting point for his, he may have a photo

Allan

[MD5]

Thanks for the U-Clamp advice, I will fit one of it.

About the wrapping, I read somewhere that it's better to paint it with high temp spray products to allow more weather resistance and lifetime.