Dual Battery Size

[Witchdoctor]

I'm looking to fit a duel battery to my 90, i have a 120ah Fullriver from my last 4x4 but its to large to fit under the passengers seat.
A 100ah Lithium will fit with a little re-aranging of that part of the battery box

My question is what size in ah are members running?

At this stage i will only be running a 60lt fridge. We have the main fridge in the camper so the 60lt is only back up. I would also in time be looking at a winch for the truck.

In put would be much appreciated.

Cheers
David

[MTB]

Running the stock battery, which I belief is 90 AH, plus a 90 AH Full River AGM.
That still leaves enough room to install a Ctek D250S and a Ctek Multi 7000 under the seat.

[Benz]

you can fit 2 x n70 sized batts under the seat.

you have to rotate them 90 degrees so they run across the car (if that makes sense)

[ugu80]

Duel batteries; thems fightin' words.

[Witchdoctor]

Thanks guys,

I have got a good price on the 100ah Lithium so i will get it & do some battery box adjusting to get it all to work. The Lithium is smaller than the N70 so should work well.

Cheers
David

[Yorkshire_Jon]

I have an Odyssey PC1700 and a 130Ah sealed unit (can't remember make but length and width are same as Ofyssey and about 15mm taller.

I also have room for an Albriet winch solenoid, a few relays, aux fuse box and aux earth bar.

Needless to say there's not much spare room in there and I need to make a new battery cage, but it all fits and works a treat!

Sent using Forum Runner

[Sue]

I have an Odyssey PC1700 and a 130Ah sealed unit (can't remember make but length and width are same as Ofyssey and about 15mm taller.

I also have room for an Albriet winch solenoid, a few relays, aux fuse box and aux earth bar.

Needless to say there's not much spare room in there and I need to make a new battery cage, but it all fits and works a treat!

Sent using Forum Runner

Have you got a pic by any chance as I am also in the process of fitting a dual battery system.. (I love this forum!).. :)

[Benz]

Thanks guys,

I have got a good price on the 100ah Lithium so i will get it & do some battery box adjusting to get it all to work. The Lithium is smaller than the N70 so should work well.

Cheers
David

what's a good price on a lithium?
sorry just curious

also the good thing about n70's is they are as common as *** holes...

[Witchdoctor]

Benz
We are going to bring one in & test it first.

The price is around $500 without freight & only weighs 12Kg :eek:, my Fullriver weighs 36Kg & i have 3 of them.

I will update as we progress.

Sue nice article on your beast, looking forward to seeing it all setup!

Cheers
David

[Benz]

Benz
We are going to bring one in & test it first.

The price is around $500 without freight & only weighs 12Kg :eek:, my Fullriver weighs 36Kg & i have 3 of them.

I will update as we progress.

Sue nice article on your beast, looking forward to seeing it all setup!

Cheers
David

wow that's quite a weight saving!

yeah I have 2 x 130Ah agm N70 sized batts to run my fridges.
never thought to put them on a set of scales but they are crazy heavy!
much heavier then any battery I have picked up before.

they work very well though :D

[Sue]

Benz
We are going to bring one in & test it first.

The price is around $500 without freight & only weighs 12Kg :eek:, my Fullriver weighs 36Kg & i have 3 of them.

I will update as we progress.

Sue nice article on your beast, looking forward to seeing it all setup!

Cheers
David

I don't suppose you have a link for this battery by any chance?.. I am presuming you already know it fits under the seat? Or are you looking at installing it elsewhere?.. :)

[Drover]

Hey Sue,

I sent these guy's an email for price and availability for the 100ah and 130ah.

Haven't heard back yet.

EV Power - Australian Electric Vehicle Specialists — EV Power - Australian Electric Vehicles sells Electric Bikes and car conversions, Electric Bicycles, Electric Vehicles, Conversion Kits. (http://www.evpower.com.au/-Sky-Energy-Batteries-.html)

Cheers

[Dockstrada]

This gives an idea of cost .
EV Works Pty Ltd (http://www.evworks.com.au/index.php?category=5)

[Witchdoctor]

Now i know that you can fit 2 N70 in the battery area under the driver seat i will be getting a couple for my needs, one in the truck with 3 in the camper or more if i can fit them.

We deal with a number of electrical factories in China, had no need for their batteries.
As weight is starting to be a problem & room, i thought i was time too look at the options & Lithium looks the goods.

Time to get some & test.

The size of these batteries are smaller than the Fullriver 120ah. We are looking at 50ah, 100ah & 160ah, even the 160 is smaller & only weighs 15Kg.
This may help some, but its just what i'm looking for for my problems.

Cheers
David

[DEFENDERZOOK]

hey guys.....if you move the electrickery from under the drivers seat to up higher.....under the centre console......

you can also use the drivers side seat box for more space......

someone on here sells a special box designed for this......and the console just bolts on top.....it raises it up a couple of inches and makes it more comfortable as an arm rest......
and you can drive through deeper water without the fear of drowning the ecu....

[DEFENDERZOOK]

couldnt remember the name before....so i kept refreshing the page till i saw his ad.....

its mulgo pty ltd.......

and heres the link to the box......its called an ex box......

Ex-Box - Mulgo Pty Ltd - Australia (http://www.mulgo.com.au/p13_Mulgo-Ex-Box.html)

[drivesafe]

Hi Witchdoctor and be very careful with adding a lithium battery to your set up.

The brand and company you are looking at have a good name in the lithium field but a fully charged lead acid battery has a fully charged voltage of 12.7v, but a lithium battery has a fully charged voltage level of 13.2v.

These two different voltage levels can pose problems, particularly as most standard type isolators are set to cut out when the voltage drops to somewhere around 12.7-12.9v, and lithiums sit at a constant 13.2 until they are nearly flat.

[Witchdoctor]

Thanks drivesafe, these lithium batteries come with a built in BMS to maximise the batteries performance.
So an isolator will not be required, very impressive.

Cheers
David

[Babs]

Hi guys,

The only thing I know about electricity is if I stick my finger in it I'm cooked.

But I bought some time ack a mini booster, the guy told me it could run a fridge for 2-3 days.. It's small compact, you don't need any solenoid thingies and that other thingy, you just plug into cigaret lighter to charge..

I figured you could have two of these for the price of a dual battery set up, but I could be wrong because I know ack about hs subject..

So here is a link, note- my one I bought is slightly bigger than this model but not by much. Can a tech head have a look at this and give us the Pro's & Con's on this as apposed to a dual battery set up. Cheers.

Super Mini Booster Vehicle Gear - Super Mini Booster - Portable Emergency Power Pack @ ExplorOz Shop (http://www.exploroz.com/Shop/Super_Mini_Booster+Super_Mini_Booster_-_Portable_Emergency_Power_Pack.aspx)

[Sue]

Hi guys,

The only thing I know about electricity is if I stick my finger in it I'm cooked.

But I bought some time ack a mini booster, the guy told me it could run a fridge for 2-3 days.. It's small compact, you don't need any solenoid thingies and that other thingy, you just plug into cigaret lighter to charge..

I figured you could have two of these for the price of a dual battery set up, but I could be wrong because I know ack about hs subject..

So here is a link, note- my one I bought is slightly bigger than this model but not by much. Can a tech head have a look at this and give us the Pro's & Con's on this as apposed to a dual battery set up. Cheers.

Super Mini Booster Vehicle Gear - Super Mini Booster - Portable Emergency Power Pack @ ExplorOz Shop (http://www.exploroz.com/Shop/Super_Mini_Booster+Super_Mini_Booster_-_Portable_Emergency_Power_Pack.aspx)

Our fridge is 40 litres and uses about 4 amps per hour.. that Mini booster thingy is only 14 amp hr.. now where near enough power to run anything like a fridge for more than a couple of hours..

Most batteries.. especially lead acid batteries may be 14 ah but you will only get 7-8 ah out of it before the voltage drops too low.. you will never get 100% capacity out of a lead acid battery.. and if you did that would be then end of the battery.. :)

[drivesafe]

Hi David and the BMS is only for the battery it is attached to and does not work as an isolator.

The problem is as I posted earlier, because lithium batteries have a settled voltage of 13.2v constant and lead acid batteries have a maximum settled voltage of 12.7v, you MUST separate lithium batteries from any lead acid batteries as soon as the motor stops.

This in itself creates an additional problem in that conventional isolators are set to cut-in at 13.2v and cut-out at 12.5 to 12.7v. So they keep all the batteries connected connected

This again means your lithium battery will be continually charging your lead acid battery(s) until the lithium battery goes flat.

At this point, the lithium battery’s BMS will take over and protect the lithium battery from being over discharged.

But you still continually end up with a flat lithium battery, which makes it a total waste of time.

There is a lot of work and development needed before lithium batteries become truly RV friendly.


Hi Babs and if you are considering buying two of those battery packs, try this math.

One of my dual battery kits with the USI-160 isolator will give you a dual battery set up with emergency jump start built in.

Plus the Defender version of this kit is $195, including postage.

Next, if you get an Optima D34 - a 55Ah automotive grade AGM, from Michael at T/4, an another sponsor on AULRO, for around $275 delivered to your door.

You would have a fully automated dual battery set up including a 45Ah of auxiliary power for $470.

Add in to this Ah the additional power gain because of the way my isolators operate and you have around 90Ah of useable accessories power for that $470.

Your two battery pack set up will give you just 28Ah of auxiliary battery capacity and still needs manual connection for emergency jump starts, all for $550.

Just some food for thought!

[Babs]

Thanks Sue & Drivesafe, I told you I knew nothing about electrical.. I won't be buying anymore boosters..

I'll ask more questions for myself when I'm ready. Cheers.

[Witchdoctor]

Drivesafe,
To get the lithium to work is
1* use a lithium starting battery as well as a lithium duel.
2* run a dedicated power cable from the alternator directly to the lithium back up battery & not have the lead-acid in that system, only to start the truck.

Correct me please!

David

[DeanoH]

Once upon a time, before electronic, processor controlled, whiz bang battery isolaters/charge controllers etc. were invented all that was needed was a simple solenoid (high current electrical switch, like an automotive relay but able to carry higher current) to connect batterys together.

The solenoid was operated by +12 volt from either the ignition circuit or the accessory circuit so once the ignition key was in the off position the batterys were isolated from each other.

A variation to this setup uses a feed (to operate the solenoid) from the back of the alternator instead which ensures that the batterys couldn't be coupled together unless the engine was running. Pretty handy if the key was left on without the engine running, eg. turned on to acc. so the vehicles radio/stereo system could be used which otherwise could have caused both batterys to be flattened.

This is the system used in my OKA for coupling its two batterys and it works very effectively. I'll be using the same system in my Tdi Defender as one of it's attractions (for me) is its total lack of 'electronickery'. :)One of my 'prerequisites' though is to use two batterys of the same construction type and size as I'm not a fan of mixing battery types and it gives me a like spare should the main battery fail.

Deano :)

[drivesafe]

Hi Dave and Deano and at this stage, because most of the lithium battery set ups I have been involved with developing something for, have been where the cranking battery was a lead acid and it was lithium auxiliary battery(s), set them up is pretty well straightforward, but it has been a learning curve.

With older vehicles, fitting a Lithium cranking battery is not a problem but fitting one to a new vehicle may have some interesting effects on the vehicles BMS.

[Witchdoctor]

From what i have been reading, use a DC battery charger that is powered by the starting battery to charge the lithium duel.
All this set up is getting rather expensive :eek:.
I'm going to put my old Fullriver & Redarc isolator in the 90 for now, just do not have the time to play around with the lithium option until the new year.

Thanks for all the help.

Cheers
David

[drivesafe]

From what i have been reading, use a DC battery charger that is powered by the starting battery to charge the lithium duel.
All this set up is getting rather expensive :eek:.

Yep, so far the best set up I have tested is an inverter/battery charger configuration.

To accomplish this is an expensive retro fit set up, but the cost of the batteries pretty well demands a safe system to protect them.

The big advantage of using the inverter/battery charger set up is that while on the road, the system charges off the alternator but unlike DC/DC device, where once the motor is off they become a waste of space, whereas with the inverter/battery charger set up, as soon as you are near mains power, unplug the charger from the inverter, connect the charger to mains power and you can truly fully charge the batteries properly.

The other advantage is that with Lithium batteries being able to safely supply high currents for long periods, you can effectively use the inverter while camping away from mains power, giving you a 3 way use for this type of set up.

There is only one battery charger available that can charge any form of lead acid batteries but also is designed to properly charge lithium batteries.

Using the same battery charger, this same set up is also idea for camper trailer or caravan use, allowing the charging the house batteries and powering a 3 way fridge at the same time while on the road and because these chargers keep the house batteries and the 3 way fridge separated at all times, when you stop and turn the motor off, the house batteries and the 3 way fridge are still isolated from one another.

Again while this type of set up is initially expensive to retro fit, but if you are starting from scratch, it is actually much cheap to set up than it is to use a DC/DC device and offers much greater usage.

I have been developing a system that will enable up to 60 amp chargers to be used while on the road, which means it will easily cater for even the largest bank of house batteries ( lead acid or lithium ) yet it will operate from supply voltages as low as 11.0v at the camper trailer or caravan, which in turn, completely negates the problems caused by low operating voltage vehicles, like new Toyotas and Nissans, and can still improve the charging ability of new Land rovers as well.