Holden Motor Question

[Series3 GT]

Hi all, I was wondering about the 253 V8 into a Series Landy. I've heard of a few being put in and for a V8 they don't have a huge amount of grunt and I know the series box wouldn't like it a huge amount if you hammer it constantly but it's just a farm ute so it won't be under any huge acceleration but the 6 cyl holden is quite common and the 202 if tuned would probably have the same figures as a stock 253 so it may hold up if driven nicely. Any ideas would be great.

[agrojnr]

Its proberly on the same power as the rover v8 but with more torque

Adam

[Series3 GT]

It probably is the same power as the 3.5 but the torque as you mentioned is the difference, how hard is it to get an adapter plate to make the series box to attach to the 253. I've heard of a few but they were a while ago. The 253 is similar to the Ford 250 motor for size power and torque probably but you can't beat the sound of a V8. The 250 would be my next choice and then the 202 not including all the valiant motors.

[gromit]

Just checked out Marks 4WD Adaptors and Dellow Automotive websites and not much in the way of Series adaptors (probably not enough demand now).

Dellow still list Holden 6, Ford 6 and Toyota B diesel.
http://dellowconversions.com.au/images/DellowAutomotive.pdf

They were helpful when I approached them about my C240 Isuzu conversion they made back in the 80's. Contact them and see if they made an adaptor and whether they still have any in stock. They claim 95% of replacement parts for their kits (since 1964) are available.

History here with an mention of Land Rover conversions. Dellow Conversions (http://dellowconversions.com.au/about.html)


Colin

[Series3 GT]

Thanks for that gromit, I'm thinking that it would be easier just to put a 202 in it cause I know where to get adapters for it but a 253 or even a 3.5 would be great but they aren't easy to fit from what I've seen. A 250 would be good as well but again it's not a V8. My 2.25 is starting to smoke every time I start it know and it's using a little oil so it probably hasn't got long and it would probably be cheaper to drop another motor in it.

[agrojnr]

3.5 is an easy mod check out some of the uk web sites

Adam

[Series3 GT]

3.5 is an easy mod check out some of the uk web sites

Adam
I like the 3.5 V8 cause I have one in my 100" but I don't know if it would be easier to fit a 3.5 or a 253. They both have the same sort of figures and an old 3.5 or 253 probably don't have a huge amount of grunt anymore and I've heard that a Series IIA box can handle up to 120HP at the max and I don't think a stock 253 had that out the factory. The main problem is finding an adapter plate thats cheap enough to make the conversion worth it cause I don't really want to spend $400 on a plate and then another $200 on an engine. I've only seen a few 3.5 kits on the net but they're about $700.

[Series3 GT]

If anyone has any info on fitting a 3.5 V8 to a IIA please let me know, the only problem with a V8 is the gearbox, an old Rover V8 wouldn't have much grunt and I wouldn't be upgrading it for anymore power just make it run well if I went through with it. A 202 and a 3.5 would probably be similar.

[Series3 GT]

Finally decided that if I'm going to do a engine swap its going to be a Rover V8 or a Ford 250.

[bee utey]

Probably a bit far away from you but there was a complete crossflow motor and Nissan box on ebay, no bidders:

landrover ford crossflow nissan gearbox | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/landrover-ford-crossflow-nissan-gearbox-/150967525348?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item23265d9fe4)

[Series3 GT]

Not a bad setup, I was thinking about going with the Series box and driving it nicely but my other idea was go for a toploader with the series t/case or what ever manual gearbox that came with the other falcons. I think that the series box should hold up as long as i don't dump the clutch at 3000RPM or try to spin the rear wheels and do serious circle work.

[thomson71]

I have done lots of engine swaps on the early series.
My opinion and its only my opinion is as follows.

215 hemi........great motor, getting harder to find.

245 hemi........awesome torque and power, runs cooler than holden motors.

265 hemi........only time i fitted one of these we broke the gearbox and put
a later series 3 gearbox and salsbury diff.


ford 250 crossflow.......very smooth motor and quiet.....did not like the electrics on it as was hard to work on.

253/308.......Put one in a series 3 and had heaps of probs. the heads fowled the bulkhead, startermotor too close to chassis, had to lift engine up to clear prop shaft, no room for headers, better off with a chevy as they were 70 degree blocks.

[Series3 GT]

I would be looking more towards the carby version of the 250 motors even pre cross flow but I'm certainly not against crossflows just the electronics are a pain. The 245 would be great but not easy to find anymore. How did you make or find the conversion plates. Not too keen on the Holdens they don't have the right torque range all the torque is too high in the rev range. The 3.5 V8 is great but they require too much cutting of the bulkhead to fit.

[bee utey]

Why are the electronic dissies on crossflow Falcons a pain? I use plenty of the relevant Bosch ignition modules to make Land Rovers more reliable.:D

They are much better than points, easy to change and last about 150,000km.

[thomson71]

the 253 we made our own, used the land rover pressure plate and holden clutch plate. the others we used dellow, the ford cross flow dizzy is a ***** of a position to get to to work on thats all. the 215 hemi with 2 barrel carb and electronic ignition is my favourite. I may be able to find a hemi if your wanting to go down that road,
on another note...tjwa used to have a 225 slant in one of his landy's.

[Series3 GT]

The dizzy on the 250 crossflow is in the worst spot you could put one. Nothing against electronic ignition just the location of it on these engines. As for the Hemi, I'd certainly like one but it'd be hard to find an engine in my price range. And in my range to pick one up. The 250 is my first choice at the moment just cause of availability and price, you can buy a running motor for $100 just finding the conversion plate is the problem. But certainly won't dismiss the mighty Valiant Hemi if you've got an adaptor and I can find a motor.

[marko66]

Hi All

Guys i have heard that you cant cool a falcon 250 of any variety until au over 4000 revs in a falcon or anything else. This is coming from others and not from personal experience really

Regards Mark

[schuy1]

Hi All

Guys i have heard that you cant cool a falcon 250 of any variety until au over 4000 revs in a falcon or anything else. This is coming from others and not from personal experience really

Regards Mark

Speaking from experiance , I and my brother have both owned a variety of Falcons, both pre and X-flow , in all sorts of configs, The old man had a 3.6L '70 model motor in a G60 Patrol and we never had any probs off cooling at any revs . The falcon motors were the preferred option for our mud trails vechiles, as they ran cooler than holden 6s and were able to withstand overheating better than others. So if you have a good radiator there will be no dramas.

Cheers Scott

[g2landyman]

Hi to throw some thing else into the ring How about a 289/302 winsor and C4 auto? A company called Seton engineering made adapter kit C4 to s111 transfer case, but not sure if still going.
I made my own adapter about 15 years ago, it was great but fords are little fuel hungy. No I cannot make again (dont have machining equip anymore).
If you want Holden 6 adapter assy (Just pay freight) email me g2landyman@yahoo.com.au they go good with a holden 6.

[Series3 GT]

I don't really want an auto I want to stick with a manual. If i coud find a Ford gearbox cheap enough and find an adaptor for the series t/case that be my other option. I would love a 302 or 289 but they cost a lot more than a 250 motor. How hard is it to make an adaptor for the t/case? Thanks for the offer on the holden adaptor but I'm mainly after a Ford motor over the Holden. I won't dismiss the Holden yet though.

[Series3 GT]

Well I just priced the ford 250 motor and they wanted $500 for one with high kays and only wanted $100 for a 186 and they'd remove it. How much would it cost to freight that conversion plate over, I can get a proper steel conversion plate for $60 from a wrecker so I'm looking more towards the holden cause I can't afford that now. Next question is 186 or 202? this could go out of control.

[mick88]

The Holden 186 and 202 have the same size bores but the 202 has a quarter inch longer stroke, so it has a bit more torque, but pretty well the same HP/KW.
The 186 has always been regarded as one of the best Holden donks.
The 202 is probally a better choice for a Land Rover conversion but I think the fuel useage is a bit higher. There are guys on here that have had both and will be able to say what is a better choice.
I have a 179 bored to a 186 in my Series 3 shorty and I am happy with it.


Cheers, Mick.

[Series3 GT]

Thanks Mick, I'm probably going to get a 186 because I know where I can get one for $100 and I found a conversion plate for $60 and I'll try and get him to throw in the mounts, What clutch should I use? I was thinking of using the landy flywheel and clutch if i can because the Landy flywheel is heavier by about 4Kg. Can I get a 202 crankshaft and put it in the 186 to make it a 202 just for that extra torque? I just want to make sure that the Holden motor will be an upgrade not a downgrade I'm fairly certain it'll be better though.

[Phil H]

we had a 186 in a series 2A. went very well.
Personal choice would be a 186 over a 202. The 202's are prone to throwing a leg out of bed when they get tired or over revved. I have seen more than 1 with direct access to the internals :D
However, I have never popped a 202 in a road car, only speedway cars so obviously at the extreme end of engine capability.
186's handle revs better than a 202.
202's have more torque although in saying that the 186 pulled the 2A as well as we wanted it too. That was many years ago though and my memory could be a bit cloudy.
The way to stop a RED motor 202 coming apart is to fit a set of BLUE motor 202 rods or starfire rods (that gutless 4cyl 1.9 opel motor often referred to as the backfire).
Just my 2 bobs worth. Enjoy the challenge.

[Jeff]

I think due to the age of both 186 and 202s, the difference would be between individual engine condition, as they would have all have had different treatment. Many people rubbish 202s and say 186s are way better, but in my experience, the 202 was better as mine was much newer.

I had a 253 with an adaptor to a 2A gearbox about twenty years ago, it may still be in the garage, I sold the motor to someone to put in an HQ ute and he gave back the adaptor. I can't remember if I sold it. I abandoned the idea of a 253 as it required a lot more work, cutting the firewall, etc, as well as other requirements for rego. A friend had a Series 3 with a 253 and it was quite an impressive thing, but he eventually converted it to diesel. The 253 was rated at 185 bhp, so even accounting for wear, it should be more than 120.

Jeff

:rocket:

[Jeff]

Cooling problems with the Ford six could be related to the small radiator in a Series Land Rover, not so in a Nissan. The ways of fixing it is either push the rad panel forward and fit 'wide lights' and a deluxe bonnet, fit a flush front and Defender bonnet then fit a Commodore radiator, or a bigger sump or oil cooler. My 202 was just cool enough, however I always planned to improve it with an oil cooler or sump mods, just it wasn't really needed, just would have been better. I didn't want to lose the 'narrow light' look.

Jeff

:rocket:

[marko66]

Hi All

Series3gt why not rebuild the four cylinder land rover motor the parts are as cheap as chips from the uk

And any holden is a substantial upgrade to a land rover as the motors are a later generation - higher compression etc, you may not have the stump pulling torque at idle but you will have a lot more power and torque overall.

I have just bought the parts to do my four cylinder up and the rings were about 6 dollars gaskets about 25 dollars and it keeps it stock

Regards Mark

[mick88]

Thanks Mick, I'm probably going to get a 186 because I know where I can get one for $100 and I found a conversion plate for $60 and I'll try and get him to throw in the mounts, What clutch should I use? I was thinking of using the landy flywheel and clutch if i can because the Landy flywheel is heavier by about 4Kg. Can I get a 202 crankshaft and put it in the 186 to make it a 202 just for that extra torque? I just want to make sure that the Holden motor will be an upgrade not a downgrade I'm fairly certain it'll be better though.

As far as I know all the standard conversions use the Holden flywheel with a Land Rover clutch assembly. You need the Holden flywheel so that the ring gear corresponds with the Holden starter motor. I did have Series 3 with a Holden 173 and a very crude home made conversion that utilised the Land Rover flywheel and starter motor. It was fantastic to drive and just pulled away from low revs so easily, but it wasn't a pretty conversion to look at. Obviously it done the job though, as it had been in the vehicle for a long time and had a Qld Dept Tansport approval plate on it.

I am not sure about if a 202 cranshaft will fit into a 186 without any work done on it. The drag racing guys do it but they grind the cranks down to fit the smaller 186 mains so they rev harder and fit 202 pistons which are shorter and won't hit the head. There is also a Falcon six crank that can be ground down and modified to fit Holden six for improved high performance.
Someone else on here with an engine rebuilding background will have more idea than me!

Cheers, Mick.

[Series3 GT]

I'm going to get a 186 cause I can't find any 202's. I'm going to keep the 2.25 in the shed just in case I'm unhappy with the 186 but I'd like to try and fit the landy flywheel but as you said mick I might not be a pretty conversion but I would like to use that torque from the Holden down a bit lower but if I can't well then I can't. I'll clean out the old radiator and fit an electric fan to it so it stays nice and cool. I was going to put a 253 in it but they cost to much to buy and run for not a huge amount of power and I'd have to butcher the bulkhead too much. I think I'll go for the conversion so wish me luck.

[Disco44]

I had a 186S (192) in my Ser3. It got hot as it revved its guts out with 4.7.1 diffs.So I obtained a bigger radiator from Natrad and changed the diff centres to 4.1.1. I was contemplating 3.5.1 but chose 4.1.1 as I thought that was a better comprise.It ran like a beauty.I don't know if those diff centes are still available.As for adapters they were everywhere in those days and came with an engineers certificate to pass roardworthy (in Qld anyway)
John.

[Series3 GT]

I quite like the low gearing in the diffs cause It gives me the ability to crawl really slow over some quite rough terrain. I'll certainly do some work with the radiator (maybe get a bigger one) and fit the thermo fan that runs full time so she doesn't get hot at all.

[mick88]

I quite like the low gearing in the diffs cause It gives me the ability to crawl really slow over some quite rough terrain. I'll certainly do some work with the radiator (maybe get a bigger one) and fit the thermo fan that runs full time so she doesn't get hot at all.


Put a thermo switch on the thermo fan and fit an override switch so you can turn it on if you have a need.
Not much point running the fan when it's not necessary!
Also fit the fan over the hot spot of the radiator.


Cheers. Mick.

[Series3 GT]

I will, probably get a thermo switch from the wreckers and fit it to my fan that I've already got. How difficult is it to get one of those gauges that check the allignment of the gearbox?

[Homestar]

A dial indicator and magnetic base is what your after for the alignment check. You could borrow mine, but you are a bit far away.:). Maybe a member that is closer has one to loan, or you can get cheap versions of each on flea bay easily.

[Jeff]

The Dellow kits that used to be common in NSW in the 80s used a Holden clutch and and an alloy adaptor plate. The Roy Sim kit that I got later used a Land Rover clutch and a steel adaptor.

Jeff

:rocket:

[Series3 GT]

Thanks everyone for your input, I'm not going to do this at the moment cause I'm too busy on my other Landy, but when I'm less caught up with that, I'll go for it. I'll let the 2.25 live out for a bit longer then I'll get around to do it but I'll do it eventually. Now I know what to do and how to do it, it should be a breeze.

[clubagreenie]

Things to note:

1. Check the algnment of the face of the adaptor. They are notorious for not being square and so stuffing input bearings/shafts.
2. Radiator. The std radiator can be used or even enlarged to an extra row, at the sane time have the outlets moved to suit the holden better. Can't remember the hoses we used to use but the top is just a 90deg, both are off the shelf. It needs to be moved forwards, to do this the front crossmember needs to be cut and changed. When looking down on it from the front cut across half way back, on the back face cut at the same level as the existing lower level of the radiator. Then flip this cut out and refit into the hole it left, and weld back in. It's just as strong (9 conversions I did never went anywhere) and looks very neat for engineering.
3. The S3 box is ok, the earlier non synchro S2 box is better. Buiding a hybrid of the two better yet. Use the early case, and use some early bits, some late bits. The transfer is fine. Just use decent bearings and oil, if possible find an extended sump to run more oil (cooler running).
4. Extend the sunp of the engine as well. Same thing, cooler running of oil, there's room (forward by memory). Get a spare sump, cut the base off and add to other.
5. 3.54 Range rover diffs make the world of difference with the holden. drop the revs at speed (or cruise at 140).

[Series3 GT]

Well I just found a 202 and the bloke said I could have it for free but it needs a bit of work so I think I might grab it and give it a light rebuild (or full rebuild) and make sure its in good condition and give the 2.25 a bit longer and wait till it lets go.

[marc]

just bought a dial gauge from auto one on sunday $49.95 down from $63 the magnetic base was around $74 so will make a bracket that bolts on to the crank when i do mine as long as there is no flex shouldn't be a problem i hope.

[Series3 GT]

I'll definetly try and get one of those alignment gauges cause I don't want to replace the gearbox every few months. I'm hoping to pick up the motor next week and I'll put some pics up when I get it.

[g2landyman]

Hi what about picking up a cheap V8 disco and swapping eng g/box & transfer :D

[geodon]

I bought one of these to replace the steel adaptor that split & destroyed the GB.

Can't reccomend them more highly. I got a magnetic dial gauge, checked & it was about 2 thou out.

Cast iron adaptor. Hard to go wrong compared to the welded one it replaced.

Running it with a 186. It don't like high revs. I'm thinking of getting a sign on the tailgate: "2slow2bad"

[Series3 GT]

Hi what about picking up a cheap V8 disco and swapping eng g/box & transfer :D
I don't want to spend that much money on it, it's just a farm ute although I'd love a V8 petrol or diesel. I do love V8's but I've already got the V8 100" so that'll do me for now. The adaptor plate I was looking at is steel so thats a good start but not sure what make but I think it's a cast, I've only had a quick look at it and I've got no clue what to look for when it comes to adaptor plates.

[banjo]

I just put a holden 253 & nissan 5 speed in Harry.fits fine.just cant wait to get it all built & finished..

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-iii/117589-meet-harry-highback.html

Last couple of pages are of the V8 install

[Series3 GT]

That's a cool setup, I might do that eventually but I might look at a 302 or 308. Then again a 253 is certainly enough for a Series. Are you running standard axles/diffs? I love the idea of a Nissan box with a Series t/case cause the Nissan is strong and smooth and the Series t/case is srong and has very low gearing, perfect combo. 202 should keep me happy for now but in the future I'll probably look at the V8 again.

[Series3 GT]

Picked up the 202 today and looks pretty good for a freebie, Its complete with a inlet manifold (wide throat), exhaust manifold, carby (wide throat), harmonic balancer, the timing gear is a metal one, came with a starter motor, fan pulley, dizzy that needs fitting and it needs a water pump, fuel pump and I'll need to take the head of and see whats going on in there cause apparently it was using oil and would foul up the spark plugs. I've had a look at the plugs and No. 4 and 6 are a little dodgy at the moment. Will price a gasket kit, water pump and fuel pump and piston rings but it could be a little more at then I think depending whats on whats inside.

[Homestar]

When you get it apart, post a few pics of the bores and if you have the gear to accurately measure them, post the results. If it has a metal timing gear it sounds like it has had some work done to it at some stage - that could be a good or bad thing depending on how they did it. Check the pistons for any marks that may suggest it has been rebored before you order rings. They may have a mark like +020 for 20 thou over and +040 for 40 thou over.

Keep us posted - Gav.:)

[clubagreenie]

Some came with metal gears, sought after and oft spent an afternoon in the wreckers pulling timing covers checking.

[Homestar]

Some came with metal gears, sought after and oft spent an afternoon in the wreckers pulling timing covers checking.

Never knew that - thanks. Was there a particular model or engine that these were specific to?

Cheers - Gav

[clubagreenie]

Some of the 186S blocks. All the HP blocks (try finding one of those, mine are my retirement new rangie fund). anything thats had a replacement cam as some of the kits were supplied with new steel gears.

Rarer still are straigt cut gears, sound a treat for 5min then you'd willingly strip diwn and replace.

[Series3 GT]

Well pulled the head off the 202 and the bores are good enough to rebuild but shes got her problems. Piston No.3 is broken off completely just above the gudgeon pin. It needs rings all round (suprise, suprise) but it appears that its been bored out .080" (it says 080 on the pistons) which isn't a problem reliability wise but parts wise I can't find anything. They guy I got it off said that a lot of people at mechanic shops would buy lots of 80thou kits and when they rebuild an engine they'd bore it out to 80thou everytime. Its been played with cause its also got a Low Compression head and it should have High Compression but that doesn't matter cause it's going in a Landy. The metal timing gear is a helical cut gear not straight cut so that makes me happy. I don't want to spend a mountain of money on it though, so I'm after a second hand 80thou oversize piston and a full set of 80thou oversize rings and probably bottom end bearings to be on the safe side.

[clubagreenie]

80" is a big oversize. At the limit of what it'll do. If it needs boring or even a good hone I'd look for another donor block. At 100" you get random break through of the liners into parent block material. You can sleeve but finding sleeves these days might be like finding Unicorn man juice.

Try the following.

Russell Engineering PTY LTD
113 North Rocks Rd, NORTH ROCKS, 2151
NSW, AUSTRALIA
ph: +612 9630 2195
e : russellengineering@bigpond.com

A lot of references to having something to do with the 80thou pistons.

ACL make a "race" piston thats good for all use, Mahle make their pistons now and don't seem to care too much about Australian old stuff. Just cc the heads to make sure they match. There may not be rings available though but toyota 3F rings fit 60", may do 80" as well. Part no's as follows.

ACL Rings # PS1357-XXX XXX = size, std, 010, 020, 030, 040, 060, maybe080

Federal Mogul ring #E-654KC XX (size)
also big end # 6-3710CP-XX (size(under))

Precision Internal Rings. Note you'll need to machine the ACL grooves to suit. 0.004" from the top, 0.030" from the oil. Use a 1/16 cutter for the top groove, 3.6 for the oil.

Part No - RS3625ML6 - 065

Hastings chrome rings for a 3F toyota landcruiser engine in stock bore size will be a direct fit. Just need to file back.

Part number is RS1705CR6 - STD.

Std 3F bore size is 3.7008, +.060" 202/253 is 3.685", so they are for a .015" larger bore & gap down well.

ACL piston numbers
202 Red 6 6MKRY9096 ƒ Bowl
6MKRY9118 ƒ Flat Top

202 Blue/Black 6 6MKRY9096 ƒ Bowl
6MKRY9118 ƒ Flat Top

Having broken a rod, it's usual anyway, I'd be line boring the mains. Just a common practice for them but if it's been out of whack and shattered more so.

These guys on ebay have a lot of rings and stuff to suit, they say contact for sizes.
eBay My World - autopowerpartsonline (http://myworld.ebay.com.au/autopowerpartsonline/?_trksid=p4340.l2559)


NOTE: These might be a good buy. Not mine just found while looking.

ACL Duralite 202 pistons std bore with rings NEW $200 neg.
Holden 202 pistons std | Engine, Engine Parts & Transmission | Gumtree Australia Cardinia Area - Nar Nar Goon North (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/nar-nar-goon-north/engine-engine-parts-transmission/holden-202-pistons-std/1012826286)

ALSO high Vol JP oil pump. Good mod $60-
Holden 6cyl 202 - 161 RED MOTOR jp oil pump | Other Parts & Accessories | Gumtree Australia Caboolture Area - Sandstone Point (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/sandstone-point/other-parts-accessories/holden-6cyl-202-161-red-motor-jp-oil-pump/1012534907)


THESE are another option, can be spec'd in size to order. So if the bores are ok and you want to go +80"
Holden 202 6Cyl Piston & Rings Kit - Flat Top Pistons & Hastings Moly Rings | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Holden-202-6Cyl-Piston-Rings-Kit-Flat-Top-Pistons-Hastings-Moly-Rings-/260962630056?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc295b9a8#ht_1110wt_907)

They have a bunch of stuff for them as well. Just please don't use ACL or monotorque head gaskets.

Hope it helps. If you want to source another block let me know, I can probably scrounge something up and throw it together.

[Chris72]

I thought a 202 bored out to 60 thou was pushing the limit, at 80 those bores would be thin, if you can find a blue motor 3.3 from memory they had star fire con rods as well as a solid steel crank, electronic dizzy and 12 port head. I picked 1 up a couple of years back from a wreckers that was running for $250 and it was EFI so that included the ecu and electric fuel pump. you would think a carbie motor could be found for $200 or less. Try gumtree I've found there are a few bargains on there.

Cheers Chris

[Series3 GT]

Thanks for the replies, apparently you can bore them out to 120thou without hitting water but you need a sleeve for it. The bores are good enough to keep the block and it doesn't need boring out but a little honing just to remove the small lip thats probably just carbon cause the other pistons still fit and they had a lot of carbon. I can't afford sleeves or major work but another piston, rings, head gasket and maybe bottom end bearings is my limit. I'll try and get pics up soon. I can't even get a stuffed red motor for $250 let alone a blue motor. Are there any pistons that would fit from another car that are easier to find? if i could get a piston from another car that fits the 80thou oversize and thats standard size for the donor engine? I was thinking along the lines of a 3.8 V6 piston maybe something like that.

[clubagreenie]

What you really want is a black 202 with blue 202 rods. The black has a steel counter weighted crank and the blue rods were from XU1 stock. Black head is 12 port and has unleaded valve seats.

I think you'll really be pushing it uphill to find any 80" pistons. Last records I can find of stocks being readily available was back when HQ racing was in fashion.

[Series3 GT]

I can't afford a 202 black or blue let alone find one. I think I can find the right piston and rings cause apparently it was and still quite common for a mechanic shop to bore them out to the max and put the same kit through every motor to make it cheaper for them. Could I find a 60thou piston and add the 80thou rings cause you don't have to get bigger pistons when you get a 20thou bore out.

[clubagreenie]

I wouldn't make a habit of it. I've never heard of anyone running a std or next undersize piston in a +20" bore. It'd slap harder than a bar wench without a tip.

These engines are a dime a dozen here. Can be found for <4200- with full efi attached or around $100- bare.

[banjo]

That's a cool setup, I might do that eventually but I might look at a 302 or 308. Then again a 253 is certainly enough for a Series. Are you running standard axles/diffs? I love the idea of a Nissan box with a Series t/case cause the Nissan is strong and smooth and the Series t/case is srong and has very low gearing, perfect combo. 202 should keep me happy for now but in the future I'll probably look at the V8 again.

I have the standard front diff & salls rear..

My green one runs a BLUE 202.Whats yours if its the blue ditch the varajet carby they are very very tempremental..My 202 is bored 60tho has aftermarket cam & crank & rods.Stage 3 engine.The crank & cam are an old brand that they dont make now there JP from memery Or PJ Peter Jackson yeah thats it..I also run a holley 350.its all ballanced & the head was all done for unleaded & all ported.The blue & black engines are very tempremental blue more so.With all the vacumn crap on them they must be in perfect condition the slightest leak & you'll have trouble..The black engine was the first holden to get fuel injection & are a good engine & better if you take all the polution gear off..Also use an electric ignition there so much better..I had rebuilt the red 202 in my tray back aswell but now using the 253..When you go the V8 make sure you know what stud pattern the block is before buying 308s have a trimatic & a turbo bolt pattern.Some of the late 253s are the same..I'd say i'll endup doing the 253 up with bigger pistons crank ,Cam & rods..Also remember if you have ACL pistons you HAVE to use ACL rings cause if you use others there wont be enough back spacing & after runing for awhile it will just stop dead..I love holden V8s i used to build a lot of 355ci engines outa 308s.You can use Crysler cranks in a 308 aswell with the rod..:D..I just gave the rebuilt red 202 away to another member as i didnt need it now same with the rebuilt series 3 gearbox.dont need em now & taking up to much room...

[clubagreenie]

To get around the ring land sizes see my earlier post about opening up the grooves.

[Jeff]

I remember many years ago people would use pistons from either a 180B or 200B Datsun, I don't remember which, but they were about +0.060" and had the same pin dia & height. I don't know if they are still available, but someone on here should know. It may be in an older thread.

Also I believe the Black Motor was not originally made for unleaded, I thought it was replaced with the RB30 Ni**an motor rather than re engineer it to run ulp.

Jeff

:rocket:

[bee utey]

If you need just one piston try this mob:

JP Engineering Home Page (http://www.jp.com.au/)

They make pistons to order, in house.

If your piston broke I would inspect the bore extremely carefully for cracks first, though.

[Series3 GT]

I remember many years ago people would use pistons from either a 180B or 200B Datsun, I don't remember which, but they were about +0.060" and had the same pin dia & height. I don't know if they are still available, but someone on here should know. It may be in an older thread.
Also I believe the Black Motor was not originally made for unleaded, I thought it was replaced with the RB30 Ni**an motor rather than re engineer it to run ulp.

Jeff
:rocket:
So if I got a 20thou oversized datsun 180B or 200B would it fit the 80thou bores? I'll send an email to JP Engineering and see what they can do. If I can I'll try to avoid running 20thou too small pistons I don't really want to do that but If I can't find anything I may have to cause I don't want to leave it sitting there doing nothing. As for the Blue or Black motor there just isn't any around where I am that are for sale or under $500. I was quoted $500 for a Red 202 that was stuffed from one wrecker which I thought was a very rough deal. Me and a mate where thinking of getting a Series and either dropping a V8 in it or a 3.3 Turbo Diesel from a Patrol as a cheap farm and hunting vehicle so thanks for the info on the 253 with Nissan gear cause thats what we were thinking of doing.

[clubagreenie]

I've found references for 180/200's having either 85 or 89mm bores depending on engine. Anything with the correct bore and pin height will be suitable, as long as you have the crown matched as best as possible to the others (making sure there's enough material there to use).

If we can find a cheap option for an engine here at around $100- would that be an option?

[Homestar]

I was quoted $500 for a Red 202 that was stuffed from one wrecker which I thought was a very rough deal.

Geez, that is rough. It doesn't seem that long ago that you could pick up a decent runner for a slab of beer...

Pity you are so far away, I'm sure you could pick one up cheap over this side of town.

[Series3 GT]

Well I picked mine up for free which was good but it's got problems. I think I might have to get another block or something cause everyone I've contacted can't help me and the internet has nothing. I don't know what to do now cause that lip on the bores isn't carbon:( Do I find another 202 block and pistons to suit that block then transfer the crank, cam, head and other gear over or find something else and sell the motor in bits. Tough decision. I'll keep trying but it can't eat up too much money. The 180B and 200B aren't the right size and I couldn't find anything the right size. I spent $120 on fuel and stuff like that, I'm going to ask a few people on a few farms around here about what the have and see what I can find. There is a very very rusty 186 sitting in the front paddock but I don't think you can use 186 blocks with 202's.

[Chris72]

I think the 186 is a better block it was popular to bore them out to a 192 back in there day and they seemed to take a bit of abuse, if no water has made it's way into the 186 it would be worth a go as there getting hard to find around here, if you can get it for next to nothing would be worth it.

Cheers Chris

[clubagreenie]

The 186 is generally agreed to be a better unit. Still lots of bits available, ebay is your friend. Everything will fit, not sure of head though. By memory they all fit (173/186/202) but you may need to check the water/oil ports and maybe drill the head gasket to suit (and maybe a oil drain port or 2).

There's talk of compression differences but the chambers are the same volume between the three, earlier are smaller but there's too much difference in bore size so there's other issues with chamber shape and squish areas.

[Chris72]

Probably a bit far away from you but there was a complete crossflow motor and Nissan box on ebay, no bidders:

landrover ford crossflow nissan gearbox | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/landrover-ford-crossflow-nissan-gearbox-/150967525348?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item23265d9fe4)

I spoke to the owner and he said he'll take $300 with or without the motor not sure if that's a good deal as it's looks pretty weathered and the condition of the box and T case are unknown until they can be tested out.

Cheers Chris

[Series3 GT]

All is not lost, went to my local Repco and Auto 1 and they said the should be able to get me a singular piston .080 oversize and a ring set to suit, the piston is around $45 and rings around $120 and all six for $200. Auto 1 are going to give me a ring and let me know what they can do so I hope it all works out. I read you can't use a 186 block with 202 crank but not sure.

[MuckUte]

All is not lost, went to my local Repco and Auto 1 and they said the should be able to get me a singular piston .080 oversize and a ring set to suit, the piston is around $45 and rings around $120 and all six for $200. Auto 1 are going to give me a ring and let me know what they can do so I hope it all works out. I read you can't use a 186 block with 202 crank but not sure.

I would be checking the rest of the bores very closely with a block at 80 thou over, especially if there is a big lip at the top of the bore as you say. Spending money on a big over bored worn out engine may not be such a good idea

I just got gven a 179 engine that I pulled down to check only to find it's still a standard bore and in quite good condition, surely if you put some feelers out in holden forums, gumtree and localy something will turn up. You may even find buying a whole car, early commo or rusted out h series, torrie may provide a decent engine you might even then be able to hear running or even test drive the engine.

[Series3 GT]

I'm not going to spend big dollars if it's not worth it, still going to pull it right down and check the bores. I've got enough cars laying around already so I don't want anymore and the lip isn't that bad. I'll see what I can pick up a block for at the wreckers and decide whether I go any further. If it's not salvageable and another block costs too much I'll sell the good parts of and try to get my money back from what I paid in fuel to get it. If it turns out like that I'll look for another motor possibly Holden or maybe look at the Ford motors again but they cost a bit so probably the Holden motor still. I'm going to do a compression test on the 2.25 and see how it's going. Let you know whats happening.

[Chris72]

Here's a pick of the 186 that I removed from the series 1, these bores are pretty thin as you can see there's a piece missing, It also took the top off the piston.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g303/RCK-914/DSCF3374_zps3e1fe68b.jpg

[Series3 GT]

That is a serious hole in the cylinder wall! Unbelievbly I got an email from a bloke saying he's got a 202 Black with an auto box and he said he's willing to sell it for $50! I don't really want an auto but if he doesn't want it I'll take it a maybe sell of the auto and the good parts off the Red motor. He said it would need a rebuild but a fuel injected motor with electronic injection out of a VK Commodore isn't bad for $50. Auto 1 got back to me and they said they can get me a full set of pistons .080 oversize for $200 from Perth. I'm very interested in the Black motor but I don't know what they're like reliability wise and what they're like to work on so be interesting to look at as an option.

[Mocky]

PM Sent

Mocky

[Chris72]

That is a serious hole in the cylinder wall! Unbelievbly I got an email from a bloke saying he's got a 202 Black with an auto box and he said he's willing to sell it for $50! I don't really want an auto but if he doesn't want it I'll take it a maybe sell of the auto and the good parts off the Red motor. He said it would need a rebuild but a fuel injected motor with electronic injection out of a VK Commodore isn't bad for $50. Auto 1 got back to me and they said they can get me a full set of pistons .080 oversize for $200 from Perth. I'm very interested in the Black motor but I don't know what they're like reliability wise and what they're like to work on so be interesting to look at as an option.

Mate for $50 it's worth it you might even make a couple of $$ selling the trans, you can fit a carby manifold to the 12 port head and not worry about the EFI setup, being alot younger than the old red motor might also have better water jackets but I believe you would have to fit the vacuum hoses up to the charcoal canister because of emission laws (it may pay to check that out).
The old 186 block has seen better days, I'll remove all the good bits and scrap the block.

Cheers Chris

[clubagreenie]

BUY.

Steel crank. Use.
12 port head. Use.

Find set blue rods next and the piston and you're set.

Or just use the black engine with blue rods as the black are worse than reds.

[mick88]

All is not lost, went to my local Repco and Auto 1 and they said the should be able to get me a singular piston .080 oversize and a ring set to suit, the piston is around $45 and rings around $120 and all six for $200. Auto 1 are going to give me a ring and let me know what they can do so I hope it all works out. I read you can't use a 186 block with 202 crank but not sure.

I believe the drag racing guys put 202 cranks and pistons into 186 blocks.
They machine the journals down on the crank so that it fits the 186 block and apparently this combination is a far better engine for pulling revs.
The 202 pistons have to be used as they are shorter from the gudgeon up. Another option they do is use the falcon 3.6 lt (221ci) crank and machine the journals to fit etc. I was in a local machine shop recently picking up my Landy engine parts and one of the automotive machinist who is into drag racing showed me a modified Falcon crank he was setting up.

Cheers, Mick.

[Series3 GT]

I'm certainly leaning towards the Black 202 instead of the hassle of the busted red motor. I don't mind the EFI cause of not having to stuff around with carby settings, no need to play with emission control cause its not registered:D I got a kind offer from some one on the forum saying that they've got a Blue 202 that they know of and its $200 in not bad condition, and another forum member offered me an adapter to suit a Rover V8 which I'd like quite a bit, the only issue is gearbox strength, but everyone in the UK says they run a V8 with standard Landy gear and they flog the crap out of it without problems so I don't know if this is true or not.