Spare wheel in way of pintle for no 5 trailer

[gng1]

Hi there,
I'm looking for some advice about how to set up to tow our no 5 ex-military trailer.

Recently we got a new 7 seat silver defender 110 (2012) trading in the old 5 seat one(expanding family!). On the old defender the pintle hook was bolted to a hayman Reece style extension bar and the spare wheel was no problem because we had a front runner(?) swing-away style carrier which held the spare wheel up high and to the right hand side. It was fine but the trailer would have towed better if the pintle hook was higher up. There are actually holes on the bumper that would be a good fit but the hayman Reece installation per-dated our trailer purchase and I didn't want to remove it to bolt the pintle directly to the rear. I had thought on the new defender this is what I would do(which would also serve as a permanent recovery point), but it is clear that if I did that, the jaws would not be able to open because of the location of the spare wheel.

Getting a similar swing away wheel carrier is not an option because the folk riding in the third row seats need to be able to open the rear door from the inside. The spare wheel sits quite low (below the bottom of the barn door) and I don't know how best to set up to tow the trailer.

The options seem to be:
- bolt the hook to the bumper and remove the spare wheel every time we tow the trailer and put it elsewhere (not attractive)
- bolt the hook to the bumper and get a spare wheel carrier that opens with the rear door and hope the gap between the door and the wheel allows enough space to open and close the pintle jaws (not sure if wheel would be in way of draw bar at high departure angles?)
- just got the hayman Reece option again and maybe get a longer bar if available?

Many thanks for anyone who has any thoughts!

[Sth65pacific]

Is there a possibility of a photo? That will help everyone in the forum help solve the dilemma.:D

My thought is:
Have you considered welding a spare bracket on the front wall of the #5 to suit the Defender 110 stud pattern? That would remove the spare from the back of the vehicle. It may not sold your problem though.

Ian

[juddy]

The UK MOD Pumas, have a rear tyre fitted with Pintle hook... So they must be a part available..

[gng1]

Never posted a pic before! First time for everything. Hopefully this should illustrate that the pintle can't go where it should go with the wheel staying where it is! I have considered moving the wheel to the trailer but its not an ideal solution. One of the great things about the pintle connection is how quick it is to hook up and having to move the wheel detracts from this somewhat!

[juddy]

Theres a drop plate adaptor for this issue...

[gng1]

@juddy you mean like this pic from the web?

It seems this might have some disadvantages including:
- lower pintle point so trailer draw bar not level
- security? Looks like plate with pintle hook would detach with one pin so couldn't be left on
- reduced departure angle?

This doesn't seem much different from a hayman Reece type set up? I was thinking it would be good if there was a wheel carrier that opened with the door and can be opened from inside and could hold the wheel up and out of the way...

[isuzutoo-eh]

Just what you want, Rijidij swing away wheel carriers swing with the door and don't have any extra locking when the door is closed, so egress by the far back seat passengers won't be inhibited. The carrier also raises the spare a bit, at least relative to the door mount on my 110. So that might solve all your problems in one fell swoop.

[gng1]

Just what you want, Rijidij swing away wheel carriers swing with the door and don't have any extra locking when the door is closed, so egress by the far back seat passengers won't be inhibited. The carrier also raises the spare a bit, at least relative to the door mount on my 110. So that might solve all your problems in one fell swoop.

The Rijidij looked like it would be too low and had some sort of handle on the outside, but I may be wrong? I was looking at this pic on the Rijidiji website:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/100.jpg

[isuzutoo-eh]

The handle is to unlock it from the fully open position, so it may be a little harder to close the door but easy to get out from inside.
I have a poor-man's pintle that has a vertical pin through two holes, with the original spare wheel holder i couldn't remove the pin, with the Rijidij carrier I can remove the pin. Not sure how much difference but there is some!

[gng1]

Thanks isuzutoo-eh. Good to know about the handle. But I'm still unsure about the Rijidij fitting with a pintle hook if the pintle is bolted into the four holes designed for said purpose. This photo looks like the Rijidij carrier has something bolted into the top two holes?
http://http://rijidijoffroad.bounce.com.au/communities/3/004/008/944/023/images/4567146148.jpg (http://rijidijoffroad.bounce.com.au/communities/3/004/008/944/023/images/4567146148.jpg)
Wouldn't the horizontal bar prevent the pintle jaws opening in any event? I can't visualise what you are describing re "poor-man's pintle". Do you mean one that doesn't rotate? If so wouldn't it have the same trouble? perhaps yours is bolted lower down?

[isuzutoo-eh]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/93.jpg

This is from before fitting the swing away carrier. I did cut the top horizontal bar off the towbar mount to fit the carrier.

[Mick_Marsh]

You want one of these.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=54932&stc=1&d=1356865620

[gng1]

Thanks Mick. I have something similar but would need to get the receiver installed on the new Defender. It was however a bit low and for the no 5 it would be preferable to bolt the pintle hook to the top four holes on the bumper. I was also unsure whether I might still have problems with the low position of the spare wheel. I think I might have to just try and see. Alternatively I guess I could simply open the rear door every time I hitch or unhitch... Sound silly?

[jimr1]

:) Hi gng1, i've read your post, don't know if your fixed up yet. I Have a GRAEME COOPER. spare wheel carrier ,on ruby my 110, the rear door.It can be opend from the inside . Also it lifts the spare wheel well clear of the tow ball.When i first got it i thought it looked like a bit of old gate, now i think it is a very good design.I don't know if they have a web sight ,but there phone no is 02 9550 2689 .good luck jimr1 :)

[Wallaby Ted]

Hi,

On the County I had the Pintle hook fixed to the rear cross member and the only way i could open the jaws was to spin it, attach the trailer, lock it and spin it back upright.

Now with the Defender it came with a receiver, so i went and bought one of these and mounted the pintle hook on this:

Pintle Hook Mount | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pintle-Hook-Mount-/280791315570?pt=AU_product_Trailer_Parts&hash=item4160777472)

I just spun it around to lift the hook higher, and no trouble with the spare now. If you want a photo, I can put it on the back tomorrow and take one for you.

I did find them at Supercheap and one the 4wd shops at nearly double the price.

I have since bought a second hand receiver for the County, so I can move it between the 2 vehicles, all I have to do now is go and fit it.


Richard

[danske]

FYI , I have a no.5 and a puma and use a receiver in the standard tow bar set up and have no issues at all. Is there a reason why you won't consider instaling a tow bar so you can bolt the pinter hook to the receiver and also have a standard tow bar set up as well for other applications ?

[gng1]

:) Hi gng1, i've read your post, don't know if your fixed up yet. I Have a GRAEME COOPER. spare wheel carrier ,on ruby my 110, the rear door.It can be opend from the inside . Also it lifts the spare wheel well clear of the tow ball.When i first got it i thought it looked like a bit of old gate, now i think it is a very good design.I don't know if they have a web sight ,but there phone no is 02 9550 2689 .good luck jimr1 :)
Hi Jimr1,
Is your you're carrier like this one (from the Graeme Cooper website, but they seem to have two advertised...):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/401.jpg
If so it looks the go! But what is with the handle?!
Gavin.

[gng1]

FYI , I have a no.5 and a puma and use a receiver in the standard tow bar set up and have no issues at all. Is there a reason why you won't consider instaling a tow bar so you can bolt the pinter hook to the receiver and also have a standard tow bar set up as well for other applications ?

Thanks Wallaby Ted and danske,

My previous defender was a 2.4 puma and I used a pintle bolted to a receiver like the one linked in danske's message. But my spare wheel carrier put the spare well out of the way; I was unsure whether the spare wheel would be a problem with a similar pintle set up on a standard (hayman Reece style) tow bar set up. It is reassuring that it would not be a problem if I had the stand tow bar set up installed.

The reasons why I am investigating the options for bolting the pintle hook directly to the crossmember are threefold:
First, I felt the trailer would ride better if the hook was just that bit higher - with the pintle on the (inverted) receiver, the nose of the trailer was down a tad, that is, the draw bar was not level;
Second, I thought it hook could then operate as a permanently installed rear recovery point;
Third, I thought this would avoid reduction in departure angle caused by the addition of the standard tow bar kit.

Of course it is nice to be compatible with the rest of the world, and despite the third point above, I think an ideal option would be somehow to have both pintle hook permanently attached to the crossmember and a standard tow at receiver set up. I hadn't tried that on my previous puma because the tow set up predated the trailer purchase, and the towing set up encroached on the area is the crossmember required for a direct bolting of the hook to the crossmember. But perhaps a solution can be fabricated (just not by me!)...

Gavin

[alittlebitconcerned]

Hi Gavin. I'm wondering if you found a solution? I've just bought a no5 and want to achieve the same end that you were after.

[rijidij]

The standard wheel mount supplied with the Rijidij wheel carrier is now off set so the wheel is in a higher position. The one in the pic of the red Defender is the old type. This was changed because of tow bar clearance issues. So, tyre clearance isn't a problem, but there could be clearance issues with the pintle eye. If you can let me know how high above the top of the chassis the top of the pintle is in the open position, I'll let you know if it will clear or not.

Cheers, Murray

[bobslandies]

Hi Jimr1,
Is your you're carrier like this one (from the Graeme Cooper website, but they seem to have two advertised...):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/401.jpg
If so it looks the go! But what is with the handle?!
Gavin.

Hi Gavin,

The handle is to pull open the wheel carrier and keep your hand away from the likelihood of chopping off your fingers. The trigger on the handle catches into the extension with the hole visible beside the tyre to lock the door/carrier assembly open particularly on a side-slope. The handle is angled to the left to maintain clearance to the wheel as the carrier opens to the lock position.

Designed in 1970 in its earliest versions for Series vehicles;). Series ones have the tyre slightly further to the right.

Bob

[303gunner]

gng1, have you thought outside the square? The issue is not your Pintle, it's the trailer Lunette.

The pintle you are holding up to your rear crossmember is the original type fitted to the Aust Army's Series rovers. You'll note it has a locking latch and can rotate. This was because it was introduced in the period when the Army was still using No4 Trailers which had a fixed lunette (so the pintle had to rotate to allow articulation), and also the No5 Trailers which had a lunette which was designed to rotate (see the grease nipple on the lunette casting?), and therefore the pintle needed to be fixed.

In the 50 year period that the No5 Trailers have been in service, it was found preferable to have the lunettes fixed, so they were modified to no longer rotate. When the Perentie LRs were introduced into service, there was no longer a need for fixing the pintle, so the locking latch was omitted.

The Lunette on your trailer can be "de-modified" back to original so that the lunette once again rotates. By swivelling the Lunette vertically, and the pintle horizontally, you can hitch the trailer sideways into the hitch, rather than dropping it onto the hitch from above as normal. You have probably noticed already how well balanced the No5 trailer is with very light weight on the drawbar, allowing you to support the weight while swinging it into the hitch from the side. If you have loaded the trailer so that it is out of balance and you can't both support the weight and guide the lunette into the pintle, use the adjustable stand to set the lunette to the height of the pintle. One the lunette is in the pintle's jaws, close the upper jaw. Then, simply turn both the pintle and lunette to the correct orientation and close the locking latch, making sure to secure the latch with the pin.

Note that it is important that the pintle and lunette CANNOT BOTH rotate when driving (especially reversing) as they can bind up and lock, potentially rolling either the trailer or the car. At least one must be in the locked position.

[decibelcore]

Not trying to hijack this thread, but where can you buy a lunette to suit a no 5 trailer?

Cheers Decibelcore

[Mick_Marsh]

Not trying to hijack this thread, but where can you buy a lunette to suit a no 5 trailer?

Cheers Decibelcore
They are quite rare, for an unattached one.
Keep you eye on the usual markets, ebay, gumtree, etc.
Post an add in the wanted section.

Another thought, buy another trailer from the auctions, convert one to a 50mm hitch and sell it. Might be cheaper in the end.