Right is wrong

[wrinklearthur]

When one thinks they know it all, along comes something to trip them up. :oops2:

'Inc' wanted a shield for the back axle brake pipe, right hand side and so I dually located, removed, inspected and sent a example of required item.
What could be simpler?

Well, after a while Inc sent me the message, "it's for the wrong side"!!!! :mad:

I'll pause now and throw the question open to all of those who know.
Why is it that, right is wrong? :(

.

[clubagreenie]

He got it wrong?

[wrinklearthur]

He got it wrong?

No, we were both right, so how did Inc end up with the wrong one?
.

[123rover50]

What car was it for?
On an 80 the shield is in front.
86 on etc its on the back.

[wrinklearthur]

What car was it for? On an 80 the shield is in front. 86 on etc its on the back.

Thanks Keith

This forum is great, I didn't know about the forward placement of the shield on a 80" either.

The Land Rover in question belongs to Inc, and that is all I thought of at the time, I would have to go back and read that thread again to see if the model is mentioned.

I'll leave the answer for now, to give someone else a chance of addressing the question
.

[bobslandies]

What car was it for?
On an 80 the shield is in front.
86 on etc its on the back.

From:
Service Bulletin 5043, Date issued 23.2.49
Fracture of Rear Brake Pipe

Complaint: Complaint of Brake Failure or Fracture of a rear brake pipe at the point where it passes between the rear shock absorber and rear axle check strap.

Cause: Under normal circumstances the flexible check strap is slack; movement of the rear axle may allow the strap to chafe on the brake pipe, ultimately causing a fracture and consequent brake failure.

Remedy: Renew the rear brake pipe andfit a suitable shield betweeen the check strap and brake pipe on each side of the vehicle.

The Bulletin goes on to describe the introduction of the shields (free of charge) LH #232089, RH #232088 and also gives a dimensioned drawing so the shields "may be made locally"

"Vehicles produced in future will be equipped with shields on assembly. In addition, each brake pipe will be secured to the shield by means of a clip Part No. 56666, rubber bush Part No. 06860 and drive screw part No. 72626."

Bob

[incisor]

but whats the long and the short of it?

:angel:

such a learning curve..

makes the mundane very interesting..

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

when is the above lefthand or righthand ?

[clubagreenie]

Wouldn't it be relative to the orientation of the housing?

A RHR would be LHF.

[bobslandies]

clubagreenie snip - Wouldn't it be relative to the orientation of the housing? A RHR would be LHF.

Early vehicles had the brake pipes across the differential casing on the front side and later vehicles have the brake pipes on the rear of the differential casing. Series 2/3 IIRC have two of the clips with rubber bushings per side and they are bolted up with 2BA(?) bolts, nuts, spring washers.

Not to mention the way you bolt up the checkstraps - they are on the outer face of the chassis rail.

Bob

[wrinklearthur]

------- and fit a suitable shield between the check strap and brake pipe on each side of the vehicle.

Clue.
.

[123rover50]

but whats the long and the short of it?

:angel:

such a learning curve..

makes the mundane very interesting..

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=56637&stc=1&d=1360622265

when is the above lefthand or righthand ?

If its for the 80 thats a RHS but only if its got narrow springs. The C dimension. Otherwise its a LHS with wide springs.

[incisor]

If its for the 80 thats a RHS but only if its got narrow springs. The C dimension. Otherwise its a LHS with wide springs.

it is for my series 2 swb so C would be to suit the wide springs etc etc but.....

that doesn't help answer the puzzle at hand...

tho i am definitely learning stuff!

[123rover50]

Sorry Im a bit SLOw. Dont understant the problem:Rolling:

Never mind. I have had my glass of port I am off to bed.:angel:

[wrinklearthur]

Well ! After having you fellows scratching your hair all day and sometimes both of your hairs, I will relent and put you all out of your misery.

It's to do with the axle check straps and the position of the rear springs, the shields are reversed on a long wheel base because of the springs being out side of the chassis and the check straps are then inside the springs.
Inc as he said has a short wheel base 88" and the check straps are outside the springs.

I removed the right hand side shield as per instructions, from a long wheel base 109" axle housing!

You can go now and I'll let you rip your hair out ---- both of them. :D

[clubagreenie]

You realise we don't enjoy this. Right? Left? Wrong?

[wrinklearthur]

You realise we don't enjoy this. Right? Left? Wrong?

Sorry !! [bigsad]


Talking about left and right, I wonder how many DIY's have brought headlight inserts from say, eBay from overseas and ended up with lights biased towards the right on dip.

There must be other instances of the incorrect handed item ending up causing grief, Is there any other that people know of ?

.

[incisor]

on series 2 and later it seems that whats left on a lwb is right on a swb :p

[wrinklearthur]

on series 2 and later it seems that whats left on a lwb is right on a swb :p
Hi Inc

I won't say right, but I will say you are not wrong. :D

Trotted over to the collection yesterday and looked at the correct right hand shield that's on the left side, so it is the right one for you even if it is on the left of the donor LWB. :confused:

It's condition is about the same as the first right one, ---- sorry ! the incorrect shield I first sent up. :wasntme:

If your happy with the condition of the last one I sent, I can get this one under way for you.

.

[incisor]

If your happy with the condition of the last one I sent, I can get this one under way for you.

that is fine arthur. please include your bank details so i can do a dd for the postage etc etc

thanks muchly :p

[gromit]

Arthur,

I've just removed one from a Series III and fitted one from another Series III and the holes for the brake pipe clamps are in a different positions. So there seems to be right for right and right for left and also different hole positions.

The first one was on a SWB but it had a lot of LWB parts fitted (brakes etc.). There are 2 larger holes in the plate and two smaller holes on the same centreline for the brake pipe clamps. The other one was from a diesel SWB but the hole for the brake pipe clips were closer to the top of the plate.

So that I don't lose out on a future concourse prize, which is the correct one ?

Colin

[Blknight.aus]

its for both the left and the right side...

left side if you have the front mounted brake pipes
right side if you have the rear mounted pipes.

Mirror image it for the other side

[gromit]

its for both the left and the right side...

left side if you have the front mounted brake pipes
right side if you have the rear mounted pipes.

Mirror image it for the other side


Not quite with you....

The larger holes are spaced differently and the holes for the brake pipe clips are in a different position.

The one on top was fitted, the one now fitted came off another Series III SWB. Are you saying one is for LWB and the other for SWB ?


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/02/319.jpg



Colin

[wrinklearthur]

The larger holes are spaced differently and the holes for the brake pipe clips are in a different position.
The one on top was fitted, the one now fitted came off another Series III SWB. Are you saying one is for LWB and the other for SWB ?

Hi Colin

The 80" was installed in front of the housing and from the 86" onwards, behind the housing.

The left and right depends on the placement of the check straps.
On a long wheel base the check straps are between the chassis and the springs so the plates are reversed from left to right to as they would have been on a short wheel base.
The idea of those plates was to stop the check straps wearing into the brake lines, but the height of the holes where they are situated in respect of the centre line of the axle housing probably doesn't matter except for getting a matching pair, the 'P' saddles could be mounted facing down on the plate with the high hole and vicky verker for the low holes.
The larger holes may have been locating holes from when they were manufactured.
I must look at a S3 Salisbury diff housing and see if those plates are different to the ones on a 2A LWB rover style diff back end.
Coop will be back tomorrow so I will try and pinch a look at his series 3 Long wheel base 'Sandy'.
.

[gromit]

Hi Colin

The 80" was installed in front of the housing and from the 86" onwards, behind the housing.

The left and right depends on the placement of the check straps.
On a long wheel base the check straps are between the chassis and the springs so the plates are reversed from left to right to as they would have been on a short wheel base.
The idea of those plates was to stop the check straps wearing into the brake lines, but the height of the holes where they are situated in respect of the centre line of the axle housing probably doesn't matter except for getting a matching pair, the 'P' saddles could be mounted facing down on the plate with the high hole and vicky verker for the low holes.
The larger holes may have been locating holes from when they were manufactured.
I must look at a S3 Salisbury diff housing and see if those plates are different to the ones on a 2A LWB rover style diff back end.
Coop will be back tomorrow so I will try and pinch a look at his series 3 Long wheel base 'Sandy'.
.

I had a look at my Series II LWB earlier. Each plate only has one hole for a single brake pipe clamp, toward the top of the plate on the outside.

I think I'm becoming a rivet counter.....rivet, rivet.


Colin

[Blknight.aus]

I always ignored the holes....

Just put the shield in place ,worked out where the pipe wanted to be, marked the plate pulled it drilled it then put the pipe mounting fastner in place.

if you nutters want to play rivet counters you need to get away from all things british and start working with jap stuff, the poms tend to do just whatever the hell is going to work in that instance, with what they have to hand on the day within a tolerance they feel comfortable withat the time If they can make it happen and if they cant they just accept what they can do.

There IS a reason that they dont hold concourse comps on landies, its not because they are never clean enough its that no 2 are the same (from factory) and no-one has EVER set a standard for the acceptable leakage rates or flicker rates of the lighting.

The real reasons the germans couldnt beat the poms in the war was because its very hard to come up with a tactic for disabling machines when all the internal parts keep moving around so you cant tell if your going to hit something vital or not.

[gromit]

I always ignored the holes....

Just put the shield in place ,worked out where the pipe wanted to be, marked the plate pulled it drilled it then put the pipe mounting fastner in place.

if you nutters want to play rivet counters you need to get away from all things british and start working with jap stuff, the poms tend to do just whatever the hell is going to work in that instance, with what they have to hand on the day within a tolerance they feel comfortable withat the time If they can make it happen and if they cant they just accept what they can do.

There IS a reason that they dont hold concourse comps on landies, its not because they are never clean enough its that no 2 are the same (from factory) and no-one has EVER set a standard for the acceptable leakage rates or flicker rates of the lighting.

The real reasons the germans couldnt beat the poms in the war was because its very hard to come up with a tactic for disabling machines when all the internal parts keep moving around so you cant tell if your going to hit something vital or not.


Wow, my attempt at humour was lost there.....


Colin

[incisor]

I think I'm becoming a rivet counter.....rivet, rivet

but what type of rivets should you count?

a little light reading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivet#Types)


:D:D:D:D

[gromit]

but what type of rivets should you count?

a little light reading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivet#Types)


:D:D:D:D


On a Series I there are bifurcated, tubular and solid with maybe a few different head types, later models have blind (pop) rivets but not tubular & bifurcated.
The problem is knowing when solid changed to blind etc. etc.

Enough of this, I must get back to work.......


Colin

[clubagreenie]

If you drive a S3 or later do you count spot welds?

[wrinklearthur]

There IS a reason that they dont hold concourse comps on landies, its not because they are never clean enough its that no 2 are the same (from factory) .

Anyone would have to agree that there are a lot of unfinished Land Rovers out there with most of them are waiting for that vital piece of information to carry on with the proper way to fit together bits from an assorted collection drawn from the scrounging's of a life time of those obsessed with fine British examples of the ultimate design of a cross country chariot planed for the pulling of a post war Pommie economy out of the Yankie hold on finances created from floating goods and chattels across the stretch of aqua between the continents.
.

[gromit]

If you drive a S3 or later do you count spot welds?

No, but you must make sure they can be seen and aren't obliterated by bog & paint :D

Colin

[jimr1]

but what type of rivets should you count?

a little light reading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivet#Types)


:D:D:D:D
Now I know why I like this forum , I thought rivet , rivet , rivet , was a frog inpersonation :D:D . As for the brake plate , the one on the left being right ,and the one on the right , also being right . Now I think I know why you go around saying rivet , rivet , rivet ,:D:D:D.. I'm sure it will turn out all right ...

[wrinklearthur]

Hi All

The right plate has left the building, now just to make sure that you are all secure with the knowledge that the loose plate is the right one that is for the right side and Inc is to install it on the right side.

The loose plate that I removed, was secured on the left side being the right one for the left side, so after finding out the left one was instead for the right side, the left plate meant for the right that does go on the right, is the right one and it has left my place.

So why all the confusion? It is perfectly clear that the left one that has left, is right for the right and not for the left.
.

[sheerluck]

Arthur, as a native English speaker, each of those words individually made perfect sense to me.

Collectively though, you lost me just after "Hi all" :p

[incisor]

Hi All

The right plate has left the building, now just to make sure that you are all secure with the knowledge that the loose plate is the right one that is for the right side and Inc is to install it on the right side.

The loose plate that I removed, was secured on the left side being the right one for the left side, so after finding out the left one was instead for the right side, the left plate meant for the right that does on on the right, is the right one and it has left my place.

So why all the confusion? It is perfectly clear that the left one that has left, is right for the right and not for the left.
.

amen to that brother!

[wrinklearthur]

Hi All

The right plate has left the building, now just to make sure that you are all secure with the knowledge that the loose plate is the right one that is for the right side and Inc is to install it on the right side.

The loose plate that I removed, was secured on the left side being the right one for the left side, so after finding out the left one was instead for the right side, the left plate meant for the right that does go on the right, is the right one and it has left my place.

So why all the confusion? It is perfectly clear that the left one that has left, is right for the right and not for the left.
.

Sorry after reading carefully I found a typo.
It's all clear now. :D

[jimr1]

Hi All

The right plate has left the building, now just to make sure that you are all secure with the knowledge that the loose plate is the right one that is for the right side and Inc is to install it on the right side.

The loose plate that I removed, was secured on the left side being the right one for the left side, so after finding out the left one was instead for the right side, the left plate meant for the right that does go on the right, is the right one and it has left my place.

So why all the confusion? It is perfectly clear that the left one that has left, is right for the right and not for the left.
.
Thanks Arthur ,now that you have explaned it so eloquently ,and there is no confusion , well I don't think there is , Well just a little . No quite a bit . My wife asked me ? why do you keep saying rivet ,rivet , rivet .:D:D:D:D

[Blknight.aus]

Just to clarify...

When hes got the left bit thats right from your left and has both bits left and right right there if he installs the former bit thats right on the right whats left is for the left and there'll be none left but if he gets the left to the right whats left wont be right and to make it right hell have to swap left to right and right to left so that the bit that was right's on the left and the bit thats left's on the right then the there'll be no bits left and both bits are right?

Did i get that right or is something left out?

[wrinklearthur]

Just to clarify...

When hes got the left bit thats right from your left and has both bits left and right right there if he installs the former bit thats right on the right whats left is for the left and there'll be none left but if he gets the left to the right whats left wont be right and to make it right hell have to swap left to right and right to left so that the bit that was right's on the left and the bit thats left's on the right then the there'll be no bits left and both bits are right?

Did i get that right or is something left out?

That would be right but only if there is nothing left. :thumbsup:

Rivet, rivet, rivet.
.

[incisor]

:eek:

Land Rover Series 2 /2a/ 3 NRC7314/5 BRAKE PIPE SHIELDS Stainless Steel PAIR | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221191801660)

[wrinklearthur]

:eek:

Land Rover Series 2 /2a/ 3 NRC7314/5 BRAKE PIPE SHIELDS Stainless Steel PAIR | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221191801660)

Oh god! That would be r----- :o

.