Spring retaining on full lift

[Chilly]

I have fitted Terrafirma 2 lift kit to my TD5 110.

TF018 Front Springs
TF019 Rear Springs
Pro Sport Shock Absorbers
TF 120 Fronts
TF 121 Rears.

My problem is this:

When Jacking the car up:
The front springs are shorter than the shock absorber travel. E.g. The can and do move of the seats...rattle about if you like.

The rear springs retained by the bottom leave the top Spring location and dangle freely. On returning to ground they totally miss the spring housing. E.g sit outside.

I have heard the springs 'ping' as reseating whist driving on road.

My concerns are driving off road these are going to be moving around a lot potentially cause damage or an accident.


Is it normal for rear springs to leave to top seat. I would of thought at all times the spring will have some tension still....be it very little.

Help, advise, experience please.

Regards,

Chilly

[rick130]

Free length of the springs and open and closed length of the dampers might help.
Sounds like someone has mismatched your spring and damper lengths.

Unfortunately kits generally suck.

Often HD springs are just a stiffer rate to give a taller loaded height, meaning the free length of the spring is the same or shorter than the OE spring.
This leaves you with reduced droop, (the bump to droop ratio has been altered, but effective wheel travel is only the same, or even reduced from stock) meaning you are more likely to lift wheels in the real world.

[Bush65]

You have what are known in the 4wd community as dislocating springs. The regulations Aus Design Rules and AFAIK every states rules for modified suspension do not permit the springs to be unrestrained.

Now a lot ignore this fact. In the UK, they love dislocating springs. The problem with the springs re-seating is usually taken care of by re-locating cones.

My personal choice is that I'm not a fan of dislocating springs for what I do. Retaining the springs makes the vehicle more stable, and retaining the rear springs make the front suspension do more (better balance between front and rear articulation.

You do need to sort out your problem of the springs not re-seating properly, sooner rather than later. You can join the relocation cone camp, or the retained camp, your choice.

[rick130]

If it is a long travel kit John you'd think they would supply dislocating cones with it too.

If they are long travel shocks, eg. 10" travel in the front, there's a bloody good chance they'll go metal to metal at full bump without revised mounts or longer bump stops.

[aptfab]

With long travel shocks you have a couple of options -
Dislocation cones - provided they are bolted in and NOT welded in they will be fine with law enforcement, they are noisy on relocation but work well.
Progressive rate springs - a bit more work is required to get open and compressed lengths and a lot more expense is involved for a one off order but they are the best option at the end of the day

[Allan]

The dislocation/re location cones are a must, so to are the T.F. spring retention plates. As said above, noisy but work well. We had them on the 90 and found them awesome.

Allan

[Chilly]

Free length of the springs and open and closed length of the dampers might help.
Sounds like someone has mismatched your spring and damper lengths.

Unfortunately kits generally suck.

Often HD springs are just a stiffer rate to give a taller loaded height, meaning the free length of the spring is the same or shorter than the OE spring.
This leaves you with reduced droop, (the bump to droop ratio has been altered, but effective wheel travel is only the same, or even reduced from stock) meaning you are more likely to lift wheels in the real world.

Free length of spring is approx. 415mm
Centre of top bolt to bottom of Shock absorber is approx. 690mm. This one is from memory. Not sure of closed. Currently on car.

[Chilly]

If it is a long travel kit John you'd think they would supply dislocating cones with it too.

If they are long travel shocks, eg. 10" travel in the front, there's a bloody good chance they'll go metal to metal at full bump without revised mounts or longer bump stops.

This is my thought too. Rang the supplier up and he is going to investigate. Are the Springs the correct length...Shocks too long. Not right.

[LowRanger]

I have fitted Terrafirma 2 lift kit to my TD5 110.

TF018 Front Springs
TF019 Rear Springs
Pro Sport Shock Absorbers
TF 120 Fronts
TF 121 Rears.

My problem is this:

When Jacking the car up:
The front springs are shorter than the shock absorber travel. E.g. The can and do move of the seats...rattle about if you like.

The rear springs retained by the bottom leave the top Spring location and dangle freely. On returning to ground they totally miss the spring housing. E.g sit outside.

I have heard the springs 'ping' as reseating whist driving on road.

My concerns are driving off road these are going to be moving around a lot potentially cause damage or an accident.


Is it normal for rear springs to leave to top seat. I would of thought at all times the spring will have some tension still....be it very little.

Help, advise, experience please.

Regards,

Chilly


Free length of spring is approx. 415mm
Centre of top bolt to bottom of Shock absorber is approx. 690mm. This one is from memory. Not sure of closed. Currently on car.

I would be concerned id a 415mm free length spring was dislocating when the vehicle is driven down the road.What you are probably hearing is the spring reseating,after it has dislocated from the rear,as it is not unusual for the springs to catch on the top spring seats,as a lot of the springs ar made from wire that is minimally thicker than the original wire and the inner diameter of the spring is slightly reduced and hangs on the top spring seat,until there is enough force applied for the spring to force itself over the edge of the spring seat.

Most pin/eye shocks are measured from the base of the pin to the centre of the eye;)

[Chilly]

I would be concerned id a 415mm free length spring was dislocating when the vehicle is driven down the road.What you are probably hearing is the spring reseating,after it has dislocated from the rear,as it is not unusual for the springs to catch on the top spring seats,as a lot of the springs ar made from wire that is minimally thicker than the original wire and the inner diameter of the spring is slightly reduced and hangs on the top spring seat,until there is enough force applied for the spring to force itself over the edge of the spring seat.

Most pin/eye shocks are measured from the base of the pin to the centre of the eye;)

I dont believe it is dislocating. Certainly re-seating. Has to be after you have been over some of Central coasts finest roads thou. Few potholes and bumps.
Sent a 'contact' a few days back on the terrafirma website...heard nothing...not feeling the love yet...I'll give it till Friday aftrenoon and then send another.
Dont really want to go relocating cones etc....hey ho

[rrturboD]

I was looking for greater spring travel on my RRC and went for X-SPRING from X-ENG rather than dislocation cones. I used the same vehicle spring, went for the TF long travel shocks and higher top shock mount (subsequently lifted even more).
Result was amazing travel, spring contained by top mount and the internal x-spring top hat all the time. Still get some squeeking etc as top hat rubs on inside of spring as you go over roadside curbs etc. Observers say lots of noise when travelling over rough ground and articulation mounds etc, but the wheels are always on the ground and driving.

[Benny_IIA]

mounting the cones on the axle and retaining the springs to the chassis will stop alot of the noise

[Loubrey]

mounting the cones on the axle and retaining the springs to the chassis will stop alot of the noise

Or fit the Terrafirma poly jobs...

Accessories and Performance Upgrades for Land Rover Vehicles | Terrafirma Serious 4x4 Accessories (http://www.terrafirma4x4.com/search_results.php?cat=35&grp=301&menuString=ZGlzbG9jYXRpb24gY29uZXM=)

Gets rid of the metal on metal squeal as they slide back in and they are surprisingly tough...

Chilly,

if they're reseating they must have dislocated at least a little bit?

Cheers,

Lou

[chook73]

I have fitted Terrafirma 2 lift kit to my TD5 110.

TF018 Front Springs
TF019 Rear Springs
Pro Sport Shock Absorbers
TF 120 Fronts
TF 121 Rears.

My problem is this:

When Jacking the car up:
The front springs are shorter than the shock absorber travel. E.g. The can and do move of the seats...rattle about if you like.

The rear springs retained by the bottom leave the top Spring location and dangle freely. On returning to ground they totally miss the spring housing. E.g sit outside.

I have heard the springs 'ping' as reseating whist driving on road.

My concerns are driving off road these are going to be moving around a lot potentially cause damage or an accident.


Is it normal for rear springs to leave to top seat. I would of thought at all times the spring will have some tension still....be it very little.

Help, advise, experience please.

Regards,

Chilly

I know when I fitted the "matched" terrafirma shocks and springs I had the same problem with the shocks being longer than the springs.

Go figure....... :eek: