Etching primer

[S3ute]

Hello from Brisbane.

I have a few small painting jobs to do that involve unpainted aluminium panels. These are all inside the cab in low wear areas.

Can you get etching primer in aerosol packs?

I have previously used a pot and brush and, try as I might, couldn't completely hide the brushmarks with the aerosol grey primer and semi-gloss black finish coats.

Cheers,

[incisor]

yep

i get mine from the local autobahn or the local aero parts shop.

the one from the aero parts is usually dearer but i find it way better i have to say.

[gromit]

White Knight & Wattyl supply etch primer in rattle cans.
I've found that Masters are the best price (just under $10 per can)


Colin

[mike_ie]

White Knight & Wattyl supply etch primer in rattle cans.
I've found that Masters are the best price (just under $10 per can)


Colin

Solver paints do aluminium etch primer for about the same price.

[uninformed]

What ever you use I hope you have better luck than me :(

I am VERY anal about prep. Sanding, cleaning and then wax and grease remover or acetone.

I just did some shocks, so not even aluminium. Sanded, cleaned, acetone. Then K&H etch primer, followed directions. After final etch coat it was left to dry for about a week. Started the top coat with K&H engine enamel did the first coat. That was left for atleast a week. I then gave it a lite rub down with 600g sandpaper and then went to clean with acetone for next coat........

Both top coat and etch primmer rubbed right off, back to bare metal/paint :mad:

I can only think that I applied too much in one go, and even though left for a long time, it never cured....touch dry, definietly, cured NO.

I am now trying again. My coats will be VERY thin and given 2 days to dry. So it will take me atleast 6 days to do the etch then 2 weeks to do the top coat.

I have a horrible time with paint :mad: I dont think the humidity here on the Gold Coast helps either........

[northiam]

Etch primer should be used on new unsanded bare metal only, I used epoxy primer.
Cleaning new paint with acetone! Only use W&G remover.
See link. Ask questions very helpful when I repainted the falcon.
Regards

when to use self etching primer - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/when-use-self-etching-primer-133847.html)

[uninformed]

Ok, so who here is a chemist? I would really like to know the difference between Acetone and W&G remover (100% hydrocarbon)

While I have had issues before, I have also had good succsess. Remember that most of those guys would not have been talking spray/rattle cans, but quality paint to apply with a proper spray gun. Yes there will be similarites, but you dont have the range of quality in a spray can.

Any decent painted surface, that has cured properly will NOT simply whipe off with a rag and acetone.

btw, they were only referring to steel. The OP was talking about aluminium. Any non-freous metal needs etch primer. Zinc coated, Galvanised steel, Aluminium etc. Giving them a light sand and thorough clean is only going to be of benefit IMO.

I am happy to be proven wrong, but how is sanding a aready painted surface, back to bare metal in some areas, going to cause a failure with etch primer?

[gromit]

Ok, so who here is a chemist? I would really like to know the difference between Acetone and W&G remover (100% hydrocarbon)

While I have had issues before, I have also had good succsess. Remember that most of those guys would not have been talking spray/rattle cans, but quality paint to apply with a proper spray gun. Yes there will be similarites, but you dont have the range of quality in a spray can.

Any decent painted surface, that has cured properly will NOT simply whipe off with a rag and acetone.

btw, they were only referring to steel. The OP was talking about aluminium. Any non-freous metal needs etch primer. Zinc coated, Galvanised steel, Aluminium etc. Giving them a light sand and thorough clean is only going to be of benefit IMO.

I am happy to be proven wrong, but how is sanding a aready painted surface, back to bare metal in some areas, going to cause a failure with etch primer?


I'm not a chemist but wax & grease remover seems to be petrol based.
Septone is white spirit (dry cleaning chemical used instead of Turps in the UK) & petroleum

http://www.septone.com.au/msds/ASWG1.htm

Are you sure acetone isn't a solvent for the paint you're using, it makes a mess of my nail varnish....

I'm etch priming bare steel, sanding lightly & painting with epoxy from a rattle can the same day. Dry in a day or two (depending on the temperature).

White Spirit details here http://www.recochem.com.au/index.php/products/consumer_products/solvents/item/diggers_white_spirits



Colin

[uninformed]

Ive got all "diggers" brand. W&G remover, says on the side being 100% hydrocarbon. Acteone just says 100% acetone haha. BTW, when i first started to rub the painted shock with acetone, I thought "oh no, wrong stuff" switched rags and started on another spot with W&G remover...same result. Paint simply had not cured properly IMO

While painting all that in one day may work for you, I have a couple of questions. How long are you letting the etch dry? It states on my can to coat, second coat within 5 mins, additional coats within the hr or after 24 hrs. Complelely dry in 24hrs. And how many eypoxy coats are you applying over that in one day.

Humidity here plays a major role.

here is the tech stuff from Diggers. They list, among others, the W&G remover and Acetone under their "solvents" banner

http://www.recochem.com.au/files/downloads/Acetone_Sep11.pdf

http://www.recochem.com.au/files/downloads/Wax_and_Grease_Remover_Sep11.pdf

and here is their enamel thinners, which has its same main ingredient as the W&G.....isnt thinners for thining out paint AND clean up/removal....

http://www.recochem.com.au/files/downloads/Enamel_Thinners_Sep11.pdf

[Landy Smurf]

im glad this topic has just come up as I have been thinking about it lately.
I would like to see the quality of the pressure pack as it is cheap and easy to use

[jerryd]

I always use this etch primer and their complete range of paints, I've never had any problems with it unlike some I've used from Super..... !!


MOTOSPRAY Super Etch Primer Grey Pressure Pack 400g (Hichem... - Compare Prices and Deals, Shop & Buy Online in Australia at MyShopping.com.au (http://www.myshopping.com.au/ZM--779837786_Tools_and_Hardware)

[gromit]

Ive got all "diggers" brand. W&G remover, says on the side being 100% hydrocarbon. Acteone just says 100% acetone haha. BTW, when i first started to rub the painted shock with acetone, I thought "oh no, wrong stuff" switched rags and started on another spot with W&G remover...same result. Paint simply had not cured properly IMO

While painting all that in one day may work for you, I have a couple of questions. How long are you letting the etch dry? It states on my can to coat, second coat within 5 mins, additional coats within the hr or after 24 hrs. Complelely dry in 24hrs. And how many eypoxy coats are you applying over that in one day.

Humidity here plays a major role.

here is the tech stuff from Diggers. They list, among others, the W&G remover and Acetone under their "solvents" banner

http://www.recochem.com.au/files/downloads/Acetone_Sep11.pdf

http://www.recochem.com.au/files/downloads/Wax_and_Grease_Remover_Sep11.pdf

and here is their enamel thinners, which has its same main ingredient as the W&G.....isnt thinners for thining out paint AND clean up/removal....

http://www.recochem.com.au/files/downloads/Enamel_Thinners_Sep11.pdf

I'm using one coat of etch primer on bare metal, then after a couple of hours (sometimes the next day) a very light sand to take off any high spots then 2 coats of epoxy enamel. I let the first coat touch dry and then apply the second, slightly heavier coat.
I usually degrease with mineral turpentine or metho (ethanol). I don't degrease between etch & epoxy, I just keep my fingers off the surface when sanding.
Some parts like leaf springs I treat with phosphoric acid (etches & holds back any rust) then brush paint with epoxy enamel, usually 2 coats to ensure complete coverage.

Post #146 shows a shock absorber painted in a day then left for a couple of days before installing. http://www.aulro.com/afvb/other-powered-series-land-rovers/151959-isuzu-c240-powered-series-3-a-15.html

Thinning & degreasing can be done using the same product but.....some paints can be removed using thinners once they are dry. They dry by the solvent evaporating, apply more solvent and the paint becomes liquid again. I used a lot of cellulose paint back in the UK, this can be removed years down the track with cellulose thinners.

For oil based paints in the UK you could get 'White Spirit' or 'Pure Gum Turpentine'. White spirit was cheaper and it was used for thinning paints and degreasing. When I came to Australia all I could find was 'Pure Gum Turpentine' or 'Mineral Turpentine', I'm not sure whether mineral turpentine & white spirit are the same.

What about 'Prep Wash' for cleaning prior to painting.
Just checked a Dulux MSDS and it's white spirit, petroleum & toluene.

Colin

[incisor]

this is what i use

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=57201&stc=1&d=1361915917

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=57202&stc=1&d=1361915942

ASAP Aircraft Spares

07 54280567

tell em dave the computer guy sent you ;)

[northiam]

I dont know much, but I do know acetone and w&g remover are very different. Pretty sure Acetone is not a hydrocarbon.

According to a Glasurit paint tech I spoke to top coats should not be appiled directly to Etch primer. A standard primer is used to isolate etch primer acid...:wasntme:

[uninformed]

I think you will find alot of similarites between white spirits, shellite, W&G remover, prep wash. White spirits is definitley available here, diggers make it.

I dont think acetone the same, but again, the small amount I applied IMMEDIATLY removed paint. So did the W&G remover.....

I just did a test patch of W&G on the re try of etch/prime on the shocks. All good and no sign of it coming off.

One thing I try and do, and it can be hard, is to buy the same brand if using more than one part, ie primer and top coat. Hopefuly they will be compatable that way. (read back of tin/can)

I think there are alot of generlisations and wives tails when it comes to paint/painting. As much as we think they are all pretty much the same, either acrylic or enamel, there can be subtial differences in chemical that can make or break the quality of the job.

Just looked at my spray cans and acetone is 10-30% the propelant in the engine enamal, while Metho 10-20% in the etch primer.........


confusing much hahaha.

[gromit]

I've been using Wattyl Killrust products (and also White Knight) and decided I'd read the instructions....I know, absolute last resort is to read the instructions.

"Degrease using Mineral Turps."
"Wipe off overspray using Metho (Ethanol)"
"Spray topcoat within 48 hours to avoid surface contamination."

The etch primer is really for the more difficult metals to get paint to stick to like aluminium, brass, copper, st/st, zinc & lead. The HD primer is the same cost as the etch so no reason not to use etch primer on steel.

"Apply topcoat directly over the etch primer."

I guess there are etch primers & etch primers. Not sure why you would need a primer over an etch primer, would increase sales though. No seriously, you might need to isolate one paint type from another, it wouldn't be just to boost sales.....

Colin