Bull bar information

[ken224]

Bull bars.

This has been discussed extensively in the past and so far I have learned:

ARB (same issues apply to OL)
-----------------------------
- strong with good clearance, but
- no provision for cameras
- parking sensor holes have to be drilled and there is no mounting hardware?
- water bottle clearance is a problem
- headlights can not be removed while the bull bar is in place

ECB
---
- has provision for cameras and sensors, but
- mounting of cameras/sensors is somewhat "agricultural" (zip ties)
- parking sensors often do not work and ECB does not provide any support
- poor clearance
- alloy is weaker than steel

Land Rover
----------
- seems to have provision for cameras and sensors, but
- I have never seen it in flesh (apart from some photos of prototypes which may not represent the final product)
- dealers only know the price and stock status. No display model
- no information on headlamp clearance and removal, bulb replacement
- no information on installation. Can the original cameras be used and how are they mounted
- ditto for sensors
- does fog light removal (bulb replacement) require access from behind?

All this almost makes me give up and save a lot of money ...

Does anybody have experience with the LR bar? Any photo of the final product? Any advice about other products I am not aware of?

Thanks

[Piddler]

You forgot Land Rover bar ugly as sin you must like what you look at and it is certainly not eye sweet.
Cheers

[Tinman]

Have ARB bar with parking sensors fitted without drilling bar as you void warranty which works great. When was the last time you had to pull out your headlight

[ken224]

Yes, I have seen the Land Rover photos (prototype?) but not the real thing. The prototype is not a pretty sight, very in your face. Is the final product the same? Has anybody seen it?

But in my case it is more about functionality than aesthetics. The headlights were designed to allow bulb change without tools and in poor light. I can not imagine why they have designed the ARB this way. Same goes for the parking sensors: not much use if they constantly beep.

Seems all the products I know of have some serious shortcoming or other. Is there anything else out there?

And yes, I have replaced light bulbs before and have been grateful for being able to do it without special tools.

[101RRS]

When was the last time you had to pull out your headlight

I have had my car for 2 1/2 years and had to do it twice - currently a blown parker so will have to do it again.

If I had a bar it would have been a pain.

Garry

[Tinman]

Had mine 7 years never replaced a bulb yet. With fingers crossed. Fitted parking sensors myself to ARB bar no drilling steel. work a gem with no unwanted beeps. Works like Landrover fitted. Just because someone else has failed does not mean that it cant be done:)

[SBD4]

Yes, I have seen the Land Rover photos (prototype?) but not the real thing. The prototype is not a pretty sight, very in your face. Is the final product the same? Has anybody seen it?

But in my case it is more about functionality than aesthetics. The headlights were designed to allow bulb change without tools and in poor light. I can not imagine why they have designed the ARB this way. Same goes for the parking sensors: not much use if they constantly beep.

Seems all the products I know of have some serious shortcoming or other. Is there anything else out there?

And yes, I have replaced light bulbs before and have been grateful for being able to do it without special tools.

looks like its the same:
Sydney Landrover Prestige Vehicle Sales ? The Alto Group (http://www.alto.com.au/alto-landrover-sydney/news/Discovery-4-bull-bar)
http://www.mlr.com.au/ssl/assets/48_98_301_6/Bull-Bar-Special-Land-Rover-MLR.pdf
2000GBP from britcar - got to be at least 1K cheaper than here(at a guess):
Britcar (UK) Ltd > VPLAP0108 BAR - PROTECTION(G) (http://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php?xProd=199819&xSec=5497)

[ADMIRAL]

Ken,

Not quite correct. you can buy an OL bar predrilled for sensors. I know because the first bar OL tried to give me was this bar.

Yes you cannot take out the headlight completely, but you can get it out far enough to easily change globes. If you really want the headlight out, take out the top mount bolts, and swivel the bullbar forward.

[ken224]

Thank you for this. So the new generation of OL can be pre-drilled for sensors. How about the cameras? Has anybody used ARB or OL with cameras?

Thanks

[Tombie]

I have had my car for 2 1/2 years and had to do it twice - currently a blown parker so will have to do it again.

If I had a bar it would have been a pain.

Garry

On the D4 I can change everything from behind the light with it in place... (Except the light itself).

And my lights themselves are proving quite resilient considering the number of bird strikes they have survived recently :(

[oldsalt]

All this almost makes me give up and save a lot of money ...

until the day you hit a big roo - (which I hope never happens to you) - BUT if it does you'll wish you had got the bar... :(

[Tombie]

All this almost makes me give up and save a lot of money ...

until the day you hit a big roo - (which I hope never happens to you) - BUT if it does you'll wish you had got the bar... :(

And I got Oh.. So.. Close to doing that about 8 times yesterday :D

Driving up the Lincoln Highway, Onto the Stuart Highway for 6 hours in driving rain...

All the Hoppers were out getting a drink on the Highway:mad:

Missed one by inches (lovely slalom move at 120) only to have the other one with it hop into the side of the vehicle on LHR corner :(
Only the bumper has a small mark... Thankfully...



Fitting the cameras is an easy task - just dont get your barwork colour coded. Get the Bar, drill and mount the cameras (ABR bars already have provision for front park sensors) and then get local paint shop to colour code...

[ken224]

Driving 120 while avoiding the plague of wildlife? This takes some courage. And what happens to injured animals? Are they are left to suffer while they heal or worse?

On a more serious note: I would have thought that drilling for cameras would void the warranty. What about the airbag and crash certification? What would the insurance company say after a crash?

Have you actually done this? How did you fasten the cameras? They must be held in place somehow. In the original bumper there are mounting posts with screws and brackets. ECB is using zip ties. What did you use?

Do you have photos? Thanks.

[Tombie]

Nothing I hit is left alive :)

If I don't travel at 'close' to legal speeds I just won't get anything done.

You get very used to wildlife up here.

I have not done the install of cameras but have done a bar with sensors.

The ARB bar has proper retaining plates and bolts to locate the sensors.

A local has the cameras and just drilled and bolted them in.

[AnD3rew]

I saw a D4 in the flesh with a LR bar the other day, ugly as :censored: and about as useful as :censored: on a bull. It basically sits on top of the existing bar, the bar work is too close to the bonnet and it would do :censored: all if you hit a big roo except make the repair job more expensive because you'd have to fix all the normal damage and replace the bar. IMHO of course.

[ken224]

Thank you Andrew. I was looking for a first hand account of the experince with the LR bar. Mind you, it is not surprising there are not too many of them if they are so ugly and useless. One may have to wait a long time to see one.

Anyway, I am not interested any more...

[mervwho]

I have an Opposite Lock bar fitted with both cameras and sensors and all work just fine.

Cheers

Merv

[sheerluck]

In the 2 months I've been hunting, not a single bar for a D3/4 has made an appearance on the second hand market. If you want one you definitely have to pay full coin.

I would like one for my D3-in-bits, but the wallet clenches somewhat at the full cost. I know that they would save that cost several times over in the event of introducing Skippy to the D3 in the dark at 100kph in the middle of nowhere. I like the ARB one, but may need to wait for bonus payout time this year......

[ADMIRAL]

In the 2 months I've been hunting, not a single bar for a D3/4 has made an appearance on the second hand market. If you want one you definitely have to pay full coin.

I would like one for my D3-in-bits, but the wallet clenches somewhat at the full cost. I know that they would save that cost several times over in the event of introducing Skippy to the D3 in the dark at 100kph in the middle of nowhere. I like the ARB one, but may need to wait for bonus payout time this year......

Yeah,

Dave, it is pretty much a non reversible fit, and I doubt you will see many s/h bars come onto the market. As you have to cut the flares up, and save all the oe bits and pieces, I for one would not worry about trying to reverse the fit, and restore the front end. The other point is that a good proportion of the OL or ARB bars fitted, have been colour coded, and that in itself reduces the potential for sale. You would not only have to find someone to buy it after going to all the trouble of buying and refitting the oe gear, but find someone with the same colour requirement. ( or reduce the sell price by the cost of recoating ) It's getting more unattractive as an option as I write this.

[sheerluck]

Yeah,

Dave, it is pretty much a non reversible fit, and I doubt you will see many s/h bars come onto the market. As you have to cut the flares up, and save all the oe bits and pieces, I for one would not worry about trying to reverse the fit, and restore the front end. The other point is that a good proportion of the OL or ARB bars fitted, have been colour coded, and that in itself reduces the potential for sale. You would not only have to find someone to buy it after going to all the trouble of buying and refitting the oe gear, but find someone with the same colour requirement. ( or reduce the sell price by the cost of recoating ) It's getting more unattractive as an option as I write this.

So the sole remaining option for getting one really, is finding one at a wreckers that hasn't had a front ender. And do you know how many D3s are sitting in wreckers yards that weren't front ended, and had a bar on the front?

None. There's a rolled one at TRS in Adelaide, another at British Off Road on the Sunny coast, neither of which had a bar.

[Canaussie]

To an Arb bar, too value and strong, with colour codin they look great. I hit a very large roo and ended up with no panel damage to vehicle, the bar unfortunately had to be replaced as it was twisted! If you do decide on a bar make sure you inform your insurance of the upgrade to vehicle so it's covered!

57339

[VK3GJM]

Hi All,

Thank you for the discussion. I have been researching about which bar to fit. It appears the OL is the most suitable for my needs as I have cameras and sensors on my new Disco 4.

How does the OL compare to the ARB when it comes to fitting a winch?

Both bars look fine on the vehicle when colour coded. I have only one choice now, is the OL the best looking and most durable bar?

Least but not least, has anyone fitted an ARB bar on this forum onto a vehicle with cameras and sensor's, the word on the street is, the sensors work OK and you do have to drill this may be a serious compliance issue?
Regards

Gerald

[Tombie]

Hi All,

Thank you for the discussion. I have been researching about which bar to fit. It appears the OL is the most suitable for my needs as I have cameras and sensors on my new Disco 4.

How does the OL compare to the ARB when it comes to fitting a winch?

Both bars look fine on the vehicle when colour coded. I have only one choice now, is the OL the best looking and most durable bar?

Least but not least, has anyone fitted an ARB bar on this forum onto a vehicle with cameras and sensor's, the word on the street is, the sensors work OK and you do have to drill this may be a serious compliance issue?
Regards

Gerald

Hello Gerald

I answered a similar post in another thread...

Drilling for the cameras wont hurt.. And wont effect the bar in a way that insurance would mind.

The OL unit is a tinnier, brittle metal compared to the ARB unit.
In a hit, the metal is more prone to shear, tear and break.
Its also marginally thinner in places.

The LEDs in the OL bar make it slightly easier to wire but fail regularly requiring replacement of the light assembly (just replaced 4 on our Prados).

The OL bars seem to suffer harmonics more, moving around more than the ARB bars on some here on unsealed surfaces - the OL ones shake quite a lot.

The OL bar is an import knock-off (almost exact) of the ARB product which can be had (haggle) for the same price.
I wont personally sell out local jobs and manufacturing to buy an inferior clone.

I do want LED lights - Quality ones - in my ARB bar so have purchased a pair of ADR compliant units and having a laser cut mount made at the moment.

I got my ARB winch bar cheaper than OL quoted (Bar -supply only).

cheers
Mike

[VK3GJM]

Hi Mike,

I am a bit shocked to read the OL product is an import. I am all for buying Australian and made by Australians.

You have introduced a curve ball, but thanks for that.

What do you mean by Laser mount cut, where. Can you share some photos, are the ARB LED strips inferior?

With 2 forward facing cameras, is the interface wiring long enough to position them in a slightly better spot?

Thank you for the response.

Regards

Gerald

VK3GJM

[Tombie]

Gerald I am on a mine site at the moment.

Will get pics later when home.

[VK3GJM]

Thanks. No hurry.

Regards

Gerald

[discojools]

Sorry to be downer but I had a bad time having my OL bar fitted. Maybe it was the branch I went to but it took them 3 maybe 4 goes to make it look crap. In the end I got my panel beater to refit it including buying and painting new flares as OL had cut the originals crooked. I then had Peninsula Rangie fit a winch to it and they said it wasn't easy. I'm reasonably happy now after spending an extra $600 to get it to look almost right.
Wish I'd bought an ARB!
Some other people have not had the experience I had...maybe I was just unlucky or too picky!

[VK3GJM]

OK, thanks for the feedback.

Decided with Aussie, owned, built and supported, ARB bar it is. If it does not fit properly and lighting fails, ARB can be held accountable.

Regards

Gerald

VK3GJM

[DRD]

I had a 'East Coast Bullbars' Al bar fitted to the D4 with cameras as the bar is setup for the cameras. You can get the bar painted or polished, they also provide a blanking plate to cover the winch mounting hole. I had it supplied with 2 antenna mounts as it is easier to have them fitted first up. The front parking sensors work ok but you will still have false indications when they are wet. Think it is the water getting between the sensor and the bar.
Hope this info helps
Cheers
Des

[gghaggis]

Some pics of the test fitting of an OL bullbar to a 2008 RRS here in Perth. More to come when finished. Note the gap between the side (top) edge of the bar and the fender - they've filled it in with a custom plastic (colour-coded) piece, but still looking to get it right.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1442.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1443.jpg

Cheers,

Gordon

[sniegy]

Very interesting Gordon,

Please keep us updated, be keen to see the finished product.

Cheers

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

[ADMIRAL]

Gordon,

Have you seen the recent posts under Welcome to the D3/4/RRS Zone (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/42033-welcome-d3-4-rrs-zone.html)?

A different option from Europe on offer.

[gghaggis]

Gordon,

Have you seen the recent posts under Welcome to the D3/4/RRS Zone (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/42033-welcome-d3-4-rrs-zone.html)?

A different option from Europe on offer.

Yes, but that seems (again) to be only for Disco's

Cheers,

Gordon

[PerthDisco]

Hi Gordon

In reading all these bullbar posts the question I have is why do you not have a BB considering the considerable miles and adventuring you do?

Or have you since added one?

Regards
Richard

[DiscoWeb]

Hi All,

Thank you for the discussion. I have been researching about which bar to fit. It appears the OL is the most suitable for my needs as I have cameras and sensors on my new Disco 4.

How does the OL compare to the ARB when it comes to fitting a winch?

Both bars look fine on the vehicle when colour coded. I have only one choice now, is the OL the best looking and most durable bar?

Least but not least, has anyone fitted an ARB bar on this forum onto a vehicle with cameras and sensor's, the word on the street is, the sensors work OK and you do have to drill this may be a serious compliance issue?
Regards

Gerald

Gerald,

I have the OL bar fitted to my D3 witha a winch fitted no problems.

I saw Trombie's post about the ARB V's OL and I certainly have not experienced any harmonics or shaking from the bar.

Whilst I can not comment on the structural rigidity/metallurgical composition it feels pretty hard when I hit it with my fist :D, certainly harder than the plastic bumper and bits and pieces it replaced !

In the end with haggling and shopping around I am sure you could get the price very very close, what sold me was the 2 week wait for the OL Vs 3 mnths for the ARB. I was impatient and wanted it for a trip I planned for Christmas so went Ol.

Recently hit a small roo/wallaby and not a mark on the bar or car panels so I am happy with my investment.

[gghaggis]

Hi Gordon

In reading all these bullbar posts the question I have is why do you not have a BB considering the considerable miles and adventuring you do?

Or have you since added one?

Regards
Richard

All my travels in the last 3 years have been daylight-only driving, and I've been willing to take the risk - especially seeing as I have had no choice, due to no bar being available for the Sport. If that changes I may consider it.

Cheers,

Gordon

[TerryO]

The last two marsupials we have hit have been in the daylight hours. Thank god for bull bars or the Disco would have been off the road for repeated repairs.

Regarding the quality of various bull bars. Seriously I would want to see the proof that OL bars are made of inferior materials or have design faults before accepting Tombies comments as being anything other than one mans opinion.

I would hazard a guess roughly 50% of D3/4 owners who have bars fitted would have an OL bar, I'm sure most on here would like to know how many of you have had issues with your bars like Tombie describes?

[discojools]

I have noticed harmonics from my OL bar only since the winch was fitted. Only notice on very smooth roads. Apart from that I wouldn't have another one after the hassle I had getting it fitted. Ended up costing me another $600 (including new set of flares) after I had to get my panel beater to fix the mess that the OL fitters had made.
All looks ok now but next time it will be an ARB or none at all. D4 drives much better without all that weight on the front. Obviously can't always guarantee I'll being driving daylight hours though.

[Redback]

Gerald,

I have the OL bar fitted to my D3 witha a winch fitted no problems.

I saw Trombie's post about the ARB V's OL and I certainly have not experienced any harmonics or shaking from the bar.

Whilst I can not comment on the structural rigidity/metallurgical composition it feels pretty hard when I hit it with my fist :D, certainly harder than the plastic bumper and bits and pieces it replaced !

In the end with haggling and shopping around I am sure you could get the price very very close, what sold me was the 2 week wait for the OL Vs 3 mnths for the ARB. I was impatient and wanted it for a trip I planned for Christmas so went Ol.

Recently hit a small roo/wallaby and not a mark on the bar or car panels so I am happy with my investment.

Well I certainly can, I hit an Emu(full size adult) at speed with the camper on, not a mark on the bar, I checked out the differences between the two bars, same steel, the OL bar is finished a bit better, the holes for the fog lights are trimmed around the light as you can see in GGs pics, the ARB has just a hole, looks cheap.

The gap under the lights is the same on the ARB bar, ARB don't put anything in that gap, at least OL do, as for vibration or harmonics or it moving, none from mine, the bar is solid and tuff.

They only just started bringing the bar in from Asia, before that Outback Accessories in Perth were making them, the process and steel is the same so I'm told, oh and the OL bar is $200 cheaper.

Baz.

[jon3950]

Regarding the quality of various bull bars. Seriously I would want to see the proof that OL bars are made of inferior materials or have design faults before accepting Tombies comments as being anything other than one mans opinion.


So does anyone know what grades of steel are the ARB and OL bars made from?

[chuck]

I have heard rumours that the 285/60/18 tyres rub on the ARB bar.

Not sure if it is correct but would pay to check if planning on using this size tyre.

[Runnadude]

Does anyone know the best store in Melbourne to fit the OL bar. It looks pretty schmick!

[discojools]

Does anyone know the best store in Melbourne to fit the OL bar. It looks pretty schmick!

I'm not saying anything but another AULRO member also had his bar fitted at the same place as mine and had problems.

PM me if you want more info


Jools.

[Canaussie]

I have heard rumours that the 285/60/18 tyres rub on the ARB bar.

Not sure if it is correct but would pay to check if planning on using this size tyre.

Ill tell ya in a month when I fit mine I believe it's only at access height!

[Disco4SE]

I have heard rumours that the 285/60/18 tyres rub on the ARB bar.

Not sure if it is correct but would pay to check if planning on using this size tyre.
This is correct Chuck. That size tyre will not work with the ARB bar, but will with the OL bar.

Cheers, Craig

[Canaussie]

This is correct Chuck. That size tyre will not work with the ARB bar, but will with the OL bar.

Cheers, Craig

So I'm curios where the problem is with the Arb vs the OL bar?

[TerryO]

I'm not saying anything but another AULRO member also had his bar fitted at the same place as mine and had problems.

PM me if you want more info


Jools.

Given your comments Jool's the question needs to be asked is this a OL product problem or is it a particular installer issue?

[trif]

Given your comments Jool's the question needs to be asked is this a OL product problem or is it a particular installer issue?

Hi Terry,

I had my OL bar installed by the Newcastle guys. Excellent job. No problems at all. I suspect with Jools it was an installer issue. BTW, l have never had any harmonic issues (l have a winch installed). The bar works. I hit a decent size roo earlier in the year bending the bar a bit, but no panel damage at all. Used the winch to pull the bar back to normal position. All good.

Regards Trif.

[Disco4SE]

Given your comments Jool's the question needs to be asked is this a OL product problem or is it a particular installer issue?
Yes Terry, it was the installer that was the problem, not the bar.
I saw Jools bar before & after the refit.

Cheers, Craig

[Tombie]

Just FYI - the OL bars on the Prado also resonate and vibrate a lot compared to the ARB versions.

The OL bar meets ADRs I never said it didn't.
What I did say is the ARB material is better, and less prone to tearing in impacts.

I can tell you the material is metallurgically different. It sounds different and behaves different.

Anyone who can provide me a piece of OL bar I will happily have analysis done vs ARB steel material.

[Heavyduty]

I am also looking at an ARB bar, so can anyone elaborate on where the ARB bar differs to the OL bar that causes the issues with the large tyres.

Thanks
Dave

[jon3950]

I can tell you the material is metallurgically different. It sounds different and behaves different.

In what way? Are we talking about the sheet or the tube?
If the OL bar comes out of Thailand its most likely Japanese steel, which pretty closely follow the American standards and are similar to Aust standards. I wouldn't expect any significant metallurgical differences.

Cheers,
Jon

[TerryO]

1. Just FYI - the OL bars on the Prado also resonate and vibrate a lot compared to the ARB versions.

2. The OL bar meets ADRs I never said it didn't.

3. What I did say is the ARB material is better, and less prone to tearing in impacts.

4. I can tell you the material is metallurgically different. It sounds different and behaves different.

5. Anyone who can provide me a piece of OL bar I will happily have analysis done vs ARB steel material.



1. So far the only comments by the D3/4 owners that OL bars resonate has come from Jools who it would seam was unlucky enough to have his installed poorly. Maybe your work Prado's have had theirs installed poorly as well?

2. Don't remember seeing anyone say that OL bars don't meet ADR's, or anyone accusing you of saying it.

3. How can you say an ADR bar is made of better material without actual proof? Where is the proof of OL bars being more prone to tearing from an impact?

4. Again how do you know it is inferior without proof? Seriously have you based most of this arguement on the actual sound the metal a Ol bar is made of makes if you bang it compared to banging the metal of a ARB bar?

5. Finally in point five you are asking for a sample so the two brands can be directly compared, which is good if you can find someone wanting to chop up their bar for you. Both bars that are to be tested would have to be new or at least 2012 to be relevant, given even ARB may have changed their materials supplier recently.

So who is going to offer up their new Ol bar so Tombie can get it tested? I take it your going to cut up your ARB bar as a donor then Tombie?

Seriously Tombie if anyone else came on here and made a arguement like you have based on opinion and psossibly hear say you would be the first to tear them to pieces. Also you are publicly rubbishing a product that many Aulro members own or are considerng buying based on nothing more than circumstantial evidence and it would seam a clunk or a clink that the steel makes when its banged.

By the way my two bull bars are ARB products and I'm very happy with them, but in my opinion to come on here and rubbish a product and build up another like you have without proof is just plain wrong.

[Tombie]

Whatever you wish to believe Terry.

I already have the steel spec for ARB bar work, but if anyone has bent the other bar and had it replaced I can have a remnant tested at our lab.

Having seen both brands crashed (on Prado mind you) the metal behaves differently. One is more ductile than the other.

One also gets a resonance at speed on unsealed roads and moves quite a lot (this has broken a few requiring rewelding)

Have also had many failures of the LED arrays as stated previously. However not related to tensile or ductile properties so moot in this...

Both bars can be had for the same price.

One is a knock-off of an Aussie designed product made O/S and one is the original IP manufacturer and keeps jobs in Aus.

Do I personally care which unit people fit? Not unless you're a member of my family I don't.

Will either protect from a normal strike?
Yes...

Which do I believe will hold up better? In things like heavy offset impacts?
The original.

People asked questions, I replied. Don't like the reply? Ignore it or question it - I don't mind.

If people require dissonance reduction that is not my role.

I personally researched both bars thoroughly before going with ARB as it presented to me as a better, known, product.

Just as I did vehicles when looking for a new one. LR lost on that one! However the salesman cost himself a sale and LR got the nod.
I'm happy with my choice and enjoy the vehicle immensely.
It was not my preferred choice though.

People should do their own research, listen to input from people like you and me and then make up their own minds.

Just as I think Holden's and Fords are poor quality - many love them.

In the end... Get what you want.

I won't trouble you with any further thoughts...

[Disco4SE]

I am also looking at an ARB bar, so can anyone elaborate on where the ARB bar differs to the OL bar that causes the issues with the large tyres
Boofdtl on this forum will be able to answer this one. He tried fitting the same tyres that I had on my D4 with the OL bar, to another D4 with an ARB bar, and they wouldn't fit.

Cheers, Craig

[Redback]

1. So far the only comments by the D3/4 owners that OL bars resonate has come from Jools who it would seam was unlucky enough to have his installed poorly. Maybe your work Prado's have had theirs installed poorly as well?

2. Don't remember seeing anyone say that OL bars don't meet ADR's, or anyone accusing you of saying it.

3. How can you say an ADR bar is made of better material without actual proof? Where is the proof of OL bars being more prone to tearing from an impact?

4. Again how do you know it is inferior without proof? Seriously have you based most of this arguement on the actual sound the metal a Ol bar is made of makes if you bang it compared to banging the metal of a ARB bar?

5. Finally in point five you are asking for a sample so the two brands can be directly compared, which is good if you can find someone wanting to chop up their bar for you. Both bars that are to be tested would have to be new or at least 2012 to be relevant, given even ARB may have changed their materials supplier recently.

So who is going to offer up their new Ol bar so Tombie can get it tested? I take it your going to cut up your ARB bar as a donor then Tombie?

Seriously Tombie if anyone else came on here and made a arguement like you have based on opinion and psossibly hear say you would be the first to tear them to pieces. Also you are publicly rubbishing a product that many Aulro members own or are considerng buying based on nothing more than circumstantial evidence and it would seam a clunk or a clink that the steel makes when its banged.

By the way my two bull bars are ARB products and I'm very happy with them, but in my opinion to come on here and rubbish a product and build up another like you have without proof is just plain wrong.

I have never seen a Toyota bullbar not wobble or vibrate, they all wobble, regardless of the bar.

I agree with both points that are highlighted.

Baz.

[discojools]

Yes I have seen Toyotas mainly Hi Luxs coming towards me on corrugated roads looking like the bars were about to disintegrate they were shaking so much. I think that is the reason that OL fitted their bar to my D4 with such big gaps initially. I reckon they didn't understand that the D4 chassis is so much more stiff than allot of the Jap brands. It has to because because of the independent suspension.
That is still no excuse for fitting the bar crooked on the first 2 attempts at installing. After the 3rd attempt I gave up and had my bloke do it instead.

Reasonably happy now.

[discotwinturbo]

ARB bars are too heavy for Toyotas ;-)

Brett....

[Redback]

ARB bars are too heavy for Toyotas ;-)

Brett....

I know they are to heavy for the FJ Cruiser, it needs to be modified to have a bullbar and I believe the Hilux too(previous model 2011/12)

Another reason I chose the OL Bar, was the UHF Antenna mounts, they are far left and right on the bar, as apposed to right in the middle of the driver and passenger view on the ARB Bar.

Baz.

[Tombie]

I know they are to heavy for the FJ Cruiser, it needs to be modified to have a bullbar and I believe the Hilux too(previous model 2011/12)

Another reason I chose the OL Bar, was the UHF Antenna mounts, they are far left and right on the bar, as apposed to right in the middle of the driver and passenger view on the ARB Bar.

Baz.

Slight correction...

They haven't made the ARB bar with tabs for disco since the D3.... Inboard or out.

[Canaussie]

Mmmm I'm still waiting on where 285 60 18 tyres foul the ARB bar??

[Canaussie]

The cooper ltz are only 37mm larger in diameter and 30 mm wider 4% difference

[Redback]

Slight correction...

They haven't made the ARB bar with tabs for disco since the D3.... Inboard or out.

Are you talking about the antenna mounts??

Cause Phils ARB Bar on his D4 had them in the same spot as the old ARB bar, just going on what I've seen.

[Tombie]

May have been a very early unit (or an old D3 production run.

But they haven't since 2011.

[chuck]

Canaussie

I do not know for sure but I believe the 285's rub on the bar return where it meets the front guard i.e. where you have to cut the flare off.

I think this is due to the width not the diameter.

I thought some one on here sold a set of the 285's because they were rubbing on the ARB bar.

Again - I am not sure so perhaps some one with direct experience will confirm.

[Canaussie]

Thanks Chuck, I have the tyres just sitting there in the garage saying put me on, put me on.....lol

[Disco4SE]

I thought some one on here sold a set of the 285's because they were rubbing on the ARB bar
Yeah they did Chuck. Michael (boofdtl) form Tyrepower Camberwell tried to fit them and they would not work.
The owner PM'd me to check if mine definately fitted with my OL bar.

Cheers, Craig

[Canaussie]

Mmm no I'm worried mine will rub!

[Redback]

May have been a very early unit (or an old D3 production run.

But they haven't since 2011.

Phils D4 was the first D4 fitted with an ARB bullbar, according to ARB Southern, the ARB bullbar for the D4 is different to the D3.

[Guppy]

Mmm no I'm worried mine will rub!

Hi Canaussie,

I was the unlucky one that had them fitted and found the ARB bar rubbed. It was in the lower section where the washer reserve had to sit (where the original bar has it)
Even with LLAMS at 35mm articulation was still an issue. I could have done some mod to this plastic area, but I could see the steel bar support may have been an issue.
The OL bar seems to not project as far back.

Still got tyres for sale if anyone interested

Gup

[Disco4pilot]

Are you talking about the antenna mounts??

Cause Phils ARB Bar on his D4 had them in the same spot as the old ARB bar, just going on what I've seen.

I was just pricing up ARB and OL. ARB said no tabs for antenna and that they can't be added as when the bonnet is released it comes forward slightly and hits them. OL bar must sit a bit further forward as it has them fitted.

OL (in Sydney at least) has a special at the moment for a free set of driving lights with the bar. Supposedly OL branded but made by Light Force. The prices I have been offered for winch bar are $2500 ARB fitted and colour coded $2400 OL fitted and colour coded with a set of spot lights included.

[Tombie]

Phils D4 was the first D4 fitted with an ARB bullbar, according to ARB Southern, the ARB bullbar for the D4 is different to the D3.

And the old man has the last of the D3s sold and his ARB bar has no Tabs...

[Tombie]

I was just pricing up ARB and OL. ARB said no tabs for antenna and that they can't be added as when the bonnet is released it comes forward slightly and hits them. OL bar must sit a bit further forward as it has them fitted.

OL (in Sydney at least) has a special at the moment for a free set of driving lights with the bar. Supposedly OL branded but made by Light Force. The prices I have been offered for winch bar are $2500 ARB fitted and colour coded $2400 OL fitted and colour coded with a set of spot lights included.

They are charging HOW much to install?

Both bars are ~$1300 if you haggle.

Colour coding is about $250.00

They want $800-900 for a 3 hour install?

No wonder they can give away a set of Light Farce.

[101RRS]

I went into my local Opposite Lock store to see if a bar for the RRS has been listed as yet and if it has what its price would be.

Unfortunately the customer service was absolute crap and I had to approach sales staff to try and get some answers. Unfortunately the little 8 year old girl sales assistant behind the counter didn't have any idea and said the big people were up the road.

It is little wonder businesses go broke - unfortunately they are the only OL shop in the area.

Garry

[discotwinturbo]

I went into my local Opposite Lock store to see if a bar for the RRS has been listed as yet and if it has what its price would be.

Unfortunately the customer service was absolute crap and I had to approach sales staff to try and get some answers. Unfortunately the little 8 year old girl sales assistant behind the counter didn't have any idea and said the big people were up the road.

It is little wonder businesses go broke - unfortunately they are the only OL shop in the area.

Garry

Garry,

I recall reading that Gordon was involved with the testing of the bar recently, so might be some time off.

I would love to go back into the 4WD accessory business again, with what I have learnt over the years. It would be easy to do so much better than just about all of the competitors.

Brett.....

[VK3GJM]

I was told by a 4x4 expert with regular TV segments that the OL is made in Thailand, steel unknown. ARB all made in Australia, local steel, hence different steel type.

Anyway, ARB bar ordered, the fun of fitting it begins in 3 weeks.

Regards

Gerald

VK3GJM


Just FYI - the OL bars on the Prado also resonate and vibrate a lot compared to the ARB versions.

The OL bar meets ADRs I never said it didn't.
What I did say is the ARB material is better, and less prone to tearing in impacts.

I can tell you the material is metallurgically different. It sounds different and behaves different.

Anyone who can provide me a piece of OL bar I will happily have analysis done vs ARB steel material.

[scarry]

They are charging HOW much to install?

Both bars are ~$1300 if you haggle.

Colour coding is about $250.00

They want $800-900 for a 3 hour install?

No wonder they can give away a set of Light Farce.


Ordered one today,colour coded,fitted, similar price to Tombie........:)

before i got onto the guy i know,i was quoted around the $2450 mark,which seems the going rate.......

[Fred Nerk]

Thus far I have been lucky. But once again (last night) the local wildlife saw fit to stand in the middle of the road and introduce stress to my journey. I missed the deer, but this morning I'm researching bars.

ARB won't supply a bar because I have surround cameras. My brother, who also has a D4 with surround cameras, has an OL bar. The installation seems good and he is very particular about such things. There is a little loss of view in both front cameras, but the fields of view overlap so that the total view is possible using both cameras. He has hit roo quite hard and suffered no ill effects except the need to hose off the bits and blood.

When I attended a Green Oval seminar, I was influenced by Gordon's sentiment that you can manage without a bar if you take precautions. It looks like even Gordon is putting a toe in the water.

I think I'll go down the OL path. To be confirmed..........

[scarry]

I have been lucky with wildlife as well,had a couple of very near misses lately.

With the ARB bar,they have sorted out the front park sensors,but i don't think the cameras are fully sorted.

It also depends where you have it fitted,some stores are ARB stores, many are franchised.
Some have done very few D4's,if any.There are also a few horror stories as well,but these were almost all caused by a stuff up during fitting.

Mine has neither,so this was not an issue for me,and i had a contact,so thats why i went that way.

It is also interesting that ARB make thousands of bars for D3/4,most are sold overseas.

I think also a lot of their gear will eventually be made overseas,apparently the new overseas plant they have is HUGE.

In todays competitive market,and with high manufacturing costs here in Aus,they probably have no option,which is a shame.

As the guy from Ford said in the media the other day,it costs twice as much to make an identical car here than in Europe and four times more than Thailand.

[Silenceisgolden]

Have ARB bar with parking sensors fitted without drilling bar as you void warranty which works great. When was the last time you had to pull out your headlight

Two weeks ago... I wanted to change the indicator globe, and while a nimble small handed person can get the headlight globes out - maybe - I don't think it is possible on the indicators.

I asked ARB about the headlight and grill removal issue, and they replied that they never bother about that issue, just that it complies with regulations.

I broke the two lower pins off the grill, so it can be removed for cleaning bugs out of the radiator without removing the bullbar. The leads from the driving lights hold the bottom snug.

[Brad]

ARB most certainly have not sorted the front sensor issue. Mine still don't work properly after 3 or 4 ARB attempts
at fixing them, and three replacements due to breakage caused during.

Given the rear sensors in my kaymar work fine (fitted by ARB at the same time) I can only blame the bullbar design, specifically the structure accomodating the sensors.

[LRChris]

Has anyone from the Geelong area had an OL bull bar fitted? If so, which OL dealer fitted it and we're you happy with the job? Also do front park sensors work without an issue? Cheers

[ADMIRAL]

Two weeks ago... I wanted to change the indicator globe, and while a nimble small handed person can get the headlight globes out - maybe - I don't think it is possible on the indicators.

I asked ARB about the headlight and grill removal issue, and they replied that they never bother about that issue, just that it complies with regulations.

I broke the two lower pins off the grill, so it can be removed for cleaning bugs out of the radiator without removing the bullbar. The leads from the driving lights hold the bottom snug.
I have the Ol bar, and while the headlight assy cannot be removed completely without tilting the bar forward, the headlight assy's come out easy, and rest on the flat of the bullbar. With the headlights half out, all of the globes/filaments can be accessed. The grille comes completely out without any interference from the bullbar.

[TDV6]

I have had the ARB bar for 8 years now and other than one parking light in the bar its self have only replaced both H7 high beams with +90 bulbs now there are +120 H7's out I am thinking of upgrading again.

My grill is easily removed and is still complete.

To me any bar is a no brainer but I prefer steel and I had mine colour coded to the car.

Ryall

[Fred Nerk]

I took the plunge and have had a colour matched Opposite Lock bar fitted. They were offering a deal with free driving lights. The bar has been installed and the sensors, cameras work perfectly. The driving lights will be installed tomorrow along with an awning for my Front Runner roof rack.

Almost ready for a trip to cross the Simpson in two weeks.

[scarry]

Might see you there we are leaving Alice around the 25th or 24th

[Geedublya]

If you get an Opposite Lock bar, tell them you don't want 20mm plus clearance for the flares.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g152/geedublya/D4%20OL/P8170116.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/geedublya/media/D4%20OL/P8170116.jpg.html)

I'm having discussions with my installer now. They think it is OK and is what is specified. I think it is ****.

What did installers do for the inner guards for those who have an OL bar fitted?

Mine has one cable tie.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g152/geedublya/D4%20OL/P8170119.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/geedublya/media/D4%20OL/P8170119.jpg.html)

I also think this is ****ty.

Just for laughs here are the photos of my Kaymar rear bar install.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g152/geedublya/D4%20OL/P8170098.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/geedublya/media/D4%20OL/P8170098.jpg.html)

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g152/geedublya/D4%20OL/P8170100.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/geedublya/media/D4%20OL/P8170100.jpg.html)

[IMG]http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g152/geedublya/D4%20OL/P8170101.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/geedublya/media/D4%20OL/P8170101.jpg.html)

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g152/geedublya/D4%20OL/P8170106.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/geedublya/media/D4%20OL/P8170106.jpg.html)

I also seem to be missing the brackets for underneath the exhausts to the rear bar can anyone confirm they are still there on the D4?

[SBD4]

That is one slack installation Geedublya! I thought with the Kaymar at least, that it was engineered to fit well with the body panels - looking at this vid sure shows a better result can be expected:

The Kaymar Bar - YouTube

As for the front bar, there's no excuse for people to treat your vehicle in such a cavalier fashion - they really don't give a stuff.

I really have a hard time trusting that people will do a good job and try their best to do work they can be proud of - too rare these days that it actually would happen.

I've often thought we should all team together to do these installations for each other - many hands and all that stuff. Work done by people who care.

- radio installs
- bar work
- brake controllers
- Dual battery systems
- lighting
- antennas

[discotwinturbo]

If you get an Opposite Lock bar, tell them you don't want 20mm plus clearance for the flairs.

20mm plus is crazy....You will need about 10mm. Chassis bounce on corrugations will see the flair hit the bar.

Brett.....

[discojools]

"If you get an Opposite Lock bar, tell them you don't want 20mm plus clearance for the flairs."
Yeah been there myself. After 4 revisits to OL here in Melb gave up, bit the bullet ordered two new flares and had my panel beater refit the bar and new flares ( which he cut perfectly) but cost me $600 extra..
Mine looks OK now.

Haven't been back to OL again and never will.

[trif]

"If you get an Opposite Lock bar, tell them you don't want 20mm plus clearance for the flairs."
Yeah been there myself. After 4 revisits to OL here in Melb gave up, bit the bullet ordered two new flares and had my panel beater refit the bar and new flares ( which he cut perfectly) but cost me $600 extra..
Mine looks OK now.

Haven't been back to OL again and never will.

Hi guys,

Don't be too hard on the OL bar itself. I don't mind it and has already deflected one skippy saving me thousands of dollars. Like any franchise there are good outlets and the bad. In my instance the Newcastle OL boys are great to deal with and know Land Rovers. I specifically told them l didn't want a huge gap and they complied. In fact you can see from the photo l have no gap due to the type of rubber insert they have used, yet still alows the chassis to move freely. The black cable ties to hold the wheel arch covers appear to be standard issue, but cheap to replace if you need to access under the bar for any reason.

Regards Trif.

[discojools]

Not giving the bar a hard time just the monkeys that fitted it!

[Geedublya]

Yes, I like the bar. It has more clearance for larger tires, LED lights, UHF mounts up high, front sensors and camera provision. I'm just rather peed off with the fitting.

[Brad]

ARB has now sorted the D4 front sensor issue with a new design that incorporates the OEM mounts from LR. My front sensors now work perfectly.

[PeterJ]

Hi all, after quite a bit of searching these topics and threads I went with the OL bar, again, it was about sensors, cameras and the ability to still change the light globes that got it over the line. I was told by the OL retailer that the sensors are held in place by silicon, (sikaflex) seems like a poorly engineered solution, I will look at another way of doing it I think. Can anyone confirm this? Interestingly I called the ARB dealer down south in Adelaide 4 days ago and was told that the ARB bar was not camera compatible, made the decision easy really, so you do wonder about product knowledge given all the comments on this forum.
Anyway, for those who have an OL bar, it seems 10mm between the flairs and the bar is the considered to be enough clearance, has anyone had any contact problems at 10mm when off road.
Thanks

[Fred Nerk]

I have an OL bar and was initially disappointed with a 20mm plus gap at the flairs.

OL said it was because it stopped the flairs being knocked off...."Yeah right" I thought. But I'm not too fussed by looks. Otherwise I was happy with the installation. I have sensors and cameras, all work.

Then I crossed the Simpson. Driving toward one of the 1100 dunes I discover too late that there was a deep trough at the end of the approach and the front wheels were in it when we smacked into the dune. Full frontal impact and a complete stop in a wall of sand.

I was surprised (read pleased) that the air bags did not deploy. It gave my wife a fright and a sore shoulder.

Inspection revealed that the bar had been tilted slightly back and there was now no gap on the driver's side and a couple of mm on the passenger's. Flairs intact.

On return we went back to OL who took the bar off checked everything and put it back on as good as new. Gaps restored as before. No major parts bent or damaged. A few wrinkles in the lower panels of the bar to straighten (easy job).

I am happy there is a decent gap to allow the bull bar to do its job......Flex, absorb and protect.

[grumpa]

I have a D3S with a steel ARB Bull Bar. I have front sensors installed without any issue of warranty. They work fine too!

[GP1200]

Just to reignite this thread, I have 2013 D4 with park sensors,and have damaged my OEM bar on my Harvey extreme experince plus some under body plastic winglet thingies and the front fender is not aligned anymore.

Good excuse to go bullbar shopping!

After reading all the comments, my question is can anyone recommend a good supplier / installer in the Perth area? ARB or or OL, It seems more important to find a good installer rather than the brand of the bar ?

Tossing up between black or colour coding Fuji White to match the car?

Any pictures / thoughts to help make the decision,

Looking at pricing, baring in mind the WA tax, which is getting smaller due to the current market conditions ! Seems quite varied well.

Thanks
Jack

[JamesH]

Can't remember who did my ARB. It was actually handled by a LR recommended panel beater when it was in for a roo strike. I think it was west coast bars but call Lombardi Brothers panel beaters for the correct name. They said they were the best in Perth and did all their work. I'm very pleased with the job they did.

They supplied the bar. ARB said 4 to 6 weeks for me but these guys did it in about ten days. So they clearly have privilege at the factory.

[scarry]

Just to reignite this thread, I have 2013 D4 with park sensors,and have damaged my OEM bar on my Harvey extreme experince plus some under body plastic winglet thingies and the front fender is not aligned anymore.

Good excuse to go bullbar shopping!

After reading all the comments, my question is can anyone recommend a good supplier / installer in the Perth area? ARB or or OL, It seems more important to find a good installer rather than the brand of the bar ?

Tossing up between black or colour coding Fuji White to match the car?

Any pictures / thoughts to help make the decision,

Looking at pricing, baring in mind the WA tax, which is getting smaller due to the current market conditions ! Seems quite varied well.

Thanks
Jack

My D4 is also appliance white,and i went for a colour coded bar.
I don't like it for two reasons,the paint is very difficult to keep clean,and being white shows every mark,whether it be an insect or a stone chip.

The other issue is if you do any beach work it will get rust marks along many of the edges.

My other vehicles had black bars,so much easier to live with.

[Stuart02]

Just to reignite this thread, I have 2013 D4 with park sensors,and have damaged my OEM bar on my Harvey extreme experince plus some under body plastic winglet thingies and the front fender is not aligned anymore.

Good excuse to go bullbar shopping!

After reading all the comments, my question is can anyone recommend a good supplier / installer in the Perth area? ARB or or OL, It seems more important to find a good installer rather than the brand of the bar ?

Tossing up between black or colour coding Fuji White to match the car?

Any pictures / thoughts to help make the decision,

Looking at pricing, baring in mind the WA tax, which is getting smaller due to the current market conditions ! Seems quite varied well.

Thanks
Jack

What are your lights mounted to, out of interest?

[GP1200]

Hi Stuart,
Tim from Autospark Osbourne Park WA has them made up,
Mine was a little different, as I have the LIGHTFORCE 215LED's
They weigh nearly 7 kilos for the pair, So Tim reinforced his normal bracket and put in some extra supports due to the extra weight, nice job and would recommend them, but my bumper got some extra cuts and abrasions from the Harvey weekend, so all that good work will be removed if I get a new bar

[GP1200]

I haven't work out how too post 2 x photos

[Stuart02]

Very neat. I'm sure someone here will be keen to take the mount off your hands!
I think polished alloy looks pretty schmick on white :)

[BMKal]

Black ARB Bar ..............

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/12/858.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

White Opposite Lock Bar ...................

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/12/859.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

I suppose it's all a matter of personal taste. I prefer the black bar on a Fuji White D4, but I have seen some with white bars that also look good. The trick with the white bar is to leave all the lower panels on the bar (bash plates etc) painted black, as LandyAndy has done with his. Looks much better than an all white bar.

The only "polished alloy" bar I've seen on a D4 is the OEM one from Land Rover. I was parked next to a D4 with one of these fitted in Perth earlier this week and had the opportunity to compare side-by-side. I would never even consider one of these bars. If you have already damaged your OEM plastic bumper when off-roading, the chances are that you would have done even more damage to the vehicle in the same situation if you had the OEM bar installed on your car. The main "channel" of this bar sits in front of your OEM plastic bumper bar (does not replace the bumper bar as both the ARB and OL bars do) - which has a negative effect on your approach angle. Also, the OEM bar is mounted far too close to the bodywork for my liking - any movement in the bar at all is likely to result in some expensive body repairs. Apart from the above, I do not believe that the OEM alloy bar would be anywhere near as strong as the ARB / OL steel bars.

But as said earlier - it's all a matter of personal preference. ;)

[Silver Anchor]

Since everyone tells me my 2009 RRS is basically a D4 will any of these bullbars fit it

[BMKal]

Since everyone tells me my 2009 RRS is basically a D4 will any of these bullbars fit it

Yes - a few have done it. Picture below is ARB bar (same as on my D4) fitted to a RR Sport. Haven't seen any of the OL bar fitted to a Sport, but don't imagine that there would be any problem with it.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/12/843.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[LandyAndy]

As the pic shows they fit,and look bloody good too.Your issue is they are only ADR tested for the Disco.
Stupid rule,they are BASICALLY the same vehicle.
Andrew