Why do all my bolts rust?

[mojo]

Most of the bolts holding my fender together are rusting to some extent - the door hinge bolts are probably the worst. I can understand this to a certain degree - I've taken it on the beach quite a few times, and I'm pretty sure the previous owners did the same. But there are some bolts which to my mind just shouldn't be rusting. For instance, I put on a wheel carrier a couple of years ago, and I've not been on the beach since then. Yet these bolts have started rusting, with no exposure to salt water at all. Seems odd to me ...

[ted44]

Have you got a ERPS system on the landy, my mates got a pootrol and since he's had the ERPS system put on he reckons the bull bar is being used as a sacrificial anode!

[mojo]

Nope, no ERPS.

[firsttimedefender]

Did you use mild steel, high tensile or galvanised bolts/nuts?

[ugu80]

ERPS does not work. All stories to the contrary are anecdotal with no basis in fact or science. For your problem, especially with your liking for the beach, a good spray with lanolin or the like, about a litre every 12 months and your Defer will thank you.

[Slunnie]

ERPS does not work. All stories to the contrary are anecdotal with no basis in fact or science.
Is there science to say it doesnt work? I suspect there is some pretty basic science to say it does work while trying to recall way back to my material science and chemistry lectures. Whether it is usefully effective may be a different story.

I suspect it may have something to do with dissimilar metals reacting also, where the steel is sacrificed. Much like the door frames rusting.

[ugu80]

Is there science to say it doesnt work?

Yes. Lots. Physics is more relevant to this than chemistry. The subject has been discussed ad infinitum but, basically, the whole car has to be surrounded by a conductive medium for ERPS to work (which is why it is used on ships) i.e instead of just driving along the beach actually drive it into the ocean and leave it there, it will work until its power source expires.

Also see 'Post Purchase Rationalization' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-purchase_rationalization

"Ye' Cannae Break Th' Laws o' Physics!!"

[mojo]

Did you use mild steel, high tensile or galvanised bolts/nuts?

The bolts came with my Bearmach wheel carrier, pretty sure they would be high tensile steel.


For your problem, especially with your liking for the beach, a good spray with lanolin or the like, about a litre every 12 months and your Defer will thank you.

I've used fish oil to slow down rust, it seems to work pretty well. My main question though is why the bolts on my wheel carrier have started rusting, when they've never been exposed to salt water.

[ugu80]

Rust happens at the interface between the wet and dry metal, even not drying water off after washing or rain, not just sea water. The only effective prevention of oxidization is a barrier on the metal i.e. paint, galvanizing with zinc or a coating of oil. After washing and drying, try a light spray of WD40 on the bolts to give a protective layer.

[Rick Fischer]

Hey guys, mine lives in Canberra and still the bolts show corrosion. Just crappy pommy cad plating. Nearly all the posi-drives have corrosion in the drive from the installing tool taking the cad off.

Its a bloody LR :)

RF

[Loubrey]

Mine came with complimentary ERPS and I can attest to the fact that it does not work...

Proof's in the pudding and my car has as much surface rust on the unpainted surfaces as my neighbor's 110 that doesn't have it fitted and he's is even a year older than mine.

I find the spray tin lanolin a bit watery (viscosity wise) and it washes off in the rain. Do you get a better application with the bucket and sprayer approach?

Nothing beats the old waxoil as in the UK, but Aussie heat would have the whole lot puddled on your drive way...

Cheers,

Lou

[jimr1]

Hi mojo ,I also have an Extreme and a 86 county , the county bolts are in better condition than the Extreme, I think a lot of parts became lesser quality . It won't cost a furtune to change them over ,you could use stainless steel , then you can forget about it . If you go down that road and can't get them local , they are available in the uk on Land Rover Defender ebay . Best of luck jimr1 :):)...

[Loubrey]

I've been dealing with Stig Fasteners for years (see the link below). They do bolt replacement kits for most Land Rovers and I'm in the process of systematically changing out most of the non high tensile bolts and nuts on my car.

So far my chequer plate, wing top intakes, mudflap brackets, mudflap mounts and bonnet hinge screws have been changed out. I've got the body tub bolts for the rear but I've not changed them yet.

Land Rover (http://www.a2stainless.co.uk/Land-Rover_B2142O.aspx)

The shipping is roughly the same for a $50 to $150 order, so maximise if your making the effort.

Cheers,

Lou

[Albert]

ERPS does not work. All stories to the contrary are anecdotal with no basis in fact or science. For your problem, especially with your liking for the beach, a good spray with lanolin or the like, about a litre every 12 months and your Defer will thank you.

I rememeber reading a artical in a magazine about not being able to use the wording about stopping rusting in the USA because it was proven that it didnt.
They still can in Australia though.

[d@rk51d3]

Sounds like a job for Popeye. He's got a method of rust prevention. ;):D:p

[jimr1]

Hi mojo , after loubreys info thats a good way to go , i've changed my bonnet screws and nuts for s/s , plus i have s/s door nuts and bolts . the thing is the kits come with the right sizes ie. lengths diamiters . just a simple change over all the best jimr1..:)

[Offender90]

Hi mojo , after loubreys info thats a good way to go , i've changed my bonnet screws and nuts for s/s , plus i have s/s door nuts and bolts . the thing is the kits come with the right sizes ie. lengths diamiters . just a simple change over all the best jimr1..:)

If you do swap your bolts to stainless, don't forget to apply a liberal amount of anti-seize, or you may find the fastening a bit more permanent than you would have liked

[Loubrey]

I'm no metallurgist, but I do know that aluminium and stainless steel don't like each other much (over very long periods of time) and I've always used copper grease liberally as anti-seize and for prevention of aluminium corrosion on the holes and fixings.

You get it in aerosol as per the link, but I prefer a tin or pot to really get a decent coating (available from your local farmers mart)

Buy Greases 3-in-One,Professional, Anti-Seize, Copper grease, Aerosol, 300ml WD-40 44617 online from RS for next day delivery. (http://australia.rs-online.com/web/p/greases/5362454/)

Cheers,

Lou

[Loubrey]

Hi All,

Following up on this older post, I have had to do a bit of rust management myself on my MY 2010 90.

My rear cross member started looking decidedly ordinary (no rust, but weird faded patches) and my OEM tow bar had started rusting good and proper. Add to this my rear mud flap brackets that had the coating (powder or paint, not sure) separating from the steel body of the bracket.

Started off by stripping the brackets and the rust up between the cross member and the bracket was scary. I would have replaced the bracket had I anticipated the rust, but not having done so I drilled the rivets holding the rubber out and took the drill mounted wire brush to the brackets. Stripping them back to metal I gave them a good couple of coats of rust preventative epoxy enamel.

The tow bar needed the wire brush as well and again got close to bare metal. The tow bar is pretty rough finished in any case and I decided I can do a tidy enough job with a brush and avoid risking over spray.

Finishing all that I gave everything a good coating of cavity wax (Tectyl 506) and I bolted the mud flaps back using stainless steel hex buttons on the vertical side of the bracket and normal stainless steel M6's to mount them to the chassis with liberal application of copper compound.

Last thing was to clean off excess wax with mineral turpentine (replacement product). Some pictures of the end product attached.

I'll in the next couple of days be changing both the tub bolts (5 pairs across the back) and the rear cross member chassis bolts (2 sets) visible in the last picure with stainless steel ones from my Stig Fasteners kit as described earlier in the post.

Cheers,

Lou

[flagg]

Use this when you have dissimilar metals in contact:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/694.jpg

[Loubrey]

Hi Flagg,

Thanks for that! A bit pricey but I suppose its good gear if they charge that much - $52.40 + $10.00 delivery...:eek: for 115ml

Duralac Jointing Compound : Arnold's Boat Shop (http://www.arnoldsboatshop.com.au/duralac-jointing-compound-70598/dp/6415)

OK the price varies significantly... $32.90 + Aus post

Duralac - Anti Corrosive Joining Compound Cassell Marine (http://www.cassellmarine.com.au/p/337808/duralac---anti-corrosive-joining-compound.html)

Or $11.46 for a kick off big pot (250ml) from the Netherlands...

Duralac anti corrosion [DURA] - €8.75 : Elise Shop, Performance parts for your Lotus Elise (http://www.elise-shop.com/duralac-anti-corrosion-p-298.html)

Don't suppose you can mail order compounds like this from overseas?

Cheers,

Lou

[flagg]

Yeah I got mine from Cassell marine, I think it was around $44 delivered. You don't use much of it though, and it should save a lot of hassle in the future.

[jimr1]

Hi mojo , thanks for keeping us up to date with your bolts , plus the pics . It looks like it has all turned out OK . There aren't to many places that the s/s nuts and bolts toutch the alloy, by all means put a barrier on, there are many different types of s/s as are there alluminiums electrolosis between them is in the low end of the scale . I notice that you don'thave bumpers on the back . Once again the been counters at L/R ..good luck jimr1 ...

[Loubrey]

Hi mojo , thanks for keeping us up to date with your bolts , plus the pics . It looks like it has all turned out OK . There aren't to many places that the s/s nuts and bolts toutch the alloy, by all means put a barrier on, there are many different types of s/s as are there alluminiums electrolosis between them is in the low end of the scale . I notice that you don'thave bumpers on the back . Once again the been counters at L/R ..good luck jimr1 ...

Hi jimr1,

I imagine you are writing about my pics and bolts ;)

I'm taking flagg's advice and I've ordered some of the Duralac gear before I continue with my SS bolt replacement. The tub ones attach the aluminium to the cross member, so I'll use the jointing compound.

The mudflaps and chassis fixings are mild steel to SS and I'd imagine the copper compound on the SS bolt is sufficient.

With "bumpers" I imagine you are talking about the half oval aluminium tube thingies on the rear corners? Land Rover have only fitted those to the commercial variants for many years now and as Australia imports no commercial 90's (Pickup/Ute and Hard Top) it's unlikely that you would see many of those bumpers...

Bespoke bumperettes appear to be the way forward now if you want to protect the rear corners.

Cheers,

Lou