D2 radiator fan on - is this a symptom of doom?

[Wil2k]

Hi all,

Hoping for some help / reassurance. Over the last week I noticed that the electric radiator fan is staying on after I turn off the engine. I've read several posts where people are saying "That's good. It's supposed to do that." Etc but it hasn't been behaving like this until now, and the driving is very mild city driving in cool weather.

My radiator overflow tank seems a little lower than normal so I will top that up ASAP. I have not observed any liquids dripping from anywhere (other than the obligatory territorial oil spots). The temp gauge seems to stay dead centre it might move by a mm but I could also be imagining that. :-/

How can I tell how hot the engine really is. I remember reading that the temp gauge is pretty much "ok" or "wooah, miles too hot!".

I don't have a nano com, but do these monitor real temp values? I've seen plants of digital engine saver gauges on eBay.

I really am broke at the moment so I just need a hand diagnosing if it is panic stations time or not. Hopefully there's some stuff I can do myself to eliminate some possibilities and get to the cause.

Thanks in advance.

Wil.

[brougham]

Nah the temp gauge is useless. Get a ScangaugeII or other meter to get an accurate reading.

[d2dave]

I know you said that you are broke but if you cane scrape up $150 get one of these.

ENGINE WATCHDOG TM2, Engine Overheating Alarm, Gauge & Sensor (http://enginewatchdog.com/)

They measure the temp of the steel, not the coolant, and if temp starts to climb an alarm will sound long before any engine damage.

[Wil2k]

Yeah I've seen the TM2 talked about. Does the nanocom cover that functionality at all from internal sensors? $150 is a good slice off a nanocom.

I'm hoping against hope that this is just a faulty temp sensor, nut the low fluid level scares me.

[FURY]

Try the relay box near the overflow tank. My V8 2000 fan was staying on after switch off i took the relay out and swap with another one problem fixed. has done it a couple of time since so i sprayed some contact cleaner on it hasn't been a problem since. good luck

[d2dave]

I would think the only difference between Nanocom and the temp gauge is the Nanocom will give you the actual coolant temp, but it would have to use the same sensor as your temp gauge to get the imformation.

I agree that the $150 is close to half a Nanocom but if it saves you from cooking your TD5, need I say more.

[Trippy]

I ordered one of these (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Android-Torque-ELM327-CAN-BUS-Car-Bluetooth-OBD2-Diagnostic-Interface-1-5a-/200911518519?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D11%26meid%3D6862378529552842416%26pid%3D100 011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D261197304366%26)l ast week for $15. I have not received it yet, but it supposedly you just connect it to your OBDII port and connect it via bluetooth to your Android phone and use an app called Torque (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque&hl=en)to read temperature as well as loads of other stuff.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1021.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1022.jpg

[Disco Muppet]

I think this was discussed recently, in that they will supply basic factors, but they're more designed for newer cars.
Paging Don Offtrack, I'm sure he'd know.

[OffTrack]

I ordered one of these (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Android-Torque-ELM327-CAN-BUS-Car-Bluetooth-OBD2-Diagnostic-Interface-1-5a-/200911518519?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D11%26meid%3D6862378529552842416%26pid%3D100 011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D261197304366%26)l ast week for $15. I have not received it yet, but it supposedly you just connect it to your OBDII port and connect it via bluetooth to your Android phone and use an app called Torque (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque&hl=en)to read temperature as well as loads of other stuff.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1021.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1022.jpg

I think Wil has a td5 so a generic reader wont be much use. Diesels weren't required to support OBDII until 2005, so the coverage of PIDs is very limited. Its a few years since I had a play and I couldn't say with any certainty that coolant temp is one of the available PIDs. I know that what was available wasn't that interesting - rpm, road speed, calculated load, throttle position were about it. I'd gone to the trouble of buying a kiwi wifi and it was essentially a complete waste of money for real time monitoring.


Cheers
Paul

[gavinwibrow]

Yeah I've seen the TM2 talked about. Does the nanocom cover that functionality at all from internal sensors? $150 is a good slice off a nanocom.

I'm hoping against hope that this is just a faulty temp sensor, nut the low fluid level scares me.
I use my nanocom as an instrument cluster permanently set up in my wee beastie and temp is on the first screen and accurate - nanocom also has a settable temp alarm for when it gets warm! $150 vs $400 - good insurance if you plan on keeping the vehicle

[Trippy]

Ah ok, didn't know the diesels were different. I saw it used in the video below (watch at 5:05). Not sure what year his car is but at the start of the video you can see that the headlights are from a D2a.

How To Change Land Rover Thermostat and Coolant - YouTube

The Scangauge uses the OBDII port as well right?

[OffTrack]

Ah ok, didn't know the diesels were different. I saw it used in the video below (watch at 5:05). Not sure what year his car is but at the start of the video you can see that the headlights are from a D2a.

How To Change Land Rover Thermostat and Coolant - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17kcLy-rMAA)

The Scangauge uses the OBDII port as well right?

Yes scanguage uses the OBDII port. Year doesn't make any difference to OBDII support on the D2's. OBDII was a requirement for petrol vehicles from 1996 onwards hence the full support on the V8.

cheers
Paul

[Wil2k]

Bang on Paul. You're right I do have a TD5 (2002)

[PhilipA]

I may be wrong on this but Thinking about WHY fans remain on really hinges on the temperature of the engine when switched off and the "heat soak" developed.
The switch on a 14CUX petrol is set to trip at 102C and switch off at around 96C.
I expect that the ECU will do the same. If the sensor reports over say 102C then the fans will stay on.
SO IMHO your problem is that the engine is running too hot. Reason?

The most common reason is that the radiator is blocked. Distant second maybe faulty sensor. Another reason for overheating is the head gasket has failed but this should be accompanied by other problems like blowing out the water.
First step is new radiator at about $350. Experience on the forum is that cleaning will not work with an aluminium radiator and it will cost almost as much as a new one anyway.
BUT one thing is for sure it will not get better by itself.
Regard sPhilip A

[OffTrack]

On the Td5 the fan will run if the temp is 105°C with 10 seconds of switch off. The fan cuts out again when the temp drops below 100°C.

I agree that it's unlikely a head gasket. The engine is only likely to overheat as a result of loss of coolant resulting from a blown head gasket, so if the coolant levels look ok and you haven't been losing coolant that is unlikely be an issue.

As Philip suggests the cooling system is probably the culprit. You mentioned you were broke at the moment I'd suggest checking and testing the thermostat and temp sensor to make sure they are functioning correctly as a starting point.

The thermostat should fully open by 96°C so you can test by placing in boiling water and checking that it is opening fully. RAVE contains a chart of resistances and temperatures for the coolant sensor. You should be able to place the tip of the sensor into boiling water and check that resistance is correct.

A cheap multimeter with k probe would also give you the ability to check the temperature of the head and hoses when you stop after a run and give you an idea of what is going on.

Doss Digital Multimeter with Temperature Probe | Crazy Sales (http://www.crazysales.com.au/doss-digital-multimeter-with-temperature-probe.html)

cheers
Paul

[walker]

The sensor area will also heat up slightly when you turn the engine off as the viscous fan is not running anymore. I have watched on the Scanguage as the temperature increases by 2-4 degrees for a short time.
Now I have seen that on a warm day or after a "enthusiastic" drive that the temp can be up close to the sensor limit and then when I turn the vehicle off it goes over the limit and sets off the electric fans.

I think this is normal and a good thing.

But to be absolutely sure you need some kind of accurate water temp measurer.

[Disco EMU]

The engine is only likely to overheat as a result of loss of coolant


The same thing happened to me a few months ago. The fan was running for some time after switching off because the engine wasn't able to cool properly ... it was leaking coolant through the radiator.
Check your coolant levels, top them up with water (to begin with) and do a pressure test on the radiator. If all that checks out then it could be something more sinister.

Good Luck

Craig

[OffTrack]

walker,

perhaps if you have been working the engine hard that is true but as Wil said in the first post:


Etc but it hasn't been behaving like this until now, and the driving is very mild city driving in cool weather.

which does seem to point to something being amiss.

[Trippy]

I know this doesn't help the OP since he has a Diesel, but I received the ELM327 this morning and tested it out on my 1999 D2 V8. It works great! I got it mostly because I was worried about the state of my cooling system but the engine coolant temp sits at 85 degrees when driving and 88 degrees when idling (ambient temp of 25 degrees today). Those are good temps right?

[OffTrack]

Sounds pretty good to me. The thermostat begins opening at 82°C and is fully open at 96°C so you're not really putting much load on the cooling system.

cheers
Paul

[northiam]

The cooling fan on my td5 often run on until I replaced the radiator. The rad wasnt leaking and the engine didnt use coolant but after 10 years its time for a new one. The best <$300 I spent on the D2 I reckon :)

[Wil2k]

:-( in an an wanted turn of events, I had to top up the coolant tonight with 3L of demineralised water. Looks like I'm losing it somewhere. My partner has been driving the car to and from work all week and watching the temp. She didn't report and fluid loss that she was aware of (under the car etc).

So my focus is now on figuring out where the loss is occurring.

[d2dave]

. OBDII was a requirement for petrol vehicles from 1996 onwards hence the full support on the V8.

cheers
Paul

Wrong. SWMBO 98 fairlane does not OBD II

[OffTrack]

Wrong. SWMBO 98 fairlane does not OBD II

"From 1996 Petrol engined Vehicles sold into the US were required to have OBDII". Better?

[OffTrack]

:-( in an an wanted turn of events, I had to top up the coolant tonight with 3L of demineralised water. Looks like I'm losing it somewhere. My partner has been driving the car to and from work all week and watching the temp. She didn't report and fluid loss that she was aware of (under the car etc).

So my focus is now on figuring out where the loss is occurring.

Wil, Sorry to hear about the problems.

Fingers crossed it's just a leak rather than anything more catastrophic. You should have a check that the hoses aren't pressurised after a drive. There are going to be a fairly obvious marks from coolant if you've had to put in 3L of water. Fingers crossed it's just a leaking hose or similar.

cheers
Paul

[Hay Ewe]

2002 TD5 D2a

Last week after a 140km of sustained higher speeds (and one 'blow out' speed) my fan ran after shutdown - had never experienced that before.

Some of my hoses weep at connections and once in a while I top off the coolant level in the reservoir.

As we do intend to keep ours I put him in to the local specalists to get a quote on replaceing hoses and coolant.
He found that the core plug under neath the exhaust manifold was weeping as well - its quite hard to get a look at - mirror and torch required but its worth a check. They haven't come back to me with a quite yet, its not going to be cheap but as I say, we intend to keep ours and its 11 years old and so needs some investment.

Hay Ewe

[Trippy]

Can the core plugs be replaced without disassembling half the engine?

[OffTrack]

The core plug on the Td5 head is located between two branches of the exhaust manifold. You have to remove the manifold to access it, but you have clear access once you do that.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/940.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8642475040/)

You can see the location between the exhaust ports in this pic. This is an AMC head and the plug looks to be different to the standard LR item. Obviously the engine is half disassembled in this photo but it definitely isn't required to fix the core plug.

cheers
Paul

[Wil2k]

Can anyone advise a moderately priced coolant system pressure test kit option available in Brisbane?

[d2dave]

I made mine. Cost $20. This is for my old TDi. I have yet to see if it fits my TD5.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5271/pressuretest.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/pressuretest.jpg/)

[SiddersC]

Mr Whippy's version is great and would be cheap to knock up
You could also make one for next to nothing with a tyre Valve stem and an old expansion tank cap, checking the pressure with you tyre gauge

[d2dave]

Mr Whippy's version is great and would be cheap to knock up
You could also make one for next to nothing with a tyre Valve stem and an old expansion tank cap, checking the pressure with you tyre gauge

If you do do this or copy mine just be very careful you do not over pressurize and blow you radiator, or worse heater core. I will never put more than 20 psi in a cooling system.

What I do when using mine is switch off my compressor when it gets to 20. Another safe way to do it would be to make up a hose that connects to a tyre. Deflate/inflate it to 20psi.

[SiddersC]

A safer method is to pressurize using a bicycle pump, much less chance of accidental over pressurization, generally you won't need too much pressure and leaks are often more visible on a cold motor

You can also attach a remote pressure gauge, handy for checking suspect head gaskets and other overpressurisation issues

[Wil2k]

I made a joyful discovery last night. For the very first time since this issue started I observed coolant pooling under the vehicle from the underside of the engine somewhere. This makes me very happy! No longer does it seem that it's all disappearing magically into somewhere bad! First time I've ever felt good about a leak! :-) I probably would have been into this more quickly but the recent priority was to get my partner's car back on the road. (Saved $1500 by doing some googling, YouTube and eBay! But that's another story... Screw you Ford!).

Would anyone have an unwanted D2 TD5 coolant reservoir cap they'd sell me? I'm about to send Bundalene a message via ebay as he's helped me out with parts before.

[Yorkie]

Would anyone have an unwanted D2 TD5 coolant reservoir cap they'd sell me? I'm about to send Bundalene a message via ebay as he's helped me out with parts before.

you may aswell buy an original from l/r, not expensive and peace of mind for such an important part on the car. :)

[BIG O]

Hay Ewe ..just on the core plug under the manifold ,,you can fix this leak without manifold removal.
1. Grind out manifold webbing btw ports 3 &4. I use combinations of drills ..hole grinding burrs and files.
2. Cut a straight 3/4 inch piece of Allen key ..pretty sure its 12mm.Use a grinder for this .
3. Insert the piece of Allen key into the plug.Use a 12mm ring spanner to either nip up or remove the plug for the application of sealant .
4. Job done you have just saved a lot of money.
I ended up taking mine about half way out applying some alant and tightening up. Hasn't leaked since.