Sound Deadening

[Ben7]

Hi all

I'm going to sound deaden the 130 td5 this long weekend. Looking at using Dynamat Extreme on floors and doors. Has anyone undertaken this? just looking for a few tips and to hear about the end result

cheers ben

[130man]

Hi Ben,there are a number of threads on this topic and all you need to do is "search". They all report worthwhile gains in both sound and heat reduction. Cheers, 130man.

[manic]

here's the most recent
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=1898235&posted=1#post1898235

[Tombie]

Do the roof as well...

It's amazing how much noise is from that roof!

[County3.9]

Hey Ben, I've used Dynamat on the County. Excellent product and it worked, but expensive. Definitely do the roof, makes a big difference. I also used bostik 8152 sound deadening sheets, a lot cheaper. Make sure you understand the difference between deadening the panels and insulating the sound, otherwise you will not get the result your looking for.

[County3.9]

Oh, and the search function on this forum is hopeless

[mools]

I got a real cheap rubber solution, picked it all up from work for nowt.

59457

:D

Seriously though, if it bothers you good on ya for trying to sort it out.

Ian

[flagg]

Hi all

I'm going to sound deaden the 130 td5 this long weekend. Looking at using Dynamat Extreme on floors and doors. Has anyone undertaken this? just looking for a few tips and to hear about the end result

cheers ben

G'Day Ben,

Did this a few years ago using Dynamat - used 3 extreme packs IIRC. Make sure you seal everything up really well before you start, no little holes, gaps or anything - anywhere.

If you havn't already, get the Puma style under door seals - they will make a big difference and don't cost much. It is also worth replacing all the little rubber gromits around the wires in the firewall as once they start to break down they will not insulate sound at all.

Without doing the above, you won't get the most out of the (significant) investment in dynamat.

The second thing that is really important is that dynamat itself will make a big difference in that it stops the panels from resonating noise and heat, but it doesn't absorb any noise in itself.

For this you neat a Vinyl or Butyl layered matt. It is like a very heavy closed cell foam matting.

[DeeJay]

Do the roof as well...

It's amazing how much noise is from that roof!

The last Landie I did the roof & agree!! Next time I will buy a couple of yoga mats from Big W - they are only $12.00 each - about the area of a camp bed- and soft foam about 10mm thick- wont burn either, a much cheaper option.

[granno]

Hi all

I'm going to sound deaden the 130 td5 this long weekend. Looking at using Dynamat Extreme on floors and doors. Has anyone undertaken this? just looking for a few tips and to hear about the end result

cheers ben

You will need more than a long weekend unless you know exactly how much you need and have a cutting list - and depending on how insane you want to go.

I am bang smack in the middle of doing my 110 now - I reckon I have spent over $3k easy. I did just the dynamat on the floors with 1 dynamat extreem megapack and stopped when I ran out. Basicly did very little and I also want to stop heat so Am doing it properly or as best as I can. If i remember i will post some pix, doing the LHF door today.

Oh and do your doors last and use your offcuts. Dynamat isn't a barrier so you just need to cover the resonating metal. The doors are odd shapes and sizes perfect for offcuts

[manic]

You will need more than a long weekend unless you know exactly how much you need and have a cutting list - and depending on how insane you want to go.

I am bang smack in the middle of doing my 110 now - I reckon I have spent over $3k easy. I did just the dynamat on the floors with 1 dynamat extreem megapack and stopped when I ran out. Basicly did very little and I also want to stop heat so Am doing it properly or as best as I can. If i remember i will post some pix, doing the LHF door today.

$3k on soundproofing a defender!? :o .. dynamat and?

[granno]

http://flic.kr/p/eeQGxYThis was most of it.. There was a lot of dynamat, but i keep running out. All the dynaliner I have is 1/2" and is too thick in some areas. So I ordered another 2 x 1/8" 2 x 1/4" and another dynamat pack.. Oh and a roller - bit late for that now but the hours I have spent rubbing every square inch of it with makeshift shapes.. Never again..

That dynapad is not cheap

[460cixy]

Anyone done a before and after with a db meter?

[Dougal]

You will need more than a long weekend unless you know exactly how much you need and have a cutting list - and depending on how insane you want to go.

I am bang smack in the middle of doing my 110 now - I reckon I have spent over $3k easy. I did just the dynamat on the floors with 1 dynamat extreem megapack and stopped when I ran out. Basicly did very little and I also want to stop heat so Am doing it properly or as best as I can. If i remember i will post some pix, doing the LHF door today.

Hang on there. Dynamatt is not a heat insulating material. It is a deadener.


Oh and do your doors last and use your offcuts. Dynamat isn't a barrier so you just need to cover the resonating metal. The doors are odd shapes and sizes perfect for offcuts

You don't need to "cover" anything with dynamatt. Just patches in the middle of panels to kill the resonance. If you've spent $3k on the stuff then you've wasted about $2,700 of that.


The last Landie I did the roof & agree!! Next time I will buy a couple of yoga mats from Big W - they are only $12.00 each - about the area of a camp bed- and soft foam about 10mm thick- wont burn either, a much cheaper option.

Camping mats are EVA foam. This is the best insulation layer to go between your deadened panels and the top cover. But the 10mm matts are quite stiff and will only do flat surfaces. You can buy it down to about 3mm thick from industrial suppliers quite cheaply. 3x 3mm layers will give you better sound and heat insulation than 1x 10mm layer.

Then you want heavy rubber or vinyl over the top.

[flagg]

Hmm the dynamat extreme that I put on my floors and firewall significantly reduced the heat from the engine and exhaust. Prior to fitting on a long drive it felt like you were in front of a slow combustion stove. It was so hot that driving up the blue mountains once at night in winter I had to open a window! (heater disconnected)

Post dynamat (all surfaces - see build thread for pics) there is hardly any heat. I know on paper that isn't what its for but I'm talking real world drop of 15+ degrees.

[Dougal]

Hmm the dynamat extreme that I put on my floors and firewall significantly reduced the heat from the engine and exhaust. Prior to fitting on a long drive it felt like you were in front of a slow combustion stove. It was so hot that driving up the blue mountains once at night in winter I had to open a window! (heater disconnected)

Post dynamat (all surfaces - see build thread for pics) there is hardly any heat. I know on paper that isn't what its for but I'm talking real world drop of 15+ degrees.

A layer of anything (even well conducting gold) will reduce heat through to the cabin.
But using Dynamat for that purpose is like buying goldfish for cat food.

EVA foam is far cheaper and far better. Small patches of a deadener (dynamat if you prefer that brand) and full cover of EVA foam will reduce heat and noise far more for a far lower cost.

[460cixy]

Well I got a rush of blood and down loaded a db app on the iPad any how with the iPad sitting on the pasenger seat at idle 52db a quiet room is about 45 db at 100kph its around 63 to 65 db It peaked at 71 db when I realy stood on it in 4th to merge on to a busy road. The vehicle is a 110 tray back 300tdi with just the factory rubber mats and that vinyl crap around the front of the seat box and a gq patrol centre console

[manic]

Hang on there. Dynamatt is not a heat insulating material. It is a deadener.


Bitumen backed reflective foil (esp on the hot side) is actually very good at keeping heat out. There are cheaper brands than dynamat. Full coverage of bitumen foil is the way to go if you want a very effective block on heat transfer using a thin substrate that will bond for good. You will find it very hard to get the same coverage and bond with camping mat on anything other than floors.

I went around the Med without a headliner and I could burn my fingers to a blister if I touched the inside of the roof after it had sat in the sun. I covered the roof completely with a bitumen backed foil that is thinner than dynamat extreme. Tested in the same conditions I could touch the foil and feel only a vague warmness! Combined with tinted windows, the difference to temperatures inside the car when left in the sun was well worth the £40 it cost for the bitumen sheets (UK)!

[granno]

[QUOTE=Dougal;1902802]Hang on there. Dynamatt is not a heat insulating material. It is a deadener.

Yep.. Tried the dynamat first and found it next to useless for heat. Then I did a lot of research.....

The rest of the money was for dynaliner for the heat. I also purchased dynapad which was the most expensive out of the lot for the floors/firewall, seat box and gearbox cover. I also used the Hoodliner for the bonnet, and re did my acoustic cover for the motor. Instead of carpet I am using a super high density vinyl in the cab area only. That roll alone was about 30-40 kg.

[Dougal]

Bitumen backed reflective foil (esp on the hot side) is actually very good at keeping heat out. There are cheaper brands than dynamat. Full coverage of bitumen foil is the way to go if you want a very effective block on heat transfer using a thin substrate that will bond for good. You will find it very hard to get the same coverage and bond with camping mat on anything other than floors.

I went around the Med without a headliner and I could burn my fingers to a blister if I touched the inside of the roof after it had sat in the sun. I covered the roof completely with a bitumen backed foil that is thinner than dynamat extreme. Tested in the same conditions I could touch the foil and feel only a vague warmness! Combined with tinted windows, the difference to temperatures inside the car when left in the sun was well worth the £40 it cost for the bitumen sheets (UK)!

The thermal conductivity of materials is measured as a K value. Watts x metre. Which is actually w per metre squared per metre thickness.
Lower values are better insulators.
From there, to account for insulating thickness, you divide the K value by the thickness and that gives you watts per square metre (u) of material per degree of heat difference. The often referenced R value is 1/U. Lower U (hence higher R) are better insulators.

K value for bitumen, 0.17. Thermal Conductivity of some common Materials and Gases (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html)
K value for EVA foam, 0.033 Polyethylene and EVA Foams (http://www.foamsales.com.au/information/polyethyleneandevafoams/)

So for equal thickness, EVA foam is ~5 times better.
But we aren't talking equal thickness, we're comparing 1mm of bitumen to at least 6mm of EVA foam.
Bitumen: 0.17/0.001 = 170 watts per degree of heat difference per m^2.
EVA Foam: 0.033/0.006 = 5.5 watts per degree of heat difference per m^2.

As a thermal insulator, 6mm of EVA foam is (170/5.5 =) 31 times better than 1mm of bitumen.

With EVA foam you'd have saved heaps, had a quieter vehicle and a far cooler one.

BTW, you don't want to bond your insulating materials as that greatly reduces the thermal and acoustic properties. Every air gap is worth an R value (1/u value) of ~0.2 for thermal insulation.

[manic]

The thermal conductivity of materials is measured as a K value. Watts x metre. Which is actually w per metre squared per metre thickness.
Lower values are better insulators.
From there, to account for insulating thickness, you divide the K value by the thickness and that gives you watts per square metre (u) of material per degree of heat difference. The often referenced R value is 1/U. Lower U (hence higher R) are better insulators.

K value for bitumen, 0.17. Thermal Conductivity of some common Materials and Gases (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html)
K value for EVA foam, 0.033 Polyethylene and EVA Foams (http://www.foamsales.com.au/information/polyethyleneandevafoams/)

So for equal thickness, EVA foam is ~5 times better.
But we aren't talking equal thickness, we're comparing 1mm of bitumen to at least 6mm of EVA foam.
Bitumen: 0.17/0.001 = 170 watts per degree of heat difference per m^2.
EVA Foam: 0.033/0.006 = 5.5 watts per degree of heat difference per m^2.

As a thermal insulator, 6mm of EVA foam is (170/5.5 =) 31 times better than 1mm of bitumen.

With EVA foam you'd have saved heaps, had a quieter vehicle and a far cooler one.

BTW, you don't want to bond your insulating materials as that greatly reduces the thermal and acoustic properties. Every air gap is worth an R value (1/u value) of ~0.2 for thermal insulation.

I thought the reflective nature of the aluminum skin made the difference :p. If you mange to line a bulkhead with camping mat - well done.

With bitumen backed reflective foil on the outside of the floor/seat.b/firewall it DOES keep the heat out very well.

If you got yourself two upturned boxes and placed them near a fire with a thermometer under each - one covered in foil faced bitumen (say dynamat) and the other with just equal thickness foam - which box is going to heat up quicker?

[granno]

I thought the reflective nature of the aluminum skin made the difference :p. If you mange to line a bulkhead with camping mat - well done.

With bitumen backed reflective foil on the outside of the floor/seat.b/firewall it DOES keep the heat out very well.

If you got yourself two upturned boxes and placed them near a fire with a thermometer under each - one covered in foil faced bitumen (say dynamat) and the other with just equal thickness foam - which box is going to heat up quicker?

I think that dynamat should be installed on the outside of the panels for that exact same reason. Installing it on the inside actually absorbs heat. It will stop the resonating of the material whatever side it is on. If installed on the outside it would aide in reflecting for sure but the air gap is the secret for heat.

[Dougal]

I thought the reflective nature of the aluminum skin made the difference :p. If you mange to line a bulkhead with camping mat - well done.

With bitumen backed reflective foil on the outside of the floor/seat.b/firewall it DOES keep the heat out very well.

If you got yourself two upturned boxes and placed them near a fire with a thermometer under each - one covered in foil faced bitumen (say dynamat) and the other with just equal thickness foam - which box is going to heat up quicker?

For the shiney side to work, it has to face a radiant heat-source (the sun, hot exhaust etc).
So on the top of your roof it'll be nice. On the inside it'll make no difference.

[Loubrey]

Looking at what that stuff costs you might as well go for the bespoke Exmoor Trim rubber matting I installed... (see my post on rubber matting system).

I get just about no heat transfer from the floor, seat box and tunnel (especially on the hand brake lever) and iPhone Db tests shows a 5 Db drop in the Puma's cabin noise since installing it.

Reading what some guys spend on this sound deadening and heat proofing exercises makes the $700 odd delivered price from the UK look like an absolute bargain.

The bitumen backed foil stuff on the doors and roof does sound like an option though...

Cheers,

Lou

[manic]

For the shiney side to work, it has to face a radiant heat-source (the sun, hot exhaust etc).
So on the top of your roof it'll be nice. On the inside it'll make no difference.

Sorry Dougal but this may be a case of a theory disproved in practice. Compared to a bare aluminuim roof panel it does make a significant difference even when inside of roof covered - as stated before. Burnt fingers to touch warm.

I now have a fiberglass headliner with foam clamped between it and the bitumen foil lined roof. Perhaps I would have good results with just foam stuffed under the headliner but at the time I had no headliner just the roofs thin sheet of aluminum above my head.

I got a cheap batch of bitumen/foil and it was well worth covering the entire inside of the roof with the stuff. It took very little time and effort to put up and it reduced heat radiation coming off the roof panels - significantly!

I would do it again, the second road trip to same region at same time of year was much improved with a cool/warm foiled roof compared to the exposed red hot radiator roof I had the year before.

[Dougal]

Sorry Dougal but this may be a case of a theory disproved in practice. Compared to a bare aluminuim roof panel it does make a significant difference even when inside of roof covered - as stated before. Burnt fingers to touch warm.

I have already shown what the insulation value of bitumen is. The insulation value of the foil backing is damn near zero.
Shiney foil is only good for reflecting heat from a radiant source. To do that it has to face the sun or a hot exhaust.

Foil inside does nothing.

The best result would be to copy landrovers safari roof. Put another layer on top with a vented air-gap.

The people who think they disproved theory in practice, normally don't understand the theory.

[Bush65]

Sorry Dougal but this may be a case of a theory disproved in practice. Compared to a bare aluminuim roof panel it does make a significant difference even when inside of roof covered - as stated before. Burnt fingers to touch warm.

...
I'm sorry, you are talking of one experiment about heat conduction to a finger in contact with the under surface of your roof.

You have failed to repeat the same experiment with the other material.

Conduction to your finger at the contact point has little to do with heat radiated from the same under surface into the cabin interior.

So you can't say in any shape or form that you have remotely disproven the theory.

Go and write 100 times on the blackboard, I shall not .......:twisted:

[manic]

I have already shown what the insulation value of bitumen is. The insulation value of the foil backing is damn near zero.
Shiney foil is only good for reflecting heat from a radiant source. To do that it has to face the sun or a hot exhaust.

Foil inside does nothing.

The best result would be to copy landrovers safari roof. Put another layer on top with a vented air-gap.

The people who think they disproved theory in practice, normally don't understand the theory.

I am not disputing the figures on the material or the proven theory/facts on best practices for insulation which you are aware of. I am not saying all you need is some bitumen or that it is the best option for heat insulation.

The thing is though, a bit/alu lined roof is cooler than a bare roof so I cannot agree that lining the inside of the roof with foiled bitumen does 'nothing' to stop heat transfer. That is simply not true. The bitumen has some insulation value as does the reflective nature of the foil even in its least effective orientation.

You may refuse to believe that full coverage of a land rover roof with this stuff makes a difference but I know it does because I have sat for long hours with my head a few inches from exposed roof with and without the lining.

[manic]

So you can't say in any shape or form that you have remotely disproven the theory.


I'm talking about his theory about my roof not being any cooler after I lined it! :p

[Dougal]

The thing is though, a bit/alu lined roof is cooler than a bare roof

****, really?:eek:


so I cannot agree that lining the inside of the roof with foiled bitumen does 'nothing' to stop heat transfer. That is simply not true. The bitumen has some insulation value as does the reflective nature of the foil even in its least effective orientation.

The bit in bold above, No-one said that, You made it up.

The insulation value of a layer of foil in full contact is so small it can be completely ignored.


You may refuse to believe that full coverage of a land rover roof with this stuff makes a difference but I know it does because I have sat for long hours with my head a few inches from exposed roof with and without the lining.

Again, you're making stuff up. I have never claimed or believed it won't make a difference. I have said it is a terrible choice (both cost and effectiveness) for such an application.

[manic]

Foil inside does nothing.



OK well I read you wrong.



Again, you're making stuff up. I have never claimed or believed it won't make a difference. I have said it is a terrible choice (both cost and effectiveness) for such an application.
It appears that we are arguing different angles and there is not actually any real disagreement here. Good show.

[Tombie]

Calm people...

:)

[Judo]

Or as the cool kids are saying these days, "Keep Calm and Rover On".

[strangy]

Hmpf, I thought it was "chill-ax" that the cool folks said. Oh well I have never been cool anyway.... Maybe some foil backed bitumen.....;)

[granno]

Here are a coupla shots my thermo acoustic install progress

[harro]

I have insulated the seat boxes inside and out, the floor and door skins and also the inside of the roof. Also under the second row mat and the cargo area mat, all made a difference not just in noise but also heat.

I used 10mm acoustic foam with adhesive backing and foil on top.
Then covered it with 'mass loaded vinyl', very effective.
Also covered all the joins with adhesive foil flashing.

This has made the aircon actually seem quite adequate which was certainly not the case before all the effort.

However the singe biggest impact on noise reduction was this
http://www.noisekillergb.com/product_details.asp?ItemID=92

Probably another 50% reduction on top of all the other insulating efforts.
Driving with the vents open which is something I usually avoid simply because of the engine noise that comes in with them open is totally different.
virtually no noise at all !!!
The best money I have spent on the comfort factor by far.

I will download the noise measuring app and post results although i wont have a before result.

And a comment on heat reduction.
If you have a cat this is another good reason to get rid it, they act like a radiator on the passenger side giving off a lot of heat.
Get a roll of that fiberglass exhaust bandage and run it from as close to the manifold as you can all the way to the main muffler (if you still have one) this dramatically reduces the amount of radiated heat from the exhaust coming through the floor.
Get a roll that light blue 10mm foam they use for camping it's in BCF for about $10
When doing the inside of the cabin remove the transmission cover (it is a pain to get off) and cut a sheet of the foam with holes for the gearbox top etc. and poke it down around the gearbox and front of the T/case, I managed to get 2 layers in. this also made a big difference to the amount of heat being transferred into the cabin.

Cheers,
Paul

[Blade74]

Awesome photos Granno. Ill be looking at them again before i do mine.
How much quantity of each product did you use?

[manic]

Here are a coupla shots my thermo acoustic install progress

Hardcore! :)

[FeatherWeightDriver]

However the singe biggest impact on noise reduction was this
http://www.noisekillergb.com/product_details.asp?ItemID=92


Hmm that looks interesting - did it impact your engine running temperatures much?

[harro]

Hmm that looks interesting - did it impact your engine running temperatures much?

No difference in running temp.
But a lot quieter:).

Paul.

[Bushman83]

Defender Sound Proofing Upgrade Dynamat Xtreme - YouTube

A vid from my recent soundproofing. You should experience a noticeable difference. I added closed cell foam in the roof too to reduce heat. Noticed a heat reduction there too. :)

[Blade74]

How many metres squared did most people use of dynamat.

Anyone got any opinions of the cheaper stuff online on ebay?

I know you generally get what you pay for but not always.

[Tombie]

Nicely done video!

[Dougal]

How many metres squared did most people use of dynamat.

Anyone got any opinions of the cheaper stuff online on ebay?

I know you generally get what you pay for but not always.

Dynamat etc are not for full-cover. They are deadeners and you only need a patch on each panel to stop it ringing.
Roof flashing tape does the same job for a fraction of the cost.

[Blade74]

Surely Sound deadener must still block a little bit of sound if you have full cover.
I would still look at using a sound may as well on the floors.
It would just be hard to use sound Matt on the ceiling and sided so deadener would surely help?

[Dougal]

Surely Sound deadener must still block a little bit of sound if you have full cover.

Sure. In the same way a file can be used as a hammer.

[Blade74]

Haha nice....
Hmm time to think of how I will control all this sound in my cabin the best way possible..

[Blade74]

Anyone have a rough idea of what quantity to use to do most of the vehicle including flooring, part of firewall,side panels, doors and roof?

How far would 6m squared go?

[Leyland1980]

My wife regularly complains about the noise in our 2004 dual cab defender. The previous owner had dyna matted the interior but I think the key to the noise recently has been the gearbox dying!

We recently did an iPhone app dB test and peaked at 97dB a ~100kph!

I am planning to dyna matt the roof, inside of the gearbox tunnel and the bonnet once I have dropped the box and replaced with the reconnect one that has just arrived from Ashcrofts.

Any guesses on the noise reduction? Place your bets ladies and gentlemen!

[Bushman83]

I used 4 36sq ft Dynamat Extreme bulk packs for covering all the door internals, floor, roof, and firewall, with 2 layers on the footwells and transmission tunnel.

= 144sq ft Used every sheet.


Anyone have a rough idea of what quantity to use to do most of the vehicle including flooring, part of firewall,side panels, doors and roof?

How far would 6m squared go?

[Blade74]

Thanks Bushman.

Hey Leyland I think Harro had a link in page 3 to a supplier of lead matting with a bit of sound absorption.
I looked at the site and they also have one to go around your gearbox.
Harro said the blanket on his motor made a big difference to that.

[Blade74]

Hey Bushman that's 13.4 square metres. That wouldn't have been cheap if it was ridgey didge Dynamat Extreme.

[SimonM]

My wife regularly complains about the noise in our 2004 dual cab defender. The previous owner had dyna matted the interior but I think the key to the noise recently has been the gearbox dying!

We recently did an iPhone app dB test and peaked at 97dB a ~100kph!

I am planning to dyna matt the roof, inside of the gearbox tunnel and the bonnet once I have dropped the box and replaced with the reconnect one that has just arrived from Ashcrofts.

Any guesses on the noise reduction? Place your bets ladies and gentlemen!


My guess is that it will be quite significant - I will say down to 90dB :angel:.

I have just had a new (reco out of a TD5, thanks JC) gearbox put in and the reduction to our cabin noise was huge. I even now question whether i will bother with sound deadening. We can hold a conversation without yelling (though sometimes we may still choose to yell ;)), and I can now hear my daughter in the back seat (and yes that is a good thing :p). Currently I have bare floors, and roof.

[Bushman83]

I bought it off Amazon.com from the US. Works out a lot cheaper than buying locally, even with freight added on top.


Hey Bushman that's 13.4 square metres. That wouldn't have been cheap if it was ridgey didge Dynamat Extreme.

[Blade74]

I've just ordered some wave bar 8kg per square meter which is used on construction sites and in commercial buildings where they want to control sound.
It's $220 for 5 metres by 1.35m.
Will do this on all the flooring surfaces, under seats and as far up the front as I can get it.
Will also add some dynamat to the sides, doors and roof. Will see how it all goes.
Still think I will also get the blanket for the top of the motor as well.

My only question is what do people put over the top of the dynamat on the sides of the back of the vehicle where the silver is visible?
Need something to stick over the top that won't come off.

[Blade74]

http://www.pyroteknc.com/download/wavebar%20cross%20talk%20install.pdf

Will be an extra 52kg in the car if I use the full roll.

[Judo]

8kgs/sqm is pretty heavy indeed. Installed correctly that should provide some pretty decent results!! From the research I've done, 4kgs/sqm seems about average for reasonable automotive insulation with the 3 layers. When I do my 110 I'll be going 4kgs/sqm combined foil, foam, barrier.

If you get your 8kgs/sqm installed, please report back with results!

[Tombie]

8kg/m2... Wow... There goes the fuel bill, acceleration etc :lol:

That's 100kg off your GVM...

[Blade74]

Yeah it will be heavy.
I still have an option to go for the 4kg/sq metre as I haven't picked it up yet.
Just thinking about the thickness and off it will be too thick..
Being that ill only do the base surfaces I reckon I'll only need one roll.

[Blade74]

Well I've done all the dynamating except the doors so far and yes agree with bushman that its 4 bulk dynamat packs at $198 each which i bought from Ryda car audio here in Sydney.
I have enough left for the doors and maybe a couple of spare sheets.
Have done all the rest of the car including the roof.
Wasn't able to get too far up on the firewall on the passenger side due to the A/C box/heater Box.
Overall it has made a big difference to ambient sound inside the car.
Running dynamat up over the transmission tunnel and also cutting out 2 layers of 4kg wave bar to go under the gearbox rubber boot near the gear stick has helped to quieten down general gearbox noise.
Ive also done the under bonnet sound absorber from dynamat which seemed to make a big difference.
Finally have added the engine sound dampening blanket which is made of lead and some kind of fiberglass matting but it hasn't made a huge difference like expected. Will take it for a longer drive and report back.
The engine blanket was originally fitted on the top of the engine and is now located from the rear of the top of the engine down over the bell housing to the top of the gearbox.
Was hoping it would remove some of the Diesel engine chatter when located on top.

Still have to do 4kg wave are in the back and also some marine carpet...

[Dougal]

$800 worth of dynamatt. :confused:

What engine is it you're trying to silence? You may find the injection pump is making about half the racket.

[Blade74]

In general I have been trying to get rid of noise such as road, tyre, rain, engine etc. dynamat has def helped and also the under bonnet foam with foil. The stereo sound better and hands free calls are much easier.
Yes it's a lot of money but I value the car being quieter as I have to make a lot of work phone calls whilst driving.
Previously the sound of a rock being flung up by a rear tyre under the guard was like a cracking noise of a large rock hitting the windscreen which scared the crap out of you.
Now the issue is gone.

So the general chattering noise under the bonnet tends to be injector pump and not the injectors themselves???

[Blade74]

It's a TD5.

[Dougal]

In general I have been trying to get rid of noise such as road, tyre, rain, engine etc. dynamat has def helped and also the under bonnet foam with foil. The stereo sound better and hands free calls are much easier.
Yes it's a lot of money but I value the car being quieter as I have to make a lot of work phone calls whilst driving.
Previously the sound of a rock being flung up by a rear tyre under the guard was like a cracking noise of a large rock hitting the windscreen which scared the crap out of you.
Now the issue is gone.

My point was, dynamatt is a poor choice for that purpose. Dynamatt is a deadener, you attach a piece to each buzzing panel to damp out the vibrations. Then you use an insulating layer (closed cell EVA foam, felt etc) to actually stop the noise.
EVA foam is a lot cheaper, a far better noise blocker and a better thermal insulator than dynamatt. The main benefactors from full-cover dynamatt are those selling it.


So the general chattering noise under the bonnet tends to be injector pump and not the injectors themselves???

IN general yeah about 50% of the noise can be the injection pump. But not really on the TD5 as each injector is built into the head.

[Blade74]

I understand its a deadener.... Hence I also have wave bar which blocks noise...
But to be truthful dynamat has worked well so far.

I understand in sound there are the following.
Deadeners
Blockers
Absorbers
Diffusers

Foam is more an absorber...

The item I have under the bonnet is dynamat hood liner which is an absorber.

The Wave Bar which will go over the dynamat is used to block noise transfer in commercial applications all the time.

[Dougal]

I understand its a deadener.... Hence I also have wave bar which blocks noise...
But to be truthful dynamat has worked well so far.

I understand in sound there are the following.
Deadeners
Blockers
Absorbers
Diffusers

Foam is more an absorber...

The item I have under the bonnet is dynamat hood liner which is an absorber.

The Wave Bar which will go over the dynamat is used to block noise transfer in commercial applications all the time.

Closed cell foam is a blocker as well. Much of the absorption comes from the air gap between the deadened panels, the foam and the foam and top covers.

If you want to cover everything in deadener, use cheaper roof flashing tape which does exactly the same job. It is ludicrous to use $800 of dynamatt for such a job.

[bapo]

Dougal, could you please give us an example of how dynamat should be used in a defender.
What i mean is where the best places would be to put it, the typical required size of the patch to achieve deadening, best places on desired panels to put the patches....

From reading what you've posted so far i'm thinking the following for my 90

A couple of 30cmx30cm patches on the rear floor under the rubber mats

The same on the roof under the headliner, 2 patches, then some EVA foam between the headliner and roof

One patch on each of the foot wells

Two strips on the sides of the seat boxes

Any other ideas welcome..... :)

[Judo]

It sounds like you have the right idea. If you're using Dynamat as a deadener it should be applied to thin panels where the surface area is large between solid points (folds, mounting, welds, etc). You're trying to stop those panels from vibrating like a Rolf Harris style wobble board. You can significantly reduce the wobble board effect without making the whole panel thicker. Just add weight to the centre (like a piece of dynamat).

That's for a sound deadener at least. Heat and other sound reduction layers (absorb and barrier) have different theories. For example:

Heat = foil.
Absorb = foam.
Barrier = heavy vinyl.

[Dougal]

Dougal, could you please give us an example of how dynamat should be used in a defender.
What i mean is where the best places would be to put it, the typical required size of the patch to achieve deadening, best places on desired panels to put the patches....

From reading what you've posted so far i'm thinking the following for my 90

A couple of 30cmx30cm patches on the rear floor under the rubber mats

The same on the roof under the headliner, 2 patches, then some EVA foam between the headliner and roof

One patch on each of the foot wells

Two strips on the sides of the seat boxes

Any other ideas welcome..... :)

I don't have a defender, but you're on the right track as Judo said. Target the biggest and flattest panels first (I'd expect those to be doors, roof and floors). Use a convenient sized patch in the middle of each panel. The idea is to stop the panels buzzing and ringing. You will hear the difference tapping a panel from before to after.

You'll get the best results from covering everything in EVA foam. More thinner layers are better than fewer thicker layers for both installation flexibility and noise reduction.

[Tikka7mm08]

I picked up spray on product (K-S?) at clearance price of $10. Nothing to lose so sprayed it on the underside of Puma 90's tray, the wheel arches. It actually worked, driving in rain is a lot quieter. Wouldn't have believed it unless I tried it. It's like a black rubbery foam layer so will eventually wear off.

[Deefa]

I am wondering if sound proofing the bonnet is a good idea, It may bounce the sound back down into the engine bay and inside via the firewall?

[flagg]

Theoretically there will be some reflecting but with the right material it will be a significant nett gain.

[Judo]

flagg has it. In this case sound proofing with the correct material isn't about bouncing the sound away, it's about absorbing it.

[Deefa]

So the foam with the silver front may bounce it back more than just the plain foam which will absorb the noise.

Also interested in the engine blankets from the previous post. Does anyone know how much they cost and what freight they charge. I sent them an enquiry but did not get a response. (seems to be common from these UK suppliers as I have emailed about a few products and they don't reply. )

[Dougal]

It will also stop the bonnet acting like a drum-skin.

[Ranga]

I don't have a defender, but you're on the right track as Judo said. Target the biggest and flattest panels first (I'd expect those to be doors, roof and floors). Use a convenient sized patch in the middle of each panel. The idea is to stop the panels buzzing and ringing. You will hear the difference tapping a panel from before to after.

You'll get the best results from covering everything in EVA foam. More thinner layers are better than fewer thicker layers for both installation flexibility and noise reduction.

Hi Dougal,
Thought I might revive this thread.

Can you provide a link to the roof flashing tape you mention, so I don't get the wrong one?

Also, I notice you suggest 3 layers of 3mm EVA. How much difference would it be for a layer of 10mm EVA. I'm thinking 10mm would be quicker and easier to install. A link to a cheap supplier would again be appreciated.

Finally, I have the usual issue with water ingress. In the past, this seems to hang around under the genuine mats (thick rubber with foam underneath), Which I reckon would definitely lead to rust appearing in the footwell. Using EVA foam, I imagine I'd still have the same issue, thus needing to remove them regularly to dry the water out. Any suggestions (other than fixing the leaks, which is no mean feat on a Defender!) for removing/preventing the water from accumulating under the foam?

[jimr1]

There has been a lot on this post about sound proofing , I would like to tell you what I did . My roof lining was sagging on my td5 , so I took It to see whether It was worth trying to fix or not . Anyway while the lining was out my 110 was so much nosier plus It got blooding hot inside as well . I got hold of some filter medium . This is the stuff they use in spray booths , It as to be changed on a regular basis . So I gave It a wash ,'' warm water and soap powder " I cut It to size just the same as the other guy's , used liquid nails to hold It in place , job done . I couldn't believe the difference It made , to both temperature , and sound . I then fixed up the roof lining put that back , and must say I was very pleased . The cost two tubes of liquid nails , and a few hours of my time . Cheers Jim

[VladTepes]

Ranga before you buy any stuff - I want some too so maybe we can get it a bit cheaper buying more...

My #1 concern is that I don't want ANY water absorbing material. At all.

I like roamingtheoutback's video on roof insulation but I just need to be sure what actual products to best use that meet my WATERPROOF requirements.

The previous owner of my ute had some sort of material which held water and had led to much more significant rust than I'd thought. I don'd care to repeat that.

[Dave_S]

I'm looking at doing this too and have the same concern about moisture retention. I plan to cut down on water ingress by re-sealing the roof (probably including removing it entirely to replace seals between the roof and body), replacing the windscreen seal (and fixing any rust I find under it) and replacing the door seals. I might even try to get the doors to fit properly - that would be a first :D

I think that waterproof materials would still be a must in footwells, floors, compartments and anywhere that water might pool. For things like under bonnet insulation I'm not so concerned, as the heat under there should dry things pretty quickly.

There are some good threads on here about sound deadening, but it's a lot to wade through and some advice contradicts other advice. I'd like to do the job on a reasonable budget, as with an Isuzu engine and very noisy tyres no amount of money is going to make it quiet.

One thing I want to do is stop the rear sliding windows rattling. I would like a set of gullwing windows but really can't afford them. As I'm taking the roof off, I might look at replacing the panels the windows fit into with a set I have from a series III wagon. They look like they will fit and the windows sit in bailey channel. If I replace the old bailey channels the windows should be fairly rattle free. The panels aren't the right colour, but the vehicle looks like an old chicken shed anyway.

[Bearman]

I'm looking at doing this too and have the same concern about moisture retention. I plan to cut down on water ingress by re-sealing the roof (probably including removing it entirely to replace seals between the roof and body), replacing the windscreen seal (and fixing any rust I find under it) and replacing the door seals. I might even try to get the doors to fit properly - that would be a first :D

I think that waterproof materials would still be a must in footwells, floors, compartments and anywhere that water might pool. For things like under bonnet insulation I'm not so concerned, as the heat under there should dry things pretty quickly.

There are some good threads on here about sound deadening, but it's a lot to wade through and some advice contradicts other advice. I'd like to do the job on a reasonable budget, as with an Isuzu engine and very noisy tyres no amount of money is going to make it quiet.

One thing I want to do is stop the rear sliding windows rattling. I would like a set of gullwing windows but really can't afford them. As I'm taking the roof off, I might look at replacing the panels the windows fit into with a set I have from a series III wagon. They look like they will fit and the windows sit in bailey channel. If I replace the old bailey channels the windows should be fairly rattle free. The panels aren't the right colour, but the vehicle looks like an old chicken shed anyway.



Dave, the cheapest/easiest way to stop the sliding window rattle is to cut a strip of foam about 20mm square and push it into the gap where the 2 windows overlap. You will find that it is near invisible as it sits behind the edge frame. The rattle usually comes from this area where the rubber wiper seal has shrunk/perished.

[Dave_S]

Dave, the cheapest/easiest way to stop the sliding window rattle is to cut a strip of foam about 20mm square and push it into the gap where the 2 windows overlap. You will find that it is near invisible as it sits behind the edge frame. The rattle usually comes from this area where the rubber wiper seal has shrunk/perished.

Thanks Brian. I had thought of doing something similar, but we are planning a bit of a trip and a few modifications that will require being able to open and close the windows regularly. Also, the lock on one of the windows is broken so I have to sort that out as well.

I think we need to have a good look at the whole vehicle and work out a plan. From the reading I've done so far, it looks like you have to strip a 110 down to a fair degree to do a proper job of sound deadening.

[Bearman]

You could glue the foam to one window. That way you could still open/close it without dislodging the foam. Dont know how you go getting new channels or lock assemblies. Going to go the insulation with the 6X6 but still haven't decided which one to use - like you I am concerned about trapping water underneath it.

[jabber]

If you'd like to keep the sliders, check out Garrison Outfitters. They sell better than stock replacement window rubbers and have a YouTube video showing how.

With respect to dynamat.... Check out something similar to "peel-n-seal", roof flashing material (i purchased it through Amazon). It's much cheaper, and pretty much the same; foil backed self adhesive. I got the largest roll and did my whole deefer.