Defender 90 TD5 2003 Suspension raise 2"

[Blade74]

Hello All,

I'm looking at buying some Koni Raid Shocks and also some King springs to raise my D90 roughly 2".
I dont mind if it ends up a little under 2 ".
I've ordered the Koni Raid Shocks already but they haven't shipped yet due to waiting on a price for shipping.
The fronts are: Koni Heavy Track Raid 90-5374 0-50mm lift
The Rears are: Koni Heavy Track Raid 90-5375 0-40mm lift

I can change the rears to :Koni Heavy Track Raid 90-5401 40-60mm lift in the next few days prior to shipping at the same price.

Looking at putting the following springs in the front and rear.
The Front: King Springs KRFR-03 (raised but not HD)
The Rear: King Springs KLRR-05 (raised but not HD)

My car doesnt ever tow more than a trailer with a few motorbike and i never load it up heavily with a lot of gear.

Should i go for the more raised rear shock?

Does anyone think ill have issues with Prop shafts/joints etc if i leave them standard for now.
Not sure if the D90 already has bigger angles on them due to being SWB.

Would love to hear peoples comments!

Cheers
:BigThumb::BigThumb:

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Those 90 series shock are too short if you go higher than standard, even the ones they quote are for a +40-60mm lift.

From memory even the longer ones only give you 5mm of travel!!!!!!

I raised this with them some time ago and they were not interested! Shame really as I wanted a set of the 90 series for the 110.

The 80 series are long enough and would more than likely be fine for your needs.

King springs are excellent.

Sent using Forum Runner

[Yorkshire_Jon]

I'll comment more when I get back to a puter:)

Sent using Forum Runner

[Ancient Mariner]

Those 90 series shock are too short if you go higher than standard, even the ones they quote are for a +40-60mm lift.

From memory even the longer ones only give you 5mm of travel!!!!!!

I raised this with them some time ago and they were not interested! Shame really as I wanted a set of the 90 series for the 110.

The 80 series are long enough and would more than likely be fine for your needs.

King springs are excellent.

Sent using Forum Runner
5 mm not much is it

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Ok, so Im working from memory here... Its been 4 years since I sold stuff for a 90.

1. You are right in thinking you do NOT want the HD King Springs - in a usually empty they are WAY to hard.
2. In a usually empty 90 you do NOT want the 90 series Koni's these to are WAY to hard and combined you will not have any suspension or axle flex!
3.KRFR-03 or KRRR-02 are a good choice for the front - they are about the same but the 02's are a tad taller and can be used to level the normally lower front end up a bit if vehicles are normally empty.
4. Check the diameter of the rear springs. From memory the coil diameters on a 90 are smaller than on a 110, therefore the KLRR-05's will have too big a diameter. Someone else can come in and confirm this. If my memory is failing me and the 90 & 110 rear springs are the same diameter then the KLRR-05 are the ones to get.
5. The rear propshaft will be fine with KLRR-05's
6. Trailing arm bushes at the chassis end will flog out A LITTLE sooner than with standard height springs, but this really isnt a problem. The cure is cranked rear trailing arms, but it really is an expense that isnt necessary.
7. Steering Geometry - There are several ways of overcoming the castor issue.
7a. Front propshaft. This should be changed for a double-cardon prop (not the disco unit and changed transfer flange if you want it to last). Ive always found the new prop to be the best solution (Juddy on here can sort you out with an excellent unit from the UK)
7b. Front Radius arms - Ideally you would change these for either +3 or +6 degree ones. You can save cash by removing your existing bushes and replacing with castor corrected ones, or by slotting your swivels. My money always swaps the arms for +3 or +6.

So now, having shot your plans to bits :) what dampers would I suggest... Difficult choice as there are hundreds to choose from. If money isnt so much of an issue, Koni 80's, on a bit more of a budget but always had very good results and customer feedback and work well with the King Springs, Tough Dog Foam Cells (not the adjustable version). Bilstein and OME are also worth a look.

Make sure your dampers will compress to the same length as the ones that come off and extend approx 40-50mm longer than the standard ones.

hth
Jon

[Blade74]

Is the 80 series the Heavy Track??
I bought them through paddock spares and the Heavy track doesn't have an option for higher raised models.

It's a lot of $$$ so want to make sure I get it right.

So you are referring to 5mm extra drop than normal for the raised rear version....
You wouldn't think Koni would get it so wrong and let it go so long...

[jboot51]

Don't hold your breath waiting for paddocks,
this was their reply 04/02/2013.


Hello
We are unable to send high pressure gas shocks airmail , due to civil aviation safety laws
--
Regards,

Nichola
Customer Service

[Blade74]

You cursed me jboot.....

Hello
regarding your order ref 146###, we are unable to send any gas items by airmail as they are filled with high pressure gasses and we have no other means of sending these items.
What would you like to do?
Shall I refund your order?
--
Regards,

Nichola
Customer Service

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Is the 80 series the Heavy Track??
I bought them through paddock spares and the Heavy track doesn't have an option for higher raised models.

It's a lot of $$$ so want to make sure I get it right.

So you are referring to 5mm extra drop than normal for the raised rear version....
You wouldn't think Koni would get it so wrong and let it go so long...

90 series = RAIDs
88 Series = Heavy Track

Suggest you speak to either TopPerformance in Melbourne or wholesale suspension in Sydney - Both resell Koni's and know there stuff. Cant guarentee they know much about fitment to Defenders though!!

Re the 5mm...
Take an almost empty 110 with KLRR-05 Fitted. Extend a +40-60mm 90 series Koni and fully extent all but 5mm, then fit! Whilst it fits... It doesnt fit!

[Blade74]

Thanks Yorkshire John. I'll call them later this week.
So is there any other recommended shocks with model numbers.
I want either Koni or Bilstien. Seem to favour Konis.
Is there a certain model Heavy Track recommended to allow the extra travel? Or billy number?

Hmmm now I have to check the rear spring diameter to see if they are different.

[Blade74]

Hey Jon,
What model koni 80 would suit the springs?

Also does the steering/castor angle just need adjusting or do I need to buy something then adjust? Eg adjustable pan hard rods

I will get the new front radius arms and hunt down Judy for a new prop shaft.

This project might be a little bigger than first thought.

I might see if defender bits will send koni shocks to Aus...

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Hey Jon,
What model koni 80 would suit the springs?

Also does the steering/castor angle just need adjusting or do I need to buy something then adjust? Eg adjustable pan hard rods

I will get the new front radius arms and hunt down Judy for a new prop shaft.

This project might be a little bigger than first thought.

I might see if defender bits will send koni shocks to Aus...

To raise properly is always bigger than people first think!

I think there are only 2 models of 80 Series that will fit a Defender, standard height and for a 40-60mm lift. You want the longer ones.

When you replace the standard radius arms with castor corrected ones (+3 or +6 degree ones - If the car is always empty, I might err towards the +6's), this will fix the castor / steering geometry issues that are generated by lifting. You will also need some new bushes to go in the new radius arm. GENUINE rubber (not el-cheapo), or SuperPro - choice is yours.

The propshaft needs replacing so that it doesnt bind in the yokes when you go off-road. Tip re prop-shaft maintenance, dont forget to grease the double cardon joint! It has an almost invisible grease point and is not a standard grease nipple like on the UJs, meaning you'll probably need to get a needle adapter for your grease gun - cheap enough off ebay.

You wont need an adjustable panhard rod.

Mention Bailey Morris to Juddy re propshaft.

Jon

[Loubrey]

If my memory is failing me and the 90 & 110 rear springs are the same diameter then the KLRR-05 are the ones to get.

hth
Jon

Nothing wrong with your memory Jon...:D

90's have significantly smaller diameter coils at the back compared to a 110. They are also shorter and the diameter of the steel in the coil is less as well.

Cheers,

Lou

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Nothing wrong with your memory Jon...:D

90's have significantly smaller diameter coils at the back compared to a 110. They are also shorter and the diameter of the steel in the coil is less as well.

Cheers,

Lou

Thanks Lou, I thought so, but wasn't 100% sure.

KRRS-02 or KRRR-02 for the rear then. Cant confirm which one really, its a bit of suck it and see when they are on the vehicle and also depends on what goes on the front and if a bar/winch/steel rope etc is hung over the front end.

Obviously the aim is to get the car level, or ever so slightly raised at the back when empty.

hth
J

[isuzutoo-eh]

Do some research on the brand of prop shaft you get, one UK company has been selling shafts not rated for on-road use, some members have reported critical problems with them and they fob it off as being used outside design intention, do a forum search for Bailey Morris.
After reading of failures and grief over getting replacements, I bought a pair of Tom Woods shafts from the USA.

[Blade74]

Thanks for all the comments guys.
Since Paddock spares can't deliver I am now reconsidering what to do.
I called wholesale suspension here in Sydney and the guy on the phone was very helpful.
He rung Koni Australia and also king springs to confirm things for the 2" raise.

Koni came back and said you had to use the Raid series and they only bring in the standard height heavy tracks after having lots of issues in the past with springs falling out on defenders and other issues.

He gave me a height off a previous raise of a 90 with the springs and wanted me to measure my current height so we could work out what raise that may equate to.

I'm now starting to think I may just keep the car standard height to eliminate all the mods and possible issues.
Don't know if I'll do enough hard core 4wding to need the lift.

I may just buy the heavy tracks in standard height for now with the original springs and then think about if the upgrade to king spring standard height is worth the upgrade.

Decisions decisions...

[Blade74]

So I got told that the last car raised was 550mm from the centre of the wheel to the bottom of flared guard.

I measured mine and this is what I got.

Front Right and Rear Right 505mm
Front Left and Rear Left 500mm

I looked at the springs and it appears the rear diameter is approximately 150mm and the front I couldn't measure easily as the shock is in the way but id say approx. 155mm.

The springs are as follows so I might look up a spring colour conversion table.
FR - Green and Blue
FL - Yellow and Blue
BR - Green, Yellow and Red
BL - Green, Yellow and White

The height off the ground to bottom edge of guard is as follows:
FR - 883mm
FL - 875mm
BR - 889mm
BL - 880mm.

I haven't checked my tire pressures yet to see if that is adding any variation.

So I will ponder the two alternatives of raising it or not and if I don't then Koni Heavy track standard heights.

Is it worth changing to King Spring Standard height(non HD springs)? Will I notice a big difference?

[redline]

Blade, did you ever go ahead with the Koni Raids?

I am in a similar predicament with a Puma 110, wanting to fit:
Front Coils - King # KRFR-03 (+30mm)
Rear Coils - King # KLRR-05 (+30mm)
Front Shock - KONI # 90-5374 SP1 (0 to +50mm lift)
Rear Shock - KONI # 90-5375 SP1 (0 to +40mm lift)

Apparently its quite a common combination, but I can't quite square it with the fact that the shock travel seem to be shorter than stock? :confused:

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Blade, did you ever go ahead with the Koni Raids?

I am in a similar predicament with a Puma 110, wanting to fit:
Front Coils - King # KRFR-03 (+30mm)
Rear Coils - King # KLRR-05 (+30mm)
Front Shock - KONI # 90-5374 SP1 (0 to +50mm lift)
Rear Shock - KONI # 90-5375 SP1 (0 to +40mm lift)

Apparently its quite a common combination, but I can't quite square it with the fact that the shock travel seem to be shorter than stock? :confused:

Id be very interested in anyone that has done this. Its the exact same combination I wanted to use but I too was put off by the published Koni Lengths.

[Pickles2]

Ok, so Im working from memory here... Its been 4 years since I sold stuff for a 90.

1. You are right in thinking you do NOT want the HD King Springs - in a usually empty they are WAY to hard.
2. In a usually empty 90 you do NOT want the 90 series Koni's these to are WAY to hard and combined you will not have any suspension or axle flex!
3.KRFR-03 or KRRR-02 are a good choice for the front - they are about the same but the 02's are a tad taller and can be used to level the normally lower front end up a bit if vehicles are normally empty.
4. Check the diameter of the rear springs. From memory the coil diameters on a 90 are smaller than on a 110, therefore the KLRR-05's will have too big a diameter. Someone else can come in and confirm this. If my memory is failing me and the 90 & 110 rear springs are the same diameter then the KLRR-05 are the ones to get.
5. The rear propshaft will be fine with KLRR-05's
6. Trailing arm bushes at the chassis end will flog out A LITTLE sooner than with standard height springs, but this really isnt a problem. The cure is cranked rear trailing arms, but it really is an expense that isnt necessary.
7. Steering Geometry - There are several ways of overcoming the castor issue.
7a. Front propshaft. This should be changed for a double-cardon prop (not the disco unit and changed transfer flange if you want it to last). Ive always found the new prop to be the best solution (Juddy on here can sort you out with an excellent unit from the UK)
7b. Front Radius arms - Ideally you would change these for either +3 or +6 degree ones. You can save cash by removing your existing bushes and replacing with castor corrected ones, or by slotting your swivels. My money always swaps the arms for +3 or +6.

So now, having shot your plans to bits :) what dampers would I suggest... Difficult choice as there are hundreds to choose from. If money isnt so much of an issue, Koni 80's, on a bit more of a budget but always had very good results and customer feedback and work well with the King Springs, Tough Dog Foam Cells (not the adjustable version). Bilstein and OME are also worth a look.

Make sure your dampers will compress to the same length as the ones that come off and extend approx 40-50mm longer than the standard ones.

hth
Jon
What an excellent post Jon. Some really solid info there.
Pickles.

[redline]

Jon,

I will let you know next week!

I went ahead and ordered all the parts - picking them up tomorrow. A bit of a leap of faith, as on paper it doesn't "work" but its a popular set-up here, with no apparent issues....

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Thanks Redline, great.

I'm particularly interested to have the minimum and maximum lengths of the Koni's confirmed, along with the actual part numbers of the setup you end up with. Hopefully then others can use this thread as the definitive "yes or no" to this on going question!

Cheers
J

[MLD]

Jon, there was a thread started covering all things Koni shocks with the intent to be a single source of info. If you collect info it would be a nice touch to expand on that existing thread.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/modified-zone/169866-koni-shock-absorbers-9.html

As an aside, does the Koni 90 series foul on the front coil like the Terra Firma and Tough Dog big bore shocks? Something you might want to confirm before ordering.

MLD

[Devomorris]

I had koni and king spring combo on my 90 and it was awesome. Standard length heavy track adjustables ( can't find series on them). Krrs 04 king rear springs. Car not out side so can't check front. Rear didn't appear to give a lift so used a 2 inch spacer. Didn't measure travel but was pretty descent and the handling was brilliant. As one does, I decided that I needed way more travel so went for terra firma 5 inch extended shocks with cranked rear arms and dislocating cones.........wish I hadn't. Not a patch on the konis. A rear diff lock would have worked much better. My range rover classic is a happy chappy riding on the konis. The 90 suspension set up is the same as disco 1s and range rover classics.....all interchangeable. The front end I've left alone at the moment. Seems to drive quite nicely without any caster corrections. From my research, the general consensus with anything up to 2 inch was try first, then correct if necessary. Hope this helps. Oh, one last thing, had an ome set up on my previous 90, about a 1 1/2 inch lift.....also very good.

[Blade74]

I ended up installing Koni Heavy Track shocks all round. Didn't go with Raids as per the warnings of being too heavy duty. I have left the springs standard for now. Although I may change in the future. Maybe the rears to start with as the ride from the rear with little to no weight is average with the original springs. Been very happy with the shocks so far. Would love to see how your setup goes.